22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Eternally Grateful]

But, this isn't a matter of one side (Premils) saying things prophesied will happen with the other side (Amils) saying they won't happen. No. This is a matter of the two sides, Amils and Premils, disagreeing on what is figurative/symbolic and what is literal. The figurative/symbolic text describes things that will actually happen, but they just aren't described in a literal way.

I disagree.

One is claiming that the event will happen.

the other is as much as saying it represents a spiritual truth, it is not a literal event.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes there is symbolism, but God defines the symbols in His Word. We havew no need for special revelations, warm fuzzies, visions, dreams or suppossed teachers who got on the hot line with god.

But in all prophecies there is also lots of literalism

Following the golden rule of Bible understanding has never led me down a wrong path.

So, was Paul wrong that we need spiritual discernment to understand God's word then? It's just all spelled out for us as if we are just little children who need to be spoon fed?

1 Corinthians 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. 10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. 11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. 12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. 16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? but we have the mind of Christ.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I disagree.

One is claiming that the event will happen.

the other is as much as saying it represents a spiritual truth, it is not a literal event.

You're saying spiritual things can't be literal? What you're really saying is one side sometimes sees things as having a spiritual reality while the other sees them as having a physical reality. Either way, they are real, literal events, though. Just because something is spiritual, such as what happened on the day of Pentecost, doesn't make it non-literal.

Also, the foundation of Amil doctrine is based on straightforward, literal passages such as Matthew 28:18, Acts 17:30-31, John 5:28-29 and 2 Peter 3:10-12, so it's not a fair characterization of Amil to say that we just spiritualize everything.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Then it is meaningless. and we can make it say anything we want. with no means ot proving who is right.

And I disagree, it is all literal. It may use symbols to represent literal events. but we need to determine what literal event will take place.

Good grief, man. No one is claiming that the Bible prophecies aren't talking about actual events when symbolism is used.

how much symbolism in daniels prophecy literally came true? Daniel spoke of the head of Gold then told the king he was that head.

All of it. No one is saying otherwise. Stop wasting your time arguing with a straw man. It doesn't make you look good when you have to resort to misrepresenting Amils like this.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Isn't this idea of Satan still running around on his chain like having one over on God? The angel chains Satan, but it doesn't really stop him.

You seem to think God's binding is ineffective, that Satan is too wispy to put on a real chain, he's more like a mob boss in Rikers.

That is not at all what he was saying and not at all what Amils believe.

Please answer this question. What was Satan able to do in the world in Old Testament times that he has not been able to do (at least not to the same extent) in New Testament times? I'll give you a hint. Look at passages like Hebrews 2:14-15, 1 John 3:8, Acts 26:16-18 and James 4:7.

 

[Marty fox]

@Marty fox I corrected my quoting error. please forgive me


It says more than this my friend.

21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.


ww1 and ww2 made what happened in ad 70 look like a walk in the park. but not even during those two wars was the ability to kill all life possible.

remember, Jesus said no flesh would survive. flesh is not just people. it is any living breathing thing that has flesh




The great tribulation is to be limited in time. after the Abomination of desolation occures. the time is limited in years. Daniel mentioned 3.5 years. not 2000 years.

Your mixing up great tribulations as there are many (on the world, on Israel ) but only one "The great tribulation" mentioned in Revelation 7:14 which is world wide and on the church.

What made the great tribulation of Israel in 70AD the worst that ever will be isn't just about carnage its that the Jews would realize that their God had turned His back on them and allowed their temple to be destroyed. That would of been the worst thing to ever of happened to them even worst than death and what made it more painful is that many Jews would of remembered . Many of them would of also remembered Jesus words below.

Luke 19:41-44
41 As he approached Jerusalem and saw the city, he wept over it 42 and said, “If you, even you, had only known on this day what would bring you peace—but now it is hidden from your eyes. 43 The days will come upon you when your enemies will build an embankment against you and encircle you and hem you in on every side. 44 They will dash you to the ground, you and the children within your walls. They will not leave one stone on another, because you did not recognize the time of God’s coming to you.”

Yes they would of realized that this happened because they rejected and killed their Messiah and God. Nothing could ever be worse than that.

 

[WPM]

1. We don't know what kind of binding happens to Satan. It could be supernatural chains for all we know!
2. He will be abyssed and bound by something for 1,000 years- that is what god said, Why should I believe you over the bible.
3. I agree it doesn't mean He can't make some movements. what kind and how many- god decided was none of our business.
4. Satan will not be able to decieve people on earth! what He does in teh abyss- it doesn't say and anyone who thinks they know is just guessing.

There is one literal first resurrection where Christ defeated the grave. The Bible makes it clear that Christ is "the first resurrection" (Acts 26:23 and Revelation 20:6), "the firstborn from the dead" (Colossians 1:18), "the firstfruits of them that slept" (1 Corinthians 15:20), "first begotten of the dead" (Revelation 1:5).

Since this, Revelation 20 describes the defeat and binding (or curtailment) of Satan for the expressed purpose of the Gospel invading the nations and removing the deception that blinded the Gentiles before Christ's first resurrection. When Satan was bound through the life, death and resurrection of Jesus Christ then the kingdom of darkness was bound (including the beast and every demon). 2 Peter 2:4, Jude v 6, Revelation 9 and Revelation 20 all prove the whole demonic realm is currently restrained from stopping the free-flow of the Gospel. The bruising of the head of the beast (Revelation 13:3, 13:12 and 13:14) correlates with the bruising of the head of Satan 2,000 years ago through the earthly ministry of Christ (Genesis 3:15). They correspond with the spiritual binding imprisoning of Satan during the millennial period. These are figurative metaphors describing the impairment of the kingdom of darkness 2000 years ago.

Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.

 

[marks]

That is not at all what he was saying and not at all what Amils believe.

• The binding of Satan is spiritual. Satan is not human and physical. He is a spirit. A spirit cannot be held by physical restraints. What is more, he is not in a physical prison or is he restrained by metal chains.

• The binding does not suggest our enemy must be motionless or does it describe inactivity. Prisoners have movement in a prison albeit in a limited capacity, under strict rules and within controlled confines.

• Revelation 20 does not suggest that the devil is unable to inflict harm on anyone while bound. Everyone knows that a prisoner can perpetrate all types of crimes within the prison precincts.

Much love!

 

[WPM]

I have not avoided anything

You on the other hand have avoided looking at the actual passahe of scriptire we are supposed to be discussing



actually you have nothing of value. You can;t look at the passage and prove your point. You have to go everywhere else in an attempt to prove your right.

If you were right. you could EASILY prove it in the passage. the fact you refuse to look at the passage in question is more than enough proof to show me you do not understand the passage at all. and are afraid to look it it

Instead of making wild unsubstantiated claims, please tell me what Scripture /argument I have not addressed with you.

 

[marks]

Isaiah 2:2-4 KJV
2) And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3) And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4) And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

This is under Jesus' rule.

Not nations perpetually at war with each other.

Zechariah 14:16-19 KJV
16) And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17) And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18) And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19) This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Not the nations of the earth shaking their collective fist at the heavens.

Isaiah 11:4-9 KJV
4) But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.
5) And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.
6) The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
7) And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
8) And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.
9) They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

This does not describe the present day.

Much love!

 

[marks]

wild unsubstantiated claims

I don't know when I've seen more "loaded language" in one collection than on this thread.

Much love!

 

[WPM]

Show me all the verses that says Jesus is reigning on earth now like the JW's teach.

LOL. The JWs, Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists are all Premil. Think about that. Along with Dispensationalism/Pretrib, this all was invented in the middle of the 18th century as a notable kick-back to the prevailing truth of God.

Jesus is king- but He has not begun His reign yet. It begfins when He returns! It ends after He vanquishes death and then turns the Kingdom back to His father as Paul wrote in 1` Cor. 15

I'm afraid your teachers have taught you wrong.

Repeated Scripture shows that Christ king now. He is reigning in majesty upon high now! He is risen from the dead and He is Lord. All power and authority belongs to Him now. Your false teaching causes you to dethrone Christ from His sovereign place reigning over His enemies today. You ducked around the Scripture I presented that exposes your BIG-DEVIL and small-jesus theology. You theology forces Christ to abdicate His throne at the right hand of majesty on high. Your teachers have taught you wrong! Israel’s king has already come, and introduced His heavenly kingdom.

While you, your fellow Premils and the Pharisees did not accept Christ as Christ, many did and do today. Amongst them are most Amils. While Jesus did not come and meet the religious Jews faulty expectation of a physical territorial kingdom where the Messiah would reign over physical Israel and subjugate the Gentile nations. He did come as a spiritual king reigning over a spiritual kingdom.

Listen to how God revealed Christ to the wisemen in Matthew 2:1-2: “behold, there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.”

Here you have it! The sacred text testifies to the fact that Jesus Christ was “born King of the Jews.”

John 1:47-49: “Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile! … Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.”

As the Lord’s ministry came to an end on earth we see Him entering into Jerusalem triumphant on a donkey. He received the adoration of the people.

Listen to what they were shouting on Palm Sunday. The people declared in John 12:12-15: “Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord. And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written, Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass’s colt.”

Before Jesus death in John 18:36 Jesus told Pilate: “My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”

In the next verse, Pilate asked Jesus: “Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.”

While Jesus did not come and meet the religious Jews faulty expectation of a physical territorial kingdom where the Messiah would reign over physical Israel and subjugate the Gentile nations. He did come as a spiritual king reigning over a spiritual kingdom.

Israel’s king had come, and introduced His heavenly kingdom to this earth.

The Roman soldiers mocked Jesus in Matthew 27:29: “when they had platted a crown of thorns, they put it upon his head, and a reed in his right hand: and they bowed the knee before him, and mocked him, saying, Hail, King of the Jews!”

Their derision was directed toward Christ and the title because that is what belonged to Him, and that is what He claimed.

Above Jesus on the cross “Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.” (John 19:19)

By Christ’s own affirmation Pilate inscribed this great title upon the cross.

Kings carry authority. On Christ’s part, all authority. To deny Christ kingship is to deny His authority, because both are inextricably linked.

 

[WPM]

this is a wonderful sermonette, but what does it have to do with topic at hand. Jesus is king- but He has not begun His reign yet. It begfins when He returns! It ends after He vanquishes death and then turns the Kingdom back to His father as Paul wrote in 1` Cor. 15

Totally not true! This is fake Premil news!

Jesus said Revelation 3:21: “I … overcame.”

Revelation 5:5 tells us: “behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed.”

The lion is known as the king of the jungle. It carries great authority and power. That is a very potent symbol of who Jesus is. By the way, the Bible does not say that Satan is a lion. It says that he walks about “like” a lion.

Ephesians 1:17-21, “the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come.”

This passage confirms the absolute authority that Christ now enjoys and reveals the unlimited scope of His current rule. It explicitly illustrates the current sovereign reign of Christ over all His enemies from the “right hand” of majesty on high.

Philippians 2:9-11 says, “wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name.”

He reigns today over the seen and the unseen world making every power and every authority “subject unto him.”

1 Peter 3:22 says, that Christ, “who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God (now!!!); angels and authorities and powers being (currently!!!) made subject unto him.”

Those who question Christ’s current reign do great assault upon the truth of God’s Word and undermine the current sovereign kingly position that He now assuredly holds.

Heaven’s authority is bestowed upon Christ. He is God! Colossians 2:9-10, 14-15 confirms: "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power … Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.”

He is risen and He is reigning! He is ruling over everything! This is happening right now! Check out the actual original text and check out the tenses involved. Christ’s universal rule, which is found in His divine character, exercises supreme authority over everything and everyone that exists. This dominion is seen in His sovereign dealing with mankind, whether it is with an individual person or with accumulation of nations – all are subject to his controlling power and ultimate influence. Such authority could be justly described as Christ’s providential kingship.

Colossians 1:15-17 addresses the great sovereign reign of Christ over all creation. Stating, Christ, “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”

These passages couldn’t be stronger in outlining where supreme authority lies today. Christ sovereignly reigns in kingly power over all creation.

1 Corinthians 15:25-28, saying: “he must reign (present tense), till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For ’he hath put’ (present tense) all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued (or subordinated) unto him (speaking of the second coming), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”

Here he shows that Christ is reigning now. It is written in the present, active infinitive sense. How long does he reign? He confirms: “till he hath put all enemies under his feet.” Again, this couldn’t be clearer! Every last enemy will be subjugated and subdued at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. The last enemy is identified as death!

There you have it! The second coming sees the final “put down” of all:

· rule
· authority
· power
· death

Hebrews 1:1-3, 2:6-8 says, “God … hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things … Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high … What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: ’Thou hast put all things in subjection’ (present tense) under his feet. For in that ‘he put all in subjection’ (present tense) under him, he left nothing that is not put under him."

Here we see our Lord’s awesome authority.

1 Timothy 1:17 describes Christ as “the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God.”

John Flavel says of Christ: “He rules and orders the Kingdom of Providence by supporting, permitting, restraining, limiting, protecting, punishing and rewarding those over whom He reigns providentially.”

Christ has set bounds upon wickedness. He limits the power and influence of the kingdom of darkness. He has spiritual limitations upon the movement and debauchery of Satan and his demons.

That is why Christ is called a King. He is ruler. He is a judge. He is Potentate. He carries ultimate authority.

As A.W. Pink puts it so well: “The limits of evil-doing and of evildoers has been divinely defined and cannot be exceeded.”

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You suggest that Jesus is going to sit upon a earthly throne ruling with a scepter of iron?

Scripture teaches Jesus returns and "Destroys" with a rod of Iron, as a Potter destroys his vessels

Revelation 2:27KJV
27 And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.

Revelation 19:15KJV
15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Exactly. How can a vase being broken into pieces be compared to a shepherd shepherding his sheep as Premils do? That's ridiculous. It's clearly a picture of Him destroying His enemies, not ruling over them the way an earthly ruler does.

 

[WPM]

Exactly. How can a vase being broken into pieces be compared to a shepherd shepherding his sheep as Premils do? That's ridiculous. It's clearly a picture of Him destroying His enemies, not ruling over them the way an earthly ruler does.

Totally agree! It is nonsensical.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL. The JWs, Mormons and Seventh Day Adventists are all Premil. Think about that. Along with Dispensationalism/Pretrib, this all was invented in the middle of the 18th century as a notable kick-back to the prevailing truth of God.

LOL. He obviously didn't think about that before he posted.

 

[marks]

Is Satan bound? What does Peter say?

1 Peter 5:8-9 KJV
8) Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9) Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Exactly. How can a vase being broken into pieces be compared to a shepherd shepherding his sheep as Premils do? That's ridiculous. It's clearly a picture of Him destroying His enemies, not ruling over them the way an earthly ruler does.

Zechariah 14:11-21 KJV
11) And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12) And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13) And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14) And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15) And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16) And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17) And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18) And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19) This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20) In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21) Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

This describes Jesus' rule. It's not ineffective so that the nations will continue to defy Him as they do now. Now they defy Jesus, in that day, they will not. He will in fact rule over them with a rod of iron.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Much love!

I stand by what I said. This kind of post where you just copied and pasted other posts is not helpful at all.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Zechariah 14:11-21 KJV
11) And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited.
12) And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.
13) And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
14) And Judah also shall fight at Jerusalem; and the wealth of all the heathen round about shall be gathered together, gold, and silver, and apparel, in great abundance.
15) And so shall be the plague of the horse, of the mule, of the camel, and of the ass, and of all the beasts that shall be in these tents, as this plague.
16) And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
17) And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
18) And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
19) This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
20) In that day shall there be upon the bells of the horses, HOLINESS UNTO THE LORD; and the pots in the LORD'S house shall be like the bowls before the altar.
21) Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.

This describes Jesus' rule. It's not ineffective so that the nations will continue to defy Him as they do now. Now they defy Jesus, in that day, they will not. He will in fact rule over them with a rod of iron.

Much love!

You often talk past people instead of to them. Please talk TO me. Please explain to me how a vase being broken into pieces correlates with your understanding of Jesus ruling over His enemies.