22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[WPM]

Is Satan bound? What does Peter say?

1 Peter 5:8-9 KJV
8) Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9) Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

Much love!

Read what is in the text rather than what you want it to say.

1 Peter 5:8 says: “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.” The very next verse 1 Peter 5:9 affirms, “whom resist stedfast in the faith.”

The true Church of Jesus Christ is a resistance movement. While Satan resists us, the Bible says we have power to resist him, and subjugate his purposes against us. We resist the lawlessness and evil encroachments of the devil around us.

In fact, James 4:7 tells us what happens when you do resist, “Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”

This is incredible! You resist, he must flee. This word “flee” in the original means to escape, flee away or vanish. Now think about it. When you resist, he must disappear. The conflict today for the Church is not an earthly battle to possess an earthly territory but a spiritual battle to possess spiritual territory.

By resisting Satan, standing upon the Word of God, and staying steadfast, we have enormous individual impact upon the kingdom of darkness; we curtail the expansion of its evil designs.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Is Satan bound? What does Peter say?

1 Peter 5:8-9 KJV
8) Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9) Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

Much love!

Yes, he is. I don't believe you know what it means for him to be bound. Can you please tell me what the difference is between what Satan was able to do in the world in Old Testament times compared to New Testament times?

And, did you read 1 Peter 5:9? Because of the Holy Spirit dwelling in us we are able to resist him. As James said in James 4:7, if we resist him then he must flee from us. This was not the case in Old Testament times when people did not have the power of the Holy Spirit dwelling in them. You're not understanding that Satan was bound from preventing the world from hearing the truth of God's word like he was able to do in Old Testament times. Notice what this passage says:

Hebrews 2:14 Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might break the power of him who holds the power of death—that is, the devil— 15 and free those who all their lives were held in slavery by their fear of death.

This is related to Satan's binding. In Old Testament times he had "the power of death" and he used that to keep people "in slavery by their fear of death". But, then, once Christ died and rose again, Satan's "power of death" and ability to be a slave master ended. Once the gospel was spread through the world then the hope of eternal life was brought into the world which they didn't have before. And Satan was unable to stop that from happening because he was bound from doing so.

 

[Marty fox]

Is Satan bound? What does Peter say?

1 Peter 5:8-9 KJV
8) Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9) Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

Much love!

This is a classic case of premils not understanding the amil view of what the binding of satan is. How can premils discuss when they don't understand what the amil view is?

 

[marks]

I stand by what I said. This kind of post where you just copied and pasted other posts is not helpful at all.

I'm just showing you where the other guy said it.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Read what is in the text rather than what you want it to say.

1 Peter 5:8 says: “Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour.” The very next verse 1 Peter 5:9 affirms, “whom resist stedfast in the faith.”

The true Church of Jesus Christ is a resistance movement. While Satan resists us, the Bible says we have power to resist him, and subjugate his purposes against us. We resist the lawlessness and evil encroachments of the devil around us.

In fact, James 4:7 tells us what happens when you do resist, “Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”

This is incredible! You resist, he must flee. This word “flee” in the original means to escape, flee away or vanish. Now think about it. When you resist, he must disappear. The conflict today for the Church is not an earthly battle to possess an earthly territory but a spiritual battle to possess spiritual territory.

By resisting Satan, standing upon the Word of God, and staying steadfast, we have enormous individual impact upon the kingdom of darkness; we curtail the expansion of its evil designs.

You say he's bound, Peter says he walks about.

We as Christians are free from his power, but the world is not.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

this is a wonderful sermonette, but what does it have to do with topic at hand. Jesus is king- but He has not begun His reign yet. It begfins when He returns! It ends after He vanquishes death and then turns the Kingdom back to His father as Paul wrote in 1` Cor. 15

A king who is not reigning? I've never heard of such a thing. You can't be a king without reigning over your kingdom. That doesn't make any sense.

 

[marks]

This is a classic case of premils not understanding the amil view of what the binding of satan is. How can premils discuss when they don't understand what the amil view is?

I think I understand. It's a much less limiting "bound and sealed into the abyss." If you think I don't understand, explain it to me.

Jesus will rule, not allowing rebellion, and promoting Israel, with Satan bound in the sealed abyss.

Today there is much rebellion against God, Israel is constantly under threat and attack, and Satan "walks about". What am I missing?

Much love!

Edit to add . . . excessive fonts and colors don't help . . .

 

[marks]

When does the seven angel sound his trumpet?

Revelation 11:15-18 KJV
15) And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16) And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17) Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18) And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Much love!

 

[Truth7t7]

Exactly. How can a vase being broken into pieces be compared to a shepherd shepherding his sheep as Premils do? That's ridiculous. It's clearly a picture of Him destroying His enemies, not ruling over them the way an earthly ruler does.

Yes Jesus ruling the earth with a rod of iron during a fairy tale Millenium is one of the many lies within their teachings, as the clear interpretation of ruling with a rod of iron in "Destruction" is given

Just another lie trying to establish Jesus on this earth in a Millennial Kingdom that will never take place, its a man made fairy tale

 

[WPM]

You say he's bound, Peter says he walks about.

We as Christians are free from his power, but the world is not.

Much love!

He is like a dog on a chain. Satan is powerless to do certain things today.

• Satan is powerless to do what he wants to do.
• He is powerless to stop the Church of Jesus Christ spreading the good news of Gospel throughout the nations.
• He is powerless to stop someone coming to Christ.
• He is powerless to stop a man or woman of God walking in the will of God.
• He is powerless to harm a believer without God’s permission.
• He is powerless to resist a Spirit-filled believer implementing delegated authority from on high against the devil and his demons.
• He is powerless to affect the final outcome of this great battle between the kingdom of God and the kingdom of darkness.

 

[marks]

Yes, he is. I don't believe you know what it means for him to be bound.

Revelation 9:13-15 KJV
13) And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14) Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15) And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

2 Timothy 2:9 KJV
9) Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

1 Corinthians 7:39 KJV
39) The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 7:27 KJV
27) Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.

Maybe ask your husband or wife how much freedom you have in being "bound to a wife"?

Matthew 16:19 KJV
19) And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Looking at this one from the Revelation ch. 8, the four angels bound at the river Euphrates. They are prepared for that hour, and remain bound until then.


Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You say he's bound, Peter says he walks about.

We as Christians are free from his power, but the world is not.

Can you please address what he said in his post? What are your thoughts on it?

Do you understand that the word "bound" does not have to imply that whoever or whatever is bound is completely incapacitated and unable to do anything?

Isaiah 56:3 Let no foreigner who is bound to the Lord say, “The Lord will surely exclude me from his people.” And let no eunuch complain, “I am only a dry tree.”

Is this verse talking about a foreigner being bound to the Lord so that they are unable to be physically separated from the Lord?

Matthew 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”

Is this talking about physically tying things up in heaven and on earth?

Revelation 9:13-15 KJV
13) And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
14) Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.
15) And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

2 Timothy 2:9 KJV
9) Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

1 Corinthians 7:39 KJV
39) The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 7:27 KJV
27) Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.

Maybe ask your husband or wife how much freedom you have in being "bound to a wife"?

Matthew 16:19 KJV
19) And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Looking at this one from the Revelation ch. 8, the four angels bound at the river Euphrates. They are prepared for that hour, and remain bound until then.


Much love!

You should be able to see from those verses that to be bound does not have to refer to being completely incapacitated and unable to do anything the way you understand Satan's binding.

 

[WPM]

You need to back up to those questions I've asked you a few times that you don't want to answer. Own up. Show me you can be real.

Much love!

You are not going to tell me what to do. I will do what is right. Your attitude here has been wrong. When that changes i will reassess.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I'm just showing you where the other guy said it.

He didn't say what you said that he did, though. If you think he did, then show me how you're coming to that conclusion. It's not as if I said what I did without knowing what he had said, so I obviously don't interpret what he said the way you do.

 

[marks]

You should be able to see from those verses that to be bound does not have to refer to being completely incapacitated and unable to do anything the way you understand Satan's binding.

What would you suppose those 4 angels are doing right now? How much freedom would you suppose?

Much love!

 

[marks]

You are not going to tell me what to do. I will do what is right. Your attitude here has been wrong. When that changes i will reassess.

Understood. You can falsely accuse, and then act like this. Got it. That's a strange idea of what is right, or so it seems to me.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What would you suppose those 4 angels are doing right now? How much freedom would you suppose?

Much love!

They are doing the things that angels would normally be doing. Why do you want to take everything written in a highly symbolic book like Revelation so literally? And I wasn't just talking about that verse that you posted. You also posted these:

2 Timothy 2:9 KJV
9) Wherein I suffer trouble, as an evil doer, even unto bonds; but the word of God is not bound.

1 Corinthians 7:39 KJV
39) The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

1 Corinthians 7:27 KJV
27) Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.

Do these verses have anything to do with someone being physically chained up and incapacitated in the same way that you understand Satan's binding?

 

[marks]

You should be able to see from those verses that to be bound does not have to refer to being completely incapacitated and unable to do anything the way you understand Satan's binding.

Even the one's concerning marriage? Being bound to your wife, will, that's not absolute?

I hope you excuse me, but I'm not going to try that one on my wife. Not that I'd want to, I have a wonderful wife! But seriously, how long is the husband's leash?

And how long is Satan's?

And what of these? They are locked up in the abyss. They get to fly around now?

Revelation 9:1-11 KJV
1) And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
2) And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
3) And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4) And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5) And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6) And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.
7) And the shapes of the locusts were like unto horses prepared unto battle; and on their heads were as it were crowns like gold, and their faces were as the faces of men.
8) And they had hair as the hair of women, and their teeth were as the teeth of lions.
9) And they had breastplates, as it were breastplates of iron; and the sound of their wings was as the sound of chariots of many horses running to battle.
10) And they had tails like unto scorpions, and there were stings in their tails: and their power was to hurt men five months.
11) And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon.

Much love!

 

[Marty fox]

I think I understand. It's a much less limiting "bound and sealed into the abyss." If you think I don't understand, explain it to me.

Jesus will rule, not allowing rebellion, and promoting Israel, with Satan bound in the sealed abyss.

Today there is much rebellion against God, Israel is constantly under threat and attack, and Satan "walks about". What am I missing?

Much love!

Edit to add . . . excessive fonts and colors don't help . . .

Satan is a spiritual being whos binding is spiritual not physical. Thinking that satan who is a spiritual being requires literal chains and a sealed pit to restrain him makes no sense. Jesus reigns because He is God not because satan is bound this would give satan way too much credit.

Do you ever wonder why it only says that satan is bound and not satan and his demons? Satan is just one single spiritual being why bother binding him if him minions are still on the loose.

First we need to figure out what exactally satan is bound from. The bible says from deceiving that nations. Deceiving the nations about what?

Jesus explained the binding Himself in the verses below.

Matthew 12:27-29
27 And if I drive out demons by Beelzebul, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28 But if it is by the Spirit of God that I drive out demons, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.

29 “Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man’s house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can plunder his house.

Jesus is the stronger one who tied up (satan) the strong man and then Jesus stole his possessions, the ones who were deceived by satan. The power of the gospel is the great chain that bound satan spiritually.

On the day of Pentecost the gospel spread from a room full of people to according to Paul all over the known world within 30 to 40 years (without phones, tv's the internet or fast travel) that to me is proof that satan is currently bound spiritually.

 

[marks]

They are doing the things that angels would normally be doing. Why do you want to take everything written in a highly symbolic book like Revelation so literally? And I wasn't just talking about that verse that you posted. You also posted these:

So being bound means nothing.

That's just not how I read the Bible. And that's why we disagree.

Much love!