22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Spiritual Israelite]

Even the one's concerning marriage? Being bound to your wife, will, that's not absolute?

It has nothing to do with being incapacitated and not able to do anything. That's my point. I'm not sure why you have so much trouble seeing the points that I'm making. It seems like you miss the point every single time.

 

[marks]

First we need to figure out what exactally satan is bound from. The bible says from deceiving that nations. Deceiving the nations about what?

The answer is actually given directly in that passage:

Revelation 20:7-8 KJV
7) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rebellion against God, and His people.

Much love!

 

[marks]

It has nothing to do with being incapacitated and not able to do anything. That's my point. I'm not sure why you have so much trouble seeing the points that I'm making. It seems like you miss the point every single time.

Right back atcha!

Bound is real, it means something. Bound to a wife means you don't get to have another wife, not even just a little bit.

Much love!

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So being bound means nothing.

That's just not how I read the Bible. And that's why we disagree.

Much love!

When did I say that? I don't appreciate your attitude right now. You like to complain about the attitudes of others, but you are being very rude right now. Please read my post #702 where I explained my understanding of his binding. And my understanding is certainly not that "being bound means nothing". I've never said anything remotely like that.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Right back atcha!

Bound is real, it means something. Bound to a wife means you don't get to have another wife, not even just a little bit.

Much love!

You're not understanding something here. I believe that when Satan is bound he is fully bound. That isn't what we are disagreeing about. What we're really disagreeing about is what it is that he is bound from doing. I explained my belief in post #702 where I believe he is bound from preventing the gospel from going into the world and keeping people in slavery to the fear of death. You think it means he's bound from doing anything at all. That's the difference. Again, we agree that he is completely bound, but we disagree on what he is bound from doing. Please try to remember that so that you stop misrepresenting what I believe by acting as if I'm saying his binding is meaningless and things like that, which is not at all what I'm saying.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

So being bound means nothing.

That's just not how I read the Bible. And that's why we disagree.

Much love!

I am not saying that being bound means nothing! I don't appreciate the way you're misrepresenting my beliefs here. In the case of those angels they are only bound from doing what that passage describes them as doing when they are loosed. There's no reason to think they are bound from doing anything at all during that time.

 

[covenantee]

You made a remark to me and said my question was answered in that post

I was not discussing the present kingdom.

I pray now you see why I said your post did not answer the comment I made.

I attempted to reply to your post 644, but was unable to so because it is comprised exclusively of quotes which should instead have been incorporated as copy pastes in the body of the post.

A reply is in essence a quote.

It is not possible to quote quotes.

 

[jeffweeder]

You're not understanding something here. I believe that when Satan is bound he is fully bound. That isn't what we are disagreeing about. What we're really disagreeing about is what it is that he is bound from doing. I explained my belief in post #702 where I believe he is bound from preventing the gospel from going into the world and keeping people in slavery to the fear of death. You think it means he's bound from doing anything at all. That's the difference. Again, we agree that he is completely bound, but we disagree on what he is bound from doing. Please try to remember that so that you stop misrepresenting what I believe by acting as if I'm saying his binding is meaningless and things like that, which is not at all what I'm saying.

Well stated.
The strongman is bound and his goods / unsaved are taken from him. Nothing the strongman can do about it when people come to Faith through the Lords saving ministry of reconciliation.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Isaiah 2:2-4 KJV
2) And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3) And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4) And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

This is under Jesus' rule.

According to scripture, the last days had already begun on the day of Pentecost long ago and they lead up to the day Christ returns. So, why are you not keeping that in mind when interpreting this passage from Isaiah 2?

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

 

[Marty fox]

The answer is actually given directly in that passage:

Revelation 20:7-8 KJV
7) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8) And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

Rebellion against God, and His people.

Much love!

Is this about a literal battle on a city God loves or is the city God loves the church which is surrounded by the world because the world has declared war on it?

The church is the bride of Christ the new Jerusalem.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Well stated.
The strongman is bound and his goods / unsaved are taken from him. Nothing the strongman can do about it when people come to Faith through the Lords saving ministry of reconciliation.

Jeff! Welcome to the forum, my friend.

I agree. Premils don't understand that Satan's binding is referenced in more than just Revelation 20, so that's a major reason why they don't understand what he is actually bound from doing.

 

[Marty fox]

Well stated.
The strongman is bound and his goods / unsaved are taken from him. Nothing the strongman can do about it when people come to Faith through the Lords saving ministry of reconciliation.

Wow my old friend how have you been doing Jeff?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

No one dies during the Millennium. That is the whole point of them not being mortals. Mortals implies death. They are righteous and "shine as the sun" meaning there is no limit to their lives, period. When they have offspring, the offspring are not mortals either. There are no mortals born, period. If a young person decides to rebel, they are considered cursed and they are placed in Death, which is a location separate from life on earth. It is not rehab. It is not a prison. It is not being sent immediately through time to the GWT judgment. It is Death, which is dealt with at the GWT.

This is complete, utter nonsense that no one else in the world would ever agree with. Not much more I can say about it.

 

[marks]

Why do you want to take everything written in a highly symbolic book like Revelation so literally

Why do you want to take

Assumes I have the desire to "take everything literally".

in a highly symbolic book like Revelation

Some is symbol and some not.

I intend to believe prophetic narrative passages, and I suggest you do the same.

By declaring all to be symbols, you are left having to figure out what those symbols must mean. And without explicit Biblical teaching, each come to their own ideas, and all the various POV's result.

If there is unity to be found in the doctines of the Bible, that's not the way to do it.

Much love!

 

[jeffweeder]

Wow my old friend how have you been doing Jeff?

Good to see you Marty. Are you that good looking bloke in the middle of your Avatar . Im good Bro'

 

[marks]

When did I say that? I don't appreciate your attitude right now. You like to complain about the attitudes of others, but you are being very rude right now. Please read my post #702 where I explained my understanding of his binding. And my understanding is certainly not that "being bound means nothing". I've never said anything remotely like that.

Didn't you say that the angels bound in the river Euphrates are just doing whatever it is angels do? Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant.

But anyway, I find this style of discussion laborious and slow, and I don't see much reason to continue.

Much love!

 

[Marty fox]

Good to see you Marty. Are you that good looking bloke in the middle of your Avatar . Im good Bro'

Yes that’s me but it is about 8 years ago lol

I guess that other site just disappeared eh? My dad still runs that other one you visited a few times

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Why do you want to take

Assumes I have the desire to "take everything literally".

Isn't it your default to assume everything is literal unless it is spelled out to you to be otherwise?

in a highly symbolic book like Revelation

Some is symbol and some not.

I didn't say otherwise. You misunderstood me once again. I'm saying it contains a lot of symbolism, but I'm not saying it's literally all symbolic.

I intend to believe prophetic narrative passages, and I suggest you do the same.

I don't even know what that means and that approach is not something that scripture itself promotes. Paul said we need to use spiritual discernment to interpret scripture (1 Cor 2:9-16), so we need to allow the Spirit to show us what any given passage means instead of making assumptions about any given passage based on a "prophetic narrative" approach.

By declaring all to be symbols, you are left having to figure out what those symbols must mean. And without explicit Biblical teaching, each come to their own ideas, and all the various POV's result.

I'm not "declaring all to be symbols". Can we try to have a discussion that doesn't involve exaggeration and misrepresenting each other's views? Is that possible? I think it is.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Yes that’s me but it is about 8 years ago lol

I guess that other site just disappeared eh? My dad still runs that other one you visited a few times

Are you referring to the Bible Forums site? If so, yeah, that site is not there anymore.

 

[Marty fox]

Are you referring to the Bible Forums site? If so, yeah, that site is not there anymore.

Yes that’s the one