22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Eternally Grateful]

The reader can see for himself who is addressing the issue, who has corroboration and who is presenting a biblical argument.

I previously showed you, and once again you avoided it:

"It is interesting that each of these parallels that were received in heaven (2-7) start with the Greek word kai ("And") even though they commence a new vision pertaining to the intra-Advent period and ending at the second coming."

Getting you to address the issues is like getting blood out of a stone.

yes they can

EG posts the passage numerous times word for word. and goes through it.

PM refuses to acknowledge it. and refuses to look at the passage itself.

 

[WPM]

Have you seen that much of this debate is over the meanings of words? That's the death spiral of discussion. Once people start challenging the normal and customary and Biblical meanings of words, I seldom see a return from that.

And then there is this divorcing passages from their contexts, next big red flag.

Much love!

Hello! The Greek word kai is normally interpreted "and" in Scripture not "then." It is Premils that must change the meaning to support their error. They have clearly no answer to Amil. They have no corroboration. This is such a one-sided discussion. There has still been no viable response to the Op, nothing. Surprise, surprise!

 

[Timtofly]

This is complete, utter nonsense that no one else in the world would ever agree with. Not much more I can say about it.

And those 22 reason are complete nonsense, that a bunch a people accept. Nonsense is still nonsense even if billions of humans follow after it. Amil is no different than Islam or Mormons who have changed the truth of God's Word to suit their own personal beliefs. That is about all that can be said about Amil.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Revelation 20:2
2 He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit,

Lets look at the verse above

2 He laid hold of the dragon,(dragon is symbolic) that serpent (serpent is symbolic)of old, who is the Devil and Satan,

Your right, its symbolic. but with all prophecy, we are told what the symbol is, in this case, it is satan.

and bound him for a thousand years; 3 and he cast him into the bottomless pit, (bottomless pit is symbolic)

Symbolic of what. Satan was a person. Is not the bottomless pit also a place?

Why is the dragon, serpent and bottomless pit all symbolic but not the binding? Does that make sense? Can there actually be a bottomless pit?

Is God unable to create a place where he can BIND an Angelic being in order to BIND HIM, SHUT HIM UP. and prevent him from decieving the nations as he has since the begining of time until even today?

I believe he can, yes. What this place is? I do nt know. I do not have to. I just have to believe God can do what he did

 

[WPM]

Have you seen that much of this debate is over the meanings of words? That's the death spiral of discussion. Once people start challenging the normal and customary and Biblical meanings of words, I seldom see a return from that.

And then there is this divorcing passages from their contexts, next big red flag.

Much love!

Hello! The Greek word kai is normally interpreted "and" in Scripture not "then."

 

[Marty fox]

my friend, this happened under nebachadnezzar back when Daniel was led exhile to babylon, and eventually given his prophecy of Daniel 9 which spoke of the destruction which occured in 70 AD. The destruction which would occure BEFORE the abomination of desolation. Which Jesu sspoke of in Matt 24. WHich he said would IMMEDIATELY be followed by this great tribulation. which would continue UNTIL christ himself returns to put an end to it.

Well I see it as Antiochus Epehanies but did you read my second point about Jesus? That was the worst thing to ever happen

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He can't deceive the ones who choose to have faith in the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit reveals' the truth and the mystery of God.

You see the Jews didn't realize that the Messiah was also God and that He would save them.

Matthew 16:13-17
13 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”

14 So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”

15 He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.

Thats not what the passage says,

John says when he is losed he will ONCE again decieve the nations. By decieving them to go to war against Gods people.

there is NOTHING in the passage which would lead any reader who reads the passage that it is just the gospel.. Yu have to read into it something that is not there

 

[Eternally Grateful]

You presented one argument that I quickly refuted

You have not done any such thing

and which you (notably) ignored.

I did not ignore. I REJECTED the argument, because you can not show in CONTEXT that that is what is being said. You refuse to do that

I showed you the fallacy of your chronological theory and you had no answer, apart from personal attacks. Address the issues and stop avoiding!

No you proved to me the fallacy of your argument and gave me no reason to change my view.

 

[Marty fox]

Your right, its symbolic. but with all prophecy, we are told what the symbol is, in this case, it is satan.


Symbolic of what. Satan was a person. Is not the bottomless pit also a place?


Is God unable to create a place where he can BIND an Angelic being in order to BIND HIM, SHUT HIM UP. and prevent him from decieving the nations as he has since the begining of time until even today?

I believe he can, yes. What this place is? I do nt know. I do not have to. I just have to believe God can do what he did

The bottomless pit isn't a literal place but a state a circumstance

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Hello! The Greek word kai is normally interpreted "and" in Scripture not "then." It is Premils that must change the meaning to support their error. They have clearly no answer to Amil. They have no corroboration. This is such a one-sided discussion. There has still been no viable response to the Op, nothing. Surprise, surprise!

it does not matter if you use the word AND or THEN.

in context. they both mean the same thing

This happened
AND or THEN this happened
AND or THEN this happened

all in chronology

You just made my point for me, thank you

 

[covenantee]

jesus was no preterist.

He foretold an event which would occur before 70 AD. Isn't that part of the definition of preterism?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The bottomless pit isn't a literal place but a state a circumstance

prove this..

if this is true. this is not prophecy, it is a parable..

John is not parabolic language

 

[WPM]

it does not matter if you use the word AND or THEN.

in context. they both mean the same thing

This happened
AND or THEN this happened
AND or THEN this happened

all in chronology

You just made my point for me, thank you

It is interesting that each of these parallels that were received in heaven (2-7) start with the Greek word kai ("And") even though they commence a new vision pertaining to the intra-Advent period and ending at the second coming.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

He foretold an event which would occur before 70 AD. Isn't that part of the definition of preterism?

He foretold an event which would happen in 70 AD and event which has not yet until this present day occured yet.

Preterism, if I understand it right, claims everything happened in 70 AD and it is ALL past tense..

 

[WPM]

prove this..

if this is true. this is not prophecy, it is a parable..

John is not parabolic language

It is a symbolic passage in the most figurative setting in Scripture. What is more: you have zero corrobration to support a literal interpretation of this metaphoric portrayal.

Is the key mentioned in Rev 20:1 a metal door key?

No.

Is the chain mentioned in Rev 20:1 a iron chain?

No.

Is the dragon in Rev 20:2 a literal physical dragon?

No.

Is the serpent in Rev 20:2 a literal physical serpent?

No.

Is the 1,000 yrs a literal 1,000 yr period?

No.

The abyss is not a geographical place but a spiritual condition of restraint. Please remember demons are spirits. Satan and his minions were injured at the cross, Satan’s head is now bruised. His movement is impaired. He is incapacitated.

Satan is a spiritual being. We are therefore looking in Revelation 20 at spiritual chains and a spiritual prison. The abyss is a spiritual condition. A physical chain and a physical prison will not cut it. The restraint upon him is spiritual. He is like a dog on a chain. A chain does not prevent movement, it limits movement.

Do prisoners have movement within a prison?
Can prisoners hurt?
Can prisoners steal?
Can prisoners kill?
Can prisoners scheme?
Can prisoners commit disorder?

Of course they do.

The wicked are repeatedly depicted in Scripture as being in a prison and being in chains, does that suggest an inability to move?

Of course not!

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Well I see it as Antiochus Epehanies but did you read my second point about Jesus? That was the worst thing to ever happen

Antiochus epiphanes did commit an abomination of desolation. when he slaughtered a pic in the holy place.

He did not go into jerusalem, destroy the city and temple and murder most of the city, That was nebachadnezzer.. see Daniel 1..

as for jesus, the worse thing to ever happen to him was the cross.. Which occurred because of the second worse thing that ever happened and sent him to the cross. the sin of adam and eve in the garden.

so I anm not sure of your point or how it relates.. The great tribulation. or time of jacons trouble is not concerning Jesus, it concerns the world. and Israel as a hole

Jeremiah 30:7
Alas! For that day is great, So that none is like it; And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble, But he shall be saved out of it.

it also says Israel will be saved out of it.. Which is confirmed in Rev 13 I believe. and other places..

that did not happen in 70 AD

 

[Marty fox]

prove this..

if this is true. this is not prophecy, it is a parable..

John is not parabolic language

The proof is a bottomless pit doesn't exist its imposable

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is a symbolic passage in the most figurative setting in Scripture.

Its prophecy. Prophecy speaks of LITERAL EVENTS. as PROVEN by the fact that JESUS and GENTILE NATIONS have LITERALLY FULILLED past prophetic events.

I interpret prophecy by precedence. I look at past fulfille dprophecy. I see it was fullfilled to the T exacly as prophesied.

If past prophecy was fulfilled literally (it was)

then I look to this precidence and declare that future prophecy will ALSO be fulfilled literaly (I believe it will.)

that is what seperates us

You see prophecy that does not fit your belief system if yuo take it literally, So you make an allegory of it. It is symbolic of a spiritual truth.

I see prophecy as God tellus us what will happen many many years in advance, and when it happens. the people who WITNESS the events happening, will turn and look to God and say, he is the one who told us this would happen and it did, And I know HE IS GOD.

Isreal rejected the prophecies of Jesus and crucified him because they failed to take him literally.

Many will rejec tin the future when they see these things happen.

But many thousand and thousand of peopel since Jesus has believed BASED on fulfilled prophecy, And many in the future will do the same when the things God tells us WILL happen. Happen.

 

[covenantee]

He foretold an event which would happen in 70 AD and event which has not yet until this present day occured yet.

Preterism, if I understand it right, claims everything happened in 70 AD and it is ALL past tense..

The Judean Christians fled in 66 AD. That qualifies as a preterist event.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The proof is a bottomless pit doesn't exist its imposable

with god all things are possible.

The dragon, He was satan, a literal being

He is said to be captured and placed in this place called the bottomless pit.

If satan is literal. and can be grabbed, the bottomless pit is a literal place also.