Electing New Pope

[Truther]

babies don’t have any personal sin so there is no need for repentance

how about you obey you’re savior in Matt 28:19 and get the Christian sacrament of baptism!

Stop being a Matt 28:19 skipper!

Why would you be repent and be baptized per Acts 2:38 as an infant?

RCC babies are subject to it.

Glad you think it is weird.

 

[Truther]

Then show me where.

Chapter and Verse please . . .

And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; [21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: [22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


And all this time you thought it said this...


And are built upon the foundation of COMMENTARY AND DOGMA, THE POPE himself being the chief corner stone; [21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: [22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

 

[Truther]

You provided 8 passages from Scripture that destroys what @Truther has been taught by his men......You gave him the Truth but I suspect he will keep denying it.

Mary

Are you father Mary or mother Mary?

 

[Truther]

Using Scripture alone show me where that is taught in Scripture! (hint, it's not)
Also, historically we KNOW that the early Church did NOT have a set list of books that they considered Scripture.........soooooo you are wrong on 2 counts!

Here is a passage from Scripture that teaches opposite of what your men have taught you: 2 Thessalonians 2:15

Are you debunking the NT again?

Very naughty.

 

[Marymog]

Are you debunking the NT again?

Very naughty.

Ummmm....sooooo are you going to prove me wrong or just bloviate?

 

[Marymog]

Are you father Mary or mother Mary?

Lol....that is the only thing you have to say after @Illuminator proved you wrong?

you crack me up

 

[Truther]

Ummmm....sooooo are you going to prove me wrong or just bloviate?

You actually teach the NT is not complete with 27 books?

 

[Illuminator]

You're missing the point and need ears to hear, which can only be given by the Holy Spirit to those who have truly received Jesus and His Spirit. Do you see any capitals in those reference to fathers or fathers you yourself brought? The point is that nobody is to give or receive TITLES in the body of Christ. The apostle wrote "THERE IS TO BE NO SCHISM IN THE BODY." No clergy/laity division, which is artificially contrived, ie, man-made, not God ordained. No separate groups of those with titles and those without titles. God is not a respecter of persons. Everyone who has the Spirit has been given spiritual gifts, some of the those gifts are greater and some lesser, that is all. But ALL of them are needful. "Can any one part of the body say to another part I have no need of you?"

Anyway, not much more to say here I think....except COME TO JESUS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE LIFE!

If you are happy in your group of believers, fine. But that does not qualify you to deny the biblical functions of deacons, priests and bishops.

Matt. 16:18; 18:18 – Jesus uses the word “ecclesia” only twice in the New Testament Scriptures, which demonstrates that Jesus intended a visible, unified, hierarchical, and authoritative Church.

Acts 20:17,28 – Paul refers to both the elders or priests (“presbyteroi”) and the bishops (“episkopoi”) of the Church. Both are ordained leaders within the hierarchical structure of the Church. It is not, as you say, "artificially contrived".

1 Cor. 12:28 – God Himself appoints the various positions of authority within the Church. As a loving Father, God gives His children the freedom and authority to act with charity and justice to bring about His work of salvation.

Eph. 4:11 – the Church is hierarchical and includes apostles, prophets, pastors, and teachers, all charged to build up the Church. The Church is not an invisible entity with an invisible foundation. It is not, as you say, "artificially contrived".

Phil. 1:1 – Paul addresses the bishops and deacons of the Church. They can all trace their unbroken lineage back to the apostles.

1 Tim. 3:1; Titus 1:7 – Christ’s Church has bishops (“episkopoi”) who are direct successors of the apostles. The bishops can trace the authority conferred upon them back to the apostles. It is not, as you say, "artificially contrived".

1 Tim. 5:17; Titus 1:5; James 5:14 – Christ’s Church also has elders or priests (“presbyteroi”) who serve the bishops. It is not, as you say, "artificially contrived".

1 Tim. 3:8 – Christ’s Church also has deacons (“diakonoi”). Thus, Jesus Christ’s Church has a hierarchy of authority – bishops, priests and deacons, who can all trace their lineage back to Peter and the apostles. It is not, as you say, "artificially contrived".

Exodus 28:1 and 19:6 – shows the three offices of the Old Testament priesthood
(1). high priest – Aaron (Ex. 28:1);
(2). Ministerial priests – Aaron’s sons (Ex. 19:6; 28:1); and
(3). Universal priests – Israel (Ex. 19:6).
The New Testament priesthood also has three offices:
(1) High Priest – Jesus Christ (Heb. 3:1);
(2) Ministerial priests – the ordained bishops and priests (Rom. 15:16; 1 Tim. 3:1,8; 5:17; Titus 1:7); and
(3) Universal priests – all the baptized (1 Pet. 2:5,9; Rev. 1:6).

They are not, as you say, "artificially contrived". I have a theory about anti-authority and anti-institutional Christians (who abandon Jesus in the Eucharist). They often come from dysfunctional families. Good Christian boys and girls can't hate their parents, and when they reach the ripe old age of 15 when they think they know everything, they rebel against an existential image of authority, the Catholic Church. So fundamentalism is attractive because it gives them security and meets deep seated emotional needs. They are also fed with false caricatures of how wrong the Catholic Church is. Sometimes, they take these false caricatures into a discussion board, thinking they have a valid argument based on emotion, not facts.

 

[Marymog]

You actually teach the NT is not complete with 27 books?

You just answered my question....you are going to bloviate.

 

[Truther]

If you are happy in your group of believers, fine. But that does not qualify you to deny the biblical functions of deacons, priests and bishops.

Matt. 16:18; 18:18 – Jesus uses the word “ecclesia” only twice in the New Testament Scriptures, which demonstrates that Jesus intended a visible, unified, hierarchical, and authoritative Church.

Acts 20:17,28 – Paul refers to both the elders or priests (“presbyteroi”) and the bishops (“episkopoi”) of the Church. Both are ordained leaders within the hierarchical structure of the Church. It is not, as you say, "artificially contrived".

1 Cor. 12:28 – God Himself appoints the various positions of authority within the Church. As a loving Father, God gives His children the freedom and authority to act with charity and justice to bring about His work of salvation.

Eph. 4:11 – the Church is hierarchical and includes apostles, prophets, pastors, and teachers, all charged to build up the Church. The Church is not an invisible entity with an invisible foundation. It is not, as you say, "artificially contrived".

Phil. 1:1 – Paul addresses the bishops and deacons of the Church. They can all trace their unbroken lineage back to the apostles.

1 Tim. 3:1; Titus 1:7 – Christ’s Church has bishops (“episkopoi”) who are direct successors of the apostles. The bishops can trace the authority conferred upon them back to the apostles. It is not, as you say, "artificially contrived".

1 Tim. 5:17; Titus 1:5; James 5:14 – Christ’s Church also has elders or priests (“presbyteroi”) who serve the bishops. It is not, as you say, "artificially contrived".

1 Tim. 3:8 – Christ’s Church also has deacons (“diakonoi”). Thus, Jesus Christ’s Church has a hierarchy of authority – bishops, priests and deacons, who can all trace their lineage back to Peter and the apostles. It is not, as you say, "artificially contrived".

Exodus 28:1 and 19:6 – shows the three offices of the Old Testament priesthood
(1). high priest – Aaron (Ex. 28:1);
(2). Ministerial priests – Aaron’s sons (Ex. 19:6; 28:1); and
(3). Universal priests – Israel (Ex. 19:6).
The New Testament priesthood also has three offices:
(1) High Priest – Jesus Christ (Heb. 3:1);
(2) Ministerial priests – the ordained bishops and priests (Rom. 15:16; 1 Tim. 3:1,8; 5:17; Titus 1:7); and
(3) Universal priests – all the baptized (1 Pet. 2:5,9; Rev. 1:6).

They are not, as you say, "artificially contrived". I have a theory about anti-authority and anti-institutional Christians (who abandon Jesus in the Eucharist). They often come from dysfunctional families. Good Christian boys and girls can't hate their parents, and when they reach the ripe old age of 15 when they think they know everything, they rebel against an existential image of authority, the Catholic Church. So fundamentalism is attractive because it gives them security and meets deep seated emotional needs. They are also fed with false caricatures of how wrong the Catholic Church is. Sometimes, they take these false caricatures into a discussion board, thinking they have a valid argument based on emotion, not facts.

The believer is a priest unto their God, not to each other.

Get it right...


And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever...

 

[Truther]

You just answered my question....you are going to bloviate.

You RCCers teach that you can add to scripture.

That's easy to see.

You added doctrines and dogmas to the 27 books of the NT that can match the amount of the civil laws of the USA.

Crazy stuff.

 

[theefaith]

Why would you be repent and be baptized per Acts 2:38 as an infant?

RCC babies are subject to it.

Glad you think it is weird.

If it’s not possible then it’s not required

baptism is necessary
Repentance is conditional

 

[Lizbeth]

As I said you need ears

If you are happy in your group of believers, fine. But that does not qualify you to deny the biblical functions of deacons, priests and bishops.

Matt. 16:18; 18:18 – Jesus uses the word “ecclesia” only twice in the New Testament Scriptures, which demonstrates that Jesus intended a visible, unified, hierarchical, and authoritative Church.

Acts 20:17,28 – Paul refers to both the elders or priests (“presbyteroi”) and the bishops (“episkopoi”) of the Church. Both are ordained leaders within the hierarchical structure of the Church. It is not, as you say, "artificially contrived".

1 Cor. 12:28 – God Himself appoints the various positions of authority within the Church. As a loving Father, God gives His children the freedom and authority to act with charity and justice to bring about His work of salvation.

Eph. 4:11 – the Church is hierarchical and includes apostles, prophets, pastors, and teachers, all charged to build up the Church. The Church is not an invisible entity with an invisible foundation. It is not, as you say, "artificially contrived".

Phil. 1:1 – Paul addresses the bishops and deacons of the Church. They can all trace their unbroken lineage back to the apostles.

1 Tim. 3:1; Titus 1:7 – Christ’s Church has bishops (“episkopoi”) who are direct successors of the apostles. The bishops can trace the authority conferred upon them back to the apostles. It is not, as you say, "artificially contrived".

1 Tim. 5:17; Titus 1:5; James 5:14 – Christ’s Church also has elders or priests (“presbyteroi”) who serve the bishops. It is not, as you say, "artificially contrived".

1 Tim. 3:8 – Christ’s Church also has deacons (“diakonoi”). Thus, Jesus Christ’s Church has a hierarchy of authority – bishops, priests and deacons, who can all trace their lineage back to Peter and the apostles. It is not, as you say, "artificially contrived".

Exodus 28:1 and 19:6 – shows the three offices of the Old Testament priesthood
(1). high priest – Aaron (Ex. 28:1);
(2). Ministerial priests – Aaron’s sons (Ex. 19:6; 28:1); and
(3). Universal priests – Israel (Ex. 19:6).
The New Testament priesthood also has three offices:
(1) High Priest – Jesus Christ (Heb. 3:1);
(2) Ministerial priests – the ordained bishops and priests (Rom. 15:16; 1 Tim. 3:1,8; 5:17; Titus 1:7); and
(3) Universal priests – all the baptized (1 Pet. 2:5,9; Rev. 1:6).

They are not, as you say, "artificially contrived". I have a theory about anti-authority and anti-institutional Christians (who abandon Jesus in the Eucharist). They often come from dysfunctional families. Good Christian boys and girls can't hate their parents, and when they reach the ripe old age of 15 when they think they know everything, they rebel against an existential image of authority, the Catholic Church. So fundamentalism is attractive because it gives them security and meets deep seated emotional needs. They are also fed with false caricatures of how wrong the Catholic Church is. Sometimes, they take these false caricatures into a discussion board, thinking they have a valid argument based on emotion, not facts.

As the scriptures say, you need ears to hear what the Spirit is saying....you need the Spirit to understand what the Spirit is saying.

Catholicism is forever justifying why she violates the commands of God and Christ. Just like the serpent at the Tree. "Hath God really said....? Don't you know He really knows it's good for you to do the opposite of what He says?" We need to simply do what He says, and stop rationalizing our way around His simple commands.

 

[theefaith]

It’s a covenant not a Bible study!


Christ instituted the holy church for the salvation of all men, (repent and believe the gospel, with the institution of the sacraments to convey grace to sanctify souls!


Effects of faith & baptism!

Ez 36:25-27 washed in baptism, with a new heart and the Spirit
Jn 3:5 born again in baptism
Mk 16:16 faith & baptist
Acts 2:38 repentance & baptism
Acts 8:36-38 faith & baptism
Acts 22:16 baptism washes away sin
Rom 6:3 died with Christ
Col 2:12 risen with Christ
1 cor 12:13 baptized into the church
Gal 3:27 by baptism put on Christ
2 Tim 1:10 brought to life
2 cor 5:17 new creation
Eph 1:13 sealed by the Holy Spirit
Eph 2:1&5 brought to life in baptism
Eph 4:5 one baptism
Eph 5:26 faith and baptism
Titus 3:5 baptismal regeneration
1 pet 1:2 washed in Christ’s blood
1 pet 2:9 and not the kingdom of light
1 pet 3:20-21 baptism saves us!

“Faith alone” accomplishes nothing!
1 cor 13:2 even all faith (alone) without charity avails NOTHING!!!

Faith and baptism!

Scripture says none of the things about “Faith alone”!

2 Peter 1:11
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

The Christian sacrament of baptism is the Initiation into the new covenant and must be ministered to you by the apostles!




“Faith alone”

Questions

where does scripture says we have died with Christ by “faith alone”?

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

where does scripture say we are members of Christ and his church by “faith alone”?

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

where does scripture says we put on Christ by “faith alone”?

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Where does scripture say our sins are washed away by “faith alone”?

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

where does scripture say we are saved or justified by “faith alone”?

1 pet 3:21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!

The only reference in scripture to “faith alone” is James 2:24 NOT BY “FAITH ALONE”?

2 pet 1: 11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.

How can you enter by your own if it must be ministered to you? Baptism is done unto you, “not do it yourself by faith alone”

Jn 3:5 born again by faith alone?

Where is “Accept Christ as your personal lord & savior” is found in scripture?

They did not go preaching this line but went immediately to the river and baptized Jn 3:22

Acts 22:16
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Eph 4:5 one baptism

Why don’t it say one teeny tiny little act of “faith alone”???

When we first believed we are saved?

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

How can salvation be nearer than when we first believed if you’re saved by believing?

1 pet 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Matt 24:13 endures to the end Shall be saved.

How can salvation happen when we first believed if it’s the end?

If salvation is by “faith alone” then faith would be the greatest!
1 cor 13:13 charity is the greatest!

Even all faith much less “faith alone” without charity avails nothing!
1 cor 13:2


the apostles are given the new covenant kingdom

Prophecy of the new covenant and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof. (The new covenant church) Jn 15:1-5

Dan 2: 44 And in the days of these kings (Roman Caesars) shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.

Isaiah 2:2
And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

Micah 4:1
But in the last days it shall come to pass, that the mountain of the house of the Lord shall be established in the top of the mountains, and it shall be exalted above the hills; and people shall flow unto it.

Daniel 7:18
But the saints of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom for ever, even for ever and ever.

Lk 1:32 He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest: and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33 And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

Lk 22:29 And I appoint unto you a kingdom, as my Father hath appointed unto me;

Heb 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,

23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,

28 Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear:

Matthew 5:14
Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Matt 21:43 taken from Israel given to Peter and the apostles Matt 16:18-19 18:18 Jn 20:21 eph 2:20


1 Peter 4:11
If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Jude 1:8
Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion, and speak evil of dignities.

Jude 1:25
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.

Christ is king and has all authority and dominion!

Christ appointed Peter, the apostles, and their successors to govern the church and administer the kingdom until He returns in glory!

Submission and obedience to them is submission and obedience to Christ!

Like Joseph under pharaoh the king and his brothers bowed in obedience to Him as God willed!

But Protestant fundamentalists will not, for satan the first Protestant was in rebellion against God saying: I will not serve! I will not obey!

So who is you’re leader?

All those who submit and obey are Christ’s!

Those who do not are satan’s!

Hierarchical authority of the saints!
Or
Spiritual anarchy of the heretics!

what’ll it be?

 

[BreadOfLife]

And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; [21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: [22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.


And all this time you thought it said this...


And are built upon the foundation of COMMENTARY AND DOGMA, THE POPE himself being the chief corner stone; [21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: [22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Another epic FAIL.

YOU falsely claimed that “ALL of the Apostles" validated Sola Scriptura.
I asked you for a SINGLE verse – and you collapsed like a house of cards.

Don’t make claims you CAN’T back up.
Don’t you ever get tiref of being publicly exposed for lying?

Rev. 21:8
"But as for the cowardly, the faithless, the detestable, as for murderers, the sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and ALL LIARS, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”

 

[Marymog]

You RCCers teach that you can add to scripture.

That's easy to see.

You added doctrines and dogmas to the 27 books of the NT that can match the amount of the civil laws of the USA.

Crazy stuff.

Lol…sure, if you say so. And you are still bloviating.

Are you going to prove to me that the early church had a list of books that they considered Scripture or are you going to continue to dodge and bloviat?

Patient Mary

 

[Marymog]

As I said you need ears


As the scriptures say, you need ears to hear what the Spirit is saying....you need the Spirit to understand what the Spirit is saying.

Catholicism is forever justifying why she violates the commands of God and Christ. Just like the serpent at the Tree. "Hath God really said....? Don't you know He really knows it's good for you to do the opposite of what He says?" We need to simply do what He says, and stop rationalizing our way around His simple commands.

hmmmm…..so only Catholics don’t have the ears to hear or the Spirit to understand? Then why are you Protestants not only telling us catholics we are wrong but tell each other you are wrong when they don’t agree with YOU?

Curious Mary

 

[theefaith]

The church is well ordered by God in Christ with the Holy Spirit and angels!

Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Matt 16:18-19 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matt 28:19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Jn 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Acts 8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.

Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ….

 

[Illuminator]

As I said you need ears

As the scriptures say, you need ears to hear what the Spirit is saying....you need the Spirit to understand what the Spirit is saying.

Catholicism is forever justifying why she violates the commands of God and Christ. Just like the serpent at the Tree. "Hath God really said....? Don't you know He really knows it's good for you to do the opposite of what He says?" We need to simply do what He says, and stop rationalizing our way around His simple commands.

This does not address anything in my post, it is an emotional reaction because your fundie group has no deacons, priests or bishops. Most anti-institution bible clubs can't even organize an inner city soup kitchen. Manifesting gifts does not give an individual the right to over-ride 2000 years of authoritive, consistent teaching.

 

[Philip James]

is about the descendants of the Jews, not the newborn Jewish infants

Infants aren't descendents?

Do you realltv think our Father wants us to leave our children in darkness?

Or is it not, rather, that He will indeed answer the prayers of His people and grant the Light of Christ to our children?

Pax et Bonum