Intimacy with the LORD.

[VictoryinJesus]

Intimacy with the LORD. Instead of a thread speaking on our own intimacy: whether we are intimate with the LORD, or whether we are not intimate with the LORD. I’m asking for you to consider The LORD being intimate with Paul. So much so that for the longest time, and maybe still, I assumed the Lord literally was made visible to Paul. for example when the Lord stood by Paul on the ship and told Paul where to go. Also on the road to Damascus, the conversation of “Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me?” And another I’ll include later where Paul mentions all men had left but the Lord stood with Paul. Conversations. Another that comes to mind is Moses…who, as if seeing Him who is invisible, …forsakes Egypt considering the reproach of Christ to be greater riches.

The verse of the day was in Proverbs.
when you lie down you will not be afraid.
When you lie down, your sleep will be sweet.

do not be afraid of sudden fear
Nor of the onslaught of the wicked when it comes,

don’t say to your neighbor “Go and come back, and tomorrow (today is Salvation)
and I will give [it]
When you have it with you.

Don’t devise harm against your neighbor,
While he lives securely beside you.

don’t contend with a man without cause, if he has done you no harm.

do not envy a man of violence.
And do not choose any of his ways.

for the devious are an abomination to the LORD. But He is intimate with the upright.
^this makes me consider Saul/Paul. How Saul had done much harm…didn’t Paul admit the harm he did in persecution of the body of Jesus Christ? Yet, all the passages of the LORD being intimate with Paul. Conversation. Help. Deliverance.

I’m not really sure about that word “harm”. There are so many that says if God is with us, who can harm us? Or the verse “wise as serpents, but harmless as doves”. One that stands out to me is where talks Paul talks about the coppersmith that did him much harm.

Strong's Hebrew: 5154. נְחוּשָׁה (nechushah) -- copper, bronze
Which, with the coppersmith, an weapon comes to mind. Like in “any weapon formed against you will not prosper”

the verse I was meaning earlier in this post concerning the intimacy of the LORD with Paul. …to me compliments Proverbs 3:26 For the Lord shall be thy confidence, and shall keep thy foot from being taken.

Then Paul speaking about: Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds.
Be on guard against him yourself (1 Peter 4:1-2) for he vigorously opposed our teaching.
At my first defense
No one supported me, but all deserted me,
May it not be counted against them.

Proverbs 3:26 For the Lord shall be thy confidence, and shall keep thy foot from being taken.​

But the Lord stood with me and strengthened me,
So that through me the proclamation might be fully accomplished, and that the gentiles might hear.
And I was rescued out of the lions mouth.
The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed, and will bring me safely to His heavenly kingdom, to Him [be]glory forever, and ever. Amen.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Intimacy with the LORD. Instead of a thread speaking on our own intimacy: whether we are intimate with the LORD, or whether we are not intimate with the LORD. I’m asking for you to consider The LORD being intimate with Paul. So much so that for the longest time, and maybe still, I assumed the Lord literally was made visible to Paul. for example when the Lord stood by Paul on the ship and told Paul where to go. Also on the road to Damascus, the conversation of “Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me?” And another I’ll include later where Paul mentions all men had left but the Lord stood with Paul. Conversations. Another that comes to mind is Moses…who, as if seeing Him who is invisible, …forsakes Egypt considering the reproach of Christ to be greater riches.

The verse of the day was in Proverbs.
when you lie down you will not be afraid.
When you lie down, your sleep will be sweet.

do not be afraid of sudden fear
Nor of the onslaught of the wicked when it comes,

don’t say to your neighbor “Go and come back, and tomorrow (today is Salvation)
and I will give [it]
When you have it with you.

Don’t devise harm against your neighbor,
While he lives securely beside you.

don’t contend with a man without cause, if he has done you no harm.

do not envy a man of violence.
And do not choose any of his ways.

for the devious are an abomination to the LORD. But He is intimate with the upright.
^this makes me consider Saul/Paul. How Saul had done much harm…didn’t Paul admit the harm he did in persecution of the body of Jesus Christ? Yet, all the passages of the LORD being intimate with Paul. Conversation. Help. Deliverance.

I’m not really sure about that word “harm”. There are so many that says if God is with us, who can harm us? Or the verse “wise as serpents, but harmless as doves”. One that stands out to me is where talks Paul talks about the coppersmith that did him much harm.

Strong's Hebrew: 5154. נְחוּשָׁה (nechushah) -- copper, bronze
Which, with the coppersmith, an weapon comes to mind. Like in “any weapon formed against you will not prosper”

the verse I was meaning earlier in this post concerning the intimacy of the LORD with Paul. …to me compliments Proverbs 3:26 For the Lord shall be thy confidence, and shall keep thy foot from being taken.

Then Paul speaking about: Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds.
Be on guard against him yourself (1 Peter 4:1-2) for he vigorously opposed our teaching.
At my first defense
No one supported me, but all deserted me,
May it not be counted against them.

Proverbs 3:26 For the Lord shall be thy confidence, and shall keep thy foot from being taken.​

But the Lord stood with me and strengthened me,
So that through me the proclamation might be fully accomplished, and that the gentiles might hear.
And I was rescued out of the lions mouth.
The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed, and will bring me safely to His heavenly kingdom, to Him [be]glory forever, and ever. Amen.

Why do you think Jesus chose Paul Vicky?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Why do you think Jesus chose Paul Vicky?

Right before 1 Timothy 1:16 Paul said he was chief of sinners…now that I think about Paul as “chief of sinners”, Saul also was a Pharisee. Did Paul mean he was chief of sinners alone, or that he ranked over as a chief of Pharisees? So there could be many reasons that (Imo) God choose Paul but all point to God’s Grace and Mercy and forgiveness in reconciliation unto Himself.

1) God choose Paul and not Saul, to set for the example “you must be born again”. For God chooses “a new creature” in Spirit and truth, created anew after God and not after man.

2) God choose Paul to set forth “with men it is impossible, with God all things are possible”; even one who the coats of those who stoned Stephen calling on the Lord were laid at the young Sauls’ feet

3) Paul says why in “However for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

to me that “I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all long suffering…for a pattern…Romans 9:22-23 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: [23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


(Imo) Saul was the vessel of wrath fitted for destruction…which to make know His power and a pattern of long-suffering (to all those that follow after) God endured with long-suffering a vessel of wrath fitted for destruction “Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me.”?

That He might make known the riches of His Glory on the vessels of mercy which He before prepared unto Glory …where Saul was a vessel of wrath fitted for destruction…Paul is a vessel of Mercy before prepared unto Glory. To me, Paul says this also over and over in not misusing the Grace given unto him for destruction, but for edification because edification is what Mercy does. A pattern …to me is the long-suffering of God who raises the dead. How this applies as a pattern to those that follow after? There is a vessel of wrath fitted for destruction …and a vessel before prepared unto Christ to obtain Mercy. “You must be born again”, as “where some of you” (wrath fitted for destruction), but now “you have obtained mercy”; be not high-minded as if God doesn’t by His own power “raise the dead”, are you not out from the long-suffering of God who endured the vessel of wrath fitted for destruction, to make His power known on vessels of Mercy? Why do you think you are better than your brother …when you were once the same without God?

4) God choose Paul as the example that God is able to raise the dead.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Right before 1 Timothy 1:16 Paul said he was chief of sinners…now that I think about Paul as “chief of sinners”, Saul also was a Pharisee. Did Paul mean he was chief of sinners alone, or that he ranked over as a chief of Pharisees? So there could be many reasons that (Imo) God choose Paul but all point to God’s Grace and Mercy and forgiveness in reconciliation unto Himself.

1) God choose Paul and not Saul, to set for the example “you must be born again”. For God chooses “a new creature” in Spirit and truth, created anew after God and not after man.

2) God choose Paul to set forth “with men it is impossible, with God all things are possible”; even one who the coats of those who stoned Stephen calling on the Lord were laid at the young Sauls’ feet

3) Paul says why in “However for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

to me that “I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show forth all long suffering…for a pattern…Romans 9:22-23 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: [23] And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,


(Imo) Saul was the vessel of wrath fitted for destruction…which to make know His power and a pattern of long-suffering (to all those that follow after) God endured with long-suffering a vessel of wrath fitted for destruction “Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me.”?

That He might make known the riches of His Glory on the vessels of mercy which He before prepared unto Glory …where Saul was a vessel of wrath fitted for destruction…Paul is a vessel of Mercy before prepared unto Glory. To me, Paul says this also over and over in not misusing the Grace given unto him for destruction, but for edification because edification is what Mercy does. A pattern …to me is the long-suffering of God who raises the dead. How this applies as a pattern to those that follow after? There is a vessel of wrath fitted for destruction …and a vessel before prepared unto Christ to obtain Mercy. “You must be born again”, as “where some of you” (wrath fitted for destruction), but now “you have obtained mercy”; be not high-minded as if God doesn’t by His own power “raise the dead”, are you not out from the long-suffering of God who endured the vessel of wrath fitted for destruction, to make His power known on vessels of Mercy? Why do you think you are better than your brother …when you were once the same without God?

4) God choose Paul as the example that God is able to raise the dead.

It was because of his heart maam. Paul was a Pharisee as you said, a leader in the faith. He was extremely zealous, even gathering up Jesus' disciples those he perceived to be apostates, enemies to the faith to bring them to justice. Because of his honest desire to serve God, that is the reason Jesus selected Paul, and made him the apostle to the nations. He proved to be exemplary in that assignment as well. We do well to learn from his example, if we learn we are going the wrong way, we need to correct course, and press on to maturity.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It was because of his heart maam.

if his heart was not weak, then why did he need a New Heart?

 

[VictoryinJesus]

It was because of his heart maam. Paul was a Pharisee as you said, a leader in the faith. He was extremely zealous, even gathering up Jesus' disciples those he perceived to be apostates, enemies to the faith to bring them to justice. Because of his honest desire to serve God, that is the reason Jesus selected Paul, and made him the apostle to the nations. He proved to be exemplary in that assignment as well. We do well to learn from his example, if we learn we are going the wrong way, we need to correct course, and press on to maturity.

revisting this morning what you shared. Can you share what verses tell you that Saul/Paul was chosen because of his heart?

I went back myself to see where the word says it was Saul/Paul’s heart, to see why you think this. You may be right. Because I’ve had those same ideas. for example I’ve always considered others, I’ve always listened to others and let them tell me what to think and what to do and what to say… maybe that made me a good student or pupil always needing someone to lead me about …and that is why God loved me and died for me. But that isn’t what I hear in the word though…there is a difference (Imo) between submission to get what you selfishly want and desire (to avoid any kind of suffering or loss) so you fold…and the submission God asks for.

concerning Saul/Paul …I can see why you would suggest it was his heart and faithfulness because of 1 Timothy 1 “I thank Christ Jesus, who enable me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me in the ministry.”

I have an odd view on who would take one who hasn’t been faithful in the least, and give him more. God would. (Imo). I suggest this because it is based off God’s Faithfulness, and that Faithfulness when God could promise by no other, promised in Himself. Because Saul/ Paul goes on after thanking Christ Jesus for his being counted worthy and Faithful …to “This is a Faithful saying, worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus come into the world to save sinners, of who I am chief.

…further on in 1 Timothy “instruction in love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere Faith (in Christ). Personally, to me, it was a heart issue …and Saul/ Paul is not instructing that his heart was fine. Personally, I don’t see Saul as having a pure heart. I don’t see Saul as having a good conscience. Or a sincere faith. If there was no problem with the first, then why did Christ Jesus come to establish the second? Now Paul… I do see Paul as having a pure heart. I do see Paul as having a good conscience. And an sincere Faith.


My husband was reading a passage out loud this morning. It was from the Old Testament. I’m in no way suggesting there is a connection to Paul, but to me it does help.

Deuteronomy 32
But jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked. You are waxen fat, you are grown thick, you are covered with fatness; then you forsook God which made you, and lightly esteemed the Rock of your salvation.

wherefore kick you at My offering…
To make yourself fat with the chiefest of Israel My people.

To me it helps with Christ Jesus telling Paul he kicks against the pricks. Could Christ Jesus being telling “Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me” ; Saul, Saul, you have waxen fat with the chiefest? And have forsook your God, and lightly esteemed the Rock of your salvation? …that from the OT was concerning Jeshurun. but how often have the fat waxed fatter, how often has fatness covered and God has been forgotten, forsook, and God lightly esteemed? Still I think Saul/Paul was chosen,
not because of the former things, but to reveal God’s power of the circumcision of Christ (the removing of the vail) in the Heart. Paul referred to being taught by the Revelation of Jesus Christ; not given by men but given of God.

 

[Robert Gwin]

if his heart was not weak, then why did he need a New Heart?

Where did it say Paul needed a new heart Vicky? Jesus selected him because of his heart maam. I might add, he chose correctly, Paul was a major player, quite likely the most successful apostle, if you actually wanted to measure success.

 

[Robert Gwin]

revisting this morning what you shared. Can you share what verses tell you that Saul/Paul was chosen because of his heart?

I went back myself to see where the word says it was Saul/Paul’s heart, to see why you think this. You may be right. Because I’ve had those same ideas. for example I’ve always considered others, I’ve always listened to others and let them tell me what to think and what to do and what to say… maybe that made me a good student or pupil always needing someone to lead me about …and that is why God loved me and died for me. But that isn’t what I hear in the word though…there is a difference (Imo) between submission to get what you selfishly want and desire (to avoid any kind of suffering or loss) so you fold…and the submission God asks for.

concerning Saul/Paul …I can see why you would suggest it was his heart and faithfulness because of 1 Timothy 1 “I thank Christ Jesus, who enable me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me in the ministry.”

I have an odd view on who would take one who hasn’t been faithful in the least, and give him more. God would. (Imo). I suggest this because it is based off God’s Faithfulness, and that Faithfulness when God could promise by no other, promised in Himself. Because Saul/ Paul goes on after thanking Christ Jesus for his being counted worthy and Faithful …to “This is a Faithful saying, worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus come into the world to save sinners, of who I am chief.

…further on in 1 Timothy “instruction in love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere Faith (in Christ). Personally, to me, it was a heart issue …and Saul/ Paul is not instructing that his heart was fine. Personally, I don’t see Saul as having a pure heart. I don’t see Saul as having a good conscience. Or a sincere faith. If there was no problem with the first, then why did Christ Jesus come to establish the second? Now Paul… I do see Paul as having a pure heart. I do see Paul as having a good conscience. And an sincere Faith.


My husband was reading a passage out loud this morning. It was from the Old Testament. I’m in no way suggesting there is a connection to Paul, but to me it does help.

Deuteronomy 32
But jeshurun waxed fat, and kicked. You are waxen fat, you are grown thick, you are covered with fatness; then you forsook God which made you, and lightly esteemed the Rock of your salvation.

wherefore kick you at My offering…
To make yourself fat with the chiefest of Israel My people.

To me it helps with Christ Jesus telling Paul he kicks against the pricks. Could Christ Jesus being telling “Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me” ; Saul, Saul, you have waxen fat with the chiefest? And have forsook your God, and lightly esteemed the Rock of your salvation? …that from the OT was concerning Jeshurun. but how often have the fat waxed fatter, how often has fatness covered and God has been forgotten, forsook, and God lightly esteemed? Still I think Saul/Paul was chosen,
not because of the former things, but to reveal God’s power of the circumcision of Christ (the removing of the vail) in the Heart. Paul referred to being taught by the Revelation of Jesus Christ; not given by men but given of God.

As far as I know Vicky, the Bible does not come right out and say Paul was chosen because of his heart. I stated an opinion maam, and I think it is simply common sense don't you? Paul certainly was not chosen because of his actions, he was literally persecuting Jesus' disciples. So much so that Jesus personally asked him why are you persecuting me? So why would Jesus choose someone who was his enemy? The clear answer is that Paul was misdirected in his understanding. Jesus knew his heart was in the right place, and no I don't mean his blood pumper literally, rather his inner makeup, he truly believed he was serving God in the way He desired, so when Jesus selected him, he knew that Paul was the right candidate. And his selection definitely proved to be correct. Next to Jesus I don't think anyone sacrificed so much to serve God. Look at some things Paul endured as a Christian: (2 Corinthians 11:23-29) . . .Are they ministers of Christ? I reply like a madman, I am more outstandingly one: I have done more work, been imprisoned more often, suffered countless beatings, and experienced many near-deaths. 24 Five times I received 40 strokes less one from the Jews, 25 three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I experienced shipwreck, a night and a day I have spent in the open sea; 26 in journeys often, in dangers from rivers, in dangers from robbers, in dangers from my own people, in dangers from the nations, in dangers in the city, in dangers in the wilderness, in dangers at sea, in dangers among false brothers, 27 in labor and toil, in sleepless nights often, in hunger and thirst, frequently without food, in cold and lacking clothing. 28 Besides those things of an external kind, there is what rushes in on me from day to day: the anxiety for all the congregations. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is stumbled, and I am not incensed?

Jesus sees the heart, he knew Paul was the best selection, and history proves it. Paul is a fine example for us to imitate.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Where did it say Paul needed a new heart Vicky?

Was Saul/Paul an Israelite?
Was Saul/Paul a Jew?
Was Saul/Paul of the house of Israel?
Was he a Pharisee?
was he chiefest among men?

Ezekiel 36:22-33 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God ; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which you have profaned among the heathen, whither you went. [23] And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which you have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen (I’m sending you to the gentiles Paul) shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

[24] For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you (that you may have hope, those that sleep in Christ, he will bring with him also with those who are alive and remain) into your own land. 2 Timothy 4:18 and (He will)preserve me unto His heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.


[25] Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. [26] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. [27] And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them.

28] And you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you shall be my people, and I will be your God. [29] I will also save you from all your uncleannesses (the Lord delivered me out from every evil, and will continue to do so); and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

[30] And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, (until Christ be formed in you) and the increase of the field, that you shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

[31] Then shall you remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

2 Corinthians 12:20-21 For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults: [21] And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.​

[32] Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord God, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. [33] Thus saith the Lord God ; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.


I’m not sure how we can say Paul isn’t included in God’s fulfillment of “the wastes shall be builded” by the Revelation of Jesus Christ. To me, that would include Peter, all the disciples, and the apostle Paul …that ALL are in need of a new heart, and a new Spirit. For example “when you are converted Peter. Strengthen your brothers.” But Paul openly spoke on the ministration given unto Him, not to misuse the Grace for tearing down …but for the building up (of the Body). For Edification. For rebuilding in Christ.
“…and the wastes shall be builded.”
Isaiah 58:11-12 And the Lord shall guide thee continually (consider the intimate guidance in “however the Lord stood by me, when no man stood with me), and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and you shall be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

John 7:37-38 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. [38] He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said (it will come to pass), out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
John 19:33-35 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his (bones)legs: [34] But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. [35] And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that you might believe.​

[12] And they that shall be of thee (Christ) shall build the old waste places: you shall raise up (unto Life) the foundations of many generations; and you will be called, (The Son in whom I am well pleased. This is My Son, hear Him.) The repairer of the breach, The restorer (to build up, even though our outward man perishes, the inward man is renewed day to day) of paths to dwell in.

they that shall be of Christ, where the Spirit is there is Life, will build the old waste places: you shall raise up (unto Life) the foundations of many generations… “be careful how you build on this foundation, for no other foundation can man lay then the foundation which is Christ). Paul referred to Saul as the waster…persecuting Christ Jesus…full of destruction and tearing down…taking those bound to be judged of men. Then when converted asks those “do men not drag you before others to be judged”?

where does it say Saul needed a new heart?
I will remove the stone …and give you a new heart, and put a new spirit in you. Did that include “Saul” …if not, then why the need for “Paul”?

Consider the stone rolled away from the mouth of the tomb…what is called out from the tomb? What is removed, by what Lazarus revealed…
John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go,

John 14:28 You have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If you loved me, you would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father for I must go, awake Lazarus out of sleep) for my Father is greater than I.​

I go…
…that I may awake him (Lazarus) out of sleep. …take away the stone …Remove the covering over Lazarus face.

John 14:3-6 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there you may be also. [4] And whither I go you know, and the way you know. [5] Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not where you go; and how can we know the way? [6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 16:6-11 But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow has filled your heart. [7] Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you(I must go, wake up Lazarus); but if I depart, I will send him (the comforter) unto you. [8] And when he (awakened, for I go that he may come) is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [9] Of sin, because they believe not on me; [10] Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and you see me no more; [11] Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Martha (encumbered)… “take away the stone” John 11:39

John 11:41-44 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank You that You have heard me. [42] And I knew that You hear me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that You have sent me. [43] And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, (Gods Help) come forth. [44] And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. (By the circumcision, made not with hands, by the Spirit in Christ Jesus,—This is My Son, hear him—remove the vail covering Lazarus’s face) Jesus said unto them, Loose him, and let him (Lazarus) (God’s Help) go.


​

 

[amadeus]

Where did it say Paul needed a new heart Vicky? Jesus selected him because of his heart maam. I might add, he chose correctly, Paul was a major player, quite likely the most successful apostle, if you actually wanted to measure success.

Certainly God called Saul/Paul, but like each one of us that God calls some work needed to be done on the inside of that man:

"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized." Acts 9:17-18

And then each one of us...

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Rev 3:18

How did Paul attain to what God had for him to do in Christ?

How may we attain to what God has for us to do in Christ?

Could it have to do with continuous humble surrender?

 

[Robert Gwin]

Was Saul/Paul an Israelite?
Was Saul/Paul a Jew?
Was Saul/Paul of the house of Israel?
Was he a Pharisee?
was he chiefest among men?

Ezekiel 36:22-33 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord God ; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which you have profaned among the heathen, whither you went. [23] And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which you have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen (I’m sending you to the gentiles Paul) shall know that I am the Lord, saith the Lord God, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes.

[24] For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you (that you may have hope, those that sleep in Christ, he will bring with him also with those who are alive and remain) into your own land. 2 Timothy 4:18 and (He will)preserve me unto His heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.


[25] Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and you shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. [26] A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. [27] And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and you shall keep my judgments, and do them.

28] And you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you shall be my people, and I will be your God. [29] I will also save you from all your uncleannesses (the Lord delivered me out from every evil, and will continue to do so); and I will call for the corn, and will increase it, and lay no famine upon you.

[30] And I will multiply the fruit of the tree, (until Christ be formed in you) and the increase of the field, that you shall receive no more reproach of famine among the heathen.

[31] Then shall you remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall lothe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

2 Corinthians 12:20-21 For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults: [21] And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.​

[32] Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord God, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel. [33] Thus saith the Lord God ; In the day that I shall have cleansed you from all your iniquities I will also cause you to dwell in the cities, and the wastes shall be builded.


I’m not sure how we can say Paul isn’t included in God’s fulfillment of “the wastes shall be builded” by the Revelation of Jesus Christ. To me, that would include Peter, all the disciples, and the apostle Paul …that ALL are in need of a new heart, and a new Spirit. For example “when you are converted Peter. Strengthen your brothers.” But Paul openly spoke on the ministration given unto Him, not to misuse the Grace for tearing down …but for the building up (of the Body). For Edification. For rebuilding in Christ.
“…and the wastes shall be builded.”
Isaiah 58:11-12 And the Lord shall guide thee continually (consider the intimate guidance in “however the Lord stood by me, when no man stood with me), and satisfy your soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and you shall be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.

John 7:37-38 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. [38] He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said (it will come to pass), out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
John 19:33-35 But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his (bones)legs: [34] But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water. [35] And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true: and he knoweth that he saith true, that you might believe.​

[12] And they that shall be of thee (Christ) shall build the old waste places: you shall raise up (unto Life) the foundations of many generations; and you will be called, (The Son in whom I am well pleased. This is My Son, hear Him.) The repairer of the breach, The restorer (to build up, even though our outward man perishes, the inward man is renewed day to day) of paths to dwell in.

they that shall be of Christ, where the Spirit is there is Life, will build the old waste places: you shall raise up (unto Life) the foundations of many generations… “be careful how you build on this foundation, for no other foundation can man lay then the foundation which is Christ). Paul referred to Saul as the waster…persecuting Christ Jesus…full of destruction and tearing down…taking those bound to be judged of men. Then when converted asks those “do men not drag you before others to be judged”?

where does it say Saul needed a new heart?
I will remove the stone …and give you a new heart, and put a new spirit in you. Did that include “Saul” …if not, then why the need for “Paul”?

Consider the stone rolled away from the mouth of the tomb…what is called out from the tomb? What is removed, by what Lazarus revealed…
John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go,

John 14:28 You have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If you loved me, you would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father for I must go, awake Lazarus out of sleep) for my Father is greater than I.​

I go…
…that I may awake him (Lazarus) out of sleep. …take away the stone …Remove the covering over Lazarus face.

John 14:3-6 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there you may be also. [4] And whither I go you know, and the way you know. [5] Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not where you go; and how can we know the way? [6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 16:6-11 But because I have said these things unto you, sorrow has filled your heart. [7] Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you(I must go, wake up Lazarus); but if I depart, I will send him (the comforter) unto you. [8] And when he (awakened, for I go that he may come) is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [9] Of sin, because they believe not on me; [10] Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and you see me no more; [11] Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

Martha (encumbered)… “take away the stone” John 11:39

John 11:41-44 Then they took away the stone from the place where the dead was laid. And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I thank You that You have heard me. [42] And I knew that You hear me always: but because of the people which stand by I said it, that they may believe that You have sent me. [43] And when he thus had spoken, he cried with a loud voice, Lazarus, (Gods Help) come forth. [44] And he that was dead came forth, bound hand and foot with graveclothes: and his face was bound about with a napkin. (By the circumcision, made not with hands, by the Spirit in Christ Jesus,—This is My Son, hear him—remove the vail covering Lazarus’s face) Jesus said unto them, Loose him, and let him (Lazarus) (God’s Help) go.


​

I am sorry Vicky, I guess I am failing to get your point maam. Paul was an apostle, he was personally selected by Jesus, you know this correct? No doubt you recognize him as being a very strong Christian who lived the faith till his death. We believe Paul, as well as all the other apostles, with the exception of Judas of course, are alive in heaven right now, having part in the first resurrection. If we are not in agreement on this, please try to clarify what you are asking, and I will see if I can answer it to a more understandable degree. Sorry I am not grasping what you are asking.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Certainly God called Saul/Paul, but like each one of us that God calls some work needed to be done on the inside of that man:

"And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost.
And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized." Acts 9:17-18

And then each one of us...

"I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see." Rev 3:18

How did Paul attain to what God had for him to do in Christ?

How may we attain to what God has for us to do in Christ?

Could it have to do with continuous humble surrender?

Obedience is the key Amad. Allow God to use us in His service, by continuing to grow to maturity as Christians. When we dedicate ourselves to God, we sign on for an eternity.

 

[amadeus]

Obedience is the key Amad. Allow God to use us in His service, by continuing to grow to maturity as Christians. When we dedicate ourselves to God, we sign on for an eternity.

Yes, obedience is necessary but who or what are we to obey?

It is for this reason that long ago as God directed... I began to regularly go the lowest room striving to empty myself of all that I knew, held or believed, to surrender myself completely and to allow Him to lead me and reconfirm in me or change me or refill me according as He saw fit to do...

"But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:10-11

"... O my Father... not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:39

 

[VictoryinJesus]

I am sorry Vicky, I guess I am failing to get your point maam. Paul was an apostle, he was personally selected by Jesus, you know this correct? No doubt you recognize him as being a very strong Christian who lived the faith till his death. We believe Paul, as well as all the other apostles, with the exception of Judas of course, are alive in heaven right now, having part in the first resurrection. If we are not in agreement on this, please try to clarify what you are asking, and I will see if I can answer it to a more understandable degree. Sorry I am not grasping what you are asking.

it is ok. In the process of going back to answer your post on where I think God said Saul/Paul needed a new heart, I noticed for the first time “and the waste shall be builded”. To me, maybe wrong, but that connected “I will give you a new heart, and put a new spirit in you” to Saul/Paul by the Grace given unto to Paul; not for tearing down but for building up. Then somehow I ended up over where Christ Jesus called Lazarus to come forth out from the tomb. I wanted to write it down, mainly so I won’t forget it myself. To explain the best I can how, possibly, “I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you” ended up over at Lazarus being called forth from sleeping. To me, it is the heart. Where the stone covers, and is rolled away (removed) and New Life is called forth. I’ve been told that doesn’t apply to all, or to us, the removal of the stone over the ground because the Stoney ground, or stony heart, was to those under the law only. But that I disagree with because my heart has been stone before, where if anyone talked to me about God I would stick out my tongue and laugh, or roll my eyes. Where nothing about the word got in because my heart was hardness.

to be honest …not to knock Jehovah witnesses but I’m only sharing with you why I don’t go there. Saul/Paul is a good example because for me it is telling that in saying Saul was chosen for some good qualities he possessed is (Imo) suggesting it is based of Saul which is why Paul was chosen. To be blunt, when I read your earlier post about Saul and all the qualities that made God choose Saul based off Sauls heart…it reminded me of being told we can work hard enough and be good enough for God to notice and pick us for the Kingdom. I’m sorry but I don’t see that …I’m not knocking Paul either because while reading of Saul and then Paul; undeniably there is a serious transformation from Saul unto Paul. So I’m not saying Saul/Paul is not a good example, but The opposite as an example of the transforming power of God who endures hardness.(who even Paul said, endure hardness as a good soldier of Christ) Consider the hardness of the ground In the parable…the Stoney ground endures for a time yet when persecution arises for the sake of the word they fall away. You asked …where does it say Saul/Paul needed a new heart? Another place is the parable of the Stoney ground …where there has to be good ground and to me this is where God gives a new heart, and puts a new spirit in you. Paul spoke of this new spirit in “God has not given us a spirit of fear again unto bondage. But the spirit of power, of love, and of a sound mind” and “and God has not given the spirit of the world. But the Spirit which is of God that we might know the things freely given unto us.”

 

[VictoryinJesus]

Then somehow I ended up over where Christ Jesus called Lazarus to come forth out from the tomb. I wanted to write it down, mainly so I won’t forget it myself.

John 11:9-11 Jesus answered, Are there not twelve hours in the day? If any man walk in the day, he stumbles not, because he sees the light of this world. [10] But if a man walk in the night, he stumbles, because there is no light in him. [11] These things said he: and after that he said unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleeps; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.

Psalm 44:21-26 Shall not God search this out? for he knows the secrets of the heart. [22] Yea, for your sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter. [23] Awake, why sleep You, O Lord? arise, cast us not off for ever. [24] Wherefore hide you Your face, and forget our affliction and our oppression? [25] For our soul is bowed down to the dust: our belly cleaves unto the earth. [26] Arise for our help, and redeem us for Your mercies' sake.

“I must go”
That the comforter (Help) come
Lazarus sleeps; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
Your heart is filled with sorrow. You should rejoice in that “I go”, for if “I go”, the comforter comes. You will have joy, no man takes from you.

 

[Robert Gwin]

Yes, obedience is necessary but who or what are we to obey?

It is for this reason that long ago as God directed... I began to regularly go the lowest room striving to empty myself of all that I knew, held or believed, to surrender myself completely and to allow Him to lead me and reconfirm in me or change me or refill me according as He saw fit to do...

"But when thou art bidden, go and sit down in the lowest room; that when he that bade thee cometh, he may say unto thee, Friend, go up higher: then shalt thou have worship in the presence of them that sit at meat with thee.
For whosoever exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted." Luke 14:10-11

"... O my Father... not as I will, but as thou wilt." Matt 26:39

There is a chain of command among God's people as there has been since the time we became His people. The highest is Jehovah, followed by Jesus, but now let me ask you, do you believe the assigned faithful slave exists? If you do, then what is our responsibility to them sir? Do we obey or have no responsibility toward them?

 

[Raccoon1010]

Intimacy with the LORD. Instead of a thread speaking on our own intimacy: whether we are intimate with the LORD, or whether we are not intimate with the LORD. I’m asking for you to consider The LORD being intimate with Paul. So much so that for the longest time, and maybe still, I assumed the Lord literally was made visible to Paul. for example when the Lord stood by Paul on the ship and told Paul where to go. Also on the road to Damascus, the conversation of “Saul, Saul why do you persecute Me?” And another I’ll include later where Paul mentions all men had left but the Lord stood with Paul. Conversations. Another that comes to mind is Moses…who, as if seeing Him who is invisible, …forsakes Egypt considering the reproach of Christ to be greater riches.

The verse of the day was in Proverbs.
when you lie down you will not be afraid.
When you lie down, your sleep will be sweet.

do not be afraid of sudden fear
Nor of the onslaught of the wicked when it comes,

don’t say to your neighbor “Go and come back, and tomorrow (today is Salvation)
and I will give [it]
When you have it with you.

Don’t devise harm against your neighbor,
While he lives securely beside you.

don’t contend with a man without cause, if he has done you no harm.

do not envy a man of violence.
And do not choose any of his ways.

for the devious are an abomination to the LORD. But He is intimate with the upright.
^this makes me consider Saul/Paul. How Saul had done much harm…didn’t Paul admit the harm he did in persecution of the body of Jesus Christ? Yet, all the passages of the LORD being intimate with Paul. Conversation. Help. Deliverance.

I’m not really sure about that word “harm”. There are so many that says if God is with us, who can harm us? Or the verse “wise as serpents, but harmless as doves”. One that stands out to me is where talks Paul talks about the coppersmith that did him much harm.

Strong's Hebrew: 5154. נְחוּשָׁה (nechushah) -- copper, bronze
Which, with the coppersmith, an weapon comes to mind. Like in “any weapon formed against you will not prosper”

the verse I was meaning earlier in this post concerning the intimacy of the LORD with Paul. …to me compliments Proverbs 3:26 For the Lord shall be thy confidence, and shall keep thy foot from being taken.

Then Paul speaking about: Alexander the coppersmith did me much harm; the Lord will repay him according to his deeds.
Be on guard against him yourself (1 Peter 4:1-2) for he vigorously opposed our teaching.
At my first defense
No one supported me, but all deserted me,
May it not be counted against them.

Proverbs 3:26 For the Lord shall be thy confidence, and shall keep thy foot from being taken.​

But the Lord stood with me and strengthened me,
So that through me the proclamation might be fully accomplished, and that the gentiles might hear.
And I was rescued out of the lions mouth.
The Lord will rescue me from every evil deed, and will bring me safely to His heavenly kingdom, to Him [be]glory forever, and ever. Amen.

I think the Holy Spirit resides with us, and even more so the more we refrain from sin. And even more so when we do the good works of serving our neighbors.

And I think with the Lord being gone to a distant land, the Holy Spirit is how he reaches us all.

But I don't focus on intimacy with the Lord so much as trying to obey the commandments. I enjoy time with the spirit, and the spirit always encourages me with Love and Peace and other good feelings that are lovely and pleasant (Galatians 5:22-23).

And I noticed some threads from people that were overly consumed with hearing from the Lord. And that can open the Pandora's box of spirits claiming to be from God and some perhaps are and some might not be. 1 John 4:1-5.

I think if we are focused instead with service to the Lord thru ministry, charity, obeying the commandments, etc, and spend our time wisely, then intimacy will come. God loves us and will not forsake us.

Hebrews 13:5

5 Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have. For He Himself has said, “I will never leave you nor forsake you.”

 

[Robert Gwin]

it is ok. In the process of going back to answer your post on where I think God said Saul/Paul needed a new heart, I noticed for the first time “and the waste shall be builded”. To me, maybe wrong, but that connected “I will give you a new heart, and put a new spirit in you” to Saul/Paul by the Grace given unto to Paul; not for tearing down but for building up. Then somehow I ended up over where Christ Jesus called Lazarus to come forth out from the tomb. I wanted to write it down, mainly so I won’t forget it myself. To explain the best I can how, possibly, “I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you” ended up over at Lazarus being called forth from sleeping. To me, it is the heart. Where the stone covers, and is rolled away (removed) and New Life is called forth. I’ve been told that doesn’t apply to all, or to us, the removal of the stone over the ground because the Stoney ground, or stony heart, was to those under the law only. But that I disagree with because my heart has been stone before, where if anyone talked to me about God I would stick out my tongue and laugh, or roll my eyes. Where nothing about the word got in because my heart was hardness.

to be honest …not to knock Jehovah witnesses but I’m only sharing with you why I don’t go there. Saul/Paul is a good example because for me it is telling that in saying Saul was chosen for some good qualities he possessed is (Imo) suggesting it is based of Saul which is why Paul was chosen. To be blunt, when I read your earlier post about Saul and all the qualities that made God choose Saul based off Sauls heart…it reminded me of being told we can work hard enough and be good enough for God to notice and pick us for the Kingdom. I’m sorry but I don’t see that …I’m not knocking Paul either because while reading of Saul and then Paul; undeniably there is a serious transformation from Saul unto Paul. So I’m not saying Saul/Paul is not a good example, but The opposite as an example of the transforming power of God who endures hardness.(who even Paul said, endure hardness as a good soldier of Christ) Consider the hardness of the ground In the parable…the Stoney ground endures for a time yet when persecution arises for the sake of the word they fall away. You asked …where does it say Saul/Paul needed a new heart? Another place is the parable of the Stoney ground …where there has to be good ground and to me this is where God gives a new heart, and puts a new spirit in you. Paul spoke of this new spirit in “God has not given us a spirit of fear again unto bondage. But the spirit of power, of love, and of a sound mind” and “and God has not given the spirit of the world. But the Spirit which is of God that we might know the things freely given unto us.”

Aah Vicky! I understand your thinking on the subject much better now. All of us who become Christians change maam. Depending on the degree of how much we were in the world, giving us a new heart and spirit, can be observed literally in watching the transformation as we go from practicing the works of the flesh, to applying the fruitages of the spirit Gal 5:19-23. Although Paul was already a very zealous witness for Jehovah, he basically had not accepted the Messiah, nor the new covenant. Because he was simply misguided, God was able to read his heart (his true inner self) and Jesus personally selected him to be his apostle to the nations.

We can learn from this incident not to be judgmental as well. Those who oppose us, or we might even think that they may oppose us, may actually be rightly disposed (heart condition) ones. Acts 13:48 So when we see that big Harley rat with tattoos, or the gang member on the street, we do not want to prejudge them thinking they would never serve God or others.

People think I am nuts because I prefer working the parts of town that you wouldn't want to be in at night, over the more affluent areas, but there is always more interest there. One brother stated it this way, the affluent have their own paradise, so they really do not want to hear about ours. It falls into the category of what Jesus said maam: they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away Mat 24:39

Thank you for taking the time to clarify your point further so that I could understand it Vicky.

 

[amadeus]

There is a chain of command among God's people as there has been since the time we became His people. The highest is Jehovah, followed by Jesus, but now let me ask you, do you believe the assigned faithful slave exists? If you do, then what is our responsibility to them sir? Do we obey or have no responsibility toward them?

We have responsibility to those God has placed over us and/or us under them... as we are allowed to recognize them and as He has convicted us to do so.

Following the lead of the Spirit will lead us rightly. Quenching the Spirit is where believers will err. This is why I seek to return always to the lowest room to allow God to make any necessary adjustments because I know that I have erred in the past. Am I in error now being presently unaware of the details and therefore needing His help? God knows!

Jesus said to say, yea or nay, but to whom are we to say it with regard to what? God knows! Are we following His Spirit always? Are we too often quenching His Spirit and following the wrong head?

If I am a slave, or am to be a slave, is it not to Him, I must be enslaved?

Help us dear Lord!

 

[VictoryinJesus]

giving us a new heart and spirit, can be observed literally in watching the transformation as we go from practicing the works of the flesh, to applying the fruitages of the spirit Gal 5:19-23.

that was all I meant concerning Paul/Saul. The transformation. “Giving us a new heart and spirit” you asked earlier why, or where I thought the word says Saul/Paul needed a new heart and spirit. I don’t think “giving us a new heart and spirit” excluded Saul/Paul, that’s all. If Saul/Paul was chosen for some former good then; so are All in need of a new heart and spirit chosen based of their former goods?