Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

No! But circumcision of the foreskin like that done to Abraham and his household has the same conotation in the Old Testament as water baptism is in the New Testament, that both phenomenons has no spiritual value except they now belong to the family of God.

The word "baptism" means to "wash"
or "wash away sins."

Spirit baptism happens when someone becomes save as in Titus 3:5,

I agree with this.
I believe we are first saved INITIALLY by God’s grace without works through faith.
When this happens… the Spirt baptizes us into one body and we are made to drink of one Spirit.

1 Corinthians 12:13
“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”

…water baprism has no spiritual value…

Water baptism happens after we are initially saved by God’s grace, and after we have been baptized into the Spirit.
Water baptism is merely a part of our continued faith in God.
Just as Noah followed his instructions in building the Ark by faith (Hebrews 11:7).
We are to follow our instructions in the faith, too (Which would be the commands that come primarily from Jesus and His followers and not Moses).
Faith is spiritual. For without faith, it is impossible to please Him (God) (Hebrews 11:6).
After we are saved without works INITIALLY, we need to continue in the faith (Which leads us to both believe certain doctrines and to do certain things that God is calling us to do as a part of the New Testament).

Boasting is excluded when it comes to the faith (See: Romans 3:27).
So if we are following our instructions by faith like Noah did in building the Ark, we cannot boast because we are simply doing what God told us to do. Therefore the works spoken of in Ephesians 2:9 are not a part of the faith (Whereby men would boast in themselves).

while water baprism has no spiritual value but to cleanse the dirt off of our skin (1 Peter 3:21).

To God Be The Glory

1 Peter 3:21 says,
“The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:”

It says baptism saves us not [for] the putting away of the filth of the flesh but it saves us in having us to give an answer in that we have a good and clean conscience towards God (already). Our good and clean conscience was made possible when we first accepted Jesus as our Savior before we were water baptized. When we are first saved, we are born again spiritually by the power and resurrection of Jesus Christ with our past sins being cleansed and put away. We become a new creation in Christ. We are born again.

I believe that when Peter says, “baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh,” I believe he is referring to how baptism does not put away of our sin nature entirely from us. While being born again spiritually does change us, we still need to crucify the affections and lusts by faith by fighting the good fight of faith in living out our faith whereby we may lay hold on eternal life (1 Timothy 6:12) (Galatians 5:24). For Paul says lets us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh an spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God (2 Corinthians 7:1). We are told to work out our salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Bible Highlighter - In relation to 1 cor 1:17, 11:1 and other verses appear to be irrelevant when putting forward your argument re: Water baptism vs Baptism of the HS as Paul did baptise a small number of people although it was not his call to ministry.

So do you believe Acts 19:1-7 describes a dry baptism only?
Or do you believe Acts 19:1-7 describes both a Spirit baptism, and a water baptism?

If it is a dry baptism only, then how do you explain Acts of the Apostles 19:5 saying that they were baptized in the name of Jesus? Being baptized in the name of Jesus is only mentioned as being baptized in water only (Acts of the Apostles 2:38) (Acts of the Apostles 8:16). There is no place in Scripture where it says that the apostles were baptized into the Spirit alone in the name of Jesus. Scripture only testifies that being baptized in the name of Jesus is tied to water baptism.

I honestly do not think that John's ministry of water baptism ended as such but was rather surpassed by something greater.

I believe John’s ministry has ended because the Law and the prophets were until John and we are not under the Old Law given to Moses.

Water baptism by John has ended.
But the water baptism in the name of Jesus has not ended because no actual Scripture verse clearly says it has ended. Only inferences are made off certain verses leads one to this conclusion.

John was a forerunner of Jesus. John's water baptism was a physical manifestation of a forthcoming spiritual event which happened in Christ Jesus.

There is no doubt that the physical baptism in water is a parallel of Spirit baptism. That does not mean that water baptism in the name of Jesus of Jesus has ended. We would need a clear verse or passage by Jesus, or by an apostle saying this practice has clearly ended. Inferences off verses that could be equally read to support water baptism is not a good case to make. All the verses that support Spirit baptism replacing water baptism is conjecture at best and the verses used to defend that position can be equally interpreted to defend that water baptism is still in effect. That’s why I have a problem with this position. It’s not clearly written. It seeks to create a hidden narrative that does not exist.

Source:
conjecture - Google Search

There are several problems with the position of saying that Spirit baptism replaces water baptism.

#1. It attacks the apostles. For it seeks to blame the apostles of God for making a mistake (by not understanding Spirit baptism) based on verses that could be equally read to defend water baptism.
#2. It attacks the Bible Alone position in that it is not clearly written and one must go more by their own thoughts or guesswork to make this theology work.
#3. It seeks to attack a given instruction by God within the faith (Which leads to potential disobedience with God).
#4. It seeks to attack Pentecost. For it paints Pentecost (the birth of the church) as an imperfect event because Peter made the blunder of water baptizing everyone when he should not have done so.

If you look through the bible you will see how many times physical manifestations [symbols] preceded spiritual events. For instance: The blood sacrifices in the OT, preceded Christ death and resurrection once and for all, the law was preceded by the Law of the Spirit in Christ Jesus. The gentiles at cornelius's house were baptised by the Holy Spirt while listening to the salvation message because they believed the message preached to them. This is surely enough to show that although it was natural in Judaic Jewish culture to baptise by water, it was not natural for gentiles.

I understand that the many types and parallels of the OT point to Jesus Christ. That does not mean water baptism in the name of Jesus has ended. At the end of the day our thoughts do not really matter. What matters is what Scripture plainly says, and no verse or passage clearly says water baptism in the name of Jesus has ended. We can see that John’s water baptism had ended. But baptism in the name of Jesus has not shown to have ended by the plain reading of Scripture.

The Council of Jerusalem had decided [after much persuasion from Paul and Barnabas] that Gentile Christians were not bound by the Levitical ceremonial regulations of the Jews ( ritual cleansing-water baptism) except for abstaining from what has been sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication” (Acts 15:29)

I agree with Acts 15. We are not under the Laws that came through Moses as a whole or package deal. We follow the commands of Jesus Christ, and Jesus told the apostles to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost. The apostles took this to mean as water baptism in the name of Jesus (Acts of the Apostles 2:38) (Acts of the Apostles 8:16) (Acts of the Apostles 19:5). God talked with the apostles directly on more than one occasion in the book of Acts. So why did God not communicate to them that they were doing something incorrectly (like water baptizing in the name of Jesus)?

 

[Angelina]

So do you believe Acts 19:1-7 describes a dry baptism only?
Or do you believe Acts 19:1-7 describes both a Spirit baptism, and a water baptism?

Water baptism was already performed. The second baptism may have also been by water but it seems a mute point since the Holy Spirit was recieved by the laying on of hands.

I believe John’s ministry has ended because the Law and the prophets were until John and we are not under the Old Law given to Moses.
But the water baptism in the name of Jesus has not ended because no actual Scripture verse clearly says it has ended. Only inferences are made off certain verses leads one to this conclusion.

If that were the case then the Holy Spirit would never have fallen on the gentiles at Cornelius home prior to their being baptised by water. They only believed the salvation message.

There is no doubt that the physical baptism in water is a parallel of Spirit baptism. That does not mean that water baptism in the name of Jesus of Jesus has ended. We would need a clear verse or passage by Jesus, or by an apostle saying this practice has clearly ended. Inferences off verses that could be equally read to support water baptism is not a good case to make. All the verses that support Spirit baptism replacing water baptism is conjecture at best and the verses used to defend that position can be equally interpreted to defend that water baptism is still in effect. That’s why I have a problem with this position. It’s not clearly written. It seeks to create a hidden narrative that does not exist.

I do not believe that phyisical baptism by water is parallel to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. If it were, those men who were baptised in Acts 19:1-6 would know who the Holy Spirit was but they did not. IMHO, Baptsim of the HS has surpassed water baptism In todays churches baptisms are still part of the rituals but are more along the lines of an outward expression of an inward change.
It also represents Christs death and his resurrection and our acknowledgement of dying to our old life and coming alive in Christ.

There are several problems with the position of saying that Spirit baptism replaces water baptism.
#1. It attacks the apostles. For it seeks to blame the apostles of God for making a mistake (by not understanding Spirit baptism) based on verses that could be equally read to defend water baptism.
#2. It attacks the Bible Alone position in that it is not clearly written and one must go more by their own thoughts or guesswork to make this theology work.
#3. It seeks to attack a given instruction by God within the faith (Which leads to potential disobedience with God).
#4. It seeks to attack Pentecost. For it paints Pentecost (the birth of the church) as an imperfect event because Peter made the blunder of water baptizing everyone when he should not have done so.

#1. It attacks the apostles. For it seeks to blame the apostles of God for making a mistake (by not understanding Spirit baptism) based on verses that could be equally read to defend water baptism.

No it does not. They followed Jesus. There were many instance where the Holy Spirt used those apostles to impart the Holy Spirit on believers. One was the message itself as per Paul at the house of Cornelius, the other was by the laying on of hands. Then we have the ultimate where the Holy Spirit came down on all those who believed in Jesus Christ on the day of Pentecost.

#2. It attacks the Bible Alone position in that it is not clearly written and one must go more by their own thoughts or guesswork to make this theology work.

I do not hold to the bible alone position. If the Holy Spirit dwells in a believer, the bible tell us that he teaches us all things. He is our helper, our comforter, our teacher and our seal of approval, our guarantee 1 Corinthians 2:9-10, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5, John 16:12-14, Acts 1:5-8, Ephesians 1:14, Ephesians 4:30...

#3. It seeks to attack a given instruction by God within the faith (Which leads to potential disobedience with God).

No not at all. Jesus followed the law and fulfilled every bit of it. Including baptism by water. The bible tells us that he is the end of the law. Romans 10:3-

#4. It seeks to attack Pentecost. For it paints Pentecost (the birth of the church) as an imperfect event because Peter made the blunder of water baptizing everyone when he should not have done so.

He fulfilled the law so that he could be the redeemer not only for the Jews who followed the O/T covenant but for the gentiles also who did not live by any of the OT laws given to Israel
Hebrews 9 says: AMP
14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal [Holy] Spirit willingly offered Himself unblemished [that is, without moral or spiritual imperfection as a sacrifice] to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works and lifeless observances to serve the ever living God?
15 For this reason He is the Mediator and Negotiator of a new covenant [that is, an entirely new agreement uniting God and man], so that those who have been called [by God] may receive [the fulfillment of] the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has taken place [as the payment] which redeems them from the sins committed under the obsolete first covenant

Ephesians 2
14 For He Himself is our peace and our bond of unity. He who made both groups—[Jews and Gentiles]—into one body and broke down the barrier, the dividing wall [of spiritual antagonism between us], 15 by abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the hostility caused by the Law with its commandments contained in ordinances [which He satisfied]; so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thereby establishing peace. 16 And [that He] might reconcile them both [Jew and Gentile, united] in one body to God through the cross, thereby putting to death the hostility.

It does not attack Pentecost at all. In fact it shows how diverse God is and how he does not always follow the pattern created by man who tries their best to put the Holy Spirit in a box. Blessings and Peace!

 

[Angelina]

I agree with Acts 15. We are not under the Laws that came through Moses as a whole or package deal. We follow the commands of Jesus Christ, and Jesus told the apostles to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Ghost. The apostles took this to mean as water baptism in the name of Jesus (Acts of the Apostles 2:38) (Acts of the Apostles 8:16) (Acts of the Apostles 19:5). God talked with the apostles directly on more than one occasion in the book of Acts. So why did God not communicate to them that they were doing something incorrectly (like water baptizing in the name of Jesus)?

The only gentiles mention in this gathering were proselytes. Again, it was common in the Judaic Jewish world to baptise this way as it was part of the levitical ceremonial laws and customs. The apostles were Jewish and so was Jesus.

You have to remember that they were bringing in something new. Something that seemed strange and in opposition of their Jewish world view.

 

[farouk]

@Angelina By spirit baptism, I would understand the term to mean the new birth (John 3), when the Holy Spirit comes to indwell (Romans 8:9).

 

[GRACE ambassador]

@Angelina By spirit baptism, I would understand the term to mean the new birth (John 3), when the Holy Spirit comes to indwell (Romans 8:9).

I see Two Different administrations for Two Different Dispensations?:
............................ Law .............................................. GRACE!

(Matthew - John - Acts 8) ..................... || ...... (Acts 9 - Romans - Philemon)

GRACE, Peace, And JOY...

 

[michaelvpardo]

Immersion in the Spirit is like, for example, being immersed in the moment, or immersed in a subject of interest, as we sometimes say.

This immersion can happen for the first time at water baptism, or it can happen for the first time through the laying on of hands. From then on the experience comes and goes, usually being closely connected to the extent that the believer (who has the initial experience) surrenders his life and seeks God and denies the distractions of this life.

My objection isn't to baptism of the Spirit, but to spiritual baptism as it's used, to justify avoiding being baptized.
It's just a word game of sorts, but as I pointed out, there is no scripture that actually says that we are immersed in the spirit, at least not in any translation that I've read.
One of our biggest impediments to understanding an accurate meaning of the Biblical text is to impose our understanding upon scripture to make it fit our doctrine.
There's only one true interpretation of any verse or passage (though many potential applications of the truth revealed), and we frequently circle the truth without hitting the mark.
Every unsound doctrinal belief was founded on someone's misunderstanding or misapplication of scripture, so it's best to let scripture just say what it says. The problem with misinterpretations, even if they are based upon sound doctrine, is that the real meaning of the text is lost.

 

[michaelvpardo]

And then he went into ministry, immersed in the power and presence of the Holy Spirit.

That's your understanding, not what scripture actually says.

 

[michaelvpardo]

I read it and I disagree.

1 Corinthians 12:13 says,
“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.”

This verse is clear. We are all baptized into one Spirit.

No it doesn't say that at all. It says we are baptized into one body. Then it goes on to say we've been made to drink into one Spirit. You're combing the two phrases into one to simplify it to fit your understanding.
I never asked you to agree, but neither my agreement or yours is required to establish truth.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

We understand the Holy Spirit to be the same One that descended on Christ, but at the Lord's baptism the Holy Spirit came down like a dove.

And then he went into ministry, immersed in the power and presence of the Holy Spirit.

That's your understanding, not what scripture actually says.

It says it here:

21...Jesus was baptized too. And as He was praying, heaven was opened, 22and the Holy Spirit descended on Him in a bodily form like a dove. And a voice came from heaven: “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.” Luke 3:21-22

"1Then Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness" Luke 4:1​

 

[Ferris Bueller]

My objection isn't to baptism of the Spirit, but to spiritual baptism as it's used, to justify avoiding being baptized.

Every believer needs to obey the Lord's command to be water baptized. It's the beginning of a believer's public testimony and witness. I don't know why some people are so offended by the command. They need to just do it and stop whining and rationalizing why they don't have to.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

there is no scripture that actually says that we are immersed in the spirit, at least not in any translation that I've read.

The experience is definitely that of being overcome and immersed in the Holy Spirit. Soaked in it (Him). Immersed in everything the Holy Spirit is. It's an infilling. Like when a natural person is overcome and filled with, say, lust, or greed, or jealousy. This experience of the Spirit is to be distinguished from simply having the Holy Spirit quietly residing in you in salvation. This is an overflowing of the Spirit in and out of a person.

"Streams of living water will flow from within him. ” John 7:38​

 

[MatthewG]

From my understanding.

John the Baptist, was sending out a message to all the nations surrounding that went to hear, a calling out to the pharisees, and also coming to make a way for the Lord - in which the Holy Spirit comes down upon the Lord. That is how that he could tell the one whom he baptized was the anointed one. John said that the Lord would baptize you in the Holy Spirit and Fire. That is one Baptism, then their is another baptism which is being baptized in Jesus death, with rising with Him again in newness of life that comes in and through faith and choosing to follow after Jesus, and to pick up their own cross and follow him.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

John said that the Lord would baptize you in the Holy Spirit and Fire.

Experiencing the Holy Spirit in it's manifest fullness often has the sensation of heat and fire associated with it.
Years ago when I would come home my wife could tell if I'd been witnessing by if my face was flushed.

 

[MatthewG]

There are several takes on what John means by Holy Spirit and Fire, Ferris.

 

[Ferris Bueller]

There are several takes on what John means by Holy Spirit and Fire, Ferris.

Cloves of fire above the heads of the disciples at Pentecost is the first indication of the 'fiery' nature of the Holy Spirit. It can mean the cleansing, purging effect of the Holy Spirit, burning up the chaff. It can mean the fire of suffering. It can mean the fire of effective witness and ministry.

 

[MatthewG]

Cloves of fire above the heads of the disciples at Pentecost is the first indication of the 'fiery' nature of the Holy Spirit. It can mean the cleansing, purging effect of the Holy Spirit, burning up the chaff. It can mean the fire of suffering. It can mean the fire of effective witness and ministry.

Thank you for taking that time to share.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Water baptism was already performed. The second baptism may have also been by water but it seems a mute point since the Holy Spirit was recieved by the laying on of hands.
If that were the case then the Holy Spirit would never have fallen on the gentiles at Cornelius home prior to their being baptised by water. They only believed the salvation message.
I do not believe that phyisical baptism by water is parallel to the Baptism of the Holy Spirit. If it were, those men who were baptised in Acts 19:1-6 would know who the Holy Spirit was but they did not. IMHO, Baptsim of the HS has surpassed water baptism In todays churches baptisms are still part of the rituals but are more along the lines of an outward expression of an inward change.
It also represents Christs death and his resurrection and our acknowledgement of dying to our old life and coming alive in Christ.


No it does not. They followed Jesus. There were many instance where the Holy Spirt used those apostles to impart the Holy Spirit on believers. One was the message itself as per Paul at the house of Cornelius, the other was by the laying on of hands. Then we have the ultimate where the Holy Spirit came down on all those who believed in Jesus Christ on the day of Pentecost.
I do not hold to the bible alone position. If the Holy Spirit dwells in a believer, the bible tell us that he teaches us all things. He is our helper, our comforter, our teacher and our seal of approval, our guarantee 1 Corinthians 2:9-10, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5, John 16:12-14, Acts 1:5-8, Ephesians 1:14, Ephesians 4:30...
No not at all. Jesus followed the law and fulfilled every bit of it. Including baptism by water. The bible tells us that he is the end of the law. Romans 10:3-
He fulfilled the law so that he could be the redeemer not only for the Jews who followed the O/T covenant but for the gentiles also who did not live by any of the OT laws given to Israel
Hebrews 9 says: AMP
14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal [Holy] Spirit willingly offered Himself unblemished [that is, without moral or spiritual imperfection as a sacrifice] to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works and lifeless observances to serve the ever living God?
15 For this reason He is the Mediator and Negotiator of a new covenant [that is, an entirely new agreement uniting God and man], so that those who have been called [by God] may receive [the fulfillment of] the promised eternal inheritance, since a death has taken place [as the payment] which redeems them from the sins committed under the obsolete first covenant

Ephesians 2
14 For He Himself is our peace and our bond of unity. He who made both groups—[Jews and Gentiles]—into one body and broke down the barrier, the dividing wall [of spiritual antagonism between us], 15 by abolishing in His [own crucified] flesh the hostility caused by the Law with its commandments contained in ordinances [which He satisfied]; so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thereby establishing peace. 16 And [that He] might reconcile them both [Jew and Gentile, united] in one body to God through the cross, thereby putting to death the hostility.

It does not attack Pentecost at all. In fact it shows how diverse God is and how he does not always follow the pattern created by man who tries their best to put the Holy Spirit in a box. Blessings and Peace!

I think it is best we agree to disagree, sister. Still love you as a fellow Christian in Christ (although I disagree).

Peace and blessings be unto you in the Lord.

 

[theefaith]

Do you believe Spirit baptism replaces water baptism?

Some Christians hold to the belief that Spirit baptism replaces water baptism. I recently held to this belief but I reverted back to my old position that we are to water baptize others and be water baptized.

for justification?

 

[theefaith]

He's right about some of it. People who translated the Bible to English were imprisoned, strangled and burned. William Tyndale - Wikipedia

for heresy yes not for English
Heresy is treason against God and is punishable by death

Justice is executed by the state!

Does not wield the sword in vain!

Old Testament:

Ez 8:16 And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the Lord, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the Lord, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east.

Ez 9:4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.

5 And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity:

6 Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house.

(Even those who did not worship the sun but were not grieved at this offense were slain!)

1 kings 18:21 And Elijah came unto all the people, and said, How long halt ye between two opinions? if the Lord be God, follow him: but if Baal, then follow him. And the people answered him not a word.

1 kings 18:40 And Elijah said unto them, Take the prophets of Baal; let not one of them escape. And they took them: and Elijah brought them down to the brook Kishon, and slew them there.

(All these false prophets were killed)

Leviticus 20:27
A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.


We don’t apologize for the truth of the gospel of life!

Two edge sword:

The church has received from her savior the “sacred deposit of faith” eph 4:5 Jude 1:3

And has to command from Christ to teach all men matt 28:19 without error Lk 10:16 Jn 20:21 Jn 16:13

To teach, and declare the truth of divine revelation and to condemn all errors!

To Defend and safeguard the sacred deposit of faith and all the faithful from error preserving the purity of the faith of Jesus Christ!

Rom 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

9 For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

We live in freethinking Open society with “rights” like free speech, freedom of the press etc. with separation of church and state as opposed to a close kingdom, by a prime minister with the cardinal arch-bishop as the chancellor and only the true faith revealed by Christ being allowed and all other are another Gospel and error and treason not only against the king and the realm but against God!

Treason!

Heresy is treason against God and His revealed truth!

Rev 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

1 Corinthians 16:22
If any man love not the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be Anathema!



Authority in the state!

1 pet 2: 13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;

14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.

15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:

We must also forbid divorce, adultery, and all forms of sexuality against the commandments, work on Sunday’s and holidays, absolute free speech, expression, and press without any regard for morals, only the good, true, and beautiful are acceptable!