22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

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dad

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You have not a single verse saying there is a 7 year covenant. That is something a human made up.

The AoD is only 42 months, not 7 years.
Daniel 9:27

And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.


Half of seven years is 42 months. We also have that in years and days. WE know that pact involves Israel. We know that in the middle of that week the antichrist offend the Jews totally and whatever agreement they had, he now breaks it by setting up the abomination as Jesus said, and persecuting the Jews, attacking Israel etc. So much so that Jesus said to flee right away when they see this. Do not even go to get clothes and stuff in your house.
God removes the Atonement during those 42 months, not 7 years.
I don't even know what that means, but I do not see this in the bible. Jesus never mentioned it. Etc.
You think it wrong to remove Salvation for 42 months?
Say what?! You think God is sending witnesses and Jewish people from various tribes, and even angels preaching the gospel to tell people they cannot be saved!!
How do you think Israel felt to be cut off from God for thousands of years? Do you think their religion has been a comforting replacement for God's Atonement?
Believers are never cut off! Nations that reject His word and kill His prophets etc do get cut off. There were plenty of believers like Daniel, Mary and Joseph, etc etc etc.
When Satan is given 100% control for 42 months, you think God wants to be part of that?
The key here is 'given'. There are rules and limits and a very fixed time. He also is taking out the Bride before that happens! Then the new saints are helped with a little help, the witnesses fry enemies that try to kill them, there are miracles etc etc. Satan has no power over us! Jesus has overcome the world. The power Satan will have is over the kingdoms of the world.

The people who "get saved" are people without a head.
The ones in heaven were killed, how did you think they got to heaven!? The fact they are in heaven does not mean the beheading act saved them!
They are dead saints who are resurrected in Revelation 20:4. If you have the mark and your head, you cannot be resurrected in Revelation 20:4. You would have to wait for the 1,000 years to be over, and stand as dead at the GWT.

Yes meaning that like we received new bodies at the rapture, the new saints are resurrected later when He returns as well. Of course the wicked will not be getting this then.


"And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus"

Seems pretty specific who were seen here.
Not so much as you think. There is also thrones. What did the Bride get in the Marriage Supper after the Rapture? Crowns! Rewards! So there are many many folks in heaven. Adam and Eve, all the bible heros, believers from the various ages etc etc. And, and the verse adds at the end, also, of course, some newbies from the tribulation who were killed.
Would you say some people who had the mark, did not actually have the mark, but were faking? Were they also faking their head was cut off, even while walking around with a head on?
It doesn't matter how they died! If a wicked follower of Satan died by losing their head, so what? If a new believer in the tribulation had a vehicle accident they still go to heaven! If they get shot. If they were sick and died, if they were hit by lighting! The way we die does not save us, Jesus saves.
 

WPM

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Satan rules sinners.

Most of the inhabitants are sinners.

He is the god of this world, roaming....

Only the Acts 2:38 saints are free from his captivity.

Not sinners or those that reject Acts 2:38.

Genesis 3:15 predicted, And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”

This is metaphoric language predicting the impairment of the devil through the earthly ministry of the Messiah. Satan was going to be spiritually incapacitated through the work of Christ. We see two amazing things in this prophecy, first, a profound picture of the cross, and second, the acute effect that it had upon the devil. This prophecy is a remarkable forecast of Calvary and the consequence of Christ’s atoning sacrifice on the enemy. It also addresses the incapacitating fate that befalls Satan. This shows that Satan’s ability to function has been impaired. His power and that of his deluded minions is restricted through the preaching of the Gospel and the advance of the kingdom of God. Satan’s power and his movement has been restrained, albeit not completely.

Significantly, the first prophecy of Christ and His coming and the devil and his doom in Scripture is a symbolic one with a literal interpretation. This is surely something Bible students should carefully note. It is also worth noting that nowhere in this well-known prophetic passage does it predict that Satan would be destroyed at Calvary – that is still to come – but that he would be restricted in his operations through the spiritual brain damage he would sustain there.

The bruising of Satan’s head by Christ broke the unchallenged sway of the devil over the nations. Jesus destroyed the incredible lordship that Satan had on the human race and plundered his house of countless souls. Since the cross, numerous Gentiles have been set free from their blindness and bondage. They have been delivered into the kingdom of God. In doing this, Christ destroyed the claims, authority and ownership that Satan had over the nations. Jesus made a way of escape for the Gentiles out of the kingdom of Satan. The power and influence Satan once had over the Gentiles was assaulted through the earthly ministry of Christ. This curtailed the devil, allowing the free-flow of the Gospel across the world. Christ battered Satan’s house, damaged his authority, limiting the scale of his influence. He indeed destroyed the overwhelming claims and ownership that Satan had over the Gentile people.

Matthew 12:22-29 records,Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind (Gr. deo) the strong man? And then he will spoil his house.”


The “strong man” here is Satan. His “house” is the dark area of spiritual influence that Satan rules over in the kingdom of darkness. His “goods” are the humans he enslaves in bondage and servitude. To “spoil his house” and “spoil his goods” is to conquer those who are enslaved under the devil’s control and liberate them into the kingdom of God.

Obviously, the fact that Jesus cast out devils by the Spirit of God demonstrated that the promised kingdom of God has already come. This parable confirms that the liberating of the elect could not happen “except he first bind the strong man.” According to Christ, this deliverance from captivity could not happen before Satan was spiritually bound. The binding therefore had to precede the liberation of the redeemed and was definitely not delayed 2000 years+ until the second coming as Premillennialists would wrongly argue. This all occurred through the earthly ministry of Christ.

He came to the strong man's house (this sinful world) and spiritually chained Satan. He is like a dog on a leash that will only harm those that foolishly get close to him. He has power and movement but it is restrained and limited since the ministry of Christ. The devil was subject to the purposes of God and hurt by the spiritual advance of the kingdom of God. This kingdom is still alive and active today. Souls are still being marvellously delivered from the power of Satan. The binding of the strong man continues today wherever the Gospel prevails.

Mark 3:11, 23-27 also records: unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God ... And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind (Gr. deo) the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.”


Christ’s earthly ministry expressly bound Satan and damaged his wicked house on this earth. This was indeed what was prophesied in the Garden of Eden. It didn’t say that the cross would destroy him, but hamper him in his schemes. His head was bruised by the supernatural punch of Christ.

The Lord confronted Satan head on in his own backyard and soundly defeated him. Everywhere that Christ went, demons were subject to his every word. This authority was in turn delegated to his disciples who operated this same spiritual power were ever they gone. His servants enforced his authority casting many demons out and seeing many men and women delivered from the power of Satan to the power of God. This was unprecedented. God's people, as a whole, had now power over the enemy.

Significantly, the Greek word deo (Strong’s 1210) employed here is the exact same word used in Revelation 20 which means to bind in either a literal or a spiritual sense. This is what happened everywhere the kingdom of God was seen, the kingdom of darkness was suppressed. Moreover, at Calvary, Satan’s power to deceive the nations was spiritual bound or curtailed by the finished and victorious work of Christ. Revelation 20:2-3 states, “And he (Christ) laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and (Gr. deo) bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the abyss, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more.”
 
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covenantee

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Futurism is polar opposite of preterism.

One says most of prophecy has been fulfilled and the other says most has not yet been fulfilled.
The prophecy of Jesus' first coming has been fulfilled. That's preterism.
 

Truther

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Please remember, it is the dragon that is placed in a prison under chains. It is obviously a metaphoric description. The dragon, prison and chains represent real spiritual reality. Satan is spiritually restrained during this intra-Advent period until he is released at the end to have a short season of persecution. Satan cannot stop the Gospel going to the nations as he once did. Since the cross, the Gospel has spread throughout the heathen nations of this world, something that never happened previous. However, this doesn't stop individuals being personally deceived.
The physical dimension can have chains but the spirit dimension cannot?

Who is the authority of this understanding?

Can they see that dimension or something?
 

Truther

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Genesis 3:15 predicted, And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.”

This is metaphoric language predicting the impairment of the devil through the earthly ministry of the Messiah. Satan was going to be spiritually incapacitated through the work of Christ. We see two amazing things in this prophecy, first, a profound picture of the cross, and second, the acute effect that it had upon the devil. This prophecy is a remarkable forecast of Calvary and the consequence of Christ’s atoning sacrifice on the enemy. It also addresses the incapacitating fate that befalls Satan. This shows that Satan’s ability to function has been impaired. His power and that of his deluded minions is restricted through the preaching of the Gospel and the advance of the kingdom of God. Satan’s power and his movement has been restrained, albeit not completely.

Significantly, the first prophecy of Christ and His coming and the devil and his doom in Scripture is a symbolic one with a literal interpretation. This is surely something Bible students should carefully note. It is also worth noting that nowhere in this well-known prophetic passage does it predict that Satan would be destroyed at Calvary – that is still to come – but that he would be restricted in his operations through the spiritual brain damage he would sustain there.

The bruising of Satan’s head by Christ broke the unchallenged sway of the devil over the nations. Jesus destroyed the incredible lordship that Satan had on the human race and plundered his house of countless souls. Since the cross, numerous Gentiles have been set free from their blindness and bondage. They have been delivered into the kingdom of God. In doing this, Christ destroyed the claims, authority and ownership that Satan had over the nations. Jesus made a way of escape for the Gentiles out of the kingdom of Satan. The power and influence Satan once had over the Gentiles was assaulted through the earthly ministry of Christ. This curtailed the devil, allowing the free-flow of the Gospel across the world. Christ battered Satan’s house, damaged his authority, limiting the scale of his influence. He indeed destroyed the overwhelming claims and ownership that Satan had over the Gentile people.

Matthew 12:22-29 records,Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind (Gr. deo) the strong man? And then he will spoil his house.”


The “strong man” here is Satan. His “house” is the dark area of spiritual influence that Satan rules over in the kingdom of darkness. His “goods” are the humans he enslaves in bondage and servitude. To “spoil his house” and “spoil his goods” is to conquer those who are enslaved under the devil’s control and liberate them into the kingdom of God.

Obviously, the fact that Jesus cast out devils by the Spirit of God demonstrated that the promised kingdom of God has already come. This parable confirms that the liberating of the elect could not happen “except he first bind the strong man.” According to Christ, this deliverance from captivity could not happen before Satan was spiritually bound. The binding therefore had to precede the liberation of the redeemed and was definitely not delayed 2000 years+ until the second coming as Premillennialists would wrongly argue. This all occurred through the earthly ministry of Christ.

He came to the strong man's house (this sinful world) and spiritually chained Satan. He is like a dog on a leash that will only harm those that foolishly get close to him. He has power and movement but it is restrained and limited since the ministry of Christ. The devil was subject to the purposes of God and hurt by the spiritual advance of the kingdom of God. This kingdom is still alive and active today. Souls are still being marvellously delivered from the power of Satan. The binding of the strong man continues today wherever the Gospel prevails.

Mark 3:11, 23-27 also records: unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God ... And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind (Gr. deo) the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.”


Christ’s earthly ministry expressly bound Satan and damaged his wicked house on this earth. This was indeed what was prophesied in the Garden of Eden. It didn’t say that the cross would destroy him, but hamper him in his schemes. His head was bruised by the supernatural punch of Christ.

The Lord confronted Satan head on in his own backyard and soundly defeated him. Everywhere that Christ went, demons were subject to his every word. This authority was in turn delegated to his disciples who operated this same spiritual power were ever they gone. His servants enforced his authority casting many demons out and seeing many men and women delivered from the power of Satan to the power of God. This was unprecedented. God's people, as a whole, had now power over the enemy.

Significantly, the Greek word deo (Strong’s 1210) employed here is the exact same word used in Revelation 20 which means to bind in either a literal or a spiritual sense. This is what happened everywhere the kingdom of God was seen, the kingdom of darkness was suppressed. Moreover, at Calvary, Satan’s power to deceive the nations was spiritual bound or curtailed by the finished and victorious work of Christ. Revelation 20:2-3 states, “And he (Christ) laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and (Gr. deo) bound him a thousand years, And cast him into the abyss, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more.”
All of the words in red you posted are actually fake, meaning something else???
 

Truther

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The prophecy of Jesus' first coming has been fulfilled. That's preterism.
No, preterism teaches Jesus' second coming happened in 70ad, per planet preterism etc.

They teach the dust clouds of the horses driven by the Romans during the seige of Jerusalem are the clouds Jesus returned in the 2nd time...cough, cough...LOL.
 

covenantee

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No, preterism teaches Jesus' second coming happened in 70ad, per planet preterism etc.

They teach the dust clouds of the horses driven by the Romans during the seige of Jerusalem are the clouds Jesus returned in the 2nd time...cough, cough...LOL.

Preterism teaches that the prophecy of Jesus' first coming has been fulfilled.

Futurism also teaches that the prophecy of Jesus' first coming has been fulfilled.

Futurism = preterism re. Jesus' first coming.
 

Truther

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Preterism teaches that the prophecy of Jesus' first coming has been fulfilled.

Futurism also teaches that the prophecy of Jesus' first coming has been fulfilled.

Futurism = preterism re. Jesus' first coming.
That is the only tiny similarity.

The rest is polar opposite.

Ignorant futurists also teach Jer 31 is fulfilled, which gives preterists a little ammo.

Both are wrong.

We are INCLUDED in a teency portion of national Israel's future promise to the fathers.

Futurists have not figured this fact out per Heb 10:15-17.
 

covenantee

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That is the only tiny similarity.

The rest is polar opposite.

Ignorant futurists also teach Jer 31 is fulfilled, which gives preterists a little ammo.

Both are wrong.

We are INCLUDED in a teency portion of national Israel's future promise to the fathers.

Futurists have not figured this fact out per Heb 10:15-17.

There's nothing tiny about Jesus' first coming.

It is unequalled as the prophetic event in all of human history.

Futurism agrees with preterism regarding its fulfillment.
 

Truther

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There's nothing tiny about Jesus' first coming.

It is unequalled as a prophetic event in all of human history.

Futurism agrees with preterism regarding its fulfillment.
Nope, in the first coming Jesus died...in his 2nd coming, the devil is banished from earth for 1000 years and the unbelievers die.

The prophecies of the OT show his physical kingdom spread over the physical earth, which is non existent today.

He even told the Apostles it is none of their business when this event occurs and that they would not see or know it....


6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
 

Timtofly

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Tim, you really need to think about what you are saying before you open your mouth.

From Gods perspective it was always going to be up to him to save us. He did this for us because he is the essence of love itself.
It has NOT always been this way as you say.
It took Jesus to endure the cross and shed his blood for us before it became a reality for us. How dare you so carelessly overlook this.
I am not overlooking the Cross. I am pointing out the Atonement has always been.

For someone who denies the Day of The Lord as a future 1,000 year reign where there is no sin nor Satan, you sure are adamant about a single day on earth.
 

covenantee

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Nope, in the first coming Jesus died...in his 2nd coming, the devil is banished from earth for 1000 years and the unbelievers die.

The prophecies of the OT show his physical kingdom spread over the physical earth, which is non existent today.

He even told the Apostles it is none of their business when this event occurs and that they would not see or know it....


6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

In His first coming, Jesus rose again.

All of the prophecies regarding His birth, ministry, death, and resurrection have been fulfilled.

The greatest prophetic event in all of human history, indisputably fulfilled in its entirety.

Agreed by preterists and futurists alike.
 

Truther

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In His first coming, Jesus rose again.

All of the prophecies regarding His birth, ministry, death, and resurrection have been fulfilled.

The greatest prophetic event in all of human history, indisputably fulfilled in its entirety.

Agreed by preterists and futurists alike.
The entire Bible is about Jesus reigning over all humans for 1000 years.

The atonement just made a way for it to someday happen.

You think there is no physical reign of Christ as per the OT prophecies.

You think there is no return with the saints to start this event.

You teach God is a promise breaking liar if you teach preterism.
 

Truther

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Preterists beware...


8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
 

WPM

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The entire Bible is about Jesus reigning over all humans for 1000 years.

The atonement just made a way for it to someday happen.

You think there is no physical reign of Christ as per the OT prophecies.

You think there is no return with the saints to start this event.

You teach God is a promise breaking liar if you teach preterism.

Christ overcome 2000 years ago and is now reigning.

Jesus said Revelation 3:21: “I … overcame.”

Revelation 5:5 tells us: “behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed.”

The lion is known as the king of the jungle. It carries great authority and power. That is a very potent symbol of who Jesus is. By the way, the Bible does not say that Satan is a lion. It says that he walks about “like” a lion.

Ephesians 1:17-21, the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come.”

This passage confirms the absolute authority that Christ now enjoys and reveals the unlimited scope of His current rule. It explicitly illustrates the current sovereign reign of Christ over all His enemies from the “right hand” of majesty on high.

Philippians 2:9-11 says, wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name.”

He reigns today over the seen and the unseen world making every power and every authority “subject unto him.”

1 Peter 3:22 says, that Christ, who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God (now!!!); angels and authorities and powers being (currently!!!) made subject unto him.”

Those who question Christ’s current reign do great assault upon the truth of God’s Word and undermine the current sovereign kingly position that He now assuredly holds.

Heaven’s authority is bestowed upon Christ. He is God! Colossians 2:9-10, 14-15 confirms: "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power … Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.”

He is risen and He is reigning! He is ruling over everything! This is happening right now! Check out the actual original text and check out the tenses involved. Christ’s universal rule, which is found in His divine character, exercises supreme authority over everything and everyone that exists. This dominion is seen in His sovereign dealing with mankind, whether it is with an individual person or with accumulation of nations – all are subject to his controlling power and ultimate influence. Such authority could be justly described as Christ’s providential kingship.

Colossians 1:15-17 addresses the great sovereign reign of Christ over all creation. Stating, Christ, “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”

These passages couldn’t be stronger in outlining where supreme authority lies today. Christ sovereignly reigns in kingly power over all creation.

1 Corinthians 15:25-28, saying: he must reign (present tense), till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For ’he hath put’ (present tense) all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued (or subordinated) unto him (speaking of the second coming), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

Here he shows that Christ is reigning now. It is written in the present, active infinitive sense. How long does he reign? He confirms: “till he hath put all enemies under his feet.” Again, this couldn’t be clearer! Every last enemy will be subjugated and subdued at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. The last enemy is identified as death!

There you have it! The second coming sees the final “put down” of all:

· rule
· authority
· power
· death

Hebrews 1:1-3, 2:6-8 says, “God … hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things … Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high … What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: Thou hast put all things in subjection (present tense) under his feet. For in that ‘he put all in subjection’ (present tense) under him, he left nothing that is not put under him."

Here we see our Lord’s awesome authority.

1 Timothy 1:17 describes Christ as the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God.”

John Flavel says of Christ: “He rules and orders the Kingdom of Providence by supporting, permitting, restraining, limiting, protecting, punishing and rewarding those over whom He reigns providentially.”

Christ has set bounds upon wickedness. He limits the power and influence of the kingdom of darkness. He has spiritual limitations upon the movement and debauchery of Satan and his demons.

That is why Christ is called a King. He is ruler. He is a judge. He is Potentate. He carries ultimate authority.

As A.W. Pink puts it so well: “The limits of evil-doing and of evildoers has been divinely defined and cannot be exceeded.”
 

WPM

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Preterists beware...


8 Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the Lord with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.

The same Shepherd who will comfort His sheep (the elect) will also destroy the goats (the wicked). This teaching is taken from Psalm 2:1-12. See what it is saying: “Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.Thou shalt break (ra` a`) them with a rod of iron; ‘thou shalt dash them in pieces’ (naphats) like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”

The Hebrew word ra` a` means to spoil: literally, by breaking to pieces; figuratively, to make (or be) good for nothing. The Hebrew word naphats here derives from a primitive root; to dash to pieces, or scatter.

The picture here is of a Shepherd with a rod. However, this is NO ordinary Shepherd with NO ordinary rod. The Shepherd here is Christ, and He is coming in His wrath at the end of this age to deal with the wicked thus the significance of the rod of iron. He is a jealous Shepherd who is finally coming to destroy those that have rejected Him. The shepherding is clearly associated with the FINAL separation.

The Lord encounters only 2 types of people when He comes – saved or lost, sheep or goats. The sheep enter into their eternal inheritance; the goats receive their eternal punishment. Nothing could be simpler. You invent some 3rd group of humans that are too righteous to be destroyed at the second coming, yet too wicked to be rescued, yet Premil argue among themselves who they actually are. The reality is: they don't exist.

Nowhere in any of these passages is there any insinuation of a 1,000 years shepherding (or ruling) over the nations -as Premil alleges. What is more, Nowhere in Rev 20 is there any mention of (1) a rod of iron, (2) Christ on earth, (3) and therefore Christ ruling on earth with a rod of iron for 1,000 years. You will only find that in the Premil textbooks
 

covenantee

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The entire Bible is about Jesus reigning over all humans for 1000 years.

The atonement just made a way for it to someday happen.

You think there is no physical reign of Christ as per the OT prophecies.

You think there is no return with the saints to start this event.

You teach God is a promise breaking liar if you teach preterism.
Futurism teaches that Christ fulfilled nothing at His First Coming.

Futurism teaches that Christ's Kingdom was thwarted and defeated at His First Coming.

Futurism denies that all of the OT promises of God are yes and amen in His Son. (2 Corinthians 1:20)

Futurism denies that Christ's Church is His exclusive Chosen People.

Futurism teaches that the Covenant Confirmer of Daniel 9:27 is not Christ, but instead antichrist.

Futurism was spawned in the counterfeit counter-reformation of the historical apostasized papacy.

Futurism's teaching is Scripturally vacuous and bankrupt.
 

WPM

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Nope, in the first coming Jesus died...in his 2nd coming, the devil is banished from earth for 1000 years and the unbelievers die.

The prophecies of the OT show his physical kingdom spread over the physical earth, which is non existent today.

He even told the Apostles it is none of their business when this event occurs and that they would not see or know it....


6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

Isaiah speaks of the resurrection of the dead, in Isaiah 26:19-27:1, and also identifies it with the time and events that surround the end of the millennium, saying, Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon.”

This seems to tell us that God is keeping the dead in Christ in a safe place until the wicked events of this scene of time have finally been brought to an end and perfect righteousness has been introduced to the new earth. This tells me that the current state of sin and corruption with plagues this earth will be eliminated upon Christ’s return. The new earth that God’s glorified saints will populate will be perfect and pristine.

In this reading Isaiah testifies of the time when he personally, as an Old Testament saint, will be physically resurrected to meet the Lord at His coming. In doing so, he links this to time when “the earth shall cast out the dead.” Significantly, he relates this climactic resurrection to the dead generally and explains how it corresponds with the great judgment of the wicked, at the end, “for their iniquity.” This occasion plainly embodies all the characteristics of that impending Last Day.

Isaiah describes how this day sees the time when the wicked are raised to be judged, which as we have seen is the very same time that the Old Testament saints are also raised. The passage declares, “behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.” The Hebrew word used here for slain is ‘harag’ meaning to destroy out of hand, kill, and put to death. The resurrection of the righteous must therefore assuredly happen at the end of the millennium (and Satan’s little season), the time expressly advanced as the time when Satan is finally slain.

There is such an obvious finality to this whole reading that no one could surely argue with any credence that it is speaking of anything other than the end of the world. Moreover, this climactic event also sees the complete destruction of that great enemy of the kingdom of God – that old serpent/dragon Satan and the wicked is once and for all destroyed. The resurrection of the righteous must therefore happen at the end of the millennium (and Satan’s little season), the time expressly advanced as the time when Satan is finally slain.
 

David Boyer

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No, this is a big deal because sign and metaphor are very different.

The book of Rev is the litmus test.

It is SIGNified or sign...ified.(full of signs).

The lamb is Jesus, the dragon is satan, etc.

The PRETERIST wants it to all be metaphorized so they can redefine the entire book with their handy dandy concordances.

For instance, instead of a literal tree of life found in heaven for the healing of the nations, the PRETERIST says WE ARE the tree.

Nuts.

How exactly are a metaphor and a sign VERY different?
Signified in Rev 1:1 just means to indicate. Not "hey this book is full of signs".
 
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