22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[Timtofly]

Ask Jesus why he preached Jn 5 as being in the here and now.

Tell me Tim, do you expect to come into the judgment of the second death if it happened right now? Is what Jesus did for you enough for you to escape before any bodily resurrection.???

Well mine sins were judged on the Cross.

The second death is 1,000 years from now. I am as ready as Paul was.

 

[Truther]

Christ overcome 2000 years ago and is now reigning.

Jesus said Revelation 3:21: “I … overcame.”

Revelation 5:5 tells us: “behold, the Lion of the tribe of Juda, the Root of David, hath prevailed.”

The lion is known as the king of the jungle. It carries great authority and power. That is a very potent symbol of who Jesus is. By the way, the Bible does not say that Satan is a lion. It says that he walks about “like” a lion.

Ephesians 1:17-21, “the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come.”

This passage confirms the absolute authority that Christ now enjoys and reveals the unlimited scope of His current rule. It explicitly illustrates the current sovereign reign of Christ over all His enemies from the “right hand” of majesty on high.

Philippians 2:9-11 says, “wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name.”

He reigns today over the seen and the unseen world making every power and every authority “subject unto him.”

1 Peter 3:22 says, that Christ, “who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God (now!!!); angels and authorities and powers being (currently!!!) made subject unto him.”

Those who question Christ’s current reign do great assault upon the truth of God’s Word and undermine the current sovereign kingly position that He now assuredly holds.

Heaven’s authority is bestowed upon Christ. He is God! Colossians 2:9-10, 14-15 confirms: "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power … Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.”

He is risen and He is reigning! He is ruling over everything! This is happening right now! Check out the actual original text and check out the tenses involved. Christ’s universal rule, which is found in His divine character, exercises supreme authority over everything and everyone that exists. This dominion is seen in His sovereign dealing with mankind, whether it is with an individual person or with accumulation of nations – all are subject to his controlling power and ultimate influence. Such authority could be justly described as Christ’s providential kingship.

Colossians 1:15-17 addresses the great sovereign reign of Christ over all creation. Stating, Christ, “Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.”

These passages couldn’t be stronger in outlining where supreme authority lies today. Christ sovereignly reigns in kingly power over all creation.

1 Corinthians 15:25-28, saying: “he must reign (present tense), till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For ’he hath put’ (present tense) all things under his feet. But when he saith, all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued (or subordinated) unto him (speaking of the second coming), then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.”

Here he shows that Christ is reigning now. It is written in the present, active infinitive sense. How long does he reign? He confirms: “till he hath put all enemies under his feet.” Again, this couldn’t be clearer! Every last enemy will be subjugated and subdued at the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ. The last enemy is identified as death!

There you have it! The second coming sees the final “put down” of all:

· rule
· authority
· power
· death

Hebrews 1:1-3, 2:6-8 says, “God … hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things … Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high … What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man, that thou visitest him? Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: ’Thou hast put all things in subjection’ (present tense) under his feet. For in that ‘he put all in subjection’ (present tense) under him, he left nothing that is not put under him."

Here we see our Lord’s awesome authority.

1 Timothy 1:17 describes Christ as “the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God.”

John Flavel says of Christ: “He rules and orders the Kingdom of Providence by supporting, permitting, restraining, limiting, protecting, punishing and rewarding those over whom He reigns providentially.”

Christ has set bounds upon wickedness. He limits the power and influence of the kingdom of darkness. He has spiritual limitations upon the movement and debauchery of Satan and his demons.

That is why Christ is called a King. He is ruler. He is a judge. He is Potentate. He carries ultimate authority.

As A.W. Pink puts it so well: “The limits of evil-doing and of evildoers has been divinely defined and cannot be exceeded.”

Jesus is allowing satan to co-rule?...

Eph. 6. [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

[Truther]

The same Shepherd who will comfort His sheep (the elect) will also destroy the goats (the wicked). This teaching is taken from Psalm 2:1-12. See what it is saying: “Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the Lord shall have them in derision. Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.Thou shalt break (ra` a`) them with a rod of iron; ‘thou shalt dash them in pieces’ (naphats) like a potter's vessel. Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth. Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling. Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.”

The Hebrew word ra` a` means to spoil: literally, by breaking to pieces; figuratively, to make (or be) good for nothing. The Hebrew word naphats here derives from a primitive root; to dash to pieces, or scatter.

The picture here is of a Shepherd with a rod. However, this is NO ordinary Shepherd with NO ordinary rod. The Shepherd here is Christ, and He is coming in His wrath at the end of this age to deal with the wicked thus the significance of the rod of iron. He is a jealous Shepherd who is finally coming to destroy those that have rejected Him. The shepherding is clearly associated with the FINAL separation.

The Lord encounters only 2 types of people when He comes – saved or lost, sheep or goats. The sheep enter into their eternal inheritance; the goats receive their eternal punishment. Nothing could be simpler. You invent some 3rd group of humans that are too righteous to be destroyed at the second coming, yet too wicked to be rescued, yet Premil argue among themselves who they actually are. The reality is: they don't exist.

Nowhere in any of these passages is there any insinuation of a 1,000 years shepherding (or ruling) over the nations -as Premil alleges. What is more, Nowhere in Rev 20 is there any mention of (1) a rod of iron, (2) Christ on earth, (3) and therefore Christ ruling on earth with a rod of iron for 1,000 years. You will only find that in the Premil textbooks

The rod of iron Jesus will rule the world with in Psalm 2 is the same rod of iron Jesus will rule the world with at his return in Rev 19.

 

[Truther]

Futurism teaches that Christ fulfilled nothing at His First Coming.

Futurism teaches that Christ's Kingdom was thwarted and defeated at His First Coming.

Futurism denies that all of the OT promises of God are yes and amen in His Son. (2 Corinthians 1:20)

Futurism denies that Christ's Church is His exclusive Chosen People.

Futurism teaches that the Covenant Confirmer of Daniel 9:27 is not Christ, but instead antichrist.

Futurism was spawned in the counterfeit counter-reformation of the historical apostasized papacy.

Futurism's teaching is Scripturally vacuous and bankrupt.

Futurism teaches that Christ died at his first coming, then resurrected....to return in the future to rule over every human physically, just like the devil has ruled them for the last 2000 years per this....

Eph. 6. [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 

[Truther]

Isaiah speaks of the resurrection of the dead, in Isaiah 26:19-27:1, and also identifies it with the time and events that surround the end of the millennium, saying, “Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead. Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast. For, behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain. In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon.”

This seems to tell us that God is keeping the dead in Christ in a safe place until the wicked events of this scene of time have finally been brought to an end and perfect righteousness has been introduced to the new earth. This tells me that the current state of sin and corruption with plagues this earth will be eliminated upon Christ’s return. The new earth that God’s glorified saints will populate will be perfect and pristine.

In this reading Isaiah testifies of the time when he personally, as an Old Testament saint, will be physically resurrected to meet the Lord at His coming. In doing so, he links this to time when “the earth shall cast out the dead.” Significantly, he relates this climactic resurrection to the dead generally and explains how it corresponds with the great judgment of the wicked, at the end, “for their iniquity.” This occasion plainly embodies all the characteristics of that impending Last Day.

Isaiah describes how this day sees the time when the wicked are raised to be judged, which as we have seen is the very same time that the Old Testament saints are also raised. The passage declares, “behold, the LORD cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.” The Hebrew word used here for slain is ‘harag’ meaning to destroy out of hand, kill, and put to death. The resurrection of the righteous must therefore assuredly happen at the end of the millennium (and Satan’s little season), the time expressly advanced as the time when Satan is finally slain.

There is such an obvious finality to this whole reading that no one could surely argue with any credence that it is speaking of anything other than the end of the world. Moreover, this climactic event also sees the complete destruction of that great enemy of the kingdom of God – that old serpent/dragon Satan and the wicked is once and for all destroyed. The resurrection of the righteous must therefore happen at the end of the millennium (and Satan’s little season), the time expressly advanced as the time when Satan is finally slain.

The day of the Lord is a 1000 year time period in general prophecy.

Jesus will return to SMITE the nations and end wars, and end satanic rulership, banning all demonic activity from the earth.

This is what we have to deal with until then....

Eph. 6. [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

....which will be banished as the Lord creates his earthly kingdom.

The Apostles were well into this prophecy too.

They asked Jesus when this event would transpire, which Jesus said it is not in their time.(Acts 1)

 

[Truther]

How exactly are a metaphor and a sign VERY different?
Signified in Rev 1:1 just means to indicate. Not "hey this book is full of signs".

Rev 1:1 sets the rules for the entire book.

It says SIGNified.

If I set up a highway system, I SIGNify it.

Every sign explains the area it rests at.

I dare not introduce good ol open ended metaphors to my highway like preterists do with the Bible, huh?

 

[Truther]

Preterism teaches replacement theology.

It teaches that God abandoned His promise to the fathers and turned them over to us today, never fulfilling His future promise to them.

It essentially teaches God lies to Abraham etc.

It teaches Israel and Judah are anyone that claims to be a Christian.

It waters down the awesome descriptions of the Millenial Kingdom to make it into a hit and miss sorta kinda miracle time of mankind as we see today(looking through a glass darkly with partial gifts to be done away at Jesus return).

It teaches that every eye shall NOT see, and every ear shall NOT hear, miracles are only sporatic and the end of wars are only internal issues of the mind.

What a complete train wreck of interpretation of God's word and promises to mankind.

 

[WPM]

Jesus is allowing satan to co-rule?...

Eph. 6. [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Where is Jesus allowing satan to co-rule?

 

[WPM]

The day of the Lord is a 1000 year time period in general prophecy.

Jesus will return to SMITE the nations and end wars, and end satanic rulership, banning all demonic activity from the earth.

This is what we have to deal with until then....

Eph. 6. [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

....which will be banished as the Lord creates his earthly kingdom.

The Apostles were well into this prophecy too.

They asked Jesus when this event would transpire, which Jesus said it is not in their time.(Acts 1)

Where in Scripture teaches that the day of the Lord is a 1000 year time period in general prophecy?

 

[WPM]

The rod of iron Jesus will rule the world with in Psalm 2 is the same rod of iron Jesus will rule the world with at his return in Rev 19.

Your pattern is to avoid completely the counter arguments that forbid your doctrine. You have to! That is typical Premillennialism. You're a battle is your opinion. I hate to burst your bubble, but that means nothing. The Scriptures are where you gain our argument.

 

[WPM]

Preterism teaches replacement theology.

It teaches that God abandoned His promise to the fathers and turned them over to us today, never fulfilling His future promise to them.

It essentially teaches God lies to Abraham etc.

It teaches Israel and Judah are anyone that claims to be a Christian.

It waters down the awesome descriptions of the Millenial Kingdom to make it into a hit and miss sorta kinda miracle time of mankind as we see today(looking through a glass darkly with partial gifts to be done away at Jesus return).

It teaches that every eye shall NOT see, and every ear shall NOT hear, miracles are only sporatic and the end of wars are only internal issues of the mind.

What a complete train wreck of interpretation of God's word and promises to mankind.

Saying you think you are such an expert. What is replacement theology? Who holds to it? And who do they believe they have replaced?

 

[Truther]

Where is Jesus allowing satan to co-rule?

Eph. 6. [12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

..by not subduing his adversary in this verse(present tense).

 

[Truther]

Where in Scripture teaches that the day of the Lord is a 1000 year time period in general prophecy?

14 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

5 And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

6 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:

7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one.



This is why time is altered in the book of Rev approaching the day of the Lord....


And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

 

[Truther]

Your pattern is to avoid completely the counter arguments that forbid your doctrine. You have to! That is typical Premillennialism. You're a battle is your opinion. I hate to burst your bubble, but that means nothing. The Scriptures are where you gain our argument.

Jesus will NOT rule mankind with a rod of iron as depicted in Psalm 2 and Rev 19?

 

[David Boyer]

Rev 1:1 sets the rules for the entire book.

It says SIGNified.

If I set up a highway system, I SIGNify it.

Every sign explains the area it rests at.

I dare not introduce good ol open ended metaphors to my highway like preterists do with the Bible, huh?

So you have no answer.
And you don't signify a highway system. You place signs on it. English is your second language it seams.

 

[Truther]

Saying you think you are such an expert. What is replacement theology? Who holds to it? And who do they believe they have replaced?

They are folks that teach God replaced His promise to Abraham etc with the church.

Preterists are the purveyors of the doctrine originating by the ancient RCC, and futurists merely, ignorantly dabble with it.

For instance, if you ask either group whom this prophecy in Hebrews 8 is about, they will say it is the church....


Heb 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:


....but in reality, we only get this per chapter 10....


15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.


....which merely includes the church into this subsection of the entire promise to future national Israel.

 

[Truther]

So you have no answer.
And you don't signify a highway system. You place signs on it. English is your second language it seams.

Signifying is signing up something.

I signified my truck with signs.

Thank goodness I did not metaphorize it, huh?

 

[David Boyer]

Signifying is signing up something.

No

 

[Truther]

No

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Signs or name signing?

 

[David Boyer]

1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Signs or name signing?

σημαίνω sēmaínō, say-mah'-ee-no; from σῆμα sēma (a mark; of uncertain derivation); to indicate:—signify.

To indicate.