aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
God doesn't violate a gay person's civil rights to marry.....He allow them to make a choice. We are the ones who have tried to stop people from doing what God allows them to do,.
Pray The Gay Away ??
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God doesn't violate a gay person's civil rights to marry.....He allow them to make a choice. We are the ones who have tried to stop people from doing what God allows them to do,.
-- God also allows people to commit rape and rob banks.
According to your point, even though God sees something as sin, since he gives us all free will, we should accept that certain people are going to commit those sins and sit on our hands, even if sitting on our hands gives the impression that we stand in support of their lifestyle.
Pretty sure that isn't the message behind the Gospel he calls us to proactively spread.
And since it seems God doesn't see it as a sin to vote against the legalization of Gay Marraige, those who vote against it are on the same legal footing as those that vote for it.
As per our legal system, if you are exercising your legal rights under the Constitution, then by definition you are not violating anyone's civil rights.
But back to my original point, if you feel God would want us NOT to vote against Gay Marraige, especially when no laws are being broken in doing so (either His or mans), I think you and he will have an interesting conversation when you eventually do meet face to face.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
-- Nope. Just pointing out that your blanket statement, "We are the ones who have tried to stop people from doing what God allows them to do" actually does nothing to support the point you are trying to make.
-- Which is exactly the opposite of what God calls us to do. The very act of spreading the Gospel as He calls us to do is the very opposite of "minding our own business."
-- Sanctioning an immoral practice, leaving people to believe there is absolutely nothing wrong with their lifestyle definitely is not 'love.'
-- But according to your own stated opinion, if we vote against Gay Marraige we are - contrary to what the law says - violating civil rights.
-- Do tell. And can you give an example of that happening today?....I mean besides your opinion about voting on Gay Marraige.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
-- Ah, my mistake. You tend to speak in generalities when specifics aren't convenient. Here you want to focus on specifics.
But that still doesn't give any validity to the idea that voting against Gay Marraige is wrong in any way, shape, form, or style.
To vote in support of it would actually be enabling sin.
Being silent or actually voting to support would give a false impression of sanction.
Again, I am pretty sure that voting to ensure that our nation supports a practice that God himself calls an abomination is not what He would want us to do.
But again, that will be a conversation that you and He will have face to face.
-- You actually need help finding a verse showing that God called us to preach the Gospel to all nations?
"And he said to them, "Go into all the world and proclaim the Gospel to the whole creation. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." - Mark 16:16
Ironically, I learned that one in Catholic school.
Matthew chapter 10 also comes to mind.
There are a number of others, as well.
Sorry, but I not going to hunt for further chapter in verse.
If after all these years you think that God's great commission is simply loving and staying out of the way, hoping that non-Christians will pick up this whole 'Jesus thing' by simply observing our pius lives, then Scripture isn't going to change your mind.
-- Unfortunately for you, God's laws and man's laws dovetail nicely. They both say you are wrong.
Yes, this is just your opinion.
But when you accuse someone of being a violator of civil rights, you really need something more than just your personal opinion.
Especially when the law, both God's and man's says otherwise.
You stated: "You can violate a person's civil rights without breaking the law."
When I asked for specific examples, you said this:
-- Ah, the old 'opinion' thing again.
It is actually the illegals who have - and stay with me here - broken...the...law
Hence the term 'illegal'
Enforcing immigration laws is not "violating civil rights"
Fact trumps opinion, I'm afraid
-- Sorry, fact shows this to be again a faulty opinion.
No one's 'civil rights' are being violated by the level of health care available in the U.S. today.
Medicaid and Medicare aside, the fact that health care is available even to illegals in this country proves you wrong.
Once more fact trumps opinion.
-- You are 0 for 3.
Even lawyers are provided for free for all.
Everyone gets their day in front of a jury of their peers.
-- Not even close.
The Geneva Convention does not protect terrorism or those who do terrorist attacks.
FDR had German spies caught in this country tried in military tribunals and then put to death.
Foreigners who commit terrorist acts outside the country are not entitled to the same rights as U.S. citizens including access to U.S. civilain courts.
The Geneva Convention accepts military trials.
Your opinion goes against world opinion and world law approved via treaty. Sorry
-- LOL You really need to look up the definition of civil rights.
People decide the law, even on pollution.
If others violate that law they are punished.
Sorry, but the fact that pollution still exists doesn't mean 'civil rights violations.'
-- Not even close.
All Americans are entitled to and are receiving education via our public and private school systems.
Even illegal aliens are currently attending school in the United States.
If choice is where you concern lies, speak with Obama. He is the one sending his daughters to private school while ending charter schools in the DC area. A highly successful program, by the way.
Teacher's unions are busy trying to do away with the rest of non-public schools.
Just read their press releases. It is their stated goal. Sorry, fact again trumps your opinion.
As far as higher education, nothing in the Constitution guarantees that for anyone.
You claiming it is a 'civil right' are using a definition for that phrase not recognized by the law. Sorry.
-- I hope you're kidding.
There are no 'civil rights violations' by moving operations overseas in order to avail yourself of cheaper labor.
No one forces those overseas to work at those facilities.
As far as domestically, you are probably one of those "living wage" people.
Problem is, you haven't thought it through.
Does a 35-year old man who never finished high school, has no marketable skills and ends up delivering pizza have the right to expect a salary that lets him rent an apartment, buy a used car, buy clothes, and still have three meals a day?
The answer is no. Why? Because the job doesn't dictate a salary for that.
If a High School student can do the job with little or no training over summer vacation or after school, then no, it is not a wage that dictates a salary that high.
A minimum wage job has always been a STARTING salary, not one you are expected to be able to live off of. Ever.
It is a starting salary for jobs such as stocking shelves, bagging groceries, delivering pizzas, etc.
You do the job well you get promoted and are given more responsibility. Had always been that way.
The job skills necessary do not dictate the higher salary.
If a higher salary is required, many businesses would go out of business. Economics 101.
An illegal in this country shouldn't even be here. The law states that companies aren't supposed to even hire them.
They are violating the law by being here and the law is being further violated by employing them.
Sorry, no civils rights in this area to even violate
Oh, and save the Wal-Mart criticism.
Their salaries START at just over one dollar above minimum wage, whether you work as a cashier, stock person, deli worker, etc.
Employees and their immediate families also receive a 10% discount on all store purchases, 20% on visionware.
The U.S. government says that Wal-Mart saves an average family over $2000 a year. Employees an extra 10% above that.
But what this all boils down to is that you have an opinion unsupported by God's or man's law and that people exercising their Constitutional rights are somehow violating the civil rights of others.
Again, fact trumps your opinion.
aspen
“"The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few
-- Ah, my mistake. You tend to speak in generalities when specifics aren't convenient.
Call me dynamic! I can and do speak generally AND specifically :)
Here you want to focus on specifics.
But that still doesn't give any validity to the idea that voting against Gay Marraige is wrong in any way, shape, form, or style.
Thank you for your opinion.
To vote in support of it would actually be enabling sin.
Being silent or actually voting to support would give a false impression of sanction.
How would it enable sin? Homosexuals are already having sex. Voting in favor of gay marriage would actually be a stand against fornication.
Again, I am pretty sure that voting to ensure that our nation supports a practice that God himself calls an abomination is not what He would want us to do.
But again, that will be a conversation that you and He will have face to face.
If I am wrong, I am wrong. God is merciful and I am forming my opinion from a place of compassion. It is not like I am going to stand before God and try to correct Him like some Reformed Calvinists I've debated.
-- You actually need help finding a verse showing that God called us to preach the Gospel to all nations?
No. I would like a verse on this comment "-- Which is exactly the opposite of what God calls us to do." Thanks.
-- Unfortunately for you, God's laws and man's laws dovetail nicely. They both say you are wrong.
Yes, this is just your opinion.
But when you accuse someone of being a violator of civil rights, you really need something more than just your personal opinion.
Especially when the law, both God's and man's says otherwise.
Who specifically, did I accuse?
-- Ah, the old 'opinion' thing again.
It is actually the illegals who have - and stay with me here - broken...the...law
Hence the term 'illegal'
Enforcing immigration laws is not "violating civil rights"
Fact trumps opinion, I'm afraid
Yep. We are both sharing our opinions - I am just being honest about it. The problem is that our farmers rely on illegal aliens to bring in their crops. Our economy relies on illegal alien to keep food prices affordable. Yet, farmers are not obligated to pay illegals minimum wages or provide them adequate housing or healthcare. Even serfs in the Middle Ages got to live on the land of the of the Lords they slaved for. It has become apparent in Alabama, that farmers need illegals more than illegals need Alabama farmers. In the case of illegal aliens and foreign corporate slave labor - you are right, they are not citizens so I must revise my opinion - their civil rights are not being violated - their human rights are.
-- Sorry, fact shows this to be again a faulty opinion.
No one's 'civil rights' are being violated by the level of health care available in the U.S. today.
Medicaid and Medicare aside, the fact that health care is available even to illegals in this country proves you wrong.
Once more fact trumps opinion.
It is my opinion that we have a right to adequate and affordable medical care. The very fact that hospitals are not allowed to turn away people supports my opinion.
-- You are 0 for 3.
Even lawyers are provided for free for all.
Everyone gets their day in front of a jury of their peers.
It is my opinion that racism plays a large role in the disproportionate amount of minorities in prison and deathrow in our country. Minorities are not treated equally in courtrooms because often they are not being judged by a jury of their peers. Class and race should be accounted for in jury selection in order to provide defendant a jury of their peers.
-- Not even close.
The Geneva Convention does not protect terrorism or those who do terrorist attacks.
FDR had German spies caught in this country tried in military tribunals and then put to death.
Foreigners who commit terrorist acts outside the country are not entitled to the same rights as U.S. citizens including access to U.S. civilain courts.
The Geneva Convention accepts military trials.
Your opinion goes against world opinion and world law approved via treaty. Sorry
The Geneva convention does not support torture, sorry. Amnesty International does not support holding terrorist in offshore prison indefinitely, sorry. How ironic it is that you turn to World opinion to support your opinion - will you be turning to the UN when it supports your position next?
-- LOL You really need to look up the definition of civil rights.
People decide the law, even on pollution.
If others violate that law they are punished.
Sorry, but the fact that pollution still exists doesn't mean 'civil rights violations.'
I believe we have the right to clean water, air, and soil. Here are examples of civil rights cases involving pollution:
South Camden Citizens in Action v. New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection
Adams v. Teck Cominco, Inc. and In the Matter of Teck Alaska, Inc.
-- Not even close.
All Americans are entitled to and are receiving education via our public and private school systems.
Even illegal aliens are currently attending school in the United States.
If choice is where you concern lies, speak with Obama. He is the one sending his daughters to private school while ending charter schools in the DC area. A highly successful program, by the way.
Violence in schools is a civil rights issue.
Impoverished public schools are a civil rights issue.
-- I hope you're kidding.
There are no 'civil rights violations' by moving operations overseas in order to avail yourself of cheaper labor.
No one forces those overseas to work at those facilities.
You are right. It is a human rights issue.
As far as domestically, you are probably one of those "living wage" people.
Of course I am! I am Catholic.
Problem is, you haven't thought it through.
Does a 35-year old man who never finished high school, has no marketable skills and ends up delivering pizza have the right to expect a salary that lets him rent an apartment, buy a used car, buy clothes, and still have three meals a day?
Not unless he is also a plumber or locksmith, but he should.
The answer is no. Why? Because the job doesn't dictate a salary for that.
If a High School student can do the job with little or no training over summer vacation or after school, then no, it is not a wage that dictates a salary that high.
We live in one of the richest countries in the world. Like Morocco and Saudi Arabia, poverty should be unknown here. Since when was Jesus into the idea of fair? Sounds like you would rather have a 'fair' world rather than a merciful world.
But what this all boils down to is that you have an opinion unsupported by God's or man's law and that people exercising their Constitutional rights are somehow violating the civil rights of others.
I disagree. I will always side with improving the conditions of the poor in our country and the World. Always.
Call me dynamic! I can and do speak generally AND specifically :)
Here you want to focus on specifics.
But that still doesn't give any validity to the idea that voting against Gay Marraige is wrong in any way, shape, form, or style.
Thank you for your opinion.
To vote in support of it would actually be enabling sin.
Being silent or actually voting to support would give a false impression of sanction.
How would it enable sin? Homosexuals are already having sex. Voting in favor of gay marriage would actually be a stand against fornication.
Again, I am pretty sure that voting to ensure that our nation supports a practice that God himself calls an abomination is not what He would want us to do.
But again, that will be a conversation that you and He will have face to face.
If I am wrong, I am wrong. God is merciful and I am forming my opinion from a place of compassion. It is not like I am going to stand before God and try to correct Him like some Reformed Calvinists I've debated.
-- You actually need help finding a verse showing that God called us to preach the Gospel to all nations?
No. I would like a verse on this comment "-- Which is exactly the opposite of what God calls us to do." Thanks.
-- Unfortunately for you, God's laws and man's laws dovetail nicely. They both say you are wrong.
Yes, this is just your opinion.
But when you accuse someone of being a violator of civil rights, you really need something more than just your personal opinion.
Especially when the law, both God's and man's says otherwise.
Who specifically, did I accuse?
-- Ah, the old 'opinion' thing again.
It is actually the illegals who have - and stay with me here - broken...the...law
Hence the term 'illegal'
Enforcing immigration laws is not "violating civil rights"
Fact trumps opinion, I'm afraid
Yep. We are both sharing our opinions - I am just being honest about it. The problem is that our farmers rely on illegal aliens to bring in their crops. Our economy relies on illegal alien to keep food prices affordable. Yet, farmers are not obligated to pay illegals minimum wages or provide them adequate housing or healthcare. Even serfs in the Middle Ages got to live on the land of the of the Lords they slaved for. It has become apparent in Alabama, that farmers need illegals more than illegals need Alabama farmers. In the case of illegal aliens and foreign corporate slave labor - you are right, they are not citizens so I must revise my opinion - their civil rights are not being violated - their human rights are.
-- Sorry, fact shows this to be again a faulty opinion.
No one's 'civil rights' are being violated by the level of health care available in the U.S. today.
Medicaid and Medicare aside, the fact that health care is available even to illegals in this country proves you wrong.
Once more fact trumps opinion.
It is my opinion that we have a right to adequate and affordable medical care. The very fact that hospitals are not allowed to turn away people supports my opinion.
-- You are 0 for 3.
Even lawyers are provided for free for all.
Everyone gets their day in front of a jury of their peers.
It is my opinion that racism plays a large role in the disproportionate amount of minorities in prison and deathrow in our country. Minorities are not treated equally in courtrooms because often they are not being judged by a jury of their peers. Class and race should be accounted for in jury selection in order to provide defendant a jury of their peers.
-- Not even close.
The Geneva Convention does not protect terrorism or those who do terrorist attacks.
FDR had German spies caught in this country tried in military tribunals and then put to death.
Foreigners who commit terrorist acts outside the country are not entitled to the same rights as U.S. citizens including access to U.S. civilain courts.
The Geneva Convention accepts military trials.
Your opinion goes against world opinion and world law approved via treaty. Sorry
The Geneva convention does not support torture, sorry. Amnesty International does not support holding terrorist in offshore prison indefinitely, sorry. How ironic it is that you turn to World opinion to support your opinion - will you be turning to the UN when it supports your position next?
-- LOL You really need to look up the definition of civil rights.
People decide the law, even on pollution.
If others violate that law they are punished.
Sorry, but the fact that pollution still exists doesn't mean 'civil rights violations.'
I believe we have the right to clean water, air, and soil. Here are examples of civil rights cases involving pollution:
South Camden Citizens in Action v. New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection
Adams v. Teck Cominco, Inc. and In the Matter of Teck Alaska, Inc.
-- Not even close.
All Americans are entitled to and are receiving education via our public and private school systems.
Even illegal aliens are currently attending school in the United States.
If choice is where you concern lies, speak with Obama. He is the one sending his daughters to private school while ending charter schools in the DC area. A highly successful program, by the way.
Violence in schools is a civil rights issue.
Impoverished public schools are a civil rights issue.
-- I hope you're kidding.
There are no 'civil rights violations' by moving operations overseas in order to avail yourself of cheaper labor.
No one forces those overseas to work at those facilities.
You are right. It is a human rights issue.
As far as domestically, you are probably one of those "living wage" people.
Of course I am! I am Catholic.
Problem is, you haven't thought it through.
Does a 35-year old man who never finished high school, has no marketable skills and ends up delivering pizza have the right to expect a salary that lets him rent an apartment, buy a used car, buy clothes, and still have three meals a day?
Not unless he is also a plumber or locksmith, but he should.
The answer is no. Why? Because the job doesn't dictate a salary for that.
If a High School student can do the job with little or no training over summer vacation or after school, then no, it is not a wage that dictates a salary that high.
We live in one of the richest countries in the world. Like Morocco and Saudi Arabia, poverty should be unknown here. Since when was Jesus into the idea of fair? Sounds like you would rather have a 'fair' world rather than a merciful world.
But what this all boils down to is that you have an opinion unsupported by God's or man's law and that people exercising their Constitutional rights are somehow violating the civil rights of others.
I disagree. I will always side with improving the conditions of the poor in our country and the World. Always.
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