A Form of godliness

[marks]

That fact that Jesus supposedly talked about his existence is not preexistence? How do you define preexistence?

Like, when Jesus said He shared glory with the Father before the world existed, I'm thinking that He meant He was sharing glory with the Father before the world existed. So if he wasn't really there, it would make that passage untrue. I think it is in fact true, myself. But I won't be surprised should you tell me you don't believe that He really meant what He said. I hear that a lot.

Much love!

 

[marks]

No. Bye.

I didn't think so. So then you've joined a forum that affirms things, and who's members are to affirm the same things, but you do not. Is that an example of integrity?

I'm asking a question. If you don't like the answer, don't blame me. I actually from the heart affirm these doctrines which I agreed to when I joined.

Much love!

 

[Raccoon1010]

2 Tim 3:5,

Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
​

Clearly the folks Paul is talking about are not actually godly at all. Note verses 1-4 make that clear. However it is equally clear they have a "form" of godliness. Apparently someone being in the "form" of something else does not make that person to actually be that something.

Phil 2:6,

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
​

What is it that makes this verse's usage of "form" any different? Why is it that here one person, i.e., Jesus, being in the "form" of someone else, i.e., God, make Jesus to actually be God?

​

Jesus walked on water, calmed the tempests, healed many people and even resurrected some and himself. Multiplied bread and fish. None of us in the image of God can do any of that. But we are promised to do greater miracles. Given that God performs them with them being knowledge to it. But I'm not seeing them. And no one can predict the future like God does. No one can create the heavens and earth. God is almighty and we are nothing, but dust.

You seem stuck on this idea of being in the form of God. Not really sure why.

 

[Rich R]

Jesus walked on water, calmed the tempests, healed many people and even resurrected some and himself. None of us in the image of God can do any of that. But we are promised to do greater miracles. Given that God performs them with them being knowledge to it. But I'm not seeing them. And no one can predict the future like God does. No one can create the heavens and earth. God is almighty and we are nothing, but dust.

You seem stuck on this idea of being in the form of God. Not really sure why.

I totally agree with your first paragraph. I will add that the reason we don't see the promise of doing greater works is a simple matter of unbelief.

Matt 13:58,

And he (Jesus) did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
​

Even Jesus was stymied by the lack of belief in that region of his home town.

Regarding the second paragraph, sorry, but I'm not sure of what you are saying. It was God's idea to bring up being in the form of God, not mine. I didn't write the book. :)

 

[Raccoon1010]

I totally agree with your first paragraph. I will add that the reason we don't see the promise of doing greater works is a simple matter of unbelief.

Matt 13:58,

And he (Jesus) did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.
​

Even Jesus was stymied by the lack of belief in that region of his home town.

Regarding the second paragraph, sorry, but I'm not sure of what you are saying. It was God's idea to bring up being in the form of God, not mine. I didn't write the book. :)

Faith doesn't heal people, God does. It's like being saved by "Grace" thru faith. You could have all the faith in the world and still not be saved without God saving you. It's the same with miracles. God has to provide them for it to work.

Being in the form of God just means we "look" similar. But God has unlimited IQ and Power. His spirit is throughout the entire universe with power to create worlds. Our spirits reside in our bodies. We are vastly different.

 

[marks]

You seem stuck on this idea of being in the form of God. Not really sure why.

It's a component to his anti-trinity argument, is what I'm seeing. He can correct me if I'm wrong.

The idea is that we can "have a form of godliness" yet not be godly, so his logic is, Jesus was in the form of God, but wasn't God. Even though different words for "form" are used, one meaning to be in the same form, the other more like appearance. But he blends the meanings as if they were the same, to make this argument of false equivalencies.

Much love!

 

[Raccoon1010]

It's a component to his anti-trinity argument, is what I'm seeing. He can correct me if I'm wrong.

The idea is that we can "have a form of godliness" yet not be godly, so his logic is, Jesus was in the form of God, but wasn't God. Even though different words for "form" are used, one meaning to be in the same form, the other more like appearance. But he blends the meanings as if they were the same, to make this argument of false equivalencies.

Much love!

I came into this thread a little late. I guess I was going off of logic from one of his other threads. But yeah, the Bible says that Jesus is God and it also quotes Jesus as saying "Why callest me good, there is none good save for God". Many believe that Jesus was made into and part of God when he succeeded in life and conquered sin and death. But he also said he received the command to resurrect himself from the Father.

Personally I believe that anyone that can perform all the miracles he did and resurrect himself is a God.

 

[Rich R]

Faith doesn't heal people, God does. It's like being saved by "Grace" thru faith. You could have all the faith in the world and still not be saved without God saving you. It's the same with miracles. God has to provide them for it to work.

Being in the form of God just means we "look" similar. But God has unlimited IQ and Power. His spirit is throughout the entire universe with power to create worlds. Our spirits reside in our bodies. We are vastly different.

Very well said. Reminds me of:

Heb 11:6,

But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
​

We have Christ in us (Col 1:27) and God was in Christ (2 Cor 5:19).

 

[Rich R]

I came into this thread a little late. I guess I was going off of logic from one of his other threads. But yeah, the Bible says that Jesus is God and it also quotes Jesus as saying "Why callest me good, there is none good save for God". Many believe that Jesus was made into and part of God when he succeeded in life and conquered sin and death. But he also said he received the command to resurrect himself from the Father.

Personally I believe that anyone that can perform all the miracles he did and resurrect himself is a God.

Jesus said we can do the works he did and even greater works. We also will be raised from the dead.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Jesus said we can do the works he did and even greater works. We also will be raised from the dead.

I think Jesus (with the Father) will resurrect us and Jesus is the way of that resurrection having conquered hell and death and having the keys of them. He already raised someone that had been dead 4 days which is a type of resurrection, just not glorified resurrection (John 11:38-44). The passage that explains Jesus doing Godly works by resurrecting himself is John 10:18.

 

[Jack]

Speculation, offsetting 5,000 times God is referred to using singular pronouns.

You don't even believe the NWT. It says the same thing! US and OUR referring to God of the Bible. You obviously have a different God and savior than the Christian Bible.

NWT, Gen 1 God said, let US make man in OUR image according to OUR likeness.

Friend, in the NAME of all that is holy and good (not names); this is normal language usage.

Are there any verses in the Bible that Kingdom Hall doesn't TWIST to mean something different?

 

[Raccoon1010]

I think it's also important to note that all will bow to Jesus:

Philippians 2:10-11
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

 

[Wrangler]

God called Himself "US" and "OUR".

Speculation, offsetting 5,000 times God is referred to using singular pronouns.

Friend, in the NAME of all that is holy and good (not names); this is normal language usage.

verse 26, God refers to Himself plurally.

Hmmm. I wonder if Pinseeker believes if another person "seconds" my post, that makes me right? How in the world do you suppose repeating what another poster wrote advances the conversation? Just doing laps.

He's plural - in this 1 verse
He's singular in <5,000 verses
He's plural - in this 1 verse​

Well, I guess you win. No need to address Scripture with Scripture in how you rationalize one verse supersedes 5,000 verses.

 

[Jack]

Speculation, offsetting 5,000 times God is referred to using singular pronouns.

Quoting God is not "speculation" no matter how many times Kingdom Hall tells that lie! God referred to Himself as OUR and US.

 

[Jack]

Friend, in the NAME of all that is holy and good (not names); this is normal language usage.

NAME is referring to Father, Son and Holy Spirit, SINGULAR, just like Gen 1, God referring to Himself as US and OUR! You really should let Kingdom Hall go to Hell where they are heading and start believing the Bible. Don't burn in Hell with Kingdom Hall!

 

[Wrangler]

Quoting God is not "speculation" no matter how many times Kingdom Hall tells that lie! God referred to Himself as OUR and US.

LOL I did not say your quoting God was speculating. Claiming his words mean he was referring to himself in the plural is speculating. But I'm sure you knew that.

 

[Wrangler]

NAME is referring to Father, Son and Holy Spirit, SINGULAR

Friend, in the NAME of all that is holy and good (not names); this is normal language usage.

Yes, NAME is referring to ALL that is holy and good, SINGULAR.

 

[Jack]

LOL I did not say your quoting God was speculating. Claiming his words mean he was referring to himself in the plural is speculating. But I'm sure you knew that.

Even a little child can understand that God is referring to Himself, US and OUR. Kingdom Hall won't be able to help you on Judgment Day. They will be shaking in their shoes themselves.

 

[Jack]

Yes, NAME is referring to ALL that is holy and good, SINGULAR.

The JW TWIST! Serve God, not the WatchTower lies, leading JW's to HELL FIRE.

 

[APAK]

Yes. The Greek of 2 Timothy 3:5 is μόρφωσιν (morphōsis), while the Greek of Philippians 2:6 is μορφῇ (morphē). In the 2 Timothy verse, Paul is presenting a false form of the quality of godliness (therefore, not possessing the true quality), while in the Philippians 2 verses he is presenting the true form of God (the true thing itself). This is not mystical; it is what it is.

Grace and peace to all.

I already stated in two posts, at least by implication, that the use of 'form' is used in both verses, and yes one is a false form in 1 Tim and the other in Phil, is a genuine form.

So what is your exact point PinSeeker as I seem to agree with you if you can come through and explain the use of form in Phil as a 'true thing itself' idea a bit...? I already know I will not agree with you on this point, although I might be surprised by your answer.