22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[jeffweeder]

I disagree as post #5178 above clearly explains, Luke 21:24-28 are future events unfulfilled

Extreismism would be found in those that support the false preterist reformed eschatology in 66-70AD fulfillment of Luke 21:24-28

Jesus Is The Lord

They describe 70AD perfectly. Jesus was right and his discourse / prophecy is partially fulfilled.

 

[Truth7t7]

They describe 70AD perfectly. Jesus was right and his discourse / prophecy is partially fulfilled.

I disagree as post #5178 above clearly explains, Luke 21:24-28 are future events unfulfilled

 

[jeffweeder]

I disagree as post #5178 above clearly explains, Luke 21:24-28 are future events unfulfilled

Your opinion is clearly explained.
There is no getting around the FACT that some events have happened already.


What do you make of this in Lk 21 ...,

5 As some were talking about the temple, that it was decorated with beautiful stones and consecrated offerings [of magnificent gifts of gold which were displayed on the walls and hung in the porticoes], He said, 6 “As for all these things which you see, the time will come when there will not be one stone left on another that will not be torn down.”

7 They asked Him, “Teacher, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign when these things are about to happen?” 8 He said, “Be careful and see to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name [appropriating for themselves the name Messiah which belongs to Me alone], saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time is near!’ Do not follow them. 9 When you hear of wars and disturbances [civil unrest, revolts, uprisings], do not panic; for these things must take place first, but the end will not come immediately.”


20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by [hostile] armies, then understand [with confident assurance] that her complete destruction is near. 21 At that time, those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are inside the city (Jerusalem) must get out, and those who are [out] in the country must not enter the city; 22 for these are days of vengeance [of rendering full justice or satisfaction], so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.


The end did not come immediately did it. They had the longest exile to endure before the end. The Gospel had to be preached in the remotest parts of earth before the coming of the Lord at the end of the age.

So, it makes a lot of sense.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I Disagree, The Time Of The Gentiles is a future
event of armies surrounding Jerusalem, that will be a sign that precedes the Lord's second coming as seen in Luke 21:24-28 below

Has this been started in the reformed preterist 66-70AD Jerusalem, and been in the making 2,000 years and waiting "No". This is just reformed preterist eschatology falsely bridging the gap from 66-70AD Jerusalem, to the future second coming of Jesus Christ

The reformed teaching above is comparable to the Pre-Mill crowd's phony 2,000 year gap between the 69th and 70th week of Daniel and waiting, no different

Is a 2,000 year gap in time seen between verses 24-28 below "Absolutely Not" the generation that witnesses Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, will also witness the literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ

Jesus Is The Lord

"Future Events Unfulfilled"

Luke 21:24-32KJV
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Another robotic auto response from you. You seem incapable of forming any new thoughts or specifically addressing what others say. I'm not sure why I gave you another chance, but I'm just not willing to deal with your repetitiveness anymore.

 

[Truth7t7]

Your opinion is clearly explained.
There is no getting around the FACT that some events have happened already.


What do you make of this in Lk 21 ...,

5 As some were talking about the temple, that it was decorated with beautiful stones and consecrated offerings [of magnificent gifts of gold which were displayed on the walls and hung in the porticoes], He said, 6 “As for all these things which you see, the time will come when there will not be one stone left on another that will not be torn down.”

Not one word of Matthew Chapter 24 was fulfilled in the preterist reformed claims of 66-70AD Jerusalem

"But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body" Not A Literal Temple In Jerusalem That Took 46 Years To Build, Read It Again And Again "Before Your Eyes"!

It Appears That You Are Bound By Reformed "Preterist" Eschatology In 66-70AD Fulfillment

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[Truth7t7]

7 They asked Him, “Teacher, when will these things happen? And what will be the sign when these things are about to happen?” 8 He said, “Be careful and see to it that you are not misled; for many will come in My name [appropriating for themselves the name Messiah which belongs to Me alone], saying, ‘I am He,’ and, ‘The time is near!’ Do not follow them. 9 When you hear of wars and disturbances [civil unrest, revolts, uprisings], do not panic; for these things must take place first, but the end will not come immediately.”

20 “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by [hostile] armies, then understand [with confident assurance] that her complete destruction is near. 21 At that time, those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are inside the city (Jerusalem) must get out, and those who are [out] in the country must not enter the city; 22 for these are days of vengeance [of rendering full justice or satisfaction], so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.


The end did not come immediately did it. They had the longest exile to endure before the end. The Gospel had to be preached in the remotest parts of earth before the coming of the Lord at the end of the age.

So, it makes a lot of sense.

Is a 2,000 year gap in time seen between verses 24-28 below "Absolutely Not" the generation that witnesses Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, will also witness the literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ

Jesus Is The Lord

"Future Events Unfulfilled"

"This Generation Shall Not Pass Away, Till All Be Fulfilled"

Luke 21:24-32KJV
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

 

[Truth7t7]

Another robotic auto response from you. You seem incapable of forming any new thoughts or specifically addressing what others say. I'm not sure why I gave you another chance, but I'm just not willing to deal with your repetitiveness anymore.

I Fully Understand, Because You Have No Response To The Biblical Truth Presented

The Future Generation That Witnesses Jerusalem Surrounded By Armies, Will Also Witness The Literal, Visible, Second Coming Of Jesus Christ, It's That Simple

Reformed Preterist Eschatology In 66-70AD Fulfillment Is A Farce, Just As A Pre-Trib Rapture And Millennial Kingdom On Earth Is A Farce

 

[jeffweeder]

Not one word of Matthew Chapter 24 was fulfilled in the preterist reformed claims of 66-70AD Jerusalem

"But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body" Not A Literal Temple In Jerusalem That Took 46 Years To Build, Read It Again And Again "Before Your Eyes"!

It Appears That You Are Bound By Your "Preterist" Eschatology In 66-70AD Fulfillment

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

Thats a big stretch Bro.
The disciples were pointing out the stones etc of the temple.

5 As some were talking about the temple, that it was decorated with beautiful stones and consecrated offerings [of magnificent gifts of gold which were displayed on the walls and hung in the porticoes],
He said,
6 “As for all these things which you see, the time will come when there will not be one stone left on another that will not be torn down.”

Then they saw it, now we don't.... Jesus was right within a generation.

 

[jeffweeder]

Is a 2,000 year gap in time seen between verses 24-28 below "Absolutely Not" the generation that witnesses Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, will also witness the literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ

Jesus Is The Lord

"Future Events Unfulfilled"

"This Generation Shall Not Pass Away, Till All Be Fulfilled"

Luke 21:24-32KJV
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

There is a gap of some kind because the end does not come immediately right?
How long do you think this Gap will be?

Using Scripture v24 suggests the times of the Gentiles over Jerusalem must be fulfilled before other signs take place.
When did Gentile rule over Jerusalem end? Was it 1967?.

Makes even more sense now.
Makes more sense than your theory that God would skip over the worst time in Jewish history without warning them, so you can project the whole thing happing in the future.... that's after the Jews return to Jerusalem before they are exiled yet again.

1. Daniel 9:10
   and we have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God by walking in His laws which He set before us through His servants the prophets.
   
   
2. Amos 3:7
   Surely the Lord God does nothing Without revealing His secret plan [of the judgment to come] To His servants the prophets.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

For the umpteenth time, I believe God when He told Abraham he would produce the biological nation Israel--Abraham's actual descendants forming into a nation of faith. And He then extended that promise to include many nations of faith.

How does that support my view? All of these things have happened, and yet have failed in the present and past ages. They have not yet come to fulfillment. Unless you think God lies, He will produce the fulfillment of these promises to Abraham after the 2nd Coming of Christ.

It's always ridiculous when someone says something like "Unless you think God lies". Do you really think I would believe that God would ever lie? I'm sure you don't believe that I would think that, so why say something like that?

How does my disagreeing with your understanding of God's word equate to believing that God is lying? Give me a break. I believe you are wrong, not God. Obviously. You seem to just completely ignore what Paul wrote about God's promises to Abraham and his seed in Galatians 3:16-29 where he applied the promises to Christ and those who belong to Christ. Oh well. I can't force you to see the truth. It's your decision whether to believe what you want to believe or believe what scripture teaches even if it doesn't line up with what you currently believe.

The Prophets of the Bible proclaimed the coming of the Messianic Kingdom in which all of these things will come to pass. They will never fail again, as they have in the present and past ages.

His kingdom has come and we're in it now. It has not failed at all. I can't even believe some of the things you say. His kingdom has succeeded spectacularly. How many people were saved in Old Testament times, Randy? Not nearly as many as in New Testament times. But, you say what the prophets prophesied about the coming Messianic kingdom has failed so far? No way!

Randy, is Jesus your King right now? He is, right? So, do you understand that means you're in His kingdom? He's not a King without a kingdom.

Colossians 1:13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.

I don't understand why you deny explicit scripture like this which tells us that we're in His kingdom now. Can you explain that?

Yes, thank you. The verse doesn't prove anything, but provides an allusion to what many have thought God's timetable would be. Sounds about right, to me?

It has no allusion to that whatsoever. It could have said a day is as a million years to the Lord and that wouldn't have changed the point at all. The point is that time has no effect on the Lord which then means it can't be said that He is being slow to return no matter how long He takes to return. This has nothing whatsoever to do with Revelation 20.

Yes, when what I saw reflects truth that is in Scripture I don't always need to quote it. It's truth I'm after--not just quoting Scriptures. Lots of people quote Scriptures and still do not tell the truth.

You can't be expected to be taken seriously if you do nothing to show how you came to believe what you're claiming. I don't know why you don't understand that. No one is just going to take your word for it. Show us why you believe what you do. The only way to do that is to quote some scripture. Your words mean nothing without accompanying scriptural support. That goes for the rest of us as well.

Paul said our inheritance is with Christ in heaven. We on earth have signed onto this Salvation. We own it. But we won't actually inherit this Kingdom until it comes.

Yes, the kingdom in its fullness is something we are still waiting to inherit, but you don't seem to want to acknowledge that we're in His kingdom in any way, shape or form even now. Why is that? Instead, you just call it a down payment and things like this. Us being spiritually in His kingdom as His priests (Rev 1:5-6) means more than just having a down payment. We serve our King in His kingdom right now while we wait for the kingdom to be manifested in its fullness, free of sin and death once and for all.

None of us are in the Eschatological Kingdom, which *is not yet here!* You're just talking about owning a down payment on our Salvation, which of course we all have, if we're truly saved. A down payment is *not the whole thing!*

I don't like the way you put that. Our current status in Christ is more than just a down payment. You act as if right now we're just kind of laying around waiting for the kingdom to come. No, the kingdom has come in a spiritual way and we're very active in it right now. Jesus is King of kings and Lord of lords right now. He was placed at the right hand of the Father above all things and everything that is named (Eph 1:19-22) long ago.

Don't you understand that God's dwelling in us through the Spirit is *not the inception of God's eschatological Kingdom!*

Of course I understand that the kingdom in its fullness is something we still look forward to inheriting, but I don't like how you try to (seemingly) diminish the importance and power of His spiritual kingdom right now. It's as if His kingdom right now does not mean anything to you. I don't get that.

You're entitled to your opinion. My opinion is that the *eschatological Kingdom* is not yet on the earth. The Kingdom of heaven is still in heaven, and is indeed spiritual. As such, it is able to impact the earth through salvation and through judgment. But it is *not yet here!*

Christ's spiritual kingdom that does not come with observation (Luke 17:20) is here right now. You don't seem to want to acknowledge that His kingdom is here in any way, shape or form right now and that's troubling.

When Jesus was here the Jewish leaders tried to pass themselves off as representatives of God's Kingdom. They had been called to such, but they had failed. They had owned a temporal form of the Kingdom, but in failing to live by the Law they lost the Kingdom of God to the Gentile world.

No, they lost it to Christ's church consisting of Jew and Gentile believers. Unbelievers were cut off (see Romans 11).

These Jewish leaders were not able to see the Kingdom of God "with observation." They were looking for deliverance from Rome instead of looking to their own need for repentance. They utterly failed to see in Jesus the King over that future Kingdom.

No, they failed to see Him as King of the kingdom He was setting up back then. When asked if He was the King of the Jews (not if He would be - if He was at the time), He said that He was. But, you say that He's not yet.

Jesus comes with his angels, and *then* he gathers the nations. Perhaps this comes during the course of the Millennium? I don't at all see it happened *at the 2nd Coming!*

Matt 25.31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats."

What this says is that at the time Jesus returns he will *sit on his throne.* It does not say he will immediately gather all nations. It does not say they had already been gathered for that moment.

LOL. This is one of the worst cases of doctrinal bias I've ever seen. Why would He delay gathering people together to judge them after He returns? That makes no sense. There is no indication in the text whatsoever that there will be a delay after He comes with His angels to judge all people.

Other scripture also shows all people being judged when He returns. Do you believe that He will return at the end of the age (Matthew 24:3)? If so, then read Matthew 13:36-43 and Matthew 13:47-50 which both depict all people being judged at the end of the age.

Obviously, if someone is going to gather nations, it is going to take time. I surmise that when Jesus is sitting on his throne, ruling over the world during the Millennium, he will be in the process of gathering nations. Some will become Christian nations. Some will become pagan nations.

LOL. More extreme doctrinal bias. Are you forgetting who we're talking about here? Jesus is God. Do you think maybe He can do things a bit quicker than a normal person can? When we are caught up to meet Him at His return, do you think that will take a lot of time?

The judgment will take place in eternity, anyway, so time won't be a factor at all.

But the point is, God will be selecting who is righteous and who is not. And at the end of the Millennium he will dispatch the wicked to their place in outer darkness. But the righteous he will give a place in his fellowship forever.

You call this bias. I call it just as I see it.

Again, this is one of the worst cases of bias I've ever seen. It's very extreme. There is no indication of a long period of time occurring in Matthew 25:31-46 whatsoever. You have to twist the text to fit it in.

 

[Truth7t7]

Thats a big stretch Bro.
The disciples were pointing out the stones etc of the temple.

5 As some were talking about the temple, that it was decorated with beautiful stones and consecrated offerings [of magnificent gifts of gold which were displayed on the walls and hung in the porticoes],
He said,
6 “As for all these things which you see, the time will come when there will not be one stone left on another that will not be torn down.”

Then they saw it, now we don't.... Jesus was right within a generation.

"We Disagree", Reformed Eschatology concerning the temple destruction being a literal temple of stone in 66-70AD fulfillment , would be in comparison to the pharisees believing the same as seen below

The fulfillment of the temple destruction was fulfilled on the cross of Calvary, when the veil was torn in the temples holy place from top to bottom, the temple was destroyed not one stone upon another "symbolically" in the spiritual "Gone"!

Jesus Is The Lord

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Thats a big stretch Bro.
The disciples were pointing out the stones etc of the temple.

5 As some were talking about the temple, that it was decorated with beautiful stones and consecrated offerings [of magnificent gifts of gold which were displayed on the walls and hung in the porticoes],
He said,
6 “As for all these things which you see, the time will come when there will not be one stone left on another that will not be torn down.”

Then they saw it, now we don't.... Jesus was right within a generation.

Apparently, he thinks that when Jesus said "see all these things?" and proceeded to tell them they would all be destroyed with no stone left upon another He was talking about His body parts.

 

[covenantee]

"We Disagree", Reformed Eschatology concerning the temple destruction being a literal temple of stone in 66-70AD fulfillment , would be in comparison to the pharisees believing the same as seen below

Jesus Is The Lord

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

In the parallel accounts in Matthew 24 and Luke 21, the occasion is the Olivet discourse, and the occasion begins with the disciples who were present pointing to and commenting on the physical stones of the physical temple.

In the non-parallel account in John 2, the occasion is Jesus' cleansing of the temple, and no disciples are pointing to and commenting on any physical stones of the temple.

After Jesus' resurrection, Scripture records that the disciples remembered Jesus' words relating to His temple on the occasion of the cleansing of the temple.

Nowhere does Scripture record that the disciples remembered Jesus' words relating to the temple on the occasion of the Olivet discourse.

There is no prophetic connection between the two occasions.

Your futurism is a fantasy and a fallacy.

 

[Truth7t7]

There is a gap of some kind because the end does not come immediately right?
How long do you think this Gap will be?

Using Scripture v24 suggests the times of the Gentiles over Jerusalem must be fulfilled before other signs take place.
When did Gentile rule over Jerusalem end? Was it 1967?.

Makes even more sense now.
Makes more sense than your theory that God would skip over the worst time in Jewish history without warning them, so you can project the whole thing happing in the future.... that's after the Jews return to Jerusalem before they are exiled yet again.

1. Daniel 9:10
   and we have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God by walking in His laws which He set before us through His servants the prophets.
   
   
2. Amos 3:7
   Surely the Lord God does nothing Without revealing His secret plan [of the judgment to come] To His servants the prophets.

We Strongly Disagree

Scripture is very clear, Jerusalem being surrounded by armies was one of the signs mentioned, and once again and again, the generation that witnesses this sign will not pass till "All" is fulfilled, including the future literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ

Is a 2,000 year gap in time seen between verses 24-28 below "Absolutely Not" the generation that witnesses Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, will also witness the literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ

Jesus Is The Lord

"Future Events Unfulfilled"

"This Generation Shall Not Pass Away, Till All Be Fulfilled"

Luke 21:24-32KJV
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Wisdom dictates that one should not use disputed passages to make a case. If a certain group of people dismiss a particular passage, it is fruitless to use it in a debate.

Jesus knew this. For instance, the Sadducees believed that the first five books of the Bible alone were authoritative. Thus, when Jesus argued with the Sadducees, he cited passages from the first five books.

This seems like a cop out. What are you afraid of here?

Let me just spell out why I'm asking this. Earlier, you said that the animal sacrifices would not be for the atonement of sins. But, the animal sacrifices described in Ezekiel 40-48 would be for the atonement of sins, as described in Ezekiel 45:15-17. So, what are your thoughts on that?

 

[jeffweeder]

jeffweeder said: ↑

There is a gap of some kind because the end does not come immediately right?
How long do you think this Gap will be?

Using Scripture v24 suggests the times of the Gentiles over Jerusalem must be fulfilled before other signs take place.
When did Gentile rule over Jerusalem end? Was it 1967?.

Makes even more sense now.
Makes more sense than your theory that God would skip over the worst time in Jewish history without warning them, so you can project the whole thing happing in the future.... that's after the Jews return to Jerusalem before they are exiled yet again.

1. Daniel 9:10
   and we have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God by walking in His laws which He set before us through His servants the prophets.
   
   
2. Amos 3:7
   Surely the Lord God does nothing Without revealing His secret plan [of the judgment to come] To His servants the prophets.

​

Good post.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

We Strongly Disagree

Scripture is very clear, Jerusalem being surrounded by armies was one of the signs mentioned, and once again and again, the generation that witnesses this sign will not pass till "All" is fulfilled, including the future literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ

Is a 2,000 year gap in time seen between verses 24-28 below "Absolutely Not" the generation that witnesses Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, will also witness the literal, visible, second coming of Jesus Christ

Jesus Is The Lord

"Future Events Unfulfilled"

"This Generation Shall Not Pass Away, Till All Be Fulfilled"

Luke 21:24-32KJV
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees;
30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.
31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.
32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Let's take a break from the repetitive back and forth for a minute and look at this from another angle. If Jerusalem will be surrounded by armies in the future, then who do you think that will be (what armies?) and why?

Luke 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

This here indicates that what Jerusalem being surrounded by armies and being made desolate relates to is "wrath upon this people". So, it's talking about God's wrath here. Is that your understanding of what Luke 21:20-24 is about? Do you think He is going to destroy Jerusalem in the future?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Good post.

I mean, it is your post, so it would be weird if you didn't think it was a good post.

 

[Truth7t7]

In the parallel accounts in Matthew 24 and Luke 21, the occasion is the Olivet discourse, and the occasion begins with the disciples who were present pointing to and commenting on the physical stones of the physical temple.

In the non-parallel account in John 2, the occasion is Jesus' cleansing of the temple, and no disciples are pointing to and commenting on any physical stones of the temple.

After Jesus' resurrection, Scripture records that the disciples remembered Jesus' words relating to His temple on the occasion of the cleansing of the temple.

Nowhere does Scripture record that the disciples remembered Jesus' words relating to the temple on the occasion of the Olivet discourse.

There is no prophetic connection between the two occasions.

Your futurism is a fantasy and a fallacy.

John was at the same temple visit when the money changers were driven out, his account clearly shows the subject was the destruction of the Lord's body, and not a literal temple made of stones

"But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body" Not A Literal Temple In Jerusalem That Took 46 Years To Build, Read It Again And Again "Before Your Eyes"!

It Appears That You Are Bound By Your "Preterist" Eschatology In 66-70AD Fulfillment

(But He Spake Of The Temple Of His Body)

John 2:19-22KJV
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Really? He does this quite often.

Does what? I can't read your mind. Give me an example of what you're talking about.