The Impassable Great Gulf in Hell: No legs to walk with

[Phoneman777]

Jesus was dealing with the specific opposition in His day, that He is Christ, Lord, and God. Not a blasphemous created christ of his own making.

Which still goes on today.

Good...so WHO were opposing His divinity in His day? They same people to whom He delivered parabolic warning after warning, right?
he mythological errors of pagan Greeks about it.

 

[robert derrick]

The fact that death is cast into the lake of fire says something about the lake of fire and it's affect on death doesn't it?

Revelation 21:4
4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

Yes. There is no more death in the new heaven and earth.

The wicked in the lake of fire must continue with spiritual death from God forever.

 

[Raccoon1010]

Yes. There is no more death in the new heaven and earth.

The wicked in the lake of fire must continue with spiritual death from God forever.

That sounds like an assumption. I don't follow how you assessed that it was "spiritual" death.

 

[robert derrick]

Good...so WHO were opposing His divinity in His day? They same people to whom He delivered parabolic warning after warning, right?
he mythological errors of pagan Greeks about it.

Those rejecting Jesus as God, also turn His words from the spoken truth of God, into the parables of men.

Like the naturally minded of old, they say He was only a man in the flesh, so how can He know the hidden things of the Spirit?

And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

The natural man says man can only learn what men teach, and cannot know by revelation what only the Spirit can teach.

And so, they cling to making parables of things they don't like revealed by God plainly to any man that will believe Him, rather than trust in men that believe and teach only what they want to see with eyes and ears of flesh and blood:

Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?

 

[Phoneman777]

Those rejecting Jesus as God, also turn His words from the spoken truth of God, into the parables of men.

Like the naturally minded of old, they say He was only a man in the flesh, so how can He know the hidden things of the Spirit?

And the Jews marvelled, saying, How knoweth this man letters, having never learned?

The natural man says man can only learn what men teach, and cannot know by revelation what only the Spirit can teach.

And so, they cling to making parables of things they don't like revealed by God plainly to any man that will believe Him, rather than trust in men that believe and teach only what they want to see with eyes and ears of flesh and blood:

Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables?

WHO...WHO WERE THE PEOPLE REJECTING THE WORD OF GOD IN JESUS' DAY? WHO did He constantly warn - in Person, face to face, race to race, mouth to ear - in parables about what would be their fate?

 

[Robert Gwin]

The natural minded men that read Scripture, and try to change it, can show certain mysteries of Scripture by their errors.

They symbolize hell and souls in hell as parables only, because for them only natural bodies have eyes, ears, and tongues. And in the process they say souls don't have legs either apart from the mortal body.

According to Scripture that last part may be true, because Jesus did not say anything about Abraham, Lazarus, and the tormented rich man in hell having legs, but only eyes, ears, and tongues to see, hear, and speak with: But no legs to move with.

And so, that would be why they could speak and hear, but could not walk and move from place to place.

The great gulf is the fixed place between the righteous in Abraham's bosom in hell, and the unrighteous in flames of hell, but as with many times, the natural mind assumes certain things, such as great being that of distance.

Being great in Scripture can be that of great good or evil, and also that of distance or strength.

The gulf between the two is fixed, because the souls are fixed in place, and cannot walk and move from one place to the other, nor even one spot to another, and it has nothing to do with distance between each soul, because they are able to talk with one another, as nearby neighbors.

This is why they are called the spirits in prison: each of them is imprisoned in a strong fixed place without possibility of moving around.

And so that great gulf is not a matter of distance, but of immovability, so that the soul in flames could talk with the soul not in flames, but neither of them could move to join or help the other.

This also shows the love of Abraham for all his children, whether good or evil, so that if he could have done as asked, then he would have: This is the same of course for the Lord God of Abraham.

This also shows that right next to the tormented rich man in hell, was water that those in Abraham's bosom could drink.

That is torment indeed.

Hell is an extremely interesting topic Rob, it is sad that people are unaware that it is the simple abode of the dead, and everyone who dies goes there. Jesus went there when he died, and of course he got out, and the positive news is that everyone who resides there will be called back to life. Hell is going to be emptied and cast into the lake of fire as it will no longer be needed Rev 20:13,14. That is part of the good news Rob.

 

[robert derrick]

That sounds like an assumption. I don't follow how you assessed that it was "spiritual" death.

Souls only die spiritually, even as angels, because souls are spiritual beings.

The sinning soul is therefore dead spiritually, being now apart and separated from the Spirit and life of Christ.

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens.

These be they who separate themselves, sensual, having not the Spirit.

If a soul departs this world dead in sins and trespasses without Christ, then that soul remains so in shame and torment forever.

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

 

[robert derrick]

WHO...WHO WERE THE PEOPLE REJECTING THE WORD OF GOD IN JESUS' DAY? WHO did He constantly warn - in Person, face to face, race to race, mouth to ear - in parables about what would be their fate?

Those who said He was only speaking parables, when He was warning plainly of the wrath to come.

Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables? (Ezek 20)

Which nowadays includes natural theologians that only give lip service to the soul and spiritual things of Scripture: they ere called Sadducees back then, who did not believe in the immortal soul.

Neither did they believe Jesus was the coming Christ and Lord God on earth.

 

[MatthewG]

Jesus fills the gulf, with in my opinion. Jesus did what others were not able to do considering he was born from above, and never sinned.

 

[Phoneman777]

Those who said He was only speaking parables, when He was warning plainly of the wrath to come.

Then said I, Ah Lord GOD! they say of me, Doth he not speak parables? (Ezek 20)

Please don't compare the inspired words of Matthew who said plainly Jesus would come speak in parables - with the skeptics in Ezekiel's day who refused the very same, OK?

Which nowadays includes natural theologians that only give lip service to the soul and spiritual things of Scripture: they ere called Sadducees back then, who did not believe in the immortal soul. Neither did they believe Jesus was the coming Christ and Lord God on earth.

They are right to not believe in the false doctrine of "immortal soul" because God "only hath immortality"! You don't have it, I don't have it, Hitler doesn't have it, understand? Only God is immortal.

PLease don't come with the ridiculous idea these words refer merely to our "physical body" because "God is a spirit" and doesn't reside in a body - therefore, as Paul is referring to His entire being, so also do "mortal/immortal" refer to our entire being aka the "I", the "ego", the "self" - the "soul" -- which is comprised of its two parts, the Body and the Breath of Life as Biblically defined in Genesis 2:7 KJV. The very definition which you flatly refuse to accept because it destroys your entire satanic philosophy which traces its roots all the way back to the serpent in the garden: "thou shalt not SURELY die".

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die".

"Let him know that he that converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death".

Death, which is not limited to "eternal separation" - an illegitimate inference based on twisted Scripture - but "cessation of life", the "absence of life", the "cessation of being", the "extinction of being".

 

[robert derrick]

Jesus fills the gulf, with in my opinion. Jesus did what others were not able to do considering he was born from above, and never sinned.

That's a nifty gospel you have there.

I've never tried coming up with my own gospel before. It could be interesting, so long as I don't lose sight of the truth while playing around with it.

 

[MatthewG]

That's a nifty gospel you have there.

I've never tried coming up with my own gospel before. It could be interesting, so long as I don't lose sight of the truth while playing around with it.

Thank you for your comment. From my understanding, no one goes to hell anymore due to Jesus Christ and his victory. With this in mind, I believe the end Goal for God himself is having all people resurrected, and people on the outside of the kingdom, and those on the inside, according to the Bible.

Unless Jesus is a failure, and God is not real.

 

[farouk]

Thank you for your comment. From my understanding, no one goes to hell anymore due to Jesus Christ and his victory. With this in mind, I believe the end Goal for God himself is having all people resurrected, and people on the outside of the kingdom, and those on the inside, according to the Bible.

Unless Jesus is a failure, and God is not real.

@MatthewG The Lord Jesus did speak in the NT more about hell than about heaven; it was a warning, indeed.

The Lord rewards faith; Hebrews 11 is such a set of examples of this; and Hebrews 12:2 is an exhortation to keep looking to Him in faith; to the One Who went to the Cross for His people.

 

[MatthewG]

@MatthewG The Lord Jesus did speak in the NT more about hell than about heaven; it was a warning, indeed.

The Lord rewards faith; Hebrews 11 is such a set of examples of this; and Hebrews 12:2 is an exhortation to keep looking to Him in faith; to the One Who went to the Cross for His people.

That is not true (The Lord Jesus did speak in the NT more about hell than about heaven; it was a warning, indeed.). I like you Farouk, but listen... to what I spoke about before you decided to comment.

 

[MatthewG]

Do people really just disregard Revelation 21 and 22?

Guess it doesn't hold much weight as the Gospel does for them. It's whatever believe what you want.

God is a tyrant if that is the case, sending people to hell - to burn alive FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER AND EVER....

What a joy. The counteracting to this "Tradition" - is the fact that Jesus Christ has had the victory.

There are people who do not believe he has and still losing souls to the Devil...


But believe what you want, I will do the same seeing that Jesus has had the victory over Sin, Hell, SAtan and his angels, ... FOREVER for all people, though there is the outside of the Kingdom where people reside after this life....

Don't people get it?

 

[farouk]

"Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.

17 And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not." (Malachi 3.16-18)

 

[farouk]

Malachi 4:

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.

2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts.

4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse."

 

[robert derrick]

Please don't compare the inspired words of Matthew who said plainly Jesus would come speak in parables - with the skeptics in Ezekiel's day who refused the very same, OK?

The Scripture in Matthew said Jesus would be speaking parables in that chapter, and so He did, and the disciples knew it.

You apply that to any and all Scripture you want, which turns the Bible into just another book of parables, legends, allegories, myths, and mysteries, etc...according to your desire to preach another gospel of a falsely created christ.

PLease don't come with the ridiculous idea these words refer merely to our "physical body" because "God is a spirit" and doesn't reside in a body -

Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Which includes your philosophy that has not the Spirit nor Jesus Christ dwelling within you, to quicken your mortal body thereby:

But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Your gospel is philosophic only, because as the sophists of old, you turn phrases dishonestly to your own rhetorical purposes.

But, I'll be posting your confirmation of rejecting the indwelling Spirit, and knowing not the Son of God.

Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue.

Which is why you have no divine power from Him nor partake of His divine nature, but only hold to the carnal earthly mind and wisdom of natural man:

This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish.

"soul" -- which is comprised of its two parts, the Body and the Breath of Life as Biblically defined in Genesis 2:7 KJV. the "extinction of being".

The soul is spiritual only made in the image of God. The mortal body is not the soul, nor is the soul the mortal body, because spirit and flesh cannot become one and the same:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

That is why the unenlightened natural man such as yourself and Nicodemus thinks being born again, can only be naturally from the mother's womb.

the "extinction of being".

I'll be posting this jewel of oblivion theology to another thread. Thanks.

Oblivion is only possible with a natural theology of a natural god, who can't see and know everything everywhere, and there is no anywhere that does not exist without His knowledge.

God the Creator is not uncreate anything.

I've already answered your other stuff, which you do not acknowledge. So, I'll not be repeating myself, but only responding to any new stuff you may have. That way the endless cycle will eventually end.

Unlike you and others of the created christ gospel, you just enjoy intellectual debate for it's own sake, like the gnostics and sophists of old.

 

[MatthewG]

"Then they that feared the Lord spake often one to another: and the Lord hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the Lord, and that thought upon his name.

17 And they shall be mine, saith the Lord of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

18 Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not." (Malachi 3.16-18)

Just quoting scripture from an old Jewish Manuscript doesn't mean much to me unless you can explain what the whole thing means from Chapter 1.

Anyway, Good luck with Sola Scriptura.

Read revelation 21 and 22... which are pictures and types I believe of what is in store for the afterlife...

 

[MatthewG]

The very first instance of the mention of book of life is found in Exodus, also @farouk. I believe it dealt with the Jews.

But with Revelation 21-22, you can see that their are still RESURRECTED PEOPLE who are outside the kingdom of Heavenly Jerusalem.

Isn't that a more refined finish? To have all people to be able to live in the 'heavenly realm' either outside or inside with God?

Doesn't that give a greater hope? Perhaps a person who is in the kingdom can go outside to seek for the lost one? To bring them into the fold? Where the city gates never closed?

Even after this life?

God is much more than me and you can understand, but he is good... nonetheless.



A lot of the problem is the perspective of traditions people have learned, or they haven't connected things well in the Bible, or they believe the Bible was written TO THEM, but it was written to an audience and generation that is dead and gone from this world, resurrected in the Heavenly Realm.

Would you answer this @farouk? What you think about it? I believe it to be true regardless if others do not because my hope is in a Good God, who knows what he is doing where we as human beings dont.