Oh Boy! Seeing So Much!

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stunnedbygrace

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Up until today, "positional righteousness" was a thing that was yet to happen only, not for now so no, I do not see it as a bad thing, just a new thing for myself. Yeah, seems I went right back to focusing on the latter ignoring the former belief all together, I'm insane o_O:Hanging:
"No GREATER righteousness exits" - and we are to strive for this righteousness all the time, yes?

"There is both righteousness by faith AND holiness. God accepts and makes a place for both."

Oh the duality!!!!!
Lol. Duality. The “ ‘im” of so many Hebrew words. (Even Elohim!)
Got that from epi’s wonderful book.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I fully understand that thing of seeing it at one moment and then not seeing it the next And then bang you see it again. I go through that too. Like looking at one of those pictures that suddenly becomes another picture depending on whether you are seeing in your default position - black ink on a white page, or seeing suddenly in a way that isn’t your default, seeing it as white ink on a black page.

But no, I wasn’t meaning what you said there. I’ll try to explain.

We have a problem with understanding the differences of:
1. being said by God of us that we did the right/righteous thing by trusting and believing we are forgiven, Jesus died so we could be, and that we now have eternal life by the down payment of the Spirit.
2. Beginning to be led by that Spirit and having our faith grown into beginning to hope in some promises and begin seeing them manifest in our life.
3. Beginning to walk in the Spirit in the holiness of God.


#1 is positional righteousness
#2 is maturing and going beyond positional righteousness and into actual and manifest righteousness in our inner man.
#3 is is holiness, walking IN the Spirit Rather than just being led by the Spirit.

#1. Faith
#2 Hope
#3 love, His love, manifested outward from within us to the world.
So getting those three things confused and entangled as just one thing isn’t good and confuses us. AND others. But the worst confusion comes if you confuse or try to meld together #1 or #2 with #3. If we do that, chaos ensues.

This goes back to what John always used to say to us, Nancy. Most of our confusion when reading scripture is not seeing some of it talks about righteousness and some of it talks about holiness, which is walking in the Spirit in Gods own righteousness and holiness.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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It's always believe first and then His promises will become a reality.
Unless you’re hijacked and hoodwinked away from growing in trust leading into hope.
And before any caterwauling begins, (not from you Nancy) yes, you are still positionally covered as He works to unhoodwink and unhijack you.
 
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Nancy

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Lol. Duality. The “ ‘im” of so many Hebrew words. (Even Elohim!)
Got that from epi’s wonderful book.
Yes, me too..."im"! (have not finished your book Epi, sorry...had to many and got overwhelmed. I do plan to get back to it!) How can we even come close to perceiving Him as all in all, blows my mind every which way.
 
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Nancy

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Unless you’re hijacked and hoodwinked away from growing in trust leading into hope.
And before any caterwauling begins, (not from you Nancy) yes, you are still positionally covered as He works to unhoodwink and unhijack you.
He does have His work cut out for Him for sure :oops:
"caterwauling" Mmyeah, pretty much what happens, lol.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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He does have His work cut out for Him for sure :oops:
"caterwauling" Mmyeah, pretty much what happens, lol.
Yeah. The caterwauling comes because…you can’t try to take away righteous by faith FROM the righteous by faith OR try to take away true manifest righteousness for those beginning to hope in and manifest it, OR the holiness that those walking in the Spirit manifest.
I mean, you can TRY, but you’ll get an earful.
 
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Pearl

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So getting those three things confused and entangled as just one thing isn’t good and confuses us. AND others. But the worst confusion comes if you confuse or try to meld together #1 or #2 with #3. If we do that, chaos ensues.

This goes back to what John always used to say to us, Nancy. Most of our confusion when reading scripture is not seeing some of it talks about righteousness and some of it talks about holiness, which is walking in the Spirit in Gods own righteousness and holiness.
I think it can be counterproductive to over-think spiritual things. We just need to accept with our hearts not try to work it out with our intellect.
 

stunnedbygrace

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I don’t believe there’s any way I could have seen that by my intellect. I would have seen it by my intellect much quicker than 16 years if that were so.
 
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Pearl

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I don’t believe there’s any way I could have seen that by my intellect. I would have seen it by my intellect much quicker than 16 years if that were so.
I just meant that with spiritual things logic doesn't work.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I just meant that with spiritual things logic doesn't work.
That’s largely true…but it still doesn’t harm us to hear parables before we come to understand them in spirit. Or to hear one try to describe a spiritual matter before we can grasp it.
 
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Nancy

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So getting those three things confused and entangled as just one thing isn’t good and confuses us. AND others. But the worst confusion comes if you confuse or try to meld together #1 or #2 with #3. If we do that, chaos ensues.

This goes back to what John always used to say to us, Nancy. Most of our confusion when reading scripture is not seeing some of it talks about righteousness and some of it talks about holiness, which is walking in the Spirit in Gods own righteousness and holiness.
Yeah, it can be like that...now you see it now you don't scenarios. Sometimes also, our default settings need to be adjusted, haha!
I do recognize there is a big difference between being led by and walking in His Spirit. To me, being led by can mean you hear His Spirit and will either choose to "walk" by His ways or not...? I mean, can we be led yet not walk in?

And I do remember our Zoom meetings with Epi and the others concerning all of this. I now can at least differentiate them. In order to actually literally "walk in His Spirit", one must leave the house sometimes, lol. In the mean time, it will have to be a positional maturing...preparedness I'll say!




 

stunnedbygrace

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I do recognize there is a big difference between being led by and walking in His Spirit. To me, being led by can mean you hear His Spirit and will either choose to "walk" by His ways or not...? I mean, can we be led yet not walk in?
Sometimes, yes, you can choose to not listen, like the man who tried to run away and not hear and do and was swallowed by a whale. But it’s not only and always a choice, but sometimes the flesh, as in - I don’t do what I want to do and I do what I don’t want to do. And God knows the weakness of the flesh and doesn’t expect us to hear clearer and do before He weans us from our flesh. He doesn’t ask us to do what it is impossible for us to do. He only asks that we believe what He says and promises.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Yeah, it can be like that...now you see it now you don't scenarios. Sometimes also, our default settings need to be adjusted, haha!
You know, the double pictures I was talking about and how we first see them in default, really do speak something spiritual to me. Because the default setting is to see the light in the background and the darkness up close. The other way is to see the darkness in the background and to focus on the light. Trippy!
 
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stunnedbygrace

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Holiness means set apart for God. It doesn't mean pious or goody-two-shoes. It is only God himself who makes us holy. In God's kingdom nobody is better than anyone else. If we are in Christ we are righteous in the sight of God. No matter what went before. I think you can only really 'rest' in God once you come to understand that and cease striving to be a better person. I have known too many Christians who beat themselves up and live in torment because they think they aren't good enough for God, even though he says they are.
Yes, things that are holy means they are set apart ONLY for Gods use. But when saying God is holy, we aren’t saying it means God is set apart for Gods use. Are we?

I definitely dont think holiness is goody two shoes, and there is only one Holy.

God doesn’t exactly make us holy. It’s more like some of us walk IN His very own holiness. Or you can deny that holy men who walk in the Spirit with God doing miracles through them don’t, can’t and never have walked on earth.

In Gods Kingdom there are both the righteous and (the rarer) holy. One is good and acceptable to God and one is better than good and acceptable. Unless you want to say Paul, who walked IN the Spirit is no better than us. You are trying to say there is no better than you. No one has gone past your righteous by faith and into Gods holiness.

For your next statement, I totally agree. But He lets us wear ourselves out in the trying until we will accept it has to progress through trust and not our Own power.

As to the last there, yes, and I WAS one of those people, stuck there. But I am not saying what would, or should, make the righteous sad. I’m saying DONT take away the good and acceptable to God but also DONT degrade holiness or the men who have walked in it.
 
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Jay Ross

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Hello,

God does not measure how holy we are, just our total dependency on Him in all things.

To many people focus on the renewing of their minds but do not put on the refurbished personhood that God intended us to be from the beginning of time. Ep 4:23. In considering this verse we need to understand that the translations wrongly translate the Greek word "Kainon" which has embedded within it "kainos" which has the meaning of "new, especially in freshness such that it looks like new again, while "neos" G:3501 has the meaning of newness with respect to age."

Just like clothing, we need to adjust the seams as we slowly change because of our walk with Christ so that the refurbished personhood conforms to our new shape that is developing in us. This new reshaping of our personhood can only occur when we allow ourselves to be drawn further into his Glorious presences.

We are warned that even a righteous man can still sin, but if that sinning "once righteous man" will not repent of their sin, then he will not enjoy everlasting Life when the final judgement occurs but will become a candidate for the second death at that time because he would not repent when challenged by God.

OSAS tickles our ears as our way out for not changing our nature when we say "Yea" to Christ's salvation process but move no further along the road to the promises on offer.

There are so many people who debate to justify their own beliefs and misunderstandings that they become so busy debating and posting that they have no time to put into practice the very things that they debate.

Marks joined CB shortly after I began posting, but his posting practice is a factor of five times more often than mine.

A poor person is defined as someone who has no time to contemplate their navel and to meditate on the things of God while simply siting at the tent flaps of their abode.

My prayer for all is that God will draw us all further into His loving embrace and His purposes and meaning for our life.

Shalom
 

stunnedbygrace

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OSAS tickles our ears as our way out for not changing our nature when we say "Yea" to Christ's salvation process but move no further along the road to the promises on offer.
This is way too much to simply boil it down this way. For all I know, God will judge very severely the ones who taught people they COULDNT go further than a positional righteousness and will go easier on those who were held back by them.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Lol. Duality. The “ ‘im” of so many Hebrew words. (Even Elohim!)
Got that from epi’s wonderful book.
I even remember hearing a man recently talk about a verse (don’t think it was in Johns book too, but don’t remember) about Gods face. The man said it should have been translated as God saying “My faces” rather than “My face.” Pretty bummed I forgot to write the verse down and look it up.
 

Jay Ross

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I even remember hearing a man recently talk about a verse (don’t think it was in Johns book too, but don’t remember) about Gods face. The man said it should have been translated as God saying “My faces” rather than “My face.” Pretty bummed I forgot to write the verse down and look it up.
Try Hosea 5 15 using the Biblehub web site and click on the interlinear word for H:6440 to see other related verses. And yes, it is probably plural.

Shalom
 
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