He doesn't lead us blindly

[Karl Peters]

He who eats of what the CC teaches eats not of faith .
the same applies for the jw and many others . We better know this well .

WE DON'T EAT FAITH BUT BY FAITH WE EAT THE WORDS THE LORD HAS FOR US!!! AND THAT BY FAITH!!

But do we???

If I believe in Jesus Christ, then I actually ask Him for understanding, or perhaps a person doesn't want understanding?? Or maybe they don't believe the Lord can or will give them understanding, and perhaps that is where their faith in Him is at?

People - our faith is not in our faith!!!

So who we need to know well, is Jesus Christ, and one of His name is Understanding - because as the Word of God He has the words of God which can give you understanding!! So we have understanding, but that in the form of the person of Jesus Christ!! Thus we hear by faith - that believe that Jesus Christ is there with us to ask and hear from!!

So one person writes: "This why we are not to defile our own conscience, by doing something that we do not believe from the heart freely." Well - we need to do what the King of kings and Lord or lords tells us even if it seem to be against our own conscience. We are following Him not our conscience!! However, if our conscience does not understand, the we should get understanding from the King of king!! How do we not know this??

And then a person writes "WE BETTER KNOW OUR BIBLES WELL ." as opposed to knowing the Lord Jesus Christ well, shows that he is not asking Jesus Christ for understanding either!!

So neither person believes in Jesus Christ!!!

Walking with the Lord one day He told me "Karl, there are two mistake a person can make. One is to not believe the Bible, and the other is to not believe the Bible is right!"

The above is a great example of what He was telling me. There is a person who doesn't believe the Bible so they just look to their own conscience for understanding. Then the other person does not believe the Bible is actually right in telling us to seek Jesus Christ by faith, so they will put aside their conscience for understanding but not their own mind for understanding! They don't seek the mind of Christ like the Bible explains but lean on their own understanding of the Bible instead of Lord's voice for understanding the Bible!!

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

You also read that He lead us by His voice, right?

Not our conscience but His voice!! They are not the same thing!!

We have OUR conscience, and we should also have OUR Lord Jesus Christ!!

Your conscience is not His voice!! It is your conscience and our faith is in Him, Jesus Christ!! And it is written that His thoughts are not our thoughts!!

You should talk to Him about this, I did.

He explained it to me something like this:

People have a conscience that we get from our society (the people we encounter) while we grow up. It helps us decide what is right and wrong in our society! For example: if you drive in some place people drive on the left side of the road, while in other place people drive on the right side. You conscience will tend to make you feel uncomfortable if you go to the other side of the road and your mind has to override your conscience in that situation. Now the Lord may tell you to stop going down that road when you don't understand why!! Even the ass the Balaam

Num 22:23 And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.

If we read about Balaam, he had a conscience. Balaam had explained to Balak that he would not do say something other than what the Lord wanted. That was Balaam's conscience speaking. Still Balaam was heading down that road because he didn't pay attention to the voice of the Lord!! Do even an ass that pays attention to the Angel (Spirit) of the Lord on the road is better at doing the right thing than the man following his own conscience instead of the voice of the Lord!!

 

[Karl Peters]

And HE led me and kept me far from ROME and the teachings of men gone wrong . JESUS wouldnt lead us into the CC
nor into the mormon realm nor the jw camp . SO while i agree with your common statement .
I pray you aint in any of those camps . Let us read our KJV bible and learn JESUS

I find it interesting that you claim to understand what Jesus would and wouldn't do!!!

I have been listening to Him for over 20 years now, and the one thing I know it that I don't know what He is going to do or not unless He personally tells me so!!!

Indeed, Paul went to Rome!! And it seems that Peter might have also! Were they just rebellious men not hearing the Lord and doing what He asked? In fact a history of Christianity shows that the church in Rome was used by God to spread Christianity through-out the world!!

Indeed we have a letter in the Bible that we written to the church in Rome!!

I am not saying they have it all correct!! All seven churches written to in Revelations has problems, and all were told "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

But it doesn't seem like you are listening to Him, but are saying what He will and will not say to you!!

 

[amigo de christo]

I find it interesting that you claim to understand what Jesus would and wouldn't do!!!

I have been listening to Him for over 20 years now, and the one thing I know it that I don't know what He is going to do or not unless He personally tells me so!!!

Indeed, Paul went to Rome!! And it seems that Peter might have also! Were they just rebellious men not hearing the Lord and doing what He asked? In fact a history of Christianity shows that the church in Rome was used by God to spread Christianity through-out the world!!

Indeed we have a letter in the Bible that we written to the church in Rome!!

I am not saying they have it all correct!! All seven churches written to in Revelations has problems, and all were told "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

But it doesn't seem like you are listening to Him, but are saying what He will and will not say to you!!

They had a true church in Rome once . But rest assured paul nor peter would ever sit in the RCC today .
They would have rebuked it and then been run off . As i said , FLEE THE CC and any other dangerous place
that wont repent and rather just keeps getting worse .

 

[amigo de christo]

WE DON'T EAT FAITH BUT BY FAITH WE EAT THE WORDS THE LORD HAS FOR US!!! AND THAT BY FAITH!!

But do we???

If I believe in Jesus Christ, then I actually ask Him for understanding, or perhaps a person doesn't want understanding?? Or maybe they don't believe the Lord can or will give them understanding, and perhaps that is where their faith in Him is at?

People - our faith is not in our faith!!!

So who we need to know well, is Jesus Christ, and one of His name is Understanding - because as the Word of God He has the words of God which can give you understanding!! So we have understanding, but that in the form of the person of Jesus Christ!! Thus we hear by faith - that believe that Jesus Christ is there with us to ask and hear from!!

So one person writes: "This why we are not to defile our own conscience, by doing something that we do not believe from the heart freely." Well - we need to do what the King of kings and Lord or lords tells us even if it seem to be against our own conscience. We are following Him not our conscience!! However, if our conscience does not understand, the we should get understanding from the King of king!! How do we not know this??

And then a person writes "WE BETTER KNOW OUR BIBLES WELL ." as opposed to knowing the Lord Jesus Christ well, shows that he is not asking Jesus Christ for understanding either!!

So neither person believes in Jesus Christ!!!

Walking with the Lord one day He told me "Karl, there are two mistake a person can make. One is to not believe the Bible, and the other is to not believe the Bible is right!"

The above is a great example of what He was telling me. There is a person who doesn't believe the Bible so they just look to their own conscience for understanding. Then the other person does not believe the Bible is actually right in telling us to seek Jesus Christ by faith, so they will put aside their conscience for understanding but not their own mind for understanding! They don't seek the mind of Christ like the Bible explains but lean on their own understanding of the Bible instead of Lord's voice for understanding the Bible!!



You also read that He lead us by His voice, right?

Not our conscience but His voice!! They are not the same thing!!

We have OUR conscience, and we should also have OUR Lord Jesus Christ!!

Your conscience is not His voice!! It is your conscience and our faith is in Him, Jesus Christ!! And it is written that His thoughts are not our thoughts!!

You should talk to Him about this, I did.

He explained it to me something like this:

People have a conscience that we get from our society (the people we encounter) while we grow up. It helps us decide what is right and wrong in our society! For example: if you drive in some place people drive on the left side of the road, while in other place people drive on the right side. You conscience will tend to make you feel uncomfortable if you go to the other side of the road and your mind has to override your conscience in that situation. Now the Lord may tell you to stop going down that road when you don't understand why!! Even the ass the Balaam

Num 22:23 And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.

If we read about Balaam, he had a conscience. Balaam had explained to Balak that he would not do say something other than what the Lord wanted. That was Balaam's conscience speaking. Still Balaam was heading down that road because he didn't pay attention to the voice of the Lord!! Do even an ass that pays attention to the Angel (Spirit) of the Lord on the road is better at doing the right thing than the man following his own conscience instead of the voice of the Lord!!

Yes our faith is not in our faith . I agree with that . I aint of the party of the NAR or prosperity gospel . They are
every bit as false and dangerous as the RCC or any other dangerous place .

 

[BARNEY BRIGHT]

This came up on another thread. The point made was that we need to just do what our Lord Jesus Christ tells us to do, and we don't need to get understanding but just do it!

This is soooo wrong, and it is not how a relationship with Him is, but I see it often misunderstood.

The was a series call Joan of Arcadia. I actually like the series, but it also has the this misunderstanding wrong too. In the series we find "God" showing up in other people giving Joan instructions, which if she follows give her understanding, but she is just supposed to follow the instructions and not ask questions.

God can use other people, and because we find His words in our heart and in our mouths, the Lord can use what other people say to get words from Him to us. We are not actually preaching to find the Word of God in other people's mouth, but rather in our heart and mouth. We do find out that He is also putting His words in the mouth of others also, but we don't preach that because we are preaching a personal relationship with Him!!

Part of the very important personal relationship that He wants to have with us includes going over things and reasoning with us personally, to help us understand!!

Is 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together,”
Says the LORD,
“Though your sins are as scarlet,
They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson,
They will be like wool.

The above is what He really wants, that you come and reason with Him. So ask Him question!! That is part of reasoning with Him!! So don't just try and do what He tells you, but talk to Him, reason with Him (find the reason for doing what He asks) and get understanding from Him!!

He gives you ears to hear and eyes to see, when you seek Him so that you can get more understanding!!! Yes, He will give you instructions, like in Joan of Arcadis, which when you do them give you more understanding, but really the understanding comes from His voice!! So get Him to talk to you more by reasoning with Him!!

If He asks you to do something, start asking Him for understanding. That is what He want - that personal relationship with you. So talk, reason, ask, consider, and get information from Him as you can!!

He once told me, "Karl, understanding is understanding that I am Understanding."

Understanding is one of His names! He is called Understanding because talking with Him give you understanding, and understanding that is getting real understanding.

He is not about leading us blindly! He is about giving us understanding!!

So don't go telling others to just do what He tells them, tell them to talk to Him and listen to what He says!! Yeah - if you do that you will do what He tells you, but you will also pick up understanding about Him, and even the understanding that He is Understanding!!

Prov 7:4 Say to wisdom, “You are my sister,”
And call understanding your intimate friend;

Jesus Christ is Understanding and you though He is your Lord He still wants to be your friend!!! So He will answer your questions, as a friend!!

Hebrews 1:1, 2 says, "Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things."

Today God is speaking through his only begotten Son, the things that God says through Jesus and his apostles and disciples about christian life and eternal life, how to love one another, have been written down. I believe what 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 says, I'm not saying we should just read scripture but we should study it, and put it into practice in our lives , truly loving one another. Their are those who go beyond what is written. (what God inspired men to write down) That's why this world is in the mess that it is, because just as Satan has gone beyond what the true God says is right or wrong, too many people today follow him even though they don't think they are, but instead think they're following God. Satan the Devil has indeed deceived the whole inhabited earth.

 

[robert derrick]

WE DON'T EAT FAITH BUT BY FAITH WE EAT THE WORDS THE LORD HAS FOR US!!! AND THAT BY FAITH!!

But do we???

If I believe in Jesus Christ, then I actually ask Him for understanding, or perhaps a person doesn't want understanding?? Or maybe they don't believe the Lord can or will give them understanding, and perhaps that is where their faith in Him is at?

People - our faith is not in our faith!!!

So who we need to know well, is Jesus Christ, and one of His name is Understanding - because as the Word of God He has the words of God which can give you understanding!! So we have understanding, but that in the form of the person of Jesus Christ!! Thus we hear by faith - that believe that Jesus Christ is there with us to ask and hear from!!

So one person writes: "This why we are not to defile our own conscience, by doing something that we do not believe from the heart freely." Well - we need to do what the King of kings and Lord or lords tells us even if it seem to be against our own conscience. We are following Him not our conscience!! However, if our conscience does not understand, the we should get understanding from the King of king!! How do we not know this??

And then a person writes "WE BETTER KNOW OUR BIBLES WELL ." as opposed to knowing the Lord Jesus Christ well, shows that he is not asking Jesus Christ for understanding either!!

So neither person believes in Jesus Christ!!!

Walking with the Lord one day He told me "Karl, there are two mistake a person can make. One is to not believe the Bible, and the other is to not believe the Bible is right!"

The above is a great example of what He was telling me. There is a person who doesn't believe the Bible so they just look to their own conscience for understanding. Then the other person does not believe the Bible is actually right in telling us to seek Jesus Christ by faith, so they will put aside their conscience for understanding but not their own mind for understanding! They don't seek the mind of Christ like the Bible explains but lean on their own understanding of the Bible instead of Lord's voice for understanding the Bible!!



You also read that He lead us by His voice, right?

Not our conscience but His voice!! They are not the same thing!!

We have OUR conscience, and we should also have OUR Lord Jesus Christ!!

Your conscience is not His voice!! It is your conscience and our faith is in Him, Jesus Christ!! And it is written that His thoughts are not our thoughts!!

You should talk to Him about this, I did.

He explained it to me something like this:

People have a conscience that we get from our society (the people we encounter) while we grow up. It helps us decide what is right and wrong in our society! For example: if you drive in some place people drive on the left side of the road, while in other place people drive on the right side. You conscience will tend to make you feel uncomfortable if you go to the other side of the road and your mind has to override your conscience in that situation. Now the Lord may tell you to stop going down that road when you don't understand why!! Even the ass the Balaam

Num 22:23 And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.

If we read about Balaam, he had a conscience. Balaam had explained to Balak that he would not do say something other than what the Lord wanted. That was Balaam's conscience speaking. Still Balaam was heading down that road because he didn't pay attention to the voice of the Lord!! Do even an ass that pays attention to the Angel (Spirit) of the Lord on the road is better at doing the right thing than the man following his own conscience instead of the voice of the Lord!!

The context of Romans 14, and 1 Cor 11 is all about a weak conscience, which is doubting in faith.

Therefore, Scripture says we cannot do one without the other:

“And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.”

Scripture concludes that if our conscience doubts, then it is not of faith: without a clear conscience, we are commanded not to do anything.

Learning to be led by the voice of the Lord personally is good, including whether we understand why or not. But whether it be good or evil includes the conscience, which Scripture says not to ignore.

because He is Lord we need do what He askes even when we don't understand of even think it is the right think to do!

Telling our brother of a weak conscience to do something, whether he believes it is right or not, is exactly what Scripture commands us not to do, lest we destroy our brother or sister.

Romans 14 and I Cor 11 is telling us not to teach Christians how to sear their conscience.

That includes the exhortation to be led by hearing the voice of the Lord, much less the voices of men and angels.

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

There is no charity of heart with a defiled conscience, no matter how spiritual we desire to be.

That was the main error of the church at Corinth.

 

[robert derrick]

If I believe in Jesus Christ, then I actually ask Him for understanding, or perhaps a person doesn't want understanding??

You are speaking of rebellion by willful ignorance, not of faith with a good conscience.

People have a conscience that we get from our society (the people we encounter) while we grow up. It helps us decide what is right and wrong in our society!

You are speaking of the old man, and not the new man with good conscience toward God.

Our heart, mind, and conscience are changed when born again, to now be partaking of the divine nature.

The sons of God do not go by the rule and and conscience of the world.

For example: if you drive in some place people drive on the left side of the road, while in other place people drive on the right side. You conscience will tend to make you feel uncomfortable if you go to the other side of the road and your mind has to override your conscience in that situation.

You are redefining conscience, which is moral in nature. You are only talking about a new situation, we are not used to. It has nothing to do with conscience, and everything to do with experience.

Conscience would forbid driving down the right side on a left side road, because that is what you are used to.

 

[robert derrick]

Now the Lord may tell you to stop going down that road when you don't understand why!! Even the ass the Balaam

Once again, understanding why or why not, is a matter of knowledge, not of conscience. Many times Jesus tells us yes or no, to do this, or not to do that. We don't have to understand why, but we do need a clear conscience to do so by faith.

By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son,

Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called:

Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.

When Abraham offered up Isaac, he understood what the Lord commanded him to do, but not necessarily why. But his faith and conscience in doing so was firm, because he believed God, that He would raise up Isaac from the dead, if necessary.

Abraham did not understand why the Lord was commanding him to offer up Isaac, but he was acting by faith with a clear conscience.

Conclusion:
Conscience in good and evil and knowledge of why, is not the same thing: having a problem with something by conscience, is not the same thing as understanding why or why not.

We do not have to understand everything, since we do not yet know all things, but the conscience is with faith to do all things as unto the Lord.

“And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;”

And so, we see how conscience is the first thing added to faith, and comes in priority before knowledge of why.

Virtue is faith with a clean conscience.

 

[robert derrick]

Num 22:23 And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.

If we read about Balaam, he had a conscience. Balaam had explained to Balak that he would not do say something other than what the Lord wanted. That was Balaam's conscience speaking. Still Balaam was heading down that road because he didn't pay attention to the voice of the Lord!! Do even an ass that pays attention to the Angel (Spirit) of the Lord on the road is better at doing the right thing than the man following his own conscience instead of the voice of the Lord!!

At this point Balaam was searing his conscience, which is why the Lord was standing in his path, to slay him.

He was rebelling against the voice of the Lord at this point, and was seeking to do what the Lord forbid him to do. The Lord was having mercy upon him, by giving an ass enough sense not to ride into His sword.

Your teaching is good in exhorting Christians to learn to hear and follow the Lord by voice, and not be reasoning only, but you are erring by trying to remove conscience from faith in that voice.

If the voice speaking to us is against our own conscience of good and evil, that is not the Lord, who knows our conscience, whether it be weak or strong.

Since Scripture forbids us defiling our conscience at the words of stronger brethren, whom we can see, then how much more so with voices of them we cannot see?

“Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God."

Conscience is the virtue of trying the spirits' voices, before obeying them. That is when we add knowledge to faith and virtue, which is a good conscience in all things.

Once knowledge of the word of God is added, then conscience can be tempered and grow with surety of faith.

 

[Karl Peters]

Hebrews 1:1, 2 says, "Long ago God spoke to our forefathers by means of the prophets on many occasions and in many ways. Now at the end of these days he has spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the systems of things."

Today God is speaking through his only begotten Son, the things that God says through Jesus and his apostles and disciples about christian life and eternal life, how to love one another, have been written down. I believe what 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 says, I'm not saying we should just read scripture but we should study it, and put it into practice in our lives , truly loving one another. Their are those who go beyond what is written. (what God inspired men to write down) That's why this world is in the mess that it is, because just as Satan has gone beyond what the true God says is right or wrong, too many people today follow him even though they don't think they are, but instead think they're following God. Satan the Devil has indeed deceived the whole inhabited earth.

Do you even realize that you argued for two different things??????

First you correctly state that God today speaks to us through His Son, Jesus Christ. That is absolute correct!! So very right your were, but "were" being the important word. You did get the right message but got lost!

Because then you tend state "Their are those who go beyond what is written." Of course there are. Did you not read that if all had been written down then perhaps the whole world could not contain it, and that just about what Jesus did in the flesh!! The problem is that you don't actually do what the Bible tells you to do - which is seek the Lord Jesus Christ and listen to Him. By what you write it is clear that you are depending on you the Scriptures (the Scared writings) to save you!! Jesus delt with people like that!

Jesus told the Jews - Jn 5:38-40 “You do not have His word abiding in you, for you do not believe Him whom He sent. “[fn]You search the Scriptures because you think that in them you have eternal life; it is these that testify about Me; and you are unwilling to come to Me so that you may have life.

Look close at what Jesus said!! They did not have the word abiding in them!!!! The Bible does not abide in you!! The Holy Spirit should be abiding in you!! If so then you hear the word in you - in your heart and sometimes coming out your mouth!! And that is the Word of God we are preachng - not the ordering lines on lines written down that we study a little here and there. In fact God through Isaiah explained that if you did not listen to Him then the word to you would be "Order on order, order on order, Line on line, line on line, A little here, a little there,”

Did you not read the Bible? Do you not even believe that what was written down was correct?? Because if you did, then you would seek the voice of the Lord which is found in our hearts and coming out our mouths, because the word of God comes from the Holy Spirit indwelling us!!

Is 28: 12,13 He who said to them, “Here is rest, give rest to the weary,”
And, “Here is repose,” but they would not listen.
So the word of the LORD to them will be,
“Order on order, order on order,
Line on line, line on line,
A little here, a little there,”
That they may go and stumble backward, be broken, snared and taken captive.

Rom 10:8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

Mat 17: 5 “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!”

Is 1:2 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth;
For the LORD speaks,
“Sons I have reared and brought up,
But they have revolted against Me.

Yeah - the Lord spoke to them through the prophets of Old, yet see that the prophets of Old were telling them even then to listen tothe Lord and get to know Him!!!

They did do it, even years later after having the Sacred writings of those like Moses and Isaiah, they still had not decided to seek the voice of the Lord - but instead they depended on their own understanding of the Scriptures and put their faith in them instead of Jesus Christ. Don't be like that!! Seek Jesus Chirst and what He personally has to say to you!! He does indeed stand at the door and knocks and if anyone hears His voice (which is not the Scriptures, those are writings He has people who did hear from Him wrote) and opens the door of Him to come into them, He will come into them and eat with them and them with Him!! I personally testify to the truth of that!!

I do hear often, and it amazes me that people will not actually seek Him and what He has to say to them personally!!

So you might understanding that it is about hearing Him I will give you some things He personally has said to me - they fit perfectly with what the prophets of Old were saying - in that we need to get to know Him and we do that by listening to Him, because the Lord speaks!!!! I hope you like these bits of wisdom that He gave me. Know that He has wisdom for you too if you really listen to Him!

THESE BITS OF WISDOM ARE LIKE DROPS OF WATER. I WILL SURELY GIVE YOU A POND FULL.

WE HEAR WISDOM, BUT IS IT THE HEARING OR THE ACTING UPON IT THAT MAKES A MAN WISE?

YOU DIDN’T MAKE ME AN AWESOME GOD, BUT YOU CAN MAKE ME AN AWESOME GOD.

AS INSTRUCTIONS ARE GIVEN TO A SERVANT, AND WISDOM AND PARABLES TO A SON, AND AS JOKES ARE GIVEN TO A FRIEND, SO I LOVE YOU IS SAID TO A BRIDE.

WHAT TEACHER DOESN’T PUT A BOOK IN FRONT OF HIS STUDENTS TODAY; YET NOT JUST A BOOK BUT OVERHEAD TRANSPARENCIES, VISUALS, AND OTHER MATERIAL? FOR I TELL YOU TRULY, IF THEY ARE NOT LISTENING TO ME THEY ARE NOT MY PUPIL, THEY ARE NOT MY STUDENT; I TELL YOU TRULY, THEY ARE NOT MY DISCIPLE UNLESS THEY ARE HEARING FROM ME. SO DON’T TELL THEM TO READ THE BOOK, THEM TO TAKE THE CLASS!”

WHEN WE TALK TO GOD, GOD TALKS TO US……. WHEN WE LISTEN TO GOD, GOD LISTENS TO US!

THE BEST LISTENERS MAKE THE BEST TEACHERS.

SHOULDN’T YOU HEAR FROM A MAN YOU’RE JUDGING WORTHY OF DEATH AND EXAMINE WHETHER THERE IS TRUTH IN WHAT HE SAYS. SO IT IS THAT I HAVE MADE HEARING FROM ME THE VERY THINGS THAT GIVES YOU ETERNAL LIFE. (Note that faith comes from hearing a word from Him - Rom 10)

IT'S NOT EASY LISTENING TO A ROCK. YOU HAVE TO LISTEN VERY CLOSE!

TWO MEN WERE WALKING DOWN THE ROAD, ONE TRIPED OVER SOMETHING HE DIDN’T SEE, THE OTHER DIDN’T BECAUSE HE WAS PAYING ATTENTION. (Jesus can be a stumbling stone to some, so pay attention)

WE DON’T HAVE UNDERSTANDING BECAUSE WE DON’T READ THE BIBLE WITH UNDERSTANDING, BUT OUR UNDERSTANDING…. UNDERSTAND??? (Understanding is a name for the Lord - in Proverbs we are told to make Understanding our friend)

THE SCRIPTURES ARE RIGHT, BUT THEY ARE NOT RIGHTEOUS. THEY HAVE NO ABILITY TO ACT. THEY ARE NOT ALIVE, BUT THE WORD OF GOD IS ALIVE AND ACTIVE. (People - Jesus rose from the dead, and His name is called The Word of God, Rev 19-13)

WE DON’T USE THE LORD TO PREACH THE SCRIPTURES; WE USE THE SCRIPTURES TO PREACH THE LORD!!
(And this is your problem - you are using the Scriptures to preach the Scriptures instead of using them to preach our Lord Jesus Christ)

 

[Dropship]

This came up on another thread. The point made was that we need to just do what our Lord Jesus Christ tells us to do, and we don't need to get understanding but just do it!
This is soooo wrong,..

On the other hand it may be soooo right..
In the sermon on the mount Jesus tells us to be like the birds of the air simply going about their business without fretting or wondering about anything,
Christian Bear Grylls gave the same advice to a fellow recruit in a Foreign Legion documentary who was doing a bit of complaining about the hard tasks being set for them, and Grylls told him, "Just do it"..

 

[Karl Peters]

You are speaking of rebellion by willful ignorance, not of faith with a good conscience.




You are speaking of the old man, and not the new man with good conscience toward God.

Our heart, mind, and conscience are changed when born again, to now be partaking of the divine nature.

The sons of God do not go by the rule and and conscience of the world.




You are redefining conscience, which is moral in nature. You are only talking about a new situation, we are not used to. It has nothing to do with conscience, and everything to do with experience.

Conscience would forbid driving down the right side on a left side road, because that is what you are used to.

Are trying to be funny???

Lord rebellion is a result of not seeking the King of kings and listening to Him!!! But you think my telling you to listen to the King is rebellion? You are trying to make a joke, right?

The old man doesn't know God, but person born again hears the Holy Spirit, so the new man born of the Spirit is not depending on his conscience and thus his understanding of what it right or wrong, but instead the Born Again Christian listens to the Lord Jesus Christ, and they know that His thoughts are not our thoughts!! As high as the heaven are above the earth so are His thoughts above our thoughts!! If you listened to Him, you would know that 'His thoughts are not our thoughts!!! It is the first thing you find out about Him!!! He is just a whole lot smarter that we are!!! And anyone who listened Him found that out really quick!!!!!! You just can't get to know Him and not instantly realize that He is God and you are not!!!

Indeed -- you find out quickly, when listening to Him, that only God is good!!!! And you are writing "man with good conscience" - and you don't understand that statement alone proves you don't listen to Him!! He reproves those He loves, and we all need it!! So it is the unbeliever that does not know this, the believer clearly understands that we are all works in progress!! We know that our best wisdom, knowledge, and understanding, does not come close to His wisdom, knowledge, and understanding - which explains why we do actually seek Him for what He has to say.

So here is how our conscience is helpful, but only to get us to seek Him!! That is to say; If we get our conscience telling us that something doesn't seem right, we then turn to Jesus Christ and ask Him about it. He can give us discernment of spirits,, and understanding about what is going on!! That is why Paul wrote that He took all thoughts captive to Jesus Christ - it was because his conscience was not good, and Paul thus realized that all His thoughts needed to be presented to Jesus Christ for comment!!

And concerning "
The sons of God do not go by the rule and and conscience of the world." - Nobody, believers or not, go by the conscience of the world, but we all have our conscience, where as the world does not have a conscience. The problem is that people, with each their own conscience, make up the world! Being born again does not mean we get a new conscience; it means we get the Holy Spirit!! You seem to me confused about that! Now spending time with the Lord will tend to adjust your conscience, because your conscience is what it is because of the things we learn! That doesn't change it, but perhaps we get smarter.

Concerning your statement: "You are redefining conscience, which is moral in nature." - No I am not!!!! That is exactly what I am referring to!! Our conscience is "our moral nature", which is not good!!! It is still "Our moral nature" and we can see over history how man's moral nature has turned out!! It is not good!! We say to ourselves that perhaps I can't do this, but I can get what I want by doing this!! That is a typical or a politician or lawyer, or those Pharisees!! And Jesus explained that your righteousness had to exceed that to get to heaven!! So the only way to exceed that is to get the Lord thinking by hearing from Him and not going by your best "moral nature"!!! Perhaps you missed that I was saying that we need to listen to the Lord and stop leaning our our understanding, even our best moral nature - because only God is good!!

The thing you fail to understand is that our "moral nature" is affected by our bring up!!

In fact this is a major problem today!! We are bringing up kids, not according to what the Lord says, but according to our moral nature!! So abortion becomes legal to protect the right the woman has over they should have. The child in the womb becomes just a clump of cells that can be removed.

Now Christianity in general is against abortion, but that is because many in the church do in fact hear the voice of the Lord and teach like wise. So other Christians 'moral nature' is adjusted if they are brought up in the church. So the voice of the Lord does have an influence, but those not listening to Him often do not understand what is happening, because the don't know the Light - Jesus Christ.

So it is that while driving down the road we don't drive on the wrong side, partly because of the law, but partly because we have been taught that hurting others is not right and we could hurt someone. Our nature is to think about things and learn, and that includes moral things! The Lord is still the Teacher, even if we don't listen to Him. He still has created the circumstances we live in, even if don't listen to Him. We still have a moral part of our nature, because He made it so. But it is a part of us that learns what our social environment wbout what is right or wrong!

Maybe you don't understand that - but again; understanding comes from His voice not our best thinking! (See Prov 2:6)

 

[Karl Peters]

On the other hand it may be soooo right..
In the sermon on the mount Jesus tells us to be like the birds of the air simply going about their business without fretting or wondering about anything,
Christian Bear Grylls gave the same advice to a fellow recruit in a Foreign Legion documentary who was doing a bit of complaining about the hard tasks being set for them, and Grylls told him, "Just do it"..

No it is wrong!! We do need to get understanding!! The Lord is Understanding, and we need to get Him!!

Prov 7:4 Say to wisdom, “You are my sister,”
And call understanding your intimate friend;

We need to get Jesus Christ as our friend!! Abraham was the friend of God, and Moses was the friend of God, and we too as offspring (spiritually speaking) need to become friends of God (Jesus Christ the Word of God who is God -Jn 1)

That doesn't mean we are going to comprehend like God, but it does mean we need to listen to the Lord even as a son and friend of God! And He gives sons and friends understanding, where as for a slave His might just give an order without explanation.

He once told me:

AS INSTRUCTIONS ARE GIVEN TO A SERVANT, AND WISDOM AND PARABLES TO A SON, AND AS JOKES ARE GIVEN TO A FRIEND, SO I LOVE YOU IS SAID TO A BRIDE.

So it is that He talks to sons with wisdom and parables, and even jokes with friends, - so who thinks that we are only supposed to get and do it - that would be the slave only!! Yet we are supposed to move beyond that type of relationship with Him, even to where we hear Him tell us, "I Love You"!

I tell you that we are all supposed to be in those relationships with Him. Yes we get instructions, but as sons we get wisdom and parables, and as friends we even get to joke with Him (Isaac, the promised son means laughter), and we even need to hear Him say "I love you". It is a personally relationship with Jesus Christ we are preaching!!! WE NEED TO GET HIM!!!

 

[Dropship]

..We do need to get understanding!! The Lord is Understanding, and we need to get Him!!

As Christians we've already got God and Jesus in our heads-
Jesus said- "On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you" (John 14:20)
so what further "understanding" do we need?.
Paul told people to adopt a simple uncluttered mindset and not get bogged down in heavyweight theology-
"I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)

 

[Karl Peters]

As Christians we've already got God and Jesus in our heads-
Jesus said- "On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you" (John 14:20)
so what further "understanding" do we need?.
Paul told people to adopt a simple uncluttered mindset and not get bogged down in heavyweight theology-
"I'm worried lest you be led astray from the simplicity of Christ" (2 Cor 11:3)

Yeah - its not me being lead astray by the simplicity of Christ. We do have Him, in that He sends His Spirit to us. You can say that He is in our head, but the Bible says we find the word in our hearts and mouth! And that is the Word of God we are preaching - so not in our heads but heart!

Rom 10:8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

Of course the Holy Spirit is no more in your physical heart, but our spirit picks up the Lords words vis His Holy Spirit! So they wrote heart, because He seems to affect us in our heart, or where else do we think the Spirit talks to our spirit? The brain? Ok - no problem - but God is love so most people associate that with our heart, like we see at Valentine's day. We don't give our candy brains, do we?

The point being made in this thread is the we can and should seek Him for understanding, not just some blind instructions!! Perhaps a person thinks by their brain that the Lord just gives us instructions that as slaves we need to carry out without getting instructions!!

That is wrong!! Because God is love He wants to help us understand, and that means He wants our questions!!

Have you not read that we have not because we have not asked???

He loves you so He is not just into telling you to do something as a King that blindly needs to be obeyed!! He wants to treat you like a son, or friend, and even a bride so He welcomes your question!! Indeed, He love talking back and forth with us!! That is the simplicity of Christ!!! That He is there with love for us, so He want to talk with us not just command us!!

It is about a personal relationship!! He opens eyes to see and ears to hear, so He can help us not so that we are to follow Him blindly!! You are presenting Him all wrong - even as stick dictator instead of a loving King who also happens to be called things like 'Wonderful Counselor', 'Understanding', 'Everlasting Father', and 'Teacher'. All those names show He is about more than just absolute obedience, but He also wants to give us understanding by reasoning with us!!

I don't see how a person can say to know Him and not know this - or even read the Bible and not come to this conclusion.

Isaiah 1:18 “Come now, and let us reason together,” Says the LORD,
“Though your sins are as scarlet, They will be as white as snow;
Though they are red like crimson, They will be like wool.

So how does just hearing an instruction and just doing it go with the above verse?? There is a reason to reason with Him. It enables to learn from Him. He likes it if we learn from Him. It makes us better people! That is why He doesn't leave us blind.

 

[ShineTheLight]

WE DON’T USE THE LORD TO PREACH THE SCRIPTURES; WE USE THE SCRIPTURES TO PREACH THE LORD!!
(And this is your problem - you are using the Scriptures to preach the Scriptures instead of using them to preach our Lord Jesus Christ)

And this your problem; you're on about that and act like those you approach about it don't preach/aren't preaching Christ, the lord. Barney brought up a good points.

 

[Karl Peters]

And this your problem; you're on about that and act like those you approach about it don't preach/aren't preaching Christ, the lord. Barney brought up a good points.

I'm having a bit of trouble understanding what you are trying to say, and I certainly don't see the points you are talking about mentioned.

Do you realize that the "you're on about" is Jesus Christ and listening to Him? That is what I am "on about"! He is worth listening to and He does not just lead us blindly!! That is the point I am making. I'm not sure who "Barney" is, but I'm guessing you mean "Dropship"???

He seems to be making the point that we need to just do what the Lord says and should not ask Him questions. That is wrong - because as I stated, we are developing a personal relationship with Him by listening to Him, and not just that of a slave who is not aloud to ask questions, but like a son who a father wants to ask Him questions, or like that of a friend which we can honest conversations with back and forth, or even like that of a bride which He enjoys having with HIm and talking about personal things.

So does stating that make you think " act like those you approach about it don't preach/aren't preaching Christ, the lord"?? He is the Lord, but He is also love so He is not a Lord who we can't ask questions of , or have honest conversations back and forth with, or who doesn't enjoy spending time with us!!

That is how my Lord Jesus Christ is with me. He encourages me to ask Him questions and reason with Him!! I love that about Him because as you should be able to tell, I like reasoning with others. He also loves giving me bit of wisdom and teachings and entertaining the questions I ask of Him. He also encourages me to just spend time talking honestly about things in my life, and gives me wonderful counsel about them. And perhaps the best of all is that He tells me He loves me!! Sometimes many times a day. It means alot to me to hear Him say, "Karl, I love you."

So what do you think I am acting like when I proclaim Him??

 

[Dropship]

..Because God is love He wants to help us understand, and that means He wants our questions!!..

What questions?
Hasn't God already answered everything by speaking to us through Jesus?
Jesus said- "I only say what my Father tells me to say" (John 12:49)
And Jesus was easy enough to understand..
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)

 

[Karl Peters]

What questions?
Hasn't God already answered everything by speaking to us through Jesus?
Jesus said- "I only say what my Father tells me to say" (John 12:49)
And Jesus was easy enough to understand..
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)

You don't ever have any questions for God???

And no - God has not already answered everything, which is why He gave us His only begotten Son, Jesus Christ!! And why the Father said:

Mat 17: 5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice out of the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well-pleased; listen to Him!”

The Father did not say, Did you listen to Him?? But gave the command to listen to Him!!

It is why Jesus explained that His sheep hear His voice, as opposed to those who heard His voice.

And this is why Paul wrote"

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness [fn]based on faith speaks as follows: “DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, ‘WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN?’ (that is, to bring Christ down),

and - Rom 10:7 or ‘WHO WILL DESCEND INTO THE ABYSS?’ (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).”

And so why Paul explained Rm 10: 8 But what does it say? “THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, IN YOUR MOUTH AND IN YOUR HEART”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching,

And why Isaiah wrote for God:

Is 1:2,3 Listen, O heavens, and hear, O earth; For the LORD speaks,
“Sons I have reared and brought up, But they have revolted against Me.
“An ox knows its owner, And a donkey its master’s manger,
But Israel does not know, My people do not understand.”

I remember Benny Hinn once saying "It is not thus said the Lord, but thus saith the Lord. He is still saying today!"

Yet - that is why His sheep hear His voice. We hear from Him personally - each sheep that He has hears from Him. We talk to Him. He does not leave us blind to His presences, and He gives us ears to hear Him with. So we ask Him questions, because who would believe in Him and not take the time to ask Him questions??

Gen 1:15 After these things the word of the LORD came to Abram in a vision, saying, “Do not fear, Abram,
I am a shield to you; Your reward shall be very great.”
Gen 1:16 Abram said, “O Lord GOD, what will You give me, since I am childless, and the heir of my house is Eliezer of Damascus?”

So how do you even say you read the Bible and not understand what questions?? When His sheep hear from the Word of God we of course, as any person would, ask Him questions to get some understanding, just like Abraham did!!

Jn 8:39 They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus *said to them, “If you are Abraham's children, do the deeds of Abraham.

So what did Abraham do? He talked to the Lord and asked questions of Him to get understanding!!! But you ask, "What questions?"

Why don't you actually seek the Lord Jesus Christ and ask Him what questions you should ask Him, and then listen!! I do that sometimes! It turns out knowing what question to ask Him can be important, so from reasoning with Him for 20 years now, I now sometimes even get smart enough to ask Him what questions I should ask? He loves that question of Him!!! So, take my advice and ask Him that one, and don't forget to listen!! Because the Lord speaks!!

 

[Dropship]

..Why don't you actually seek the Lord Jesus Christ and ask Him what questions you should ask Him, and then listen!!..

People asked Jesus questions which are answered in the gospels, so why should we pester him further?..
Anyway at 74 years old I'm no longer on a "path" of seeking knowledge-
"..as a Christian, thank God you bear that name....that you may stand firm in all the will of God, mature and fully assured" (1 Peter 4:16, Col 4:12)
Check out this sensational vid of me under my strategy-gaming name 'PoorOldSpike', play it fullscreen for maximum dramatic effect and note my superbly confident body language-