2 Peter 3:10 The Big Whoosh

[Timtofly]

In your view, why was he telling his readers to be careful about living holy and godly lives as they looked forward to the arrival of the day of the Lord if the destruction he described couldn't possibly occur during their lifetimes?

Are you expecting it to occur in your lifetime?

If not is it ok for every one in the past not to live holy and godly, for the mere fact it is 1900 years later? The point is no one knows when it will happen, but after it happens one is still supposed to live holy and godly lives. Lively godly and holy has not changed since Genesis 1.

 

[rwb]

Ezekiel 36:16-21
Then the word of the Lord came to me saying, “Son of man, when the house of Israel was living in their own land, they defiled it by their ways and their deeds; their way before Me was like the uncleanness of a woman in her impurity. Therefore I poured out My wrath on them for the blood which they had shed on the land, because they had defiled it with their idols. Also I scattered them among the nations and they were dispersed throughout the lands. According to their ways and their deeds I judged them. When they came to the nations where they went, they profaned My holy name, because it was said of them, ‘These are the people of the Lord; yet they have come out of His land.’ But I had concern for My holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations where they went.

In order for God to answer this challenge, he must bring his people back out of exile, place them in the land again, bring other "gods" against them, and defeat these other gods in the presence of the nations. In addition, they must be a people for him, keeping his commandments, fearing his name, and remaining loyal to him the entire time. At the same time, he must be a God for them, protecting them from enemies, blessing them materially, and pouring out his spirit on them all.

This prophesy began to be fulfilled at Pentecost according to Ezekiel. Because it is in Christ that man is sprinkled with clean water, and a new heart and a new spirit He puts in us at Pentecost. Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord have been cleansed from all filthiness, and idols by the blood of Christ shed on His sacrificial cross.

Ezekiel 36:23-28 (KJV) And I will sanctify my great name, which was profaned among the heathen, which ye have profaned in the midst of them; and the heathen shall know that I am the LORD, saith the Lord GOD, when I shall be sanctified in you before their eyes. For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land. Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

 

[rwb]

Don’t confuse a BELIEVER with a CONVERTED BELIEVER, they are NOT the same thing.

Only God can judge a man's heart. Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else has the ability to know whether or not one professing faith is of faith for salvation or is in truth in unbelief. For there are many deceivers among the people of faith.

 

[Timtofly]

1,000+ years that comes suddenly and unexpectedly like a thief in the night. And you think this makes sense? Ugh.

Obviously Amil will not be expecting it at all. They will be the most shocked people on the planet.

 

[Timtofly]

You're not reading very carefully! Christ shall execute judgment and justice IN the earth, not ON the earth. Christ does not reign ON this earth, He is currently reigning and executing judgment and justice over His people from the Kingdom of heaven where He currently is and has been since His ascension there.

You are not correct either. Over is not in the earth either. If you need to be literal, His kingdom is in the earth, not on or over.

So He is not in heaven either. He is in the earth.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Not completely fulfilled because both Joel and Luke speak of this Day of the Lord as when man shall call upon the name of the Lord and whosoever believes will be saved. Pentecost simply marks the beginning of this Day of the Lord, the age of the Gospel going unto all the world, the prophets foretell would come when the promised Messiah came.

I agree. However, using a term like "the Day of the Lord" has implications that may affect how we perceive things like the "Kingdom of God," the "Great Tribulation," and the "Millennial Age."

 

[Taken]

This Is A Prime Example Why Your Claims Aren't Taken Seriously

The (Two Witnesses) bring God's judgment upon (The Beast) and wicked world through ",Plagues", a far cry from your claims of witnessing to Israel "Big Smiles"!

Revelation 11:6 & 10KJV
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

Not my Claims. Scriptural claims. I believe them. Doesn’t affect me what you believe.

 

[Randy Kluth]

A Believer IS one thing.
A Converted Believer IS an entirely Different thing.

A Converted Believer IS NOT subject to Gods Wrath.

It depends on what you mean by "God's Wrath?" If you're talking about Eternal Judgment, I agree. Someone who has been regenerated has Eternal Life, and will never experience Eternal Judgment.

But the same words can be used to apply to "God's Punishment." And the author of Hebrews does say that God *disciplines" all of His children. That is, we all get punished in our lives, just to make us more holy and obedient.

Of course, the ultimate example of this is the history of Israel as told in the Bible. God disciplined them to remove from them their faithlessness, their idolatry, and their apostasy. Some experienced eternal wrath, but others only experienced a temporary discipline, to get them back on the right track.

 

[Taken]

Only God can judge a man's heart. Neither you, nor I, nor anyone else has the ability to know whether or not one professing faith is of faith for salvation or is in truth in unbelief. For there are many deceivers among the people of faith.

Off point. I never say anything to the point you are making.

 

[Taken]

It depends on what you mean by "God's Wrath?" If you're talking about Eternal Judgment, I agree. Someone who has been regenerated has Eternal Life, and will never experience Eternal Judgment.

But the same words can be used to apply to "God's Punishment." And the author of Hebrews does say that God *disciplines" all of His children. That is, we all get punished in our lives, just to make us more holy and obedient.

Of course, the ultimate example of this is the history of Israel as told in the Bible. God disciplined them to remove from them their faithlessness, their idolatry, and their apostasy. Some experience eternal wrath, but others only experienced a temporary discipline, to get them back on the right track.

Gods Wrath is the result of His ANGER against men who have Rejected Him and Christ Jesus. His Tribulations ARE the consequences upon men WHO have no Confessed Allegiance to Him.

THAT ^ does not apply to a Converted man.

 

[Timtofly]

I find it hard to believe that one who professes to be in Christ would not know the Church in this world must endure "great tribulation" until the end of this age??? Every tribulation and trial is great for the believer who called to keep the faith even unto death!

Romans 5:3-6 (KJV) And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; And patience, experience; and experience, hope: And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

Ephesians 3:13 (KJV) Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.

The point is not the church enduring until the end.

The point is each individual remain faithful in tribulation, until the end of their physical life. Paul was not expected to endure for 2,000 years.

 

[Timtofly]

This is the time/age/era of the Church, the Gospel age while Christ is building His Kingdom as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth in the power of the Holy Spirit. There has never been any entity on this earth that has suffered greater tribulation and continued not only to endure through all, but even continues to grow. There is not a single passage in Scripture that limits the "great tribulation" the Church is called to endure to a mere 3.5 years as you imagine. The man of sin, called antichrists has been on this earth from the beginning, and will be revealed when the Kingdom is complete, and the Church is caught up to meet the Lord in the air. AD 70 is God's judgment poured upon a disobedient people, and written to be an example for Christ's Church on earth.

Then explain why the kingdoms of earth are become His kingdoms at the 7th Trumpet.

Revelation 11:15

No one is denying the reign of Christ now. Amil deny the coming Day of the Lord, that is prophecied to start at the conclusion of the 7th Trumpet. The will of the Lord will be in earth as it is in heaven, at the 7th Trumpet.

Building a kingdom is one thing. Enjoying that kingdom is the Day of the Lord.

 

[rwb]

I agree. However, using a term like "the Day of the Lord" has implications that may affect how we perceive things like the "Kingdom of God," the "Great Tribulation," and the "Millennial Age."

I find no implications with the Day of the Lord being this age when the Kingdom of God is being built in heaven, and "great tribulation" coming to the Church on earth during this Day of the Lord when the Kingdom of God is being built in the Kingdom of heaven as the Gospel is going out unto all the earth, and since this Day of the Lord comes in time/age/era it equates to the time John symbolizes a thousand years.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Gods Wrath is the result of His ANGER against men who have Rejected Him and Christ Jesus. His Tribulations ARE the consequences upon men WHO have no Confessed Allegiance to Him.

THAT ^ does not apply to a Converted man.

As I said, if you're applying "God's Wrath" to Eternal Punishment, then of course God's Wrath does not apply to Converted man, which I take to mean "Regenerated man." I do not, however, equate "God's Wrath" only with Eternal Punishment.

God's anger has been directed at His saints, at times, too. We've all made God angry--every time we fail to live in love. But He is also merciful, in particular towards those who repent.

Rom 3.3 What if some were unfaithful? Will their unfaithfulness nullify God’s faithfulness? 4 Not at all! Let God be true, and every human being a liar. As it is written:
“So that you may be proved right when you speak
and prevail when you judge.”
5 But if our unrighteousness brings out God’s righteousness more clearly, what shall we say? That God is unjust in bringing his wrath on us? (I am using a human argument.) 6 Certainly not!

There is a difference between God's "wrath," which comes upon us all when we are ungodly, and his "coming wrath," which refers to God's final judgment.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I find no implications with the Day of the Lord being this age when the Kingdom of God is being built in heaven, and "great tribulation" coming to the Church on earth during this Day of the Lord when the Kingdom of God is being built in the Kingdom of heaven as the Gospel is going out unto all the earth, and since this Day of the Lord comes in time/age/era it equates to the time John symbolizes a thousand years.

Yes, I don't know what your position is? I was just referring to the fact that many different opinions exist about what the "Day of the Lord" is. And this can affect one's eschatological outlook. Thank you.

 

[rwb]

Off point. I never say anything to the point you are making.

Don’t confuse a BELIEVER with a CONVERTED BELIEVER, they are NOT the same thing.

My reply was to this statement where you seem to believe we might know who and who is not a believer!

 

[rwb]

The point is not the church enduring until the end.

The point is each individual remain faithful in tribulation, until the end of their physical life. Paul was not expected to endure for 2,000 years.

Each individual believer makes up the Church on earth, who are called to endure to the point of physical death or until Christ comes again on the last day.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The only way the words of the prophets make any sense is to realize their prophesy began to be fulfilled when Christ came to earth a man. Christ came in His Day just as the prophets foretell He would. But for some people the only Day of the Lord coming will be His coming on the last day of this age when time shall be no more. Isaiah is a perfect example of fulfillment of prophesy of Christ coming in His Day/age/time/era. Because the Day of the Lord the prophets foretell has already come, we now look for the final Day of the Lord that will come when time shall be no more.

Right. In the NT, the day of the Lord always refers to the day Christ returns. Both Paul and Peter are very clear that global destruction will occur on that day (not 1,000+ years later). Only doctrinal bias can keep someone from seeing something so obvious as that.

 

[Timtofly]

Cady & Zoe, how do you not realize the period of history you see as when God will vindicate His holy name is the Day of the Lord the prophets foretell would come? Did the Day of the Lord not come when the promised Messiah came to this earth a man? Are we not currently living in and have been living in the Day of the Lord since the advent of Christ, when all that was written of Him must be fulfilled? Will the Day of the Lord not have a final Day when He comes the second time? When the final Day of the Lord we are currently living through comes with the second coming, it will be to gather His Church from this earth then send down fire from heaven to destroy this current earth to make it new again. What would be the purpose of Christ extending another literal ONE thousand years to this earth since His coming again will usher in the new heaven and new earth wherein dwells only the righteous? Christ will come again when the Kingdom is complete. ONE thousand more years makes zero sense because no one will be eternally saved after the Kingdom is complete.

Did the Day of the Lord come as a thief in the night in 4BC at the birth of Jesus?

You are asking if we live in the Day of the Lord, yet how do you reconcile what Peter said in 2 Peter 3? If Peter was in the Day of the Lord, he would not be looking for it to come as a thief in the night.

Once again "completed" is not the point of the NHNE. The point that you reject is Christ sitting as King on a throne in Jerusalem for a thousand years. The kingdom is full after 1,000 years and all those people are born and enjoy that completed kingdom. Then after 1,000 years, God still allows Satan to walk among all those new people on earth, and deceive them into following Satan. No one in Adam's dead corruptible flesh should understand that. But that is what God placed in His Word. We can only accept it as written.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Jer 23: 5 & 6

Where does Scripture speak to you ABOUT....
King(S) in Heaven? Nation(S) in Heaven?

Jesus reigns as KING of/over “mortal” kings on earth (their Nations/kingdoms) from His Kingdom, (Abraham’s Promised Land); from His Throne Jerusalem; (ie the Same, king David’s everlasting throne.) <—> God established;
(2 Sam 7: 13 & 16)

Rev 17:
[14] These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

Why did you not respond to anything I said in my post? Do you not know that Jesus reigns now?

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Ephesians 1:19 and his incomparably great power for us who believe. That power is the same as the mighty strength 20 he exerted when he raised Christ from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, 21 far above all rule and authority, power and dominion, and every name that is invoked, not only in the present age but also in the one to come. 22 And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church, 23 which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.

Revelation 1:5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood, 6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father—to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.

Colossians 1:12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light. 13 For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, 14 in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins.