2 Peter 3:10 The Big Whoosh

[Taken]

Then why does Christ say:

John 18:36 (KJV) Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

Believers do not inherit this earth, but the new earth that shall come. The new earth where there shall be no mortality or corruption.

IN CONTEXT of THAT DAY....Jesus’ Kingdom was IN Heaven, NOT on Earth.
Keep reading, LEARN the NEW KNOWLEDGE Revealed.

A Converted mans INHERITANCE IS the new earth.
What Scripture says Jesus’ earthly Kingdom is a mans inheritance? None.
Jesus’ earthly Kingdom...land, throne, His saints, IS Jesus’ inheritance.
AND FYI, Gods Inheritance IS Converted men.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Yes, the Kingdom of God is at hand then and now, because Christ came with His Kingdom. It is near to all who hear His Gospel, and repent and believe. If the Day of the Lord is future only, why does Luke write in the Acts that Pentecost is fulfillment of the Day of the Lord the prophet Joel foretells would come in the last days?

I don't think Peter was suggesting that Pentecost was a fulfillment of Joel's prophecy. What do I mean? Joel's prophecy is an elaborate and detailed account of the run-up to the Day of the Lord, which includes the outpouring of the Holy Spirit among many other situations and events. Peter finds a parallel between Pentecost and Joel's prediction of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, but Pentecost lacks all the other events which will take place then, such as the celestial events, the locust plagues and the fires.

We've been living in the last days since the first advent of Christ. These last days will come to an end with the final coming of Christ in this time the prophets write as the Day of the Lord. What from the verses below has not been and is not being fulfilled in these last days we have been living in since the day of Pentecost and the Church came with power from above as the Holy Spirit has been liberally poured out upon His sevants?

While we can agree that the Holy Spirit has been poured out on all of God's servants; Joel's prophecy goes one step further. Joel predicts that the Spirit will be poured out on "All flesh", which was not fulfilled during the Pentecost. Yes, we are in the last days, but we are not living during the Day of the Lord yet.

 

[Randy Kluth]

OPEN your ears to what IS actually SAID!

Mortal men and Demonic spirits absolutely DO CAUSE wrath and tribulations AGAINST those “IN” Christ.

God DOES NOT CAUSE wrath and tribulations AGAINST those “IN” Christ.

You just had someone quote to you that God does, in fact, allow tribulation in the life of the believers. And He certainly does punish believers when they go astray, to try to bring them back to sanity.

I would agree with you that God does not *eternally* punish believers, nor does He visit wrath directed towards unbelievers against believers. A case in point was the Roman destruction of the Jewish place of worship, the temple. Jesus indicated this judgment was *not* for his Jewish disciples, and recommended they leave.

 

[Truth7t7]

I want to know what you think it is?

Things God doesn't like, Abomination

Please give your explanation

 

[rwb]

OPEN your ears to what IS actually SAID!

Excuse me???

Mortal men and Demonic spirits absolutely DO CAUSE wrath and tribulations AGAINST those “IN” Christ.

God DOES NOT CAUSE wrath and tribulations AGAINST those “IN” Christ.

Who is providential over the affairs of mankind? God does not CAUSE tribulation to come to His servants, but He certainly does permit it to accomplish His purposes. Consider for example the hardship and tribulation Joseph had to endure through the providence of God for Him to save much people.

Genesis 50:20 (KJV) But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Christ most certainly does warn His disciples throughout this whole age of the Gospel that "great tribulation" would come to the Church on earth as the Church goes unto all the world with the Gospel.

Matthew 24:14 (KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 24:21 (KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

 

[Truth7t7]

I'll answer your question with a question of my own. Do you know what abomination of desolation means? If you know what it means, you will know when, where and how it is being, has been, and will be fulfilled in this era known as the Gospel age as the Kingdom of God is being built through His Church on earth through "great tribulation".

Please Explain How Matthew 24:15 in Daniel's AOD "Has Been Fulfilled" As You Claim Above?

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

 

[Randy Kluth]

I don't think Peter was suggesting that Pentecost was a fulfillment of Joel's prophecy. What do I mean? Joel's prophecy is an elaborate and detailed account of the run-up to the Day of the Lord, which includes the outpouring of the Holy Spirit among many other situations and events. Peter finds a parallel between Pentecost and Joel's prediction of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, but Pentecost lacks all the other events which will take place then, such as the celestial events, the locust plagues and the fires.

While we can agree that the Holy Spirit has been poured out on all of God's servants; Joel's prophecy goes one step further. Joel predicts that the Spirit will be poured out on "All flesh", which was not fulfilled during the Pentecost. Yes, we are in the last days, but we are not living during the Day of the Lord yet.

I agree with you. It is too easy to say that Joel's prophecy of the "Last Days" was completely exhausted and fulfilled in the Early Church and the Day of Pentecost. I'm not at all convinced that's what Peter was implying!

As you say, there is a lot more in this parallel than that kind of interpretation since there are other things that require the development of the International Church, and ultimately world judgment. To say, then, that the "Kingdom arrived" on the Day of Pentecost, appears to be a completely misapplication of what Peter meant. He never said that the Kingdom had come. And on the other hand, Jesus indicated, and Paul confirmed, that the Kingdom has not yet come!

This regular distinction between "Spiritual Kingdom" and "Eschatological Kingdom" is a feature of Amillennial Teaching. And I don't completely disagree with it. I just disagree with conflating the two. The beginning of Salvation and the Age of the Holy Spirit in the NT Era did *not* mean the Eschatological Kingdom had already come or even is in the process of Coming!

Rather, the Kingdom drew "near" in Christ and remains "at hand" with respect to all of humanity, whose eternal souls remain in this tension. And our membership in Christ's Kingdom has already begun in the present age. We just haven't gotten there yet!

 

[rwb]

Things God doesn't like, Abomination

Please give your explanation

I'm not going to make it so easy for you. Do your own study of abomination beginning with the Old Testament because Christ says we should consider what Daniel has written. When you discover what abomination that brings desolation means you might be able to understand how AOD can be both a past and present reality for people of faith.

 

[Truth7t7]

When are believers resurrected?

All the dead will be resurrected on the last day at the second coming (The End) as you have been show several times

 

[rwb]

Please Explain How Matthew 24:15 in Daniel's AOD "Has Been Fulfilled" As You Claim Above?

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

How does anyone know the AOD spoken of by Daniel has already been fulfilled? Is it completely fulfilled? Will it be fulfilled throughout the Church age?

 

[Taken]

The Two Witnesses Will Dominate The Entire Tribulation, Something Many Disregard As Non-Existent

Try Reading Exodus And The Plagues Upon Pharaoh And Egypt, It's Going To Be A Complete Replay

God's Divine Protection, "Open Your Ears"

(Revelation) 13:9-10KJV
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

God's Divine Protection During The Final Hour Of Earth's Temptation, Just Like The Passover In Egypt, "Open Your Ears"

Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.

The Great Trib Will Be Upon The Antichrist And Wicked, The Church Is Protected, Dont Be Deceived

There's Going To Be An End Times Persecution, The Beast And His Kingdom Are The Target Of God's Empowered (Two Witnesses)

The Great Tribulation Will Come Upon The Wicked World, While The (Sealed Church) Is Protected

The (Sealed Church) will be present on earth and protected, when wicked men are tormented 5 months, desiring to die as death flees

All saved believers are (Sealed) by God, Eph 1:13, 4:30

Ephesians 1:13KJV
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30KJV
30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

It Was Commanded, Only Those Without God's Seal Will Be Tormented, The Sealed Church Is Protected

Revelation 9:3-6KJV
3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.
4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.
6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

Plagues upon The Beast and his Kingdom, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt

Sure the Converted ARE sealed...and NOT subject to Gods Wrath.
And ALL believers ARE NOT Converted NOR sealed.
Christ’s Church...ARE the sealed....NOT every man who rises on Sunday morning and goes to A MAN MADE CHURCH ARE members OF Christ’s Church.

The SEALED are “protected” during Gods Tribulations (seals, trumps, vials)....
BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT ON THE FACE OF THE EARTH.

Perhaps you should read, learn, study....NOAH and his family WERE NOT left upon the face of the earth.......WHILE God was Destroying the Earth.

NOTHING NEW under the sun, meaning nothing new....THE SAVED, the SEALED, those IN Christ are not on the earth, WHILE God is destroying kingdoms, kings, cities, nations. THOSE such men for centuries have BUILT and exalted their elaborate BUILDINGS and STRUCTURES and ill gotten WEALTH and POSITIONS......for and as “THEIR glory”....and WHEN God destroys their elaborate buildings, they will moan and cry.

Good grief...review how the whole World reacted when TWO towering buildings in NY fell. Now imagine ALL the elaborate World Structures falling and mountains leveling in destruction. Are you going to be ON EARTH, boo hooing? I’m not.


Regarding the TWO witnesses...no they do not dominate the Earth.
They are sent to JERUSALEM to witness to ISRAEL.

 

[Taken]

You just had someone quote to you that God does, in fact, allow tribulation in the life of the believers. And He certainly does punish believers when they go astray, to try to bring them back to sanity.

I would agree with you that God does not *eternally* punish believers, nor does He visit wrath directed towards unbelievers against believers. A case in point was the Roman destruction of the Jewish place of worship, the temple. Jesus indicated this judgment was *not* for his Jewish disciples, and recommended they leave.

A Believer IS one thing.
A Converted Believer IS an entirely Different thing.

A Converted Believer IS NOT subject to Gods Wrath.

 

[bbyrd009]

I hoped to bring forward Peter's main point, keeping our focus on the eternal

eternal
aion; a space of time, an age

 

[rwb]

I don't think Peter was suggesting that Pentecost was a fulfillment of Joel's prophecy. What do I mean? Joel's prophecy is an elaborate and detailed account of the run-up to the Day of the Lord, which includes the outpouring of the Holy Spirit among many other situations and events. Peter finds a parallel between Pentecost and Joel's prediction of the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, but Pentecost lacks all the other events which will take place then, such as the celestial events, the locust plagues and the fires.

Sorry but that is simply hog wash. Luke could not have been any more clear about fulfillment of Joel's prophetic words of the Day of the Lord coming at Pentecost. You agree there is a partial fulfillment with the outpouring of the Holy Spirit, but then deny the Day of the Lord Luke quotes from the prophet Joel is the Day of the Lord he foretells would come???? Either the Day of the Lord came at Pentecost as the prophet Joel foretells or it did not.

Luke does not find a parallel between Pentecost and Joel's prophesy, he plainly states Pentecost is fulfillment of Joel's prophesy of the Day of the Lord that would come. We can all read and understand that the fullness of Joel's prophesy did not entirely come to pass at Pentecost, but it certainly did usher in the Day of the Lord the prophets foretell would come when the promised Messiah came and "whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Whether you agree or not is irrelevant, because Scripture is clear the Day of the Lord came at Pentecost and was witnessed as the Holy Spirit was poured out.

While we can agree that the Holy Spirit has been poured out on all of God's servants; Joel's prophecy goes one step further. Joel predicts that the Spirit will be poured out on "All flesh", which was not fulfilled during the Pentecost. Yes, we are in the last days, but we are not living during the Day of the Lord yet.

All flesh! Meaning salvation is unto "whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord", not only Jews, but people of every nation on earth.

 

[Truth7t7]

How does anyone know the AOD spoken of by Daniel has already been fulfilled? Is it completely fulfilled? Will it be fulfilled throughout the Church age?

You have made the claim "Has Been Fulfilled", you avoid a direct answer before the forum watching

Please Explain How Matthew 24:15 in Daniel's AOD "Has Been Fulfilled" As You Claim?

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

 

[rwb]

I agree with you. It is too easy to say that Joel's prophecy of the "Last Days" was completely exhausted and fulfilled in the Early Church and the Day of Pentecost. I'm not at all convinced that's what Peter was implying!

Not completely fulfilled because both Joel and Luke speak of this Day of the Lord as when man shall call upon the name of the Lord and whosoever believes will be saved. Pentecost simply marks the beginning of this Day of the Lord, the age of the Gospel going unto all the world, the prophets foretell would come when the promised Messiah came.

 

[Taken]

Excuse me???


Who is providential over the affairs of mankind? God does not CAUSE tribulation to come to His servants, but He certainly does permit it to accomplish His purposes. Consider for example the hardship and tribulation Joseph had to endure through the providence of God for Him to save much people.

Genesis 50:20 (KJV) But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

Christ most certainly does warn His disciples throughout this whole age of the Gospel that "great tribulation" would come to the Church on earth as the Church goes unto all the world with the Gospel.

Matthew 24:14 (KJV) And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matthew 24:21 (KJV) For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Don’t confuse a BELIEVER with a CONVERTED BELIEVER, they are NOT the same thing.

AND WHEN is the gospel of the Kingdom...preached to ALL The World?
Scripture tells us: Between the seventh TRUMP and VIALS...
Men upon the face of the Earth, All hearing Gods Truth, that they can BELIEVE or NOT.

Rev: 14:
[6] And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people.

 

[CadyandZoe]

And you don't believe His name is being vindicated as His Kingdom continues to grow, and the gates of hell cannot prevent it?

No. While it is true that God demonstrates the holiness of his name to us who fear him and trust him and believe in his son, God intends to vindicate his name before the nation.

Let me explain a bit more. God, himself tells us why the nations blaspheme his name.

Let's begin where I started my journey into this question: Romans chapter 2. During my study of Romans, I came across the following verses.

Romans 2:23-24

You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.​

Here Paul is quoting scripture, reminding his Jewish readers that God's name is being blasphemed among the Gentiles because of the Jewish people. The question is, how did the Jewish people cause the Gentiles to blaspheme the name of God? The answer to that is found in the prophets. In order to understand this, I need to give a bit of background information.

The Ancients were polytheists, believing in a group of gods, ruled by the strongest, and most powerful god known as "God almighty." Each region of the earth was associated with at least one god, who was in control of that area. His job was to protect and materially bless the people who lived in that area. All the gods wanted in return was to be worshipped.

Recall the Exodus account when the god, "Yahweh" fought the gods of Egypt for possession of the decedents of Jacob. He defeated the gods of Egypt and took a people out of that land to another land. When his people entered into the promised land, they made a covenant with Yahweh that if they would be a people for him, he would be god for them. If they obeyed Yahweh and kept his commandments, he would protect them from their enemies and bless them with lots of food, lots of animals and lots of children and they would live and worship in peace.

They did not obey, but remained a stiff-necked and stubborn people. So God sent them into exile, allowing the "gods" of Assyria and the "gods" of Babylon to take his people captive. Or should I say, this is how it appeared to the Gentiles. From their point of view, Yahweh was not able to keep a people for himself. He proved himself not to be God Almighty. He was unable to discipline or bless a people and keep them, allowing them to live in peace.

Now, to blaspheme God is to promote a lie or a falsehood about him. And so what was the specific lie or falsehood that the Gentiles told each other? Yahweh was not strong enough to keep a people for himself. He was not up to the task. He made a bunch of promises he couldn't keep. And he allowed other gods to defeat him. None of this is true, of course, but among the Gentiles, this is the lie they tell each other, based solely on observation. If the Gentiles are calling balls and strikes, it appears that Yahweh struck out.

We read about this in the prophets Isaiah and Ezekiel.

Isaiah 52:3-6

For thus says the Lord, “You were sold for nothing and you will be redeemed without money.” For thus says the Lord God, “My people went down at the first into Egypt to reside there; then the Assyrian oppressed them without cause. Now therefore, what do I have here,” declares the Lord, “seeing that My people have been taken away without cause?” Again the Lord declares, “Those who rule over them howl, and My name is continually blasphemed all day long. Therefore My people shall know My name; therefore in that day I am the one who is speaking, ‘Here I am.’”​

From the perspective of the nations, God's people were taken from him without cause. It wasn't for punishment that he sent them into exile. It was simply that the gods of Babylon were stronger and more powerful, which is the lie they tell each other. The Lord, through Ezekiel, gives more detail.

Ezekiel 36:16-21

Then the word of the Lord came to me saying, “Son of man, when the house of Israel was living in their own land, they defiled it by their ways and their deeds; their way before Me was like the uncleanness of a woman in her impurity. Therefore I poured out My wrath on them for the blood which they had shed on the land, because they had defiled it with their idols. Also I scattered them among the nations and they were dispersed throughout the lands. According to their ways and their deeds I judged them. When they came to the nations where they went, they profaned My holy name, because it was said of them, ‘These are the people of the Lord; yet they have come out of His land.’ But I had concern for My holy name, which the house of Israel had profaned among the nations where they went.​

In order for God to answer this challenge, he must bring his people back out of exile, place them in the land again, bring other "gods" against them, and defeat these other gods in the presence of the nations. In addition, they must be a people for him, keeping his commandments, fearing his name, and remaining loyal to him the entire time. At the same time, he must be a God for them, protecting them from enemies, blessing them materially, and pouring out his spirit on them all.

Only in that way can God restore the holiness of his name.

 

[Truth7t7]

Regarding the TWO witnesses...no they do not dominate the Earth.
They are sent to JERUSALEM to witness to ISRAEL.

This Is A Prime Example Why Your Claims Aren't Taken Seriously

The (Two Witnesses) bring God's judgment upon (The Beast) and wicked world through ",Plagues", a far cry from your claims of witnessing to Israel "Big Smiles"!

Revelation 11:6 & 10KJV
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

 

[rwb]

You have made the claim "Has Been Fulfilled", you avoid a direct answer before the forum watching

Please Explain How Matthew 24:15 in Daniel's AOD "Has Been Fulfilled" As You Claim?

Matthew 24:15KJV
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

The abomination of desolation spoken by Daniel began when Christ came and His people rejected Him, and their house was left unto them desolate. (Mt 23:38) Jerusalem and the Temple was the holy place unto God. And the destruction in AD 70 was written to be an example for Christ's Church as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth. AOD according to Daniel came to the nation when the promised Messiah was cut off. The cross, the ultimate betrayal by Daniel's people, the leaders of the Jews ceased to be the holy people unto God.

Daniel 9:26-27 (KJV) And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

This warning of AOD is written for His disciples, the Church on earth as the Gospel is proclaimed unto all the earth. The same thing that happened to the nation of Israel can happen to the Church. The Church too can reject Christ. This is clear from all the warnings in Scripture. When the Church rejects Christ it too has become an abomination unto God and the result is the Church becomes a desolation without light and life, a church in name only, just as Jerusalem is today. Just as the holy people, city and temple had the light of God taken from them, so too Christ warns His Church on earth that we too can fall when we reject our first love which is rejection of Christ. Unlike the Jews of old who refused to repent, the Church on earth is called again and again to repent and do what we are called for, build the Kingdom that is through the love of Christ.

Revelation 2:4-5 (KJV) Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.