2 Peter 3:10 The Big Whoosh

[CadyandZoe]

Hi all,
I just finished my latest video, which was inspired by my discussion with folks on the thread concerning Amillennialism. I want to thank all those who stuck with me and helped me understand the topic better.

Here is a link to the video.

Title: The Big Whoosh 2Peter 3:10

Opening line: Today we are going to examine 2 Peter chapter 3. Peter will mention the Day of the Lord and the Second Coming of Christ, but his main point is focused on the believer's standpoint with regard to the total destruction of the heavens and the earth, or what I am calling the “Big Whoosh” based on Peter's remark that the heavens and earth will pass away with a roar.

I hope you enjoy it. Let me know what you think.

@WPM @Spiritual Israelite @Timtofly @Truth7t7 @covenantee @Randy Kluth @jeffweeder @Marty fox @Charlie24 @stunnedbygrace @The Light

 

[Randy Kluth]

I always enjoy your videos, and this one was no different. As usual it stirred up all of the right questions for me, and also placed a premium on the relevant concerns we should have--eternal concerns as opposed to temporal concerns.

The things that I have yet to resolve for myself is whether the "destruction of the world" indicates the annihilation of the planet at the end of the Millennium or not? From various Scripture passages, it seems not. A few verses indicate the earth is "forever."

This makes me wonder if Peter's remarks about this universal destruction is just a matter of scraping off the surface pagan civilizations from the planet, while leaving the planet basically intact? After all, the dissolving of elements is nothing more than millions of local fires across the earth.

Each fire dissolves elements, and the purpose seems to be to remove the government and followers of the Antichrist. The destruction of the earth may simply indicate a million fires in cities throughout the world, upending the world control by pagan civilizations and governments?

Thanks again. You make excellent videos. And I absolutely love visuals--it compounds the effectiveness of the message!

 

[CadyandZoe]

I always enjoy your videos, and this one was no different. As usual it stirred up all of the right questions for me, and also placed a premium on the relevant concerns we should have--eternal concerns as opposed to temporal concerns.

The things that I have yet to resolve for myself is whether the "destruction of the world" indicates the annihilation of the planet at the end of the Millennium or not? From various Scripture passages, it seems not. A few verses indicate the earth is "forever."

This makes me wonder if Peter's remarks about this universal destruction is just a matter of scraping off the surface pagan civilizations from the planet, while leaving the planet basically intact? After all, the dissolving of elements is nothing more than millions of local fires across the earth.

Each fire dissolves elements, and the purpose seems to be to remove the government and followers of the Antichrist. The destruction of the earth may simply indicate a million fires in cities throughout the world, upending the world control by pagan civilizations and governments?

Thanks again. You make excellent videos. And I absolutely love visuals--it compounds the effectiveness of the message!

Thanks Randy. I am also usure about the amount of destruction that will take place. Thanks for your encouragement.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Thanks Randy. I am also usure about the amount of destruction that will take place. Thanks for your encouragement.

You do a *fantastic* job with your video presentations! Please be encouraged. It is more than being perfect doctrinally. Every presentation has inserted within it biblical values that are of eternal worth!

 

[CadyandZoe]

You do a *fantastic* job with your video presentations! Please be encouraged. It is more than being perfect doctrinally. Every presentation has inserted within it biblical values that are of eternal worth!

Thanks. I love making them and my sincere hope is that my fellow brothers and sisters will continue to love the Lord and love each other.

 

[Truth7t7]

Hi all,
I just finished my latest video, which was inspired by my discussion with folks on the thread concerning Amillennialism. I want to thank all those who stuck with me and helped me understand the topic better.

Here is a link to the video.

Title: The Big Whoosh 2Peter 3:10

Opening line: Today we are going to examine 2 Peter chapter 3. Peter will mention the Day of the Lord and the Second Coming of Christ, but his main point is focused on the believer's standpoint with regard to the total destruction of the heavens and the earth, or what I am calling the “Big Whoosh” based on Peter's remark that the heavens and earth will pass away with a roar.

I hope you enjoy it. Let me know what you think.

@WPM @Spiritual Israelite @Timtofly @Truth7t7 @covenantee @Randy Kluth @jeffweeder @Marty fox @Charlie24 @stunnedbygrace @The Light

Nice production, I disagree with many of its claims

 

[CadyandZoe]

Nice production, I disagree with many of its claims

Thank you for watching. Hopefully, through this video, you have a fair idea where I stand on this particular passage. I hoped to bring forward Peter's main point, keeping our focus on the eternal. Let go of the things that will not last, and strengthen the things that will last. Place people over things; value truth, justice, righteousness, faith and hope. My eschatology might be wrong, but hopefully I got the essentials.

 

[Keraz]

Analysis of 2 Peter 3:10 The Day of the Lord will come like a thief. On that Day, the heavens will disappear with a great rushing sound, the elements will be dissolved in flames and the earth with all that is in it will be brought to judgement.

Is this verse about the Return of Jesus? No, for the following reasons:

1/ Day of the Lord – His Return is not called that in Revelation 19 or Matthew 24.

2/ Like a thief – After the ‘abomination of desolation is placed into the 3rd Temple, we are given 3 specific time periods – 3½ years, or 42 months, or 1260 days. This will allow an exact calculation of His Return, at that time.

3/ The Heavens disappear and the elements dissolve - As He will Return ‘on the clouds”, it is rather difficult to imagine this happening at that time.

4/ All the earth judged - Jesus will destroy the armies of the Anti Christ and He will divide the remaining nations. [the sheep and goat judgement] But the final judgement of all people, alive and dead, is at the end of the Millennium.



Is it the Great white Throne judgement? To happen at the end of the Millennium period.

1/ Day of the Lord – not described as such in Revelation 20-21 or Daniel 7:9-10.

2/Like a thief– Jesus will have reigned on earth for 1000 years.

3/ The heavens will disappear with a great rushing sound – The earth and heavens flee.

4/ The elements will be dissolved in flames – Only the Lake of fire is mentioned in Rev., not a fire judgement of all mankind.

5/ The earth and all that is in it, judged – All those that are alive at that time, not the dead, as in Revelation 20:12. Note – the KJV says; the earth and all its works.


What this verse does fit, is the next prophesied event – the Day of the Lord's vengeance and wrath. Isaiah 34:5, Hebrews 10:27, Malachi 4:1, Isaiah 29:5-6, Deuteronomy 32:41-43, Revelation 6:12-17

1/ The Day of the Lord – This is mentioned many times, always in conjunction with a terrible judgement against His enemies, by fire and sword.

2/ Like a thief – Yes, this will certainly be an unexpected event.

3/ The heavens will disappear with a great rushing sound - Paralleled by Revelation 6:14 and Isaiah 34:4 ‘the sky rolled up like a scroll’. Description of what will happen to the sky when a huge coronal mass ejection hits the earth.

4/ The elements dissolved in flames - Many prophecies say how the earth will be devastated: the land burnt clean, whole cities just heaps of white ash, etc.

5/ The earth and all those in it, judged - This Day will be a worldwide event. Isaiah 66: 15-17 The Lord is coming in fire, like a whirlwind, He will judge with fire. His sword will test mankind, many will be slain by Him.

Haggai 2:6-7 & 21-22 The Lord says: In a little while from now, I shall shake the heavens and the earth, I will shake all the nations, their treasure will come to Jerusalem.

Hebrews 12:26-29 [In ancient times]His voice shook the earth and now He has promised ‘Once again, I shall shake the earth and the heavens’. The words ‘once again’ point to the removal of created things, of all that is shaken, so that what cannot be shaken, may remain. The Kingdom we are given is unshakeable, let us, therefore give thanks to God for it and worship Him with reverence and awe – for our God is a devouring fire.

2 Peter 3:11-13, THEN goes on to tell about the Day of God, when the new heavens and earth will come.
Note carefully that 2 Peter 3:10 refers to the Day of the Lord and 2 Peter 3:12 refers to the Day of God.

 

[Truth7t7]

This makes me wonder if Peter's remarks about this universal destruction is just a matter of scraping off the surface pagan civilizations from the planet, while leaving the planet basically intact? After all, the dissolving of elements is nothing more than millions of local fires across the earth.

Your claim of millions of local fires across the earth is "Malarkey" the heavens and earth are "Dissolved" by the Lord's fire in final judgement, it will be a completely new creation

2 Peter 3:10-13KJV
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,
12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?
13 Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.

Revelation 21:1-5KJV
1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.

 

[Truth7t7]

Thank you for watching. Hopefully, through this video, you have a fair idea where I stand on this particular passage. I hoped to bring forward Peter's main point, keeping our focus on the eternal. Let go of the things that will not last, and strengthen the things that will last. Place people over things; value truth, justice, righteousness, faith and hope. My eschatology might be wrong, but hopefully I got the essentials.

Unfortunately you deny the deity of Jesus Christ, a foundational essential for the Christian faith IMHO

 

[Randy Kluth]

Unfortunately you deny the deity of Jesus Christ, a foundational essential for the Christian faith IMHO

You're welcome to your opinion. But don't think that by repeating the same old arguments that they become any stronger. You've not in the least been able to argue the main argument against your view, which is that the Bible says, repeatedly, that the *earth is forever.* So universal dissolution of elements means, for me, a Bible believer, that elements dissolve all across the earth in universal locations. And the purpose is to remove pagan control of the world, as the Bible itself says.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Unfortunately you deny the deity of Jesus Christ, a foundational essential for the Christian faith IMHO

Now, why did you bring this up?
It seems so out of place and a complete non-sequitur.
This really deserves its own thread, but here is the essential point I want to make here.
You, and others, wield the doctrine like a cudgel and use it to derail threads.
Look how effective it is. Simply mention the doctrine and all of a sudden you have permission to ignore anything else I might say here, in this thread.
The question on the table, here, is whether or not I have properly explicated what Peter meant to say.

Again, thanks for watching the video, and I appreciate all comments, even those who disagree with me. So keep posting and don't give up.

 

[Marilyn C]

Hi all,
I just finished my latest video, which was inspired by my discussion with folks on the thread concerning Amillennialism. I want to thank all those who stuck with me and helped me understand the topic better.

Here is a link to the video.

Title: The Big Whoosh 2Peter 3:10

Opening line: Today we are going to examine 2 Peter chapter 3. Peter will mention the Day of the Lord and the Second Coming of Christ, but his main point is focused on the believer's standpoint with regard to the total destruction of the heavens and the earth, or what I am calling the “Big Whoosh” based on Peter's remark that the heavens and earth will pass away with a roar.

I hope you enjoy it. Let me know what you think.

@WPM @Spiritual Israelite @Timtofly @Truth7t7 @covenantee @Randy Kluth @jeffweeder @Marty fox @Charlie24 @stunnedbygrace @The Light

Hi CadyandZoe,

Excellent production: clear and understandable.

Just one point, the word Day in Hebrew or Greek refers to a specific day, and also a period of time. Thus, the Day of the Lord you mentioned was the specific day the Lord returns like a thief. However, there is also the Day of the Lord period of time when it starts, as a period of time.

Joel 2: 1 (& others) reveal this beginning of the period of time, Day of the Lord. it is when the northern army comes against Israel. 1 Thess. 5:2 also speaks of the Day of the Lord, time period beginning as a thief. And the Body of Christ will not be overtaken by it.

So, on your timeline I would suggest that the beginning of the Day of the Lord, as a time period, is from the northern army, (Russia etc) coming against Israel, through the trib, (inserting the Day of the Lord specific when the Lord comes) and through the millennium to the NHNE.

Hope that is helpful. Marilyn.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Hi CadyandZoe,

Excellent production: clear and understandable.

Just one point, the word Day in Hebrew or Greek refers to a specific day, and also a period of time. Thus, the Day of the Lord you mentioned was the specific day the Lord returns like a thief. However, there is also the Day of the Lord period of time when it starts, as a period of time.

Joel 2: 1 (& others) reveal this beginning of the period of time, Day of the Lord. it is when the northern army comes against Israel. 1 Thess. 5:2 also speaks of the Day of the Lord, time period beginning as a thief. And the Body of Christ will not be overtaken by it.

So, on your timeline I would suggest that the beginning of the Day of the Lord, as a time period, is from the northern army, (Russia etc) coming against Israel, through the trib, (inserting the Day of the Lord specific when the Lord comes) and through the millennium to the NHNE.

Hope that is helpful. Marilyn.

Hi Marilyn,
Thanks for watching the video and your helpful comments.

 

[The PuP]

Hi all,
I just finished my latest video, which was inspired by my discussion with folks on the thread concerning Amillennialism. I want to thank all those who stuck with me and helped me understand the topic better.

Here is a link to the video.

Title: The Big Whoosh 2Peter 3:10

Opening line: Today we are going to examine 2 Peter chapter 3. Peter will mention the Day of the Lord and the Second Coming of Christ, but his main point is focused on the believer's standpoint with regard to the total destruction of the heavens and the earth, or what I am calling the “Big Whoosh” based on Peter's remark that the heavens and earth will pass away with a roar.

I hope you enjoy it. Let me know what you think.

@WPM @Spiritual Israelite @Timtofly @Truth7t7 @covenantee @Randy Kluth @jeffweeder @Marty fox @Charlie24 @stunnedbygrace @The Light

Could you comment on the use of the word "promise" found in verses 4,9, and 13. I think it is a key element to understanding the timing of what Peter is saying, especially where he says "scoffers will say 'where is the promise of his coming'". As usual, excellent video production job.
Be Blessed
The PuP

 

[Christian Gedge]

I hope you enjoy it. Let me know what you think.

A classy production. Pity your ‘Day of the Lord’ was a thousand years long, but nicely done nonetheless. I was quite taken with the guy tossing the weights. Wondered what would happen if one fell on his foot.

 

[ewq1938]

Hi all,
I just finished my latest video, which was inspired by my discussion with folks on the thread concerning Amillennialism. I want to thank all those who stuck with me and helped me understand the topic better.

Here is a link to the video.

Title: The Big Whoosh 2Peter 3:10

Opening line: Today we are going to examine 2 Peter chapter 3. Peter will mention the Day of the Lord and the Second Coming of Christ, but his main point is focused on the believer's standpoint with regard to the total destruction of the heavens and the earth, or what I am calling the “Big Whoosh” based on Peter's remark that the heavens and earth will pass away with a roar.

I hope you enjoy it. Let me know what you think.

@WPM @Spiritual Israelite @Timtofly @Truth7t7 @covenantee @Randy Kluth @jeffweeder @Marty fox @Charlie24 @stunnedbygrace @The Light

In that passage, Peter is not talking about the second coming. Terms like the Day of the Lord and a thief in the night are not exclusive to the second coming, plus Rev 20-21 is quite clear that the "whoosh" of the NHNE happens only once the GWTJ is over, which is after the second coming in both Amil and Premill.

 

[WPM]

Hi all,
I just finished my latest video, which was inspired by my discussion with folks on the thread concerning Amillennialism. I want to thank all those who stuck with me and helped me understand the topic better.

Here is a link to the video.

Title: The Big Whoosh 2Peter 3:10

Opening line: Today we are going to examine 2 Peter chapter 3. Peter will mention the Day of the Lord and the Second Coming of Christ, but his main point is focused on the believer's standpoint with regard to the total destruction of the heavens and the earth, or what I am calling the “Big Whoosh” based on Peter's remark that the heavens and earth will pass away with a roar.

I hope you enjoy it. Let me know what you think.

@WPM @Spiritual Israelite @Timtofly @Truth7t7 @covenantee @Randy Kluth @jeffweeder @Marty fox @Charlie24 @stunnedbygrace @The Light

Very well put together video. Pity the detail that you present is not true.

Nowhere does Peter teach that the day of the Lord equals a literal period of one thousand years+ and an unknown period of time after that for Satan’s little season. Premillennialists force that upon 2 Peter 3. That chapter powerfully shows the wholesale climactic destruction of the universe (including the solar system) that arrives unexpectedly when the day of the Lord arrives. The onset of this day catches the mockers and scoffers in the narrative sneeringly rejecting the promise of His coming in the blazing conflagration.

Not only does the day of the Lord arrive suddenly, but the devastation accompanying it does also. In fact, the actual day in view is marked by wholesale fiery destruction. Individual days in Scripture are normally presented in such a clear and obvious detail, to show us what marks its continuation.

The meaning and actual length of the day mentioned here (however long it is), must relate to a specific time-period in which the detail described in the narrative continues throughout its duration. To argue otherwise is to totally deny the meaning of the passage. Moreover, whatever is portrayed within the aforementioned day is introduced suddenly to this kosmos – “like a thief in the night.” David Brown, in his classic book ‘Christ’s Second coming: Will it be Premillennial?’ rightly explains, “terms and phrases, expressive of perpetuity, are to be stretched no further than the known duration of the thing spoken.”

Our Premillennialist brethren make much of the linkage between Revelation 20 and 2 Peter 3; however, it is this very connection that highlights the inconsistency of their position. A close analysis of both passages illustrates the error of this comparison and underlines the many glaring contradictions in their school of thought. In fact, the core of the Premillennial confusion is seen in their correlation of the “thousand years” mentioned in Revelation 20 with the arrival and duration of “the day of the Lord” (2 Peter 3). Premils build their corroboration of Revelation 20 on a mistaken interpretation of 2 Peter 3:5-9, which says, “one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.” From this, Premils insist on the idea that the day of the Lord is to last a literal 1,000 years – terminating with the fiery destruction.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Could you comment on the use of the word "promise" found in verses 4,9, and 13. I think it is a key element to understanding the timing of what Peter is saying, especially where he says "scoffers will say 'where is the promise of his coming'". As usual, excellent video production job.
Be Blessed
The PuP

I don't see any timing clues in his exhortation. As he says, the day of the Lord comes like a thief in the night, which means that his coming is indeterminate. All we really know is that the promise hasn't been fulfilled yet and some people will grow impatient.
What did you have in mind?

 

[CadyandZoe]

In that passage, Peter is not talking about the second coming. Terms like the Day of the Lord and a thief in the night are not exclusive to the second coming, plus Rev 20-21 is quite clear that the "whoosh" of the NHNE happens only once the GWTJ is over, which is after the second coming in both Amil and Premill.

Well ewq1938,
What do you make of verse 4?