Original Sin (or sin nature) in the Bible:

[Bible Highlighter]

No one can be a sinner apart from sinning (transgressing God's law) and no one was born a sinner for no one was born transgressing God's law. If people are born sinners, then what transgression did they commit at conception, in the womb that would make them be born a sinner?

Again, sin is not just an idea that is passed from person to person nor is sin a substance or disease like cancer that is passed from person to person but sin is transgression each person commits himself.

All men sinned in Adam just as Levi paid tithes to Abraham.

 

[Titus]

No, you are contradicting the Bible. Because we are all descended from Adam we have all inherited his sin nature. All humans have sinned and are condemned to death, except...

Romans 3:21-26, "But now, apart from the law, the righteousness of God has been disclosed and is attested by the Law and the Prophets, the righteousness of God through the faith of Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction, since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God; they are now justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a sacrifice of atonement by his blood, effective through faith. He did this to demonstrate his righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over the sins previously committed; it was to demonstrate at the present time his own righteousness, so that he is righteous and he justifies the one who has the faith of Jesus."

All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, OUR SINS. Where dies this passage refer to Adam's sins? It does not, read it again please.

We have all inherited Adam's sin nature?

You are aware Adam sinned without any innate sinful nature? God made him upright in the image of God, Genesis 1:27.

Jim B, Word definition of nature must be understood to get Gods breathed message to man, rightly divided.

We cannot inherit Adam's sin because that contradicts Scripture, Ezekial 18:20.
We also cannot inherit Adam's imaginary sin nature because Adam commited his sin WITHOUT A SINFUL NATURE. All, son by free will just as Adam sinned.
No need to have a depraved inherited sin nature to commit sin. Adam sinned upright, created in Gods image and we likewise sin as Adam sinned.

OS, makes innocent babies who die at birth or aborted going to hell.
Do you really believe God is love for condemning babies who no not right from wrong?

Deuteronomy 1:29
-Moreover your little ones and your children, who you say will be victims, who today have no knowledge good and evil

 

[Titus]

Genesis 3:19 = 1Corinthians 15:22

Gen. 3:19
-In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, Till you return to the ground...

1Corinthians 15:22
-For as in Adam all die...

Physical death comes from Adam's sin.

 

[Titus]

No verse teaches man is innately born with a nature that causes him to sin. Such an idea makes man a victim of sin rather than the guilty perpetrator that he is and it would make God injust, unrighteous for condemning men for how they were innately born against their will.

Men today BECOME sinners just as Adam and Eve became sinners. They were not created sinners nor created with a sinful nature but they were created 1)with a free will and 2) given a law to follow, specifically to not eat of a specific tree. Likewise men today are created upright (Eccl 7:29), created with a free will and CHOOSE to sin, not FORCED to sin by an innate sinful nature. Since men CHOOSE to sin, then God can rightly and justly condemn men for their own free will choices.

Rom 4:15 if there were no law then there would be no transgression
1 Jn 3:4 sin is transgression of the law

Adam and Eve sinned as we sinned for we HAVE law and FREELY CHOOSE to transgress that law thereby men BECOME sinners making the idea of Original sin impossible. Therefore the idea of OS does not need to even exist for men to become sinners.

If all are innatley born with a sinful nature, then Christ would have been born with it also..... "Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like (this would include OS, sinful nature) his brethren,..." (Heb 2:17) "....but was in all points (this would include OS, sinful nature) tempted like as we are," (Heb 4:15) "....and was made in the likeness of men (this would include OS, sinful nature) And being found in fashion as a man (this would include OS, sinful nature)" (Phil 2:7-8). If Christ was not born with OS or sinful nature, then He was not made like men, He could not understand what it was really like to be a human without the temption and sinning men face due to this supposed sinful nature.

 

[Jim B]

I disagree with you. You wrote, "we HAVE law and FREELY CHOOSE to transgress that law" Paul wrote in Romans 3:9c, "For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin." and Romans 5:12, "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned". Romans 5:15b, "For if the many died by the trespass of the one man" Romans 5:17a, " For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man". Romans 5:18-19, "Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous." Romans 7:17, "As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me." Romans 7:25b, "So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin."

I suggest that you read Romans and pay attention to what Paul wrote about sin and the sin nature that we inherited from Adam.

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

The Bible clearly says that since we are all descended from Adam, sin and death are inherited through him. Every single person has it in their nature to sin.

Romans 5:12-14, "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned— for sin was indeed in the world before the law, but sin is not reckoned when there is no law."

1 Corinthians 15:21-22, "For since death came through a human, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human, for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ.

Ther has been only one exception: Jesus Christ. He alone was born without sin. Hebrews 4:15, "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who in every respect has been tested as we are, yet without sin.

Your reasoning is contrary to Scripture.

You CLAIM OS is true for eveyone but then make an exception for Christ. Christ would be no exception as I pointed out in an earlier post. And if you can make exceptions for Christ, then I can make exceptions for infants and those born with severe mental diabilities who are unable to understand the Bible.

Christ was without sin for He chose not to sin. Again, Adam and Eve were sinners not because they were created sinners but because they had 1) free will 2) a law given them and they used their free will to choose to sin. We today BECOME sinners following in the steps of Adam and Eve in choosing to transgress God's law.

Also, if we all inherited Adam's sin then we would all be sinners and die for the same exact sin Adam committed. Yet Paul says in Rom 5:14 "Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come." People spiritually die as a result of their OWN SINS, sins that are not like the transgression of Adam. If people die as a result of their inheriting the same sin of Adam, then there would be no distinction in sins yet Paul clearly points out a distinction between Adam's sin and the sin men commit that are different from Adam's sin. "The distinction between theirs and Adam's would be non-existent if they had died because of Adam's sin. People die because of their own sins. ( Col 2:13; Eph 2:1 )." Dunagan's Commentary

 

[Ernest T. Bass]

All men sinned in Adam just as Levi paid tithes to Abraham.

This is not found in the Bible.

Rom 5:18
(a) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
(b) even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

If 15(a) is true, then "even so" 15 (b) is true.

If 15(a) teaches 'all men' are sinners due to offense of one (Adam) then "even so" that same 'all men' will be made justified by the righteousness of one (Christ) and you have universalism.

Paul's point being in v15 that the righteousness of Christ has provided a remedy for all those who have been affected by the sin of Adam.
"From the condemnation that came upon all men through one trespass we are released by the justification of life through the one act of righteousness of Jesus Christ. It seems certain that this one act of righteousness was the death of Christ. Hence, the justification to life frees us from the condemnation that came through the trespass of Adam." Whiteside's Romans Commentary

Paul gives further explanation of verse 18 in verse 19. Note how Paul goes from "all men" in v18 to "many" in verse 19. Paul uses "many" for not everyone universally will unconditionally be made a sinner, as Christ, infants and those born with severe mental disabilities will not be unconditionally made sinners. Likewise not everyone universally will unconditionally be made righteous for there is no universalism in salvation.

"It is pure assumption to argue that the disobedience of Adam is imputed to his offspring, or that the obedience of Christ is imputed to anybody. Neither guilt nor personal righteousness can be transferred from one person to another, but the consequences of
either may, to some extent, fall upon others.
By his sin Adam brought about conditions that make every person subject to temptation. In this way he made sinners. Tom Paine made infidels; but that does not mean that his infidelity was imputed to others, or that they did not become infidels by their own free choice. Christ became obedient unto death (Phil. 2:8), and that act of obedience makes many people righteous. As Adam's disobedience did not make the many sinners without their choice, so neither does the obedience of Christ make the many righteous without their choice. " Whiteside



So OS not found in this verse, Calvinism limitted atonement is also refuted by this verse

 

[Titus]

I disagree with you. You wrote, "we HAVE law and FREELY CHOOSE to transgress that law" Paul wrote in Romans 3:9c, "For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin." and Romans 5:12, "Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned". Romans 5:15b, "For if the many died by the trespass of the one man" Romans 5:17a, " For if, by the trespass of the one man, death reigned through that one man". Romans 5:18-19, "Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous." Romans 7:17, "As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me." Romans 7:25b, "So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin."

I suggest that you read Romans and pay attention to what Paul wrote about sin and the sin nature that we inherited from Adam.

You cannot understand Romans 5:18-19, without including Romans 5:20
-For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, do also by one Mans obedience many will be made righteous.
20 -Moreover the LAW ENTERED THAT THE OFFENSE MIGHT ABOUND. But where sin abounded, grace abounded much more.

Because of Adam's sin God instituted law. By Gods law many were made sinners because of Adam's disobedience.

Paul never taught many were made sinners because Adam's sin was imputed to all men.
We are made sinners by transgression of Gods law, that law was brought into the world by God because of Adam's sin.
Ezekial 18:20 refutes your interpretation of Romans.
Since your doctrine contradicts the Bible, it cannot hold up to scrutiny, therefore must be disregarded.

Ezekiel 18:20
-The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is not found in the Bible.

Rom 5:18
(a) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
(b) even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

If 15(a) is true, then "even so" 15 (b) is true.

If 15(a) teaches 'all men' are sinners due to offense of one (Adam) then "even so" that same 'all men' will be made justified by the righteousness of one (Christ) and you have universalism.

Paul's point being in v15 that the righteousness of Christ has provided a remedy for all those who have been affected by the sin of Adam.
"From the condemnation that came upon all men through one trespass we are released by the justification of life through the one act of righteousness of Jesus Christ. It seems certain that this one act of righteousness was the death of Christ. Hence, the justification to life frees us from the condemnation that came through the trespass of Adam." Whiteside's Romans Commentary

Paul gives further explanation of verse 18 in verse 19. Note how Paul goes from "all men" in v18 to "many" in verse 19. Paul uses "many" for not everyone universally will unconditionally be made a sinner, as Christ, infants and those born with severe mental disabilities will not be unconditionally made sinners. Likewise not everyone universally will unconditionally be made righteous for there is no universalism in salvation.

"It is pure assumption to argue that the disobedience of Adam is imputed to his offspring, or that the obedience of Christ is imputed to anybody. Neither guilt nor personal righteousness can be transferred from one person to another, but the consequences of
either may, to some extent, fall upon others.
By his sin Adam brought about conditions that make every person subject to temptation. In this way he made sinners. Tom Paine made infidels; but that does not mean that his infidelity was imputed to others, or that they did not become infidels by their own free choice. Christ became obedient unto death (Phil. 2:8), and that act of obedience makes many people righteous. As Adam's disobedience did not make the many sinners without their choice, so neither does the obedience of Christ make the many righteous without their choice. " Whiteside



So OS not found in this verse, Calvinism limitted atonement is also refuted by this verse

Lets skip back and understand what is being said here.

Romans 5:12-114 says:
12 “Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.”

Sin is not imputed when there is no law…. NEVERTHELESS death (which was by sin) reigned from Adam to Moses, and this happened not after the likeness of Adam’s transgression (Whereby he sinned by breaking God’s command). Sin still reigned despite the breaking of a command. But Adam was a figure of the Last Adam In the sense that Adam brought forth death upon all (But Christ brings life unto all). Note: Granted, there are exceptions to the rule on this like Revelation 13:8, and Revelation 17:8.

Anyways, in 1 Corinthians 15, it says in Adam, all die. In Christ all shall be made alive. So… if one is in Adam… they are dead. DEAD.
So what is the status of a baby “in Adam” when they are born into this world?
If they are in Adam, they must be dead in some way.
I see it like this: Physically the baby is born in Adam. They are going to die physically someday because the wages of sin is death by Adam’s one time sin. Sin (by Adam) had tainted this world. Even the ground was cursed.
But I believe that all babies are saved spiritually by Christ’s sacrifice because if a baby dies, they will be with the LORD in His Kingdom.
Jesus’ sacrifice who took away the sins of the whole world took away your sins as a baby. But when you grew up, and sinned, then you were separated from God and you need to repent and be born again spiritually and come back to the LORD.

In John 1:29, Jesus is said to be the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the whole world. This is when we were as babies. For if Jesus did not go to the cross, we would all be doomed (even babies). But if salvation could have been by us dying as babies, then that is another way of salvation besides Jesus Christ. I do not see salvation outside of Christ. You might, but I don’t.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

This is not found in the Bible.

Rom 5:18
(a) Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
(b) even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

If 15(a) is true, then "even so" 15 (b) is true.

If 15(a) teaches 'all men' are sinners due to offense of one (Adam) then "even so" that same 'all men' will be made justified by the righteousness of one (Christ) and you have universalism.

Paul's point being in v15 that the righteousness of Christ has provided a remedy for all those who have been affected by the sin of Adam.
"From the condemnation that came upon all men through one trespass we are released by the justification of life through the one act of righteousness of Jesus Christ. It seems certain that this one act of righteousness was the death of Christ. Hence, the justification to life frees us from the condemnation that came through the trespass of Adam." Whiteside's Romans Commentary

Paul gives further explanation of verse 18 in verse 19. Note how Paul goes from "all men" in v18 to "many" in verse 19. Paul uses "many" for not everyone universally will unconditionally be made a sinner, as Christ, infants and those born with severe mental disabilities will not be unconditionally made sinners. Likewise not everyone universally will unconditionally be made righteous for there is no universalism in salvation.

"It is pure assumption to argue that the disobedience of Adam is imputed to his offspring, or that the obedience of Christ is imputed to anybody. Neither guilt nor personal righteousness can be transferred from one person to another, but the consequences of
either may, to some extent, fall upon others.
By his sin Adam brought about conditions that make every person subject to temptation. In this way he made sinners. Tom Paine made infidels; but that does not mean that his infidelity was imputed to others, or that they did not become infidels by their own free choice. Christ became obedient unto death (Phil. 2:8), and that act of obedience makes many people righteous. As Adam's disobedience did not make the many sinners without their choice, so neither does the obedience of Christ make the many righteous without their choice. " Whiteside



So OS not found in this verse, Calvinism limitted atonement is also refuted by this verse

Think it about like this:

If Adam did not eat the wrong tree, and he ate only the good tree (Which would have given him eternal life), he would have been immortal and his descendants would have been immortal. But seeing Adam ate of the tree that brought death, even the majority of most of his descendants would see death as a result of this choice.

Side Note:

Now, you may protest and say that maybe if Adam ate only of the good tree and lived eternally only applied to Adam and not his descendants. They would have to eat of the tree of life, too. But I don’t believe that would be the case. Why? Well, Adam’s descendants did not have to keep eating of the wrong tree in order to have the knowledge of good and evil, though. So it seems that eating of a particular tree had a generational result or effect.

 

[Jim B]

You CLAIM OS is true for eveyone but then make an exception for Christ. Christ would be no exception as I pointed out in an earlier post. And if you can make exceptions for Christ, then I can make exceptions for infants and those born with severe mental diabilities who are unable to understand the Bible.

Christ was without sin for He chose not to sin. Again, Adam and Eve were sinners not because they were created sinners but because they had 1) free will 2) a law given them and they used their free will to choose to sin. We today BECOME sinners following in the steps of Adam and Eve in choosing to transgress God's law.

Also, if we all inherited Adam's sin then we would all be sinners and die for the same exact sin Adam committed. Yet Paul says in Rom 5:14 "Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come." People spiritually die as a result of their OWN SINS, sins that are not like the transgression of Adam. If people die as a result of their inheriting the same sin of Adam, then there would be no distinction in sins yet Paul clearly points out a distinction between Adam's sin and the sin men commit that are different from Adam's sin. "The distinction between theirs and Adam's would be non-existent if they had died because of Adam's sin. People die because of their own sins. ( Col 2:13; Eph 2:1 )." Dunagan's Commentary

I have two legs. Birds have two legs. Therefore, according to you, I am a bird. Reductio ad absurdum.

Infants and those born with severe mental disabilities -- neither one is equivalent to Jesus Christ, who is God.

Jesus Christ had no sin nature, therefore He didn't succumb to sin. Every other person has a sin nature, since we are descended from Adam.

You're distorting the meaning by taking verse 14 out of context.

Romans 5:12-17, "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned. But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died through the one man’s trespass, much more surely have the grace of God and the gift in the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abounded for the many. And the gift is not like the effect of the one man’s sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the gift following many trespasses brings justification. If, because of the one man’s trespass, death reigned through that one, much more surely will those who receive the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man, Jesus Christ." That's plain enough, isn't it?

 

[Titus]

ALRIGHT, ALRIGHT, OK, babies are born wicked totally depraved reprobates who are already dead in Adam's sins. And the god of calvinism is sending them to hell for what Adam did. But you both, Bible Highlighter and Jim B are really good at ignoring passages that clearly point out your heretical doctrine,
Ezekiel 18:20
-The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son....

It is well known that society can be manipulated into believing something if it is said it is true over and over again. So maybe if you just keep repeating this heresy enough of those who are not grounded in the faith will be persuaded by this heresy.
btw, don't bother teaching your children to do good. They can't, they only desire to be wicked because God made them totally depraved, wicked reprobates. It is their nature, AND YOU CANNOT CHANGE IT!!! I know you do not live your real life according to this calvinist doctrine. You do encourage children to not lie, not curse, not to be selfish, To LOVE OTHERS UNCONDITIONALLY Why ? Because in reality calvinist's don't practise what they preach! I see how calvinist's live and listen to what they teach. Inconsistencies all around.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

ALRIGHT, ALRIGHT, OK, babies are born wicked totally depraved reprobates who are already dead in Adam's sins. And the god of calvinism is sending them to hell for what Adam did. But you both, Bible Highlighter and Jim B are really good at ignoring passages that clearly point out your heretical doctrine,

I am not a Calvinist. In fact, I hate Calvinism, and I disagree strongly with all five points of TULIP.
I also do not believe babies who die go to hell, either. As I have been saying they are justified freely by God’s grace. But when a baby grows up, and becomes old enough to know about sin and commits it, then they are separated from God and they need to repent and become born again spiritually.

A baby only dies physically by being in Adam.

Ezekiel 18:20
-The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son....

Deuteronomy 5:9 (AMP)
“You shall not bow down to them or serve them; for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me,”

It is well known that society can be manipulated into believing something if it is said it is true over and over again. So maybe if you just keep repeating this heresy enough of those who are not grounded in the faith will be persuaded by this heresy.
btw, don't bother teaching your children to do good. They can't, they only desire to be wicked because God made them totally depraved, wicked reprobates.

I don’t believe in Total Depravity. I believe in Partial Depravity. People have free will choice.

It is their nature, AND YOU CANNOT CHANGE IT!!! I know you do not live your real life according to this calvinist doctrine. You do encourage children to not lie, not curse, not to be selfish, To LOVE OTHERS UNCONDITIONALLY Why ? Because in reality calvinist's don't practise what they preach! I see how calvinist's live and listen to what they teach. Inconsistencies all around.

I am not a fan of Calvin. He had others murdered.

 

[Titus]

If you hate reformed theology then why teach it? There are alot of Baptist's I've taught that say they are not calvinist's. Sad, but all of these folks are confused. They really don't know what they are.

Bible Highlighter, I am going to teach you what Deuteronomy 5:9-10 is inferring.
It cannot mean what you believe it to mean. For Ezekiel 18:20 contradicts your interpretation.
btw, you are a King James onlyist correct? Why then quote from the AMP?

Deuteronomy 5:9-10
-you shall not bow down to them nor serve them, For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the inquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and forth generations of those who hate Me.

10- but showing mercy to thousands, to those who Love Me and keep My commandments.

You understand?
The sins of the parents will only bring about suffering to their future generations because of the consequence of their wickedness. The parents sins are not imputed to their future generations.

This clause: "visiting the iniquities of the fathers upon their children, upon the third and forth generation" cannot be teaching hereditary traits or hereditary depravity.

Deuteronomy 5:9-10 is also found in Exodus 20:1 ; 34:7 ; Numbers 14:18.

Remember this proverb in Isreal,
Jeremiah 31:29-30
-In those days they shall say no more: The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30 -But every one shall die for his own inquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.

The Isrealites misused this proverb by applying it to the sins of the parent would be transmitted to their children. Only the consequences of the parents sins bring about suffering for their future families.

The misapplication of this proverb is corrected in Ezekiel 18:3-4 and Ezekiel 18:20,

Ezekiel 18:2,3-4
-the fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge? As I live, says the Lord God, you shall no longer use this proverb in Isreal.
 -Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die..

Ezekiel 18:20
-The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the gulit of the father nor the father the guilt of the son...

Notice carefully Bible Highlighter,
Those children who Perpetuate the sins of their fathers will be punished NOT the children who do not practice their parents sins!!!

Now you understand you have misunderstood and contradicted Gods word.

Deuteronomy 5:9-10
-...I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those WHO HATE ME [COMMIT THEIR PARENTS SINS]
-but SHOWING MERCY TO THOUSANDS TO THOSE WHO LOVE ME AND KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

God does not impute sin or a "sin nature" from one man to the next generation!
Only those who sin are charged with their own sin. Therefore if I commit the same sins as my Dad, I will continue to be punished as my Dad was punished and if my children continue in these same transgressions then they also will be punished but not for my sins but for their own sins.
Likewise if my children choose to not follow in my wicked sins they will not be punished but will be blessed. It's that simple.

 

[Jim B]

ALRIGHT, ALRIGHT, OK, babies are born wicked totally depraved reprobates who are already dead in Adam's sins. And the god of calvinism is sending them to hell for what Adam did. But you both, Bible Highlighter and Jim B are really good at ignoring passages that clearly point out your heretical doctrine,
Ezekiel 18:20
-The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son....

It is well known that society can be manipulated into believing something if it is said it is true over and over again. So maybe if you just keep repeating this heresy enough of those who are not grounded in the faith will be persuaded by this heresy.
btw, don't bother teaching your children to do good. They can't, they only desire to be wicked because God made them totally depraved, wicked reprobates. It is their nature, AND YOU CANNOT CHANGE IT!!! I know you do not live your real life according to this calvinist doctrine. You do encourage children to not lie, not curse, not to be selfish, To LOVE OTHERS UNCONDITIONALLY Why ? Because in reality calvinist's don't practise what they preach! I see how calvinist's live and listen to what they teach. Inconsistencies all around.

It is well known that you and others can be manipulated into believing something if it is said it is true over and over again. So maybe if you just keep repeating your heresy enough of those who are not grounded in the faith will be persuaded by this heresy.

All humans are born with a sin nature, since all are descendants of Adam. That is what the Bible clearly says.

Romans 5:12, "Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man [Adam], and death came through sin, and so death spread to all because all have sinned"

1 Corinthians 15:21-22, "For since death came through a human, the resurrection of the dead has also come through a human, for as all die in Adam, so all will be made alive in Christ."

 

[Jim B]

If you hate reformed theology then why teach it? There are alot of Baptist's I've taught that say they are not calvinist's. Sad, but all of these folks are confused. They really don't know what they are.

Bible Highlighter, I am going to teach you what Deuteronomy 5:9-10 is inferring.
It cannot mean what you believe it to mean. For Ezekiel 18:20 contradicts your interpretation.
btw, you are a King James onlyist correct? Why then quote from the AMP?

Deuteronomy 5:9-10
-you shall not bow down to them nor serve them, For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the inquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and forth generations of those who hate Me.

10- but showing mercy to thousands, to those who Love Me and keep My commandments.

You understand?
The sins of the parents will only bring about suffering to their future generations because of the consequence of their wickedness. The parents sins are not imputed to their future generations.

This clause: "visiting the iniquities of the fathers upon their children, upon the third and forth generation" cannot be teaching hereditary traits or hereditary depravity.

Deuteronomy 5:9-10 is also found in Exodus 20:1 ; 34:7 ; Numbers 14:18.

Remember this proverb in Isreal,
Jeremiah 31:29-30
-In those days they shall say no more: The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge.
30 -But every one shall die for his own inquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.

The Isrealites misused this proverb by applying it to the sins of the parent would be transmitted to their children. Only the consequences of the parents sins bring about suffering for their future families.

The misapplication of this proverb is corrected in Ezekiel 18:3-4 and Ezekiel 18:20,

Ezekiel 18:2,3-4
-the fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge? As I live, says the Lord God, you shall no longer use this proverb in Isreal.
 -Behold, all souls are Mine; the soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die..

Ezekiel 18:20
-The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the gulit of the father nor the father the guilt of the son...

Notice carefully Bible Highlighter,
Those children who Perpetuate the sins of their fathers will be punished NOT the children who do not practice their parents sins!!!

Now you understand you have misunderstood and contradicted Gods word.

Deuteronomy 5:9-10
-...I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those WHO HATE ME [COMMIT THEIR PARENTS SINS]
-but SHOWING MERCY TO THOUSANDS TO THOSE WHO LOVE ME AND KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS.

God does not impute sin or a "sin nature" from one man to the next generation!
Only those who sin are charged with their own sin. Therefore if I commit the same sins as my Dad, I will continue to be punished as my Dad was punished and if my children continue in these same transgressions then they also will be punished but not for my sins but for their own sins.
Likewise if my children choose to not follow in my wicked sins they will not be punished but will be blessed. It's that simple.

Can I recommend a portion of the Bible for you to read? It's a collection of 27 "books", collectively referred to as "The New Testament". It clearly says that all humans are born with a sin nature, inherited from Adam, and therefore are destined to die as punishment for their unavoidable sins -- unless they accept Jesus' sacrifice for their sins.

 

[Titus]

Can I recommend a portion of the Bible for you to read? It's a collection of 27 "books", collectively referred to as "The New Testament". It clearly says that all humans are born with a sin nature, inherited from Adam, and therefore are destined to die as punishment for their unavoidable sins -- unless they accept Jesus' sacrifice for their sins.

OS supposedly began with Adam. Old Testament. Therefore Adam's sins must be supposedly imputed from the beginning to the last born baby until Jesus's return. Jim B, you have a poor argument here and you are intelligent enough to know better. Since Ezekiel 18:20 refuses OS, it cannot be true that OS exists in the new testament. btw, Ernest T. Bass has already proved calvinism is not taught by Paul in Romans or any other new testament book. Do you really want to hold to a doctrine that has innocent babies burning in hell because God desires it?

It has been pointed out that Jesus was tempted in all points as mankind is tempted.
Therefore it cannot be true that we have inherited sin for Jesus was born and lived sinless till death.
Jesus knows our every weakness. How? The new testament says, Jesus was tempted IN ALL POINTS AS WE ARE.

Now this Inspired passage in Hebrews 4:15 cannot be true if calvinism or Sinful nature is true.

According to calvinism Jesus had a GREAT advantage over all of mankind for He was without a depraved nature inherited from Adam.

But the Bible contradicts this false teaching by this statement of fact,
Hebrews 4:15,
-for we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses but was in ALL points tempted as we are. Yet without sin.

If Jesus did not inherit this nature to be totally depraved and did not inherit Adam's sin, then this passage is error and must be removed from the Bible.

Was Jesus tempted by a "sin nature" ? Reformed theology doctrine teaches, No.
Were all of mankind condemned sinners the moment they were born with a nature that only desires sin? Reformed theology doctrine teaches, Yes.

1) Jesus no sin no sinful nature
2) Man born sinful given a sinful nature
Conclusion:
Jesus cannot sympathize with all our weaknesses for He is not like us!!!
We are tempted at birth, Jesus was not, Therefore Jesus was not tempted in ALL points as mankind is.

Therefore either Hebrews 4:15 is God breathed or Calvinism is God breathed.
It cannot be both for OS contradicts the Old and New testaments.
I will put my faith in the God breathed word of God over 15th, 16th century reformation doctrine.
I hope you will too.

 

[Jim B]

OS supposedly began with Adam. Old Testament. Therefore Adam's sins must be supposedly imputed from the beginning to the last born baby until Jesus's return. Jim B, you have a poor argument here and you are intelligent enough to know better. Since Ezekiel 18:20 refuses OS, it cannot be true that OS exists in the new testament. btw, Ernest T. Bass has already proved calvinism is not taught by Paul in Romans or any other new testament book. Do you really want to hold to a doctrine that has innocent babies burning in hell because God desires it?

It has been pointed out that Jesus was tempted in all points as mankind is tempted.
Therefore it cannot be true that we have inherited sin for Jesus was born and lived sinless till death.
Jesus knows our every weakness. How? The new testament says, Jesus was tempted IN ALL POINTS AS WE ARE.

Now this Inspired passage in Hebrews 4:15 cannot be true if calvinism or Sinful nature is true.

According to calvinism Jesus had a GREAT advantage over all of mankind for He was without a depraved nature inherited from Adam.

But the Bible contradicts this false teaching by this statement of fact,
Hebrews 4:15,
-for we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses but was in ALL points tempted as we are. Yet without sin.

If Jesus did not inherit this nature to be totally depraved and did not inherit Adam's sin, then this passage is error and must be removed from the Bible.

Was Jesus tempted by a "sin nature" ? Reformed theology doctrine teaches, No.
Were all of mankind condemned sinners the moment they were born with a nature that only desires sin? Reformed theology doctrine teaches, Yes.

1) Jesus no sin no sinful nature
2) Man born sinful given a sinful nature
Conclusion:
Jesus cannot sympathize with all our weaknesses for He is not like us!!!
We are tempted at birth, Jesus was not, Therefore Jesus was not tempted in ALL points as mankind is.

Therefore either Hebrews 4:15 is God breathed or Calvinism is God breathed.
It cannot be both for OS contradicts the Old and New testaments.
I will put my faith in the God breathed word of God over 15th, 16th century reformation doctrine.
I hope you will too.

Hebrews 4:15, "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who in every respect has been tested as we are, yet without sin." NRSVue

"For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin."

You: "Therefore Jesus was not tempted in ALL points as mankind is."

Whom should I believe? The writer of Hebrews or you?

 

[Titus]

Hebrews 4:15, "For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who in every respect has been tested as we are, yet without sin." NRSVue

"For we do not have a high priest who is unable to empathize with our weaknesses, but we have one who has been tempted in every way, just as we are—yet he did not sin."

You: "Therefore Jesus was not tempted in ALL points as mankind is."

Whom should I believe? The writer of Hebrews or you?

? Now your going to misrepresent me. Jim B, I'm disappointed in you.

 

[Jim B]

? Now your going to misrepresent me. Jim B, I'm disappointed in you.

If I misrepresented you, I apologize.