The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.
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Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
Well actually I have studied quite a few greek scholars. I would assume you however have not studied the word yet if you still ask.
even in the Bible baptizo does not always mean sprinkle of dip in water, bt that means nothing to far to many people
The word baptism is a transliteration. Verses that teach on baptism literally mean immersion. The Greek word in these verses 1Corinthians 12:13; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38 ; Acts 22:16; Colossians 2:12 is baptizo. When King James had assembled Hebrew and Greek scholars to copy the manuscript, textus receptus, into what is known today as the King James Bible. There were already established beliefs and practices in the Anglican church. Roman catholism had already begun practicing sprinkling and pouring for baptism. Because of this, the translators of the King James Bible did not want the verses on baptism TO SAY WHAT IT LITERALLY WAS i.e. IMMERSION. Therefore to hide what baptism i.e. immersion is they did not translate the Greek word baptizo into the English word immersion. Instead they created a word through transliteration, So, baptizo i.e. immersion became the transliterated word baptism. My point is Eternally Grateful, that you just said quote: "baptizo does not always mean sprinkle".
Is wrong ,entirely wrong.
The Greek word baptizo means immersion NOT sprinkle or pour. So, no I am not ignorant of the meaning of baptizo but apparently you still are.
Now, you should have done what I asked you to do many months ago and wrote to Greek scholars to find out what KIND of baptism is baptizo. If you had you would have learned that the verses that use the word baptizo only refer to water immersion and never Holy Spirit baptism.
Is wrong ,entirely wrong.
The Greek word baptizo means immersion NOT sprinkle or pour. So, no I am not ignorant of the meaning of baptizo but apparently you still are.
Now, you should have done what I asked you to do many months ago and wrote to Greek scholars to find out what KIND of baptism is baptizo. If you had you would have learned that the verses that use the word baptizo only refer to water immersion and never Holy Spirit baptism.
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Technically speaking, you are correct--- if Unbelief is a sin , it is a sin that must be eliminated....but I think you know what I am really talking about....many people think that if they " repent of their sins " which they mean as " stop sinning" --- THAT is the way to get themselves saved.... They think that if they obey all the commandments, or live a " good " life, or " turn over a new leaf", they have made themselves Worthy of Eternal Life...that is Satan's Big Lie.....we can never " clean ourselves up " and ever hope to "Become " Worthy on our own---- we are "MADE" WORTHY by our Faith in the Blood of the Lamb--- That plus NOTHING for Salvation....
" By the works of the Law, NO man will be Justified"
" The Righteous by Faith shall live"
How is faith defined in Hebrews 11?
What works of the Law is Paul referring to in Romans 3:20?
Have you noticed the topic Paul mentions is the problem of those who thought they had to be circumcised to be saved (Which is of the Old Law) (See: Romans 2:25-29, Romans 3:1, Romans 4:9-12, and then see Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, Acts 15:24, and Galatians 5:2).
Also, does Romans 3 sounds like it is referring to how we first get saved or does it sound like one’s continued salvation?
What do you make of 1 Timothy 6:12?
Granted, I am not really expecting you to dive deep into these verses. But I am encouraging our readers who are good Bereans to do their own homework over what popular Christianity teaches today.
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Hello again and thanks for responding.
Good, I'm glad I'm speaking to an honest person.
Yes, unbelief is a sin therefore repentance is repenting of the sin of unbelief by changing ones mind to believing/Faith in Christ.
Bible Highlighter made the most important observation on the discussion of faith, that is faith MUST be defined according to the scriptures. Most modern day theology is not theology but philosophy.
The result is, folks are teaching there think so's on what faith is, rather than letting the Bible define what Saving Faith is.
Back to repentance: You define repentance in salvation as only changing the mind from unbelief to belief, faith.
I'm thankful that you have changed your definition of repentance in salvation to include repenting of the sin of unbelief. We both now agree repentance is repenting of sin to receive Gods grace.
As you said here, quote: "Technically speaking you are correct--- If Unbelief is a sin, it is a sin that must be eliminated..."
Since it is gospel truth one must repent of sin in salvation, there is nothing scripturally wrong with the doctrine of repentance of sins to be saved. Unfortunately folks will hold to unscriptual doctrines that they are already wedded to because their church teaches them, rather than admit the new doctrine of no repentance of sins in salvation contradicts the gospel command to repent of the sin of unbelief.
If my beliefs in religion or any other area in life cannot hold up to scrutiny, it has proven itself unworthy of putting my FULL trust in it. Therefore the honest will disregard it and search for the truth.
Here is the main reason no repentance of sins to be saved doctrine has become popular,
It is because those who hold to Faith only salvation realize that repenting of sins is something we must do, therefore this contradicts the doctrine of faith only no works salvation.
Yet, this doctrine cannot escape the fact that if one does not repent of their sin of unbelief there is no possibility of God saving them. To be blunt, this definition of repentance: "unbelief to belief meaning repentance is nothing but faith in Jesus" is junk hermeneutics.
Now you also said about getting oneself saved,
Quote from Gospel Believer: "They think that if they obey all the commandments or live a "good" life, or "turn over a new leaf", they have made themselves Worthy of Eternal life..."
So, it stands to reason that your belief is, keeping Gods commandments at least all of them is NOT required by God to be saved by Him.
Then my conclusion must be to your teaching on Jesus' gospel of salvation is obedience to Gods direct commandments are non-essential to my salvation.
Your salvation gospel formula is therefore salvation through disobedience of Gods commandments.
Not salvation through obeying all of Gods commandments.
If God does not require us to obey Him by doing His commandments to be saved, then how do you explain Faith in salvation?
This brings us to another inconsistently, another contradiction in faith only and no obedience to Gods commandments for salvation gospel that you hold to.
Are you aware that Faith is a direct commandment that we must obey?
So, you are teaching that some commandments are essential to ones salvation yet others are not.
This is an inconsistency.
Which commandments must I do to be saved? Which ones can I disobey?
Faith only salvation teaches no obedience to any commandments yet contradicts that Faith in Jesus
is obedience to His commandment.
1John 3:23-24,
-And this is Gods commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.
It is an impossibility to not obey Gods commandments and be saved friend.
One must obey the commandment to believe in Jesus.
Faith only salvation is contradictory. When a theology contradicts itself,
It cannot be Biblically sound!!! Therefore must be rejected as misinformation from men.
Can I disobey the commandment to believe and be saved? 1John 3:23-24.
Can I disobey the commandment to repent and be saved? Acts 17:30-31
Can I disobey the commandment to confess my faith in Jesus?, Romans 10:9-10
Can I disobey the commandment to be baptized and be saved, Mark 16:15-16?
Please explain your teaching that one thinks "they have to obey all the commandments" to be saved.
You do hopefully realize that we MUST obey God to be saved. And if you believe no commandment keeping to be saved is the true gospel of Jesus Christ then explain why you teach faith in salvation?
Also, if you believe only some of Gods commandments must be obeyed to be saved then please explain which ones and why others can be disobeyed?
Note: I do not believe God requires perfection in obedience to Gods commandments.However,
It only makes rational sense that His commandments can be obeyed otherwise God commanding us to obey His commandments is unfair. God is demanding we keep them at the same time knowing it is impossible, beyond our ability. This makes God unfair/unjust. What do you think?
All these questions !!!......I don’t know how you expect me to get any Christmas Shopping done if I have to stay stuck here at my keyboard answering all of these inquiries of yours !l lol.....please , can you Narrow this down to one or two questions at a time? You are all over the map here and may God forgive me, I am a very lazy man— retirement has ruined me—— lol.....
Please.....one question at a time....thanks.....it’s hard work getting some of you guys straightened out....lol...
Take your time. My questions are not going anywhere. But please answer with Scripture if you find the time this year.
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What One Question do you want me to address ? I live to serve.....lol....
I asked multiple questions in post #1305.
However long it takes, please try to answer those questions using Scripture and not worldly wisdom.
I am too bored to answer the same questions that I have been answering for years in various Christian Sites....one at a time or nothing....I have an actual life away from these Forums
We are told to preach the Word in season and out of season. A Christian should naturally feel the desire in wanting to explain God’s Word if they have studied to show themselves approved unto God. They would consider discussing God’s Word a joy and a passion and not as if it leads to boredom. This is the problem we are at in Christianity today. Jesus says, “If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;” (John 8:31). Jesus warns others who do not have His Word abiding in them by saying, “And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.” So disciples can believe up until a point and then stop believing God’s Word or they stop in continuing to abide in His Word (by keep putting the Word of God back into their hearts and minds). When one becomes cold or bored to discuss God’s Word it is a greater problem than one even realizes. One needs to be born again by water. The Word of God needs to become alive to them whereby that’s all they want to talk about it and live and breath. For Jesus said, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.” (Matthew 4:4).
A typical cheap shot in an attempt to malign a dedicated Grace Believer that has spent years and written thousands of posts fighting to uphold the Truth Of The True Gospel Message.....I love God and His Word and Especially His Promises to all of those that Trust Him—— I never get tired of, and I never get bored trying to lead people to Salvation and the Assurance Of their Salvation.....what really makes me weary is having to argue against those that are always presenting different versions of the same old tired variations of , “ Yeah, sure..... Jesus Saves— BUT! “ .......it’s everything on the other side of that word, “ But”, That bores me......it’s the same boredom that would accompany one trying to argue for the thousandth time that the Earth is not flat....the typical reader here is smart enough to see through your false, easy- to- make charge......aim a little higher with your personal insults...
I did not write the Bible. God did. So if you have a problem with the verses I presented, then you have a problem with God and not me, or my belief. I believe you are bored not because you know it is a losing battle to fight against what God’s Word plainly says. You are comfortable with taking those small few verses out of context.
After we are saved by God's grace,
God’s works (done through us) are also required as a part of the Salvation Process:
(Here are a List of Verses):
#1. “Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." (James 2:24).
#2. "Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.” (James 2:17-18).
#3. "They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate." (Titus 1:16).
#4. "If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing," (1 Timothy 6:3-4).
Supplemental verse:
"...God resisteth the proud, but giveth grace unto the humble." (James 4:6).
#5. "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).
#6. "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14).
#7. “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth” (2 Thessalonians 2:13).
Supplemental verses:
(a) “That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.” (2 Thessalonians 2:12).
(b) “...and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, Comfort your hearts, and establish you in every good word and work.” (2 Thessalonians 2:16-17).
#8. “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.” (Romans 8:1).
Supplemental verse:
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.” (Romans 8:13).
Supplemental verses:
(a) "If ye love me, keep my commandments." (John 14:15).
(b) “If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.” (John 15:10).
#11. “...if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.” (Matthew 19:17-19).
#12. "And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me." (Matthew 10:38). ”If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me. For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it. For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? (Matthew 16:24-26).
#13. "...No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God." (Luke 9:62) (cf. Luke 8:11-15, 1 Corinthians 4:15).
#14. "But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile: For there is no respect of persons with God." (Romans 2:8-11).
Supplemental verses:
(a) "Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls." (James 1:21).
(b) “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him.” (James 1:12).
(c) "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved." (John 3:20).
#15. “And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.” (John 5:29).
#16. ”And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.” (Revelation 22:12-15).
Since it is gospel truth one must repent of sin in salvation, there is nothing scripturally wrong with the doctrine of repentance of sins to be saved
Nope.....we don’t “ repent of sin” to be Saved ......you could say that we Repent Of * ONE* Sin to be Saved—— the Sin Of UNBELIEF......
Any man who does “NOT” Believe in the Sacrificial Blood Of Jesus to Save Him and then undergoes a Change Of Mind That leads him to actually “ BELIEVE” in the Shed Blood Jesus to pay for his Sins, has done all the Repenting he ever NEED do to become Saved and to stay Saved......The Greek Word “ Metanoia” That is translated as “ Repentance” literally means “ mind change” and THAT is the type of Repentance that God demands for Salvation......
When it comes to Salvation we don’t turn “FROM” Sin......We Turn “ TO” God , with Faith in Jesus Christ .....Romans 3:22....” Righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who Believe”...... “ Turn to Me and I will Turn to you”.......” You refuse to COME TO ME so that you would have Eternal Life “ John 5:20
Nope.....we don’t “ repent of sin” to be Saved ......you could say that we Repent Of * ONE* Sin to be Saved—— the Sin Of UNBELIEF......
Any man who does “NOT” Believe in the Sacrificial Blood Of Jesus to Save Him and then undergoes a Change Of Mind That leads him to actually “ BELIEVE” in the Shed Blood Jesus to pay for his Sins, has done all the Repenting he ever NEED do to become Saved and to stay Saved......The Greek Word “ Metanoia” That is translated as “ Repentance” literally means “ mind change” and THAT is the type of Repentance that God demands for Salvation......
When it comes to Salvation we don’t turn “FROM” Sin......We Turn “ TO” God , with Faith in Jesus Christ .....Romans 3:22....” Righteousness is given through faith in Jesus Christ to all who Believe”...... “ Turn to Me and I will Turn to you”.......” You refuse to COME TO ME so that you would have Eternal Life “ John 5:20
That’s a lovely Scripture Wall you have there that nobody will read in its entirety.....I just happen to have a verse or two that takes care of them all .....
Romans 10:13 ... “ Anybody that ASKS to be Saved WILL BE Saved”
1 Cor 1:8..... It is * HE* that will KEEP YOU STRONG until the very end—- WITHOUT BLAME on the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ”
It would appear that once I do God’s Will , which according to Jesus is to “ Believe on the One that He Sent” , the Onus or Responsibility for Salvation is on Gods shoulders—- not mine. Faith Plus Nothing Saves. Faith is Believing and Acting on the Promises Of God......that is what I do.....kinda like Abraham..... “ Abraham Believed God and it was counted unto him as Righteousness”.....Because Of my Trust in the Promises Of God concerning the Shed Blood Of His Son, God sees me as being as Perfect as His Son —- it’s an ‘ Imputed” Righteousness......I recommend that you get you some......
The Apostle Paul taught us to be bold in our testimony of the gospel. 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
The Power of God ----
The
Power
of God
unto salvation
======= Looking unto the Gospel of Christ by hearing the word, and you decide what you believe accordingly between
you
God
and
the spirit.
The
Power
of God
unto salvation
======= Looking unto the Gospel of Christ by hearing the word, and you decide what you believe accordingly between
you
God
and
the spirit.
You mean believers like you will not read them because you don’t like what they say.
The Scriptures will be fulfilled and there will be righteous and faithful believers to the LORD Jesus who will enter the Kingdom.
Again, the problem is that you are not dealing with what the Bible says. You can call it a wall of Scripture all you like, but if we as believers do not receive the words of Jesus, those words will judge us on the last day (John 12:48).
That’s poor Hermeneutics.
You cannot say that certain verses just takes care of the others as if to suggest that these other verses are no longer valid.
That is a past tense one time event in being saved.
A person can be saved from a burning building in the past (Which is a one time event), but that does not mean they can later at another point in time not be saved (like say, they drowned in stormy waters before the coast guard could reach them).
My Bible says this for 1 Corinthians 1:8.
“Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Corinthians 1:8).
Did you notice the word “may” in there. That you MAY be blameless. May is not a guarantee.
This is why you are to work out your salvation with fear and trembling (Philippians 2:12).
God is not going to be faithful for you.
1 Timothy 6:12 says fight the good fight of faith and lay hold on eternal life.
But you don’t believe that verse.
You think other easy Believism type verses undoes them (When that’s not the case).
Both sets of verses are true in what they say.
We must believe AND be faithful to make it into God’s Kingdom.
It’s why the Bible says for you to CONTINUE in the faith.
CONTINUE in God’s grace.
CONTINUE in His goodness.
KEEP yourself in the love of God.
So faithfulness it’s not an automatic thing as you suggest.
You are in grave error. Jesus says that everyone who does not do what He says is like a fool who built their house upon the sand and when a storm came, great was the fall of that house (See: Matthew 7:26-27).
It is true that Abraham needed to believe God in regards to the promise. The point was belief. We as Christians need to believe, as well.
Paul made this as a point of how we first need to be saved initially by God’s grace through faith (Which is a process of salvation without works). But after we are saved by God’s grace initially, we know that His grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). Grace gives us the ability to do the work (1 Corinthians 15:10). You can even fall from grace (See: Galatians 5:4).
While believers need to have faith in His blood (Romans 3:25), they also need to walk in the light as He is in the light… so that the blood of Jesus will cleanse them from all sin, too (See: 1 John 1:7). This walking in the light = Loving your brother according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11. So it’s not just believing alone that will save you. Even the demons believe and tremble.
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