If the second coming happens before the thousand years?

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Marty fox

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Revelation 19:17-18
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

If this was before the thousand years then who would be around for it if the flesh of all people were eaten by the birds?
 

Randy Kluth

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Revelation 19:17-18
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

If this was before the thousand years then who would be around for it if the flesh of all people were eaten by the birds?
It doesn't seem comprehensive enough to determine that "all flesh" refers exhaustively to all of humanity. For example, it wouldn't include the saints. It likely refers to all kinds of people that are included in those who have embraced the Antichrist, or who participated in the Battle of Armageddon. I'm not sure how you specifically quality the word "all?" For example, does the context indicate this is "all" involved in the war, "all" among the players at Armageddon, etc.?

But if all of humanity disintegrated at the 2nd Coming, who would be there to witness this event? The Scriptures say that people will weep when they see Christ return. Or do you view this differently?
 

ewq1938

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If this was before the thousand years then who would be around for it if the flesh of all people were eaten by the birds?


Everyone not there at Armageddon. Armageddon is a small place 66 miles from Jerusalem. All of an army will be killed there not everyone globally. Verse 15 promises a rule over the nations past the battle there.


Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them (future tense verb) with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
 

jeffweeder

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It doesn't seem comprehensive enough to determine that "all flesh" refers exhaustively to all of humanity. For example, it wouldn't include the saints. It likely refers to all kinds of people that are included in those who have embraced the Antichrist, or who participated in the Battle of Armageddon.
Of course, not the saints.
Those who participate in embracing the mark/beast /antichrist are all those who from the foundation of the world do not have their names in the Book of Life.

That is comprehensive of all the living and all the dead when the book of life is actually opened at the GWT.


“The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.


Rev 14
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”



And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
 

Marty fox

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Everyone not there at Armageddon. Armageddon is a small place 66 miles from Jerusalem. All of an army will be killed there not everyone globally. Verse 15 promises a rule over the nations past the battle there.


Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them (future tense verb) with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

But revelation 19 doesn’t mention Armagedon The verse says all flesh so it’s all flesh it doesn’t include the saints because
Everyone not there at Armageddon. Armageddon is a small place 66 miles from Jerusalem. All of an army will be killed there not everyone globally. Verse 15 promises a rule over the nations past the battle there.


Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them (future tense verb) with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
 

Marty fox

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It doesn't seem comprehensive enough to determine that "all flesh" refers exhaustively to all of humanity. For example, it wouldn't include the saints. It likely refers to all kinds of people that are included in those who have embraced the Antichrist, or who participated in the Battle of Armageddon. I'm not sure how you specifically quality the word "all?" For example, does the context indicate this is "all" involved in the war, "all" among the players at Armageddon, etc.?

But if all of humanity disintegrated at the 2nd Coming, who would be there to witness this event? The Scriptures say that people will weep when they see Christ return. Or do you view this differently?
I’m not sure which scripture you mean about the weeping but see post #5
 

ewq1938

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But revelation 19 doesn’t mention Armagedon

A different verse/chp mentions the armies being gathered there.

The verse says all flesh so it’s all flesh

Yes, all the flesh there. I have already shown you that the same chp promises a rule over the nations after the battle is over which means your belief that all flesh means all flesh globally is wrong.
 

Randy Kluth

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I’m not sure which scripture you mean about the weeping but see post #5
You don't think Rev 19 refers to Armageddon in Rev 16? The Scripture I was talking about was this...

Rev 1.“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”

Zech 12.10 They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

2
things are said to happen here, which seems to be the Coming of Christ.
1) All eyes will see it.
2) The same will mourn.

Then it says this will happen, which obviously will *not* be in heaven...

Zech 13.1 “On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity.
2 “On that day, I will banish the names of the idols from the land, and they will be remembered no more,” declares the Lord Almighty. “I will remove both the prophets and the spirit of impurity from the land."


But Rev 16, where Armageddon is mentioned, related to Rev 19, where Christ's Coming is depicted? I think so.
The description of Armageddon in Rev 16 can only be the last battle of the age, at which time Christ returns....

Rev 16.15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”
16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “It is done!”


These things depict the very event at which time Christ returns.
1) Christ comes as a thief at Armageddon.
2) The age is "done" at Armageddon.

The same thing is described in Rev 19. Christ comes again...

Rev 19.11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war...19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army.
 

Randy Kluth

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Of course, not the saints.
Those who participate in embracing the mark/beast /antichrist are all those who from the foundation of the world do not have their names in the Book of Life.

That is comprehensive of all the living and all the dead when the book of life is actually opened at the GWT.


“The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come.


Rev 14
9 Then another angel, a third one, followed them, saying with a loud voice, “If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb.
11 And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever; they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.”



And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
The Bible regularly makes sweeping statements that are naturally qualified by the context. There is little effort to explain what would be logically inferred, that "all are judged" refers to the event being described.

When "all of Babylon" was judged, it would not necessarily need to describe it was Babylon that was being judged again and again, when the context demands it. When "every person" witnessing this battle is described, there is no need to qualify the fact it refers to those who are attending the event.

The idea that the word "all" refers to the entire globe of people exhaustively is never the thought in the biblical Prophets, unless it is spelled out in a global context. For example, the idea that all men became sinners through Adam is understood in the context of human reproduction, since all men are descended from Adam and must obtain a Sin Nature from Adam.

But in describing universal judgment, the context can refer to a single nation, to a single battle, or to some limiting elements that falls well short of an exhaustive "human race" application. This has been argued many times in my experience. "Everybody" knows that--well, at least those who agree with me. ;)--just kidding.
 

Charlie24

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Revelation 19:17-18
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

If this was before the thousand years then who would be around for it if the flesh of all people were eaten by the birds?

If you want a better understanding of this, read Ezekiel 38 and 39. It is the battle of Armageddon in graphic detail. Concerning the great supper of God for the fowls of the air,

Ezek. 39:17-20

"And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord God; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord God."
 

Marty fox

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If you want a better understanding of this, read Ezekiel 38 and 39. It is the battle of Armageddon in graphic detail. Concerning the great supper of God for the fowls of the air,

Ezek. 39:17-20

"And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord God; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, even a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood.

Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan.

And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you.

Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord God."
Thanks But you didn’t answer the question?
 

Charlie24

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Thanks But you didn’t answer the question?

In chapter 39, where I quoted, it says, "all men of war." That should tell us the destruction comes to these men of war.

Who are they? The armies of Gog, the anti-christ.
 

Marty fox

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You don't think Rev 19 refers to Armageddon in Rev 16? The Scripture I was talking about was this...

Rev 1.“Look, he is coming with the clouds,”
and “every eye will see him,
even those who pierced him”;
and all peoples on earth “will mourn because of him.”

Zech 12.10 They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son.

2
things are said to happen here, which seems to be the Coming of Christ.
1) All eyes will see it.
2) The same will mourn.

Then it says this will happen, which obviously will *not* be in heaven...

Zech 13.1 “On that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, to cleanse them from sin and impurity.
2 “On that day, I will banish the names of the idols from the land, and they will be remembered no more,” declares the Lord Almighty. “I will remove both the prophets and the spirit of impurity from the land."


But Rev 16, where Armageddon is mentioned, related to Rev 19, where Christ's Coming is depicted? I think so.
The description of Armageddon in Rev 16 can only be the last battle of the age, at which time Christ returns....

Rev 16.15 “Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed.”
16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.
17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, “It is done!”


These things depict the very event at which time Christ returns.
1) Christ comes as a thief at Armageddon.
2) The age is "done" at Armageddon.

The same thing is described in Rev 19. Christ comes again...

Rev 19.11 I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and wages war...19 Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army.

No revelation 19 isn’t Armageddon as Armageddon is in revelation 16.

Revelation 16 is the defeat of Babylon the great by the beast revelation 19 is the defeat of the beast by Jesus.

Armageddon was the time of the weeping as Jesus came in judgment and destroyed Jerusalem (Babylon the great) in 70AD as Jesus used the beast Rome to defeat her.
 

Marty fox

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In chapter 39, where I quoted, it says, "all men of war." That should tell us the destruction comes to these men of war.

Who are they? The armies of Gog, the anti-christ.
But the question is if all flesh are eaten by the birds who is left for the thousand years?
 

Charlie24

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But the question is if all flesh are eaten by the birds who is left for the thousand years?

One third of Israel will be left according to Zechariah, plus no doubt millions of Gentiles from the nations.

The first order of business for Christ at His return is separating the nations that supported Israel and those who did not.

There will be millions on earth at this time, who were not killed during the GT.
 

Marty fox

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One third of Israel will be left according to Zechariah, plus no doubt millions of Gentiles from the nations.

The first order of business for Christ at His return is separating the nations that supported Israel and those who did not.

There will be millions on earth at this time, who were not killed during the GT.
But the scripture says all flesh free and slave great and small. Thus Jesus comes after the thousand years we are in the thousand years now.

Let the scriptures interpret the scriptures your other scriptures are talking about other times
 

Charlie24

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But the scripture says all flesh free and slave great and small. Thus Jesus comes after the thousand years we are in the thousand years now.

Let the scriptures interpret the scriptures your other scriptures are talking about other times

This thread should have been placed in the Prophecy Forum. Personally, I don't go there.

What I believe in Prophecy, I keep to myself, not going to argue this stuff, waste of time for me.
 

ewq1938

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No revelation 19 isn’t Armageddon as Armageddon is in revelation 16.


Armageddon is mentioned in Rev 16, it is not "in" the chp as in the battle taking place there. Armageddon is happening in Rev 19, obviously.
 

ewq1938

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But the question is if all flesh are eaten by the birds who is left for the thousand years?


This question has been answered. Marty is ignoring the answers.
 

Marty fox

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This thread should have been placed in the Prophecy Forum. Personally, I don't go there.

What I believe in Prophecy, I keep to myself, not going to argue this stuff, waste of time for me.
All I am asking for is an answer to my question You then quoted other scriptures without answering my question.