If the second coming happens before the thousand years?

[ewq1938]

But chapter 16 states that Babylon is destroyed and chapter 17 shows who does it. That doesn’t happen in chapter 19 the beast and false prophet are destroyed in chapter 19 how can you not see that it’s clear in the scriptures?

The only part of chp 16 we are talking about is the 6th vial where armies are gathered at Arm for the great battle and that battle is described in Rev 19.

 

[ewq1938]

Yes they people of Israel weeped when Jesus came in judgement when Rome destroyed her for Gods purpose.

There was no coming by Christ in 70AD. There is only one coming to happen since his first coming, and it hasn't happened yet.

 

[Marty fox]

The only part of chp 16 we are talking about is the 6th vial where armies are gathered at Arm for the great battle and that battle is described in Rev 19.

Why would you think that? I have been talking about the rest of chapter 16 the whole time which applies and shows the difference between both chapters.

 

[ewq1938]

Why would you think that? I have been talking about the rest of chapter 16 the whole time which applies and shows the difference between both chapters.

The discussion you and I are having is about Armageddon, not anything else. You think the battle of Arm happens in chp 16 but you are wrong.

 

[Marty fox]

There was no coming by Christ in 70AD. There is only one coming to happen since his first coming, and it hasn't happened yet.

Jesus has come in judgement many times for example

Rev 2:16
16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

This threat happened if they didn't repent. Notice that Jesus even used the same description of His coming as chapter 19 with the sword of His mouth to fight against them? So is the coming in chapter 19 literal?

 

[Marty fox]

The discussion you and I are having is about Armageddon, not anything else. You think the battle of Arm happens in chp 16 but you are wrong.

I proved with the scriptures that they are not the same battle. I proved through scripture they have different combatants and different outcomes. All you have said is that I’m wrong

The only way to prove and clarify it is with straight simply questions so please answer these questions with a plain yes or no

Does chapter 16 show Babylon the great destroyed?

Does chapter 16 show the beast and the false prophet destroyed?

Does chapter 17 show who destroys Babylon the great?

Does chapter 19 show the babylon the great destroyed?

Does chapter 19 show the beast and the false prophet destroyed?

Does chapter 19 show who destroys the beast and the false prophet?

Does chapter 16 mention Armageddon?

Does chapter 19 mention Armageddon?

 

[ewq1938]

Jesus has come in judgement many times for example

Rev 2:16
16 Repent therefore! Otherwise, I will soon come to you and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

This threat happened if they didn't repent. Notice that Jesus even used the same description of His coming as chapter 19 with the sword of His mouth to fight against them? So is the coming in chapter 19 literal?

Yes, with some symbolism but there will be a battle at Armageddon and the literal armies of the beast will be slain.

 

[ewq1938]

Does chapter 16 show Babylon the great destroyed?

Irrelevant since we are only talking about Armageddon not Babylon.

Does chapter 16 show the beast and the false prophet destroyed?

No, it also doesn't show Darth Vader or Winnie the Pooh. The beast and FP are cast into the LOF at the end of the battle not before the battle!



I'm ignoring the rest of questions since the first ones are so badly composed.

 

[Trekson]

Revelation 19:17-18
17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18 so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”

If this was before the thousand years then who would be around for it if the flesh of all people were eaten by the birds?

They are those who were killed by Christ at Armageddon.

 

[Truth7t7]

Nope. No battle in 16, the battle is in 19, 20

Of course the world is seen at the "Battle" of Armageddon before your eyes below, this is the very reason your postings aren't taken seriously

Jesus Is The Lord

Revelation 16:14-17KJV
14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
16 And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

 

[Truth7t7]

I think you are misleading others about what I'm saying. I'm not saying that the apocalyptic events are purely taking place in a single place. I'm saying they take place in *many local places* and have a universal impact.

By contrast, you're saying that the universe ceases to exist when Jesus comes back because somewhere the language suggests that ":all flesh die." You need to understand things that are said by including the context for those statements.

Jesus returns in fire and final judgment, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

There won't be a mortal Millennial Kingdom on this earth at the return of Jesus Christ, as you falsely believe and teach

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[Timtofly]

First chapter 16 states that Babylon the great is destroyed and chapter 17 shows who does it. That doesn’t happen in chapter 19 the beast and false prophet are destroyed in chapter 19.

Second if all flesh is killed and eaten by the birds then who is left to live through the thousand years if the thousand years happens after chapter 19

You are thinking of the 7th vial.

The 6th vial gathers all humanity to Armageddon to fight the Lamb.

The city does not move. Human armies move.

Once again in Revelation 17:12-14

"And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful."

These armies gather to fight the Lamb.

These kings don't attack Babylon. They watch her burn to the ground.

"And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come."

Satan's empire comes crashing down. Those kings still have to fight the Lamb. Where else, but in Revelation 19 is this battle? Is Jesus not the Lamb they fight?


"And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."

Their empire was destroyed, and now Satan, the FP, and the beast with nothing left, come with what is left of humanity to Armageddon.

Of course no more humans are left alive. The sheep and the wheat are part of the Lamb's army, who now are given the earth as their inheritance. They have been waiting on the sea of glass in Revelation 15, until the 42 months were over. They are the remnant of all mankind who like Noah, after the Flood populate the earth, after the cleansing fire of the Second Coming. They are the final harvest gathered before Satan even sets up His AoD on earth for 42 months.

No one is saved post Revelation 13. They are gathered before the AoD even starts. Those who choose God in this 42 months are those beheaded people who are now physically dead. That is what happens when your head is chopped off. You physically die. That is not metaphor or symbolism. They literally are beheaded. They are resurrected and given permanent incorruptible physical bodies to live on earth for 1,000 years. They are not the church glorified. If that were the case they would have been raptured at the Second Coming, the 6th Seal back in Revelation 6.

Amil conflate a literal physical beheading and resurrection with the second birth via the Holy Spirit. They are so adamant that there cannot be a future 1,000 year reign of Christ, they cannot even get a physical beheading and physical resurrection correct in their interpretation of Scripture.

Revelation 19 is not the Second Coming. It is to destroy humanity that was given a 42 month extension to choose God, thus have a chance to chop off their heads to make that choice. No one makes it to the end alive. They are all dead. Those who remain in the Lamb's book of life chopped their heads off. The rest were killed at Armageddon in Revelation 19.

There is a physical resurrection in Revelation 20:4. That is how those beheaded enter the Millennium. They are physically given a permanent incorruptible physical body. They reign with Christ on earth. They are saved as a firebrand snatched out of the fire. But certainly are not given the same reward and life as the glorified church.

If Amil deny all these points, they work themselves into an impossible situation. Even people who claim Revelation 19 is the Second Coming, are forced into making up explanations, instead of just normal interpretation of Scripture. Revelation 15:2 explains where the redeemed are during these last 42 months when Satan is in charge on the earth.

"And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God."

Is there a strong argument these are not who comes back with Jesus in Revelation 19?

"And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean."

Does not an army occupy the land they take back from the enemy?

 

[Randy Kluth]

Jesus returns in fire and final judgment, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

There won't be a mortal Millennial Kingdom on this earth at the return of Jesus Christ, as you falsely believe and teach

Jesus Is The Lord

Regularly affirming your disagreement is not an argument. But that's your style. The matter concerned the *language* and its meaning. Universal statements are made *all the time* without meaning unlimited, exhaustive declarations such as you claim. But you fail to recognize this. Well obviously you can't, because it's a fact. "Everybody" knows this. That includes the little worm in the ground on the other side of the planet.

 

[Scott Downey]

But the scripture says all flesh free and slave great and small. Thus Jesus comes after the thousand years we are in the thousand years now.

Let the scriptures interpret the scriptures your other scriptures are talking about other times

No we can not be in the thousand years now, when did the thousand years start?
Who is left to be alive during the thousand years?
All the people who return with Christ, all the people who are alive on earth are caught up in the air to meet Christ as He returns, then all the saved are there with Him and He comes down and destroys all the unbelievers and their armies.
And we inherit the earth for a thousand years, all believers at this point have been resurrected.
Then afterwards, the final judgement, God makes us new heavens and a new earth.

In Jude, that number is not literal, it is just a very large number of people who come back with Christ, all the saints who died in the lord up until that time.

14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

 

[Randy Kluth]

Yes they people of Israel weeped when Jesus came in judgement when Rome destroyed her for Gods purpose.

They weeped because they would of realized who Jesus was when His prophecy happened when He said that it would happen proving that He was their God and messiah

I really have trouble understanding your time line. Let me reiterate what I think you're saying, and you can correct me? The battle of Armageddon *precedes* the 2nd Coming, and involves the Antichrist's gathering of Babylon to destroy her? And it is *at that time* that the nations mourn--not because Christ is coming back, but only because they come to realize that Jesus is Messiah *before he returns?* They are mourning because they see the needless state of trouble in the world caused by their failure to accept him as Messiah?

 

[Scott Downey]

So when do the meek get to inherit the earth?? This has not happened yet.
If you want to know when it is after the antichrist figure is destroyed at the second appearing of Christ.
Daniel 7 describes this in detail as does Revelation, you should read the whole chapter of Daniel 7 and this is going to occur in the future.

Here is where the meek inherit THIS earth. It must be this one as this is how the scripture is written, regarding the kingdoms of this world.
And obviously has not yet happened yet.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.

Matthew 5
1 And seeing the multitudes, He went up on a mountain, and when He was seated His disciples came to Him. 2 Then He opened His mouth and taught them, saying:

3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
For they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek,
For they shall inherit the [a]earth.
6 Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
For they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
For they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
For they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
For they shall be called sons of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness’ sake,
For theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Daniel 7
19 “Then I wished to know the truth about the fourth beast, which was different from all the others, exceedingly dreadful, with its teeth of iron and its nails of bronze, which devoured, broke in pieces, and trampled the residue with its feet; 20 and the ten horns that were on its head, and the other horn which came up, before which three fell, namely, that horn which had eyes and a mouth which spoke [i]pompous words, whose appearance was greater than his fellows.

21 “I was watching; and the same horn was making war against the saints, and prevailing against them, 22 until the Ancient of Days came, and a judgment was made in favor of the saints of the Most High, and the time came for the saints to possess the kingdom.

23 “Thus he said:

‘The fourth beast shall be
A fourth kingdom on earth,
Which shall be different from all other kingdoms,
And shall devour the whole earth,
Trample it and break it in pieces.
24 The ten horns are ten kings
Who shall arise from this kingdom.
And another shall rise after them;
He shall be different from the first ones,
And shall subdue three kings.

25 He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute[j] the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and half a time.
26 ‘But the court shall be seated,
And they shall take away his dominion,
To consume and destroy it forever.
27 Then the kingdom and dominion,
And the greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven,
Shall be given to the people, the saints of the Most High.
His kingdom is an everlasting kingdom,
And all dominions shall serve and obey Him.’
28 “This is the end of the [k]account. As for me, Daniel, my thoughts greatly troubled me, and my countenance changed; but I kept the matter in my heart.”

 

[Truth7t7]

No we can not be in the thousand years now, when did the thousand years start?
Who is left to be alive during the thousand years?
All the people who return with Christ, all the people who are alive on earth are caught up in the air to meet Christ as He returns, then all the saved are there with Him and He comes down and destroys all the unbelievers and their armies.
And we inherit the earth for a thousand years, all believers at this point have been resurrected.
Then afterwards, the final judgement, God makes us new heavens and a new earth.

In Jude, that number is not literal, it is just a very large number of people who come back with Christ, all the saints who died in the lord up until that time.

14 Now Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied about these men also, saying, “Behold, the Lord comes with ten thousands of His saints, 15 to execute judgment on all, to convict all who are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have committed in an ungodly way, and of all the harsh things which ungodly sinners have spoken against Him.”

The words (Thousand Years) is doing nothing more than show the Lord's eternal realm of "No Time"

No mortals or a kingdom on earth seen in Revelation 20:1-6, it's 100% in the Lord's eternal spiritual realm where one day is a thousand years "No Time" The Souls, The Dead, "Spiritual Realm"

Of course you want to create a literal kingdom on earth that's not seen, and you don't stand alone

Jesus returns in fire and final judgment, dissolving this earth by fire (The End)

2 Peter 3:8KJV
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

 

[Marty fox]

I really have trouble understanding your time line. Let me reiterate what I think you're saying, and you can correct me? The battle of Armageddon *precedes* the 2nd Coming, and involves the Antichrist's gathering of Babylon to destroy her? And it is *at that time* that the nations mourn--not because Christ is coming back, but only because they come to realize that Jesus is Messiah *before he returns?* They are mourning because they see the needless state of trouble in the world caused by their failure to accept him as Messiah?

Kind of yes But its not the antichrist it’s the beast as John describes the beast and their purposes different

The battle at Armageddon was Rome destroying Jerusalem in 70AD and the people were the Jews who realize that they rejected and killed their God and messiah

 

[Randy Kluth]

Kind of yes But its not the antichrist it’s the beast as John describes the beast and their purposes different

The battle at Armageddon was Rome destroying Jerusalem in 70AD and the people were the Jews who realize that they rejected and killed their God and messiah

Oh, you see that Armageddon was actually fulfilled in 70 AD, and is *not* a future event?

 

[Randy Kluth]

The words (Thousand Years) is doing nothing more than show the Lord's eternal realm of "No Time"

Oh gee, why didn't I see that? 1000 years = Eternity.