Heaven Or Oblivion: Natural Man Theology

[robert derrick]

Everyone wants to do away with hell, but no one wants to get rid of heaven.

They either make hell a parable only, which makes Jesus a false prophet and maker of myths, or a lie to scare sinners, which makes Jesus a mean false prophet.

But in any case, there can be no such thing as oblivion, where there is the true God that is everywhere at all times, and nothing can exist without him, including 'nonexistence'.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The only thing that can be made without Christ, is nothing. And there is no such thing as nothing without Christ.

That especially includes something made becoming unmade, as though it were nothing.

God is the Creator only, not an uncreator who uncreates what He has created.

The only oblivion is in the minds of natural theologians, that want hell to be a parable, and the lake of fire to be a maker of nothingness.

That Maker would have to be Jesus Christ, who only creates, but does not uncreate nor unmake anything He has made.

 

[robert derrick]

It's also peculiar that natural minded theologians who can imagine an oblivion that does not exist, and yet they cannot bring themselves to fathom even the notion that God can become a man if He wants to.

They can believe in something that no Scripture speaks of nor even hints at, and yet they can't believe in Scriptures that plainly say the Word was God and came in the flesh to dwell among men on earth.

I guess that's what being natural minded theologian is all about: believing what we think we can imagine, and not what God says is so on paper.

 

[robert derrick]

Some who believe in oblivion, also say that creation comes from God, and then returns to God and has no more existence.

This is saying that something existing, that comes from God, then returns to God and once again ceases to exist. And so, God has nonexistence in Him, from which nonexistence comes creation from God. God is a Creator and Uncreator.

There is no non-existence with God nor within God. There is no nothingness with nor in God:

For with God nothing shall be impossible.

The current heaven and earth will flee from the face of God on the throne, not return to Him to become nothingness within Him.

Nor did this heaven and earth come from God, which makes natural creation a part of God. This is the pagan spiritism of God being in and part of His own created earth Gaia. They teach heaven and earth comes from God and is part of God and is God,

Scripture declares that heaven and earth is created by the word of God, not that it comes from God.

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

God's words come from God, and by His Word all things are created in heaven and earth. That which is naturally created is made by His word, not comes from Him.

The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God;

Christ came from God, and Christ is not created, nor has He returned to God to become nonexistent nothingness.

 

[MatthewG]

I believe hell was a real place, it had two places in it (Paradise - and the prison part), but according to the Bible it is done away with, according to John in Revelation 20:14, Robert.

Yes, Hell was once a place, Even Jesus died and went there. Until it was done away with.

That is why I do not believe people go to hell today and it is all because of the victory of Christ.

With this two places still remain - Outside or Inside of the Kingdom also according to what John had wrote with-in the book of Revelation.

 

[robert derrick]

I believe hell was a real place, it had two places in it (Paradise - and the prison part), but according to the Bible it is done away with, according to John in Revelation 20:14, Robert.

Yes, Hell was once a place, Even Jesus died and went there. Until it was done away with.

That is why I do not believe people go to hell today and it is all because of the victory of Christ.

With this two places still remain - Outside or Inside of the Kingdom also according to what John had wrote with-in the book of Revelation.

You're a little ahead of yourself. First Jesus returns. Then the saints are resurrected to meet Him. Then He destroys the armies of nations. Then He separates sheep from goats, and rules the sheep in His earthly reign. Then Satan is loosed and Gog and Magog gather to be burned with the earth by fire of God. Then the resurrection of the rest of the dead. Then the judgment of the dead to be found int he Lamb's book of life, or cast into the lake of fire.

And then death and hell are cast into the lake of fire.

You are at least one thousand years ahead of yourself.

And God.

 

[MatthewG]

Oh you may believe however you like @robert derrick. You are free completely to choose for yourself what you believe my friend. I don’t see you any other way than a person who lives to serve God and to love others believing the Gospel friend. I just happen to be 1000 years ahead of everyone though, but I don’t see anyone inferior at all, and I don’t see myself as better. All equal here.

Love to you sir have a good night.

 

[Earburner]

Everyone wants to do away with hell, but no one wants to get rid of heaven.

They either make hell a parable only, which makes Jesus a false prophet and maker of myths, or a lie to scare sinners, which makes Jesus a mean false prophet.

But in any case, there can be no such thing as oblivion, where there is the true God that is everywhere at all times, and nothing can exist without him, including 'nonexistence'.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

The only thing that can be made without Christ, is nothing. And there is no such thing as nothing without Christ.

That especially includes something made becoming unmade, as though it were nothing.

God is the Creator only, not an uncreator who uncreates what He has created.

The only oblivion is in the minds of natural theologians, that want hell to be a parable, and the lake of fire to be a maker of nothingness.

That Maker would have to be Jesus Christ, who only creates, but does not uncreate nor unmake anything He has made.

Mat. 26
[24] The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

So is Judas Iscarriot-
1. Eternally dead and destroyed in hell, the grave?
2. Living in the man made religious Hell of eternal punishing?
3. Having died as if he never lived?
Rom. 8:9.
Judas could have received the forgiveness of God, if he had repented, but instead he took his own life, before the day of Pentecost.
Therefore, he died without receiving the Spirit of Christ, has perished, and is gone forever.

Compare that of Peter who denied Christ three times, but repented and sought forgiveness, of which he received, and then went on to Pentecost.
Unfortunately for Judas, he could not be present on the day of Pentecost, because he was not physically alive and died being unrepentant, having not received the Spirit of Christ.

Between the two of them, which was the greater sin?
Ans. Neither. Both were deserving of eternal death "already". However, only one was available to receive the Gift of God's Holy Spirit.
John 3:18
Rom. 8:9

 

[robert derrick]

Mat. 26
[24] The Son of man goeth as it is written of him: but woe unto that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! it had been good for that man if he had not been born.

So is Judas Iscarriot-
1. Eternally dead and destroyed in hell, the grave?
2. Living in the man made religious Hell of eternal punishing?
3. Having died as if he never lived?
Rom. 8:9.
Judas could have received the forgiveness of God, if he had repented, but instead he took his own life, before the day of Pentecost.
Therefore, he died without receiving the Spirit of Christ, has perished, and is gone forever.

Compare that of Peter who denied Christ three times, but repented and sought forgiveness, of which he received, and then went on to Pentecost.
Unfortunately for Judas, he could not be present on the day of Pentecost, because he was not physically alive and died being unrepentant, having not received the Spirit of Christ.

Between the two of them, which was the greater sin?
Ans. Neither. Both were deserving of eternal death "already". However, only one was available to receive the Gift of God's Holy Spirit.
John 3:18
Rom. 8:9

Judas is in torment in hell, and Peter is in blessed presence of the Lord.