Sinless Perfectionism

[Bible Highlighter]

When we say that we have no sin we make God a liar.

1 John is a chapter written clearly for believers. When we read 1 John in context, we see that one of the aspects of walking in the light is confessing our sin. When I hear people say that they don’t remember the last time that they sinned and that they are currently living perfectly, that is a lie. We deceive ourselves when we make such claims. Confessing your sins is one of the evidences that you are saved. You can never hide sin in His light.
1 John 1:7-10 “but if we walk in the Light as He Himself is in the Light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin. 8 If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us.”

No. Your taking 1 John 1:8 out of context (of which I will explain in my next post to you). Those who preach against being perfect are making God a liar because they speak against scores of Scripture verses that talk about how we can be perfect (By His Word).

Jesus says, “The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.” (Luke 6:40).

Paul says, “Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” (Colossians 4:12).

Paul says, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

James says, “But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.” (James 1:4). James also says, ““Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?” (James 2:22).

Jesus says, ““Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.” (Revelation 3:2).

Paul says, “This work must continue until we are all joined together in the same faith [or all reach unity in the faith] and in the same knowledge of the Son of God. We must become like a mature person [or the perfect Man; Christ], growing until we become like Christ and have his perfection [ to the measure of the stature of Christ’s fullness ].” (Ephesians 4:13 EXB).

Paul says, “It is he whom we proclaim, admonishing everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone perfect in Christ” (Colossians 1:28 NABRE).

Real world example:

An alcoholic can condone his alcohol by him saying he can drink occasionally on his way to being sober free. But he will never be sober free because he has no intention of stopping. He is hoping one day somebody else will stop him.

If GOD is perfect in all He does, then why cannot GOD perfect a believer while they still live?

Are they saying they are more powerful than GOD?

For why would a person want to continue in sin on any level?
For if a person knew of a way to stop sinning so as to please God, why would they not want to take that chance?

For would not the opposite of Sinless Perfectionism be Sinful Imperfectionism? Is there such a thing as a “sinning saint”? What about a righteous sinner?

But some will object and say they believe that they are for living righteously. But how much should one live righteously? Are we to live righteously at about 90%? How about 80%? 75%? 20%? Is there a percentage that we do not cross the line at?

Your OP said, I quote:

"Godly Christians know their sinfulness."​

This implies that their undealt sin in their life that they are not putting away.

2 Peter 2:9 says:
"The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:"

Notice that God knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations.
This does not sound like your version of a godly person.

I mean, stop and think about 2 Peter 2:9 for a second.
If God delivers you out of temptations to sin, then how are you going to sin?
The whole point of God delivering out of temptations is for the purpose of not sinning.

Peter mentions how there are false teachers (2 Peter 2:1).
Then he says this about these false teachers (Which should make you tremble at the fear of the LORD).

2 Peter 2:14
"Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:"

Notice. What's one of the problems with these false teachers?
They cannot cease from sin (Which you believe is impossible).
You can play Greek word games if you like and think that those many Christians who believed the King James Bible were deceived for hundreds of years before Textual Criticism came about, but that just does not sound realistic.

Again, to say that the godly knows their sinfulness is to call that which evil as good.
The OP is saying they must be in some kind of sin to know they are godly.

Isaiah 5:20 says:
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

For your position is a defense of sin (Which is of the devil).

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jude 1:24 Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy,

Bravo, my friend. Great verse!

He can keep us from falling just as His Word says.

Here is another one.

As a part of making our calling and election sure, we are to do the following things (in the list below), which will ensure that we will never stumble or fall; and an entrance will be supplied to us abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

1. Add to your Faith: Virtue.
2. Add to Virtue: Knowledge.
3. Add to Knowledge: Self Control.
4. Add to Self Control: Perseverance.
5. Add to Perseverance: Godliness.
6. Add to Godliness: Brotherly kindness.
7. Add to Brotherly kindness: Charity (Love).

(2 Peter 1:5-11).


2 Peter 1:5-11
5 "And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
6 And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness;
7 And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity.
8 For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins.
10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."

*Big hugs to you in the LORD*

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@Johann

In regards to your sin and still be saved interpretation on 1 John 1:8:

Well, first off, the context (i.e. The surrounding words in the chapter and following chapters) mentions nothing about how we are enslaved to sin. The context actually talks about the exact opposite and it gives us the necessity of obedience to God and not disobedience to God.

#1. If we walk in darkness we lie and do not the truth (1 John 1:6),
#2. Cleansed of all unrighteousness by confessing sin (1 John 1:9).
#3. Sin not (1 John 2:1).
#3. Hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments (1 John 2:3).
#4. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him (1 John 2:4).
#5. He that doeth righteousness is righteous (1 John 3:7).
#6. He that committeth sin is of the devil (1 John 3:8).
#7. Whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother (1 John 3:10).
#8. Whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight (1 John 3:22).
#9. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love (1 John 4:8).
#10. By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments (1 John 5:2).
#11. We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not. (1 John 5:18).
#12. And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness (1 John 5:19).


Second, the idea of how one must be in sin again as being the godly position is in pure ignorance of the warning in Malachi 2:17.

Malachi 2:17 AMP
“You have wearied the LORD with your words. But you say, “In what way have we wearied Him?” In that you say, “Everyone who does evil is good in the sight of the LORD, and He delights in them,” or [by asking], “Where is the God of justice?”


Three, Christians who take the sin and still be saved interpretation on 1 John 1:8 obviously believe they are still saved if they will commit sin on occasion at some future date (they must commit). They will declare imaginary things like they are saved solely by believing on the finished work of the cross (Which is not a saying in the Bible). So this means they can sin and still be saved on some level. But Scripture warns against this kind of thinking.

Proverbs 30:20 says:
“Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth, and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.”


Four, what is helpful in understanding 1 John 1:8 is looking at its immediate context. 1 John 1:10 says if we say we have not sinned. 1 John 1:10 switches gears from 1 John 1:8 in regards to time; John talks about the declaration on committing sin in verse 8 (which is present tense) to a declaration on committing sin being a past declaration (with verse 10). Verse 10 is saying there are people who said they have not sinned (past tense). This is clearly a gnostic belief. Why? Well, most believers today hold to the idea that they have sinned as a part of their old life before coming to Christ (Regardless of whether they are “OSAS,” a “Sin and still be saved” type believer, or a “Conditional Salvationist”). So this clearly is a “gnostic belief” that John was warning the brethren about (See 1 John 2:26). 1 John 1:8 is a present declaration of sin. It is saying if we say we have no sin when we do sin (present tense). This has to be the interpretative understanding of this verse because 1 John 2:4 says if we say we know Him and do not keep His commandments we are a liar and the truth is not in us. The OSAS's interpretation on 1 John 1:8 does not work because it conflicts with a normal reading on 1 John 2:3-4. You cannot always be in sin (breaking God's commands) as a part of 1 John 1:8 and yet also fulfill 1 John 2:3 that says we can have an assurance of knowing Him if we keep His commandments. Especially when 1 John 2:4 says we are a liar and the truth is not in us if we break his commandments. In other words, if the OSAS interpretation on 1 John 1:8 was true, then I would be damned if I do by obeying God's commands (1 John 1:8) and yet I would be damned if I don't by not obeying God's commands (1 John 2:4).

In fact, the New English Translation says this for 1 John 1:8,

"If we say we do not bear the guilt of sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us." (1 John 1:8 NET).​

In other words, this verse is saying that if a person sins and says they do not bear the guilt of sin (in the sense that they will not have to face any wrath or Judgment from God over their sin) then they would be deceiving themselves and the truth would not be in them. This is exactly what the Eternal Security proposes. They are saying that they do not bear the guilt of any sin (destruction of their soul and body in hell fire) if they do sin because they believe their future sins are paid for by Jesus. They are saying, they do not bear the guilt or the punishment of sin at the final Judgment because of their belief on Jesus. In short, 1 John 1:8 is a denial of the existence of sin on some level. “If we say we have no sin (in the sense that it does not exist) we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.” (1 John 1:8). Christian Scientists think sin is an illusion and does not exist at all. So this verse would apply to them. Eternal Security Proponents and those who deny that “Sin Can Separate a Believer from God” deny the existence of sin partially. They believe sin exists physically but they do not believe sin exists for them on a spiritual level because Jesus has forgiven them of all their sin by their belief on Jesus. In fact, to see just how silly your argument actually is for 1 John 1:8, you would have to believe that you are sinning right now at this very moment in order for such a verse to be true because 1 John 1:8 is speaking in the present tense.

John prescribes that we do not think that sin is an illusion, and we are automatically saved, but John is telling us to "sin not" and go to our advocate Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1), and confess our sins so as to be forgiven of sin and to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). How can you confess and be forgiven of sin if all your future sin is paid for? It makes no sense.

You can say that John is talking about a break of fellowship by one's sins and not a loss of salvation, but that would not be consistent with Scripture. 1 John 5:12 says he that has the Son has life, and he that does not have the Son does not have life.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

A person with a genuine relationship with their father is going to confess their faults. The Holy Spirit is going to convict us of sin and if He’s not, that is evidence of false conversion. If God is not treating you as His child, then that is evidence that you are not His. Having unconfessed sin blocks God from listening to you. It’s dangerous to claim to be without sin.

This is insanity. To confess sin with no real change or reform from sin makes one’s confession as being nothing.

In the parable of the unforgiving servant, we learn that lip service in seeking forgiveness without any real reform or change is meaningless (See: Matthew 18:21-35).

It would be like a man who cheats on his wife and he keeps paying lip service to her that he is sorry, but he has no real intention of stopping. Would that be enough to keep that relationship alive? Most likely not. His disloyalty will only show he does not care for her. So it is with God. If you are just paying lip service in saying sorry, but you don’t really have any intention of overcoming sin for good, it is pointless and one is not really sorry over their sin. Do you realize that in the story of Jonah, that God did not make the decision to turn back in bringing wrath upon the Ninevites not when they called out unto the Lord, but when they turned from their wicked ways (See: Jonah 3:6-10). In the Parable of the Minas, the Jesus that many today do not like to hear say is this:

“But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ” (Luke 19:27) (NKJV).

Many in Christianity today do not want the Lord to reign over them. They are still defending how they must sin on some level.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Psalm 19:12 teaches us to confess even our unknown sins.

This again is the same wrong approach that you are taking with 1 John 1:8 in the fact that you are ripping the verse out of it’s context (i.e. the surrounding words). The verse is not teaching there is some kind of sins that we cannot possibly ever know. The sins would be the breaking of God’s knowable laws, but they are only secret or hidden from the eyes of the one who may be committing them without them realizing it (Whereby God and or their own careful observation of themselves around others will be able to see it). Many times, we do not look at ourselves from an objective fashion always and we should be sensitive to how we are always representing the LORD in all things (Instead of going with the flow). We must reflect daily on what we do (as an outsider looking in) and we must carefully weigh every action we take in life so as to show forth the love of God to others. Verses 7-11 leading up to verse 12 is not talking about sins we cannot possibly know about but they are talking about how the Law of the Lord is perfect converting the soul. The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever. This is the context and it leads us into verse 12. Verse 13 would be presumptuous sins that one would willfully (or knowingly commits). Sometimes we may not know we did a wrong until way later. It’s not that the sin cannot possibly be ever known. That’s not what Psalms 19:12 is saying. So this is a weak argument for Sinful Imperfectionism (Which is a defense for sin) (Note: BTW ~ Sin is of the devil’s kingdom, and not of God’s Kingdom. God does not want you to sin. Period. Why? Because God is holy and good, and just and righteous and pure, etcetera.

One second of an impure ungodly thought is sin.

Right, and Jesus warns that hellfire is on the menu if one looks upon a woman in lust (See: Matthew 5:28-30).

Worry in sin.

Christians should not worry and they should be casting all their cares upon Him because He cares for them (1 Peter 5:7).
Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; (Philippians 4:6).

Luke 12:22-32 appears to teach that worry is likened to one having little faith. The problem takes place when one is consumed by fear and that there is no hope whatsoever at all. Minor concerns or worry is described as having little faith. If you have faith as the size of a mustard seed you can tell a mountain to be removed and it will be moved.

Not working 100% fully for the Lord at your job is sin.

Chapter and verse please.

Sin is missing the mark.

What Bible verse says that?
1 John 3:4 says: “sin is the transgression of the law.”

No one can do what is required.

What Bible verse or passage says that?
Again, 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Galatians 5:24.
I know you tried to play the Greek game with these verses, but did you try and do that with 1 John 1:8?
Or are you content with the out of context English wording on this verse? If so… ask yourself why.

I know I can’t! I fall short daily, but I don’t live in condemnation. I look to Christ and it gives me joy. All I have is Jesus. I’m trusting in His perfection on my behalf.

This is not in the Bible, though. Just believing in Jesus for salvation will not save you alone if you disobey Him.
Be not deceived, the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God (See: 1 Corinthians 6:9-11).

Our sinfulness makes Christ blood on the cross so much more meaningful and precious.

Uh, no it doesn’t. The blood of Jesus is to cleanse us of our past sins when we first come to thee Lord for salvation. It’s not a means as a license to sin on any level. Jude 1:4 talks about those who turn God’s grace into a license for immorality. 1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. Walking in the light = Loving your brother according to the indirect wording in 1 John 2:9-11. So you have to strive to love your brother (help him in need if you have this world’s goods), and or pray and or feed them the Word in order for the blood to continue to cleanse you.

 

[Enoch111]

God does not want you to sin. Period. Why? Because God is holy and good, and just and righteous and pure, etcetera.

That is a given. However, since God does not eradicate the sin nature ("the flesh") when he saves a person, the possibility of sin remains. At the same time Christians are exhorted to "walk in the Spirit" and "mortify the flesh". This is all quite evident in Scripture. So every Christian must strive for sinless perfection, and at the same time be on guard in deluding himself (or herself) that he has attained that position. Even those who mislead others on forums commit sins.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

That is a given. However, since God does not eradicate the sin nature ("the flesh") when he saves a person, the possibility of sin remains. At the same time Christians are exhorted to "walk in the Spirit" and "mortify the flesh". This is all quite evident in Scripture. So every Christian must strive for sinless perfection, and at the same time be on guard in deluding himself (or herself) that he has attained that position. Even those who mislead others on forums commit sins.

The error of the other side of those who fight against “Sinless Perfection” (Which sounds like a defense for sin because they weaponize Scripture verses like 1 John 1:8, Romans 7:14-24 as excuses that they are slaves to sin this side of Heaven) is that they don’t realize that many of us believers (not all of us) are not claiming we are 100% perfect now (Just as Paul did not claim he was perfect and yet he was aiming for that goal). 2 Corinthians 7:1 holds the key of clarity here. It says, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit PERFECTING holiness in the fear of God. So we are to perfect holiness. It’s not that holiness is perfected on day one of the Christian walk. Christians do need to go through a learning and growth process. No doubt about it; And grace is what will get them there. For grace gives the believer the ability to even do the work (1 Corinthians 15:10). God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). We can only be perfect in conduct by going through the Sanctification Process of the Holy Spirit.

 

[rockytopva]

My most terrible of sins… Falling into the church gossip.

I came into Pentecostal Holiness introduced to a saintly membership… But the subsequent generations were not so. Too many judging others for basically not having the Holy Spirit when they were just as bad. And… I fell into the talk. If I could go back in time I would know the trouble makers and would have did my due diligence in dealing and finally avoiding them.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

My most terrible of sins… Falling into the church gossip.

I came into Pentecostal Holiness introduced to a saintly membership… But the subsequent generations were not so. Too many judging others for basically not having the Holy Spirit when they were just as bad. And… I fell into the talk. If I could go back in time I would know the trouble makers and would have did my due diligence in dealing and finally avoiding them.

Yes, I think there is a danger of folks thinking they are perfect and everyone else is pond scum. This is not how things should be. We should first judge ourselves so we will not be judged. If any man thinks himself to be something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. So I believe a Christian will not announce that they are perfect (Even if they may be in conduct). The goal is holiness and not justifying sin, but we should strive to help those who may be struggling with a sin instead of pouncing on them immediately for wrong doing. Granted, there are exceptions like the situation in 1 Corinthians 5. If they are Hyper Grace or Partial Hyper Grace, then that’s another matter entirely.

Anyways, sorry to hear about your experience.

May the Lord Jesus bless you.

 

[Johann]

This again is the same wrong approach that you are taking with 1 John 1:8 in the fact that you are ripping the verse out of it’s context (i.e. the surrounding words). The verse is not teaching there is some kind of sins that we cannot possibly ever know. The sins would be the breaking of God’s knowable laws, but they are only secret or hidden from the eyes of the one who may be committing them without them realizing it (Whereby God and or their own careful observation of themselves around others will be able to see it). Many times, we do not look at ourselves from an objective fashion always and we should be sensitive to how we are always representing the LORD in all things (Instead of going with the flow). We must reflect daily on what we do (as an outsider looking in) and we must carefully weigh every action we take in life so as to show forth the love of God to others. Verses 7-11 leading up to verse 12 is not talking about sins we cannot possibly know about but they are talking about how the Law of the Lord is perfect converting the soul. The commandment of the Lord is pure, enlightening the eyes. The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring forever. This is the context and it leads us into verse 12. Verse 13 would be presumptuous sins that one would willfully (or knowingly commits). Sometimes we may not know we did a wrong until way later. It’s not that the sin cannot possibly be ever known. That’s not what Psalms 19:12 is saying. So this is a weak argument for Sinful Imperfectionism (Which is a defense for sin) (Note: BTW ~ Sin is of the devil’s kingdom, and not of God’s Kingdom. God does not want you to sin. Period. Why? Because God is holy and good, and just and righteous and pure, etcetera.

Snap out of your delusion, and those that hold your doctrines.

You and most new comer females, in fact, most on this forum.

You are causing the immature to stumble, oh Sin-less one, you and your "followers" on this forum.
J.

 

[Johann]

No. Your taking 1 John 1:8 out of context (of which I will explain in my next post to you). Those who preach against being perfect are making God a liar because they speak against scores of Scripture verses that talk about how we can be perfect (By His Word).

Jesus says, “The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.” (Luke 6:40).

Paul says, “Epaphras, who is one of you, a servant of Christ, saluteth you, always labouring fervently for you in prayers, that ye may stand perfect and complete in all the will of God.” (Colossians 4:12).

Paul says, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

James says, “But let patience have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting nothing.” (James 1:4). James also says, ““Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?” (James 2:22).

Jesus says, ““Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.” (Revelation 3:2).

Paul says, “This work must continue until we are all joined together in the same faith [or all reach unity in the faith] and in the same knowledge of the Son of God. We must become like a mature person [or the perfect Man; Christ], growing until we become like Christ and have his perfection [ to the measure of the stature of Christ’s fullness ].” (Ephesians 4:13 EXB).

Paul says, “It is he whom we proclaim, admonishing everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone perfect in Christ” (Colossians 1:28 NABRE).

Real world example:

An alcoholic can condone his alcohol by him saying he can drink occasionally on his way to being sober free. But he will never be sober free because he has no intention of stopping. He is hoping one day somebody else will stop him.

If GOD is perfect in all He does, then why cannot GOD perfect a believer while they still live?

Are they saying they are more powerful than GOD?

For why would a person want to continue in sin on any level?
For if a person knew of a way to stop sinning so as to please God, why would they not want to take that chance?

For would not the opposite of Sinless Perfectionism be Sinful Imperfectionism? Is there such a thing as a “sinning saint”? What about a righteous sinner?

But some will object and say they believe that they are for living righteously. But how much should one live righteously? Are we to live righteously at about 90%? How about 80%? 75%? 20%? Is there a percentage that we do not cross the line at?

Your OP said, I quote:

"Godly Christians know their sinfulness."​

This implies that their undealt sin in their life that they are not putting away.

2 Peter 2:9 says:
"The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:"

Notice that God knows how to deliver the godly out of temptations.
This does not sound like your version of a godly person.

I mean, stop and think about 2 Peter 2:9 for a second.
If God delivers you out of temptations to sin, then how are you going to sin?
The whole point of God delivering out of temptations is for the purpose of not sinning.

Peter mentions how there are false teachers (2 Peter 2:1).
Then he says this about these false teachers (Which should make you tremble at the fear of the LORD).

2 Peter 2:14
"Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:"

Notice. What's one of the problems with these false teachers?
They cannot cease from sin (Which you believe is impossible).
You can play Greek word games if you like and think that those many Christians who believed the King James Bible were deceived for hundreds of years before Textual Criticism came about, but that just does not sound realistic.

Again, to say that the godly knows their sinfulness is to call that which evil as good.
The OP is saying they must be in some kind of sin to know they are godly.

Isaiah 5:20 says:
"Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

For your position is a defense of sin (Which is of the devil).

You are in a state of living a delusional style of life.
J.

 

[Johann]

You are in a state of living a delusional style of life.
J.

 

[HIM]

Yes, I think there is a danger of folks thinking they are perfect and everyone else is pond scum. This is not how things should be. We should first judge ourselves so we will not be judged. If any man thinks himself to be something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. So I believe a Christian will not announce that they are perfect (Even if they may be in conduct). The goal is holiness and not justifying sin, but we should strive to help those who may be struggling with a sin instead of pouncing on them immediately for wrong doing. Granted, there are exceptions like the situation in 1 Corinthians 5. If they are Hyper Grace or Partial Hyper Grace, then that’s another matter entirely.

Anyways, sorry to hear about your experience.

May the Lord Jesus bless you.

Even when Jesus was called Good He did not take any credit but said, "There is known good but one that is God".

 

[Johann]

Right, and Jesus warns that hellfire is on the menu if one looks upon a woman in lust (See: Matthew 5:28-30).

...and you don't.
You are promulgating a heteros gospel brother.
J.

 

[Johann]

This is insanity. To confess sin with no real change or reform from sin makes one’s confession as being nothing.

In the parable of the unforgiving servant, we learn that lip service in seeking forgiveness without any real reform or change is meaningless (See: Matthew 18:21-35).

It would be like a man who cheats on his wife and he keeps paying lip service to her that he is sorry, but he has no real intention of stopping. Would that be enough to keep that relationship alive? Most likely not. His disloyalty will only show he does not care for her. So it is with God. If you are just paying lip service in saying sorry, but you don’t really have any intention of overcoming sin for good, it is pointless and one is not really sorry over their sin. Do you realize that in the story of Jonah, that God did not make the decision to turn back in bringing wrath upon the Ninevites not when they called out unto the Lord, but when they turned from their wicked ways (See: Jonah 3:6-10). In the Parable of the Minas, the Jesus that many today do not like to hear say is this:

“But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.’ ” (Luke 19:27) (NKJV).

Many in Christianity today do not want the Lord to reign over them. They are still defending how they must sin on some level.

You, and most here, are redefining the scriptures brother.
J.

 

[HIM]

(Eph 1:4 [ASV])
even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blemish before him in love:

 

[HIM]

(Phil 2:15 [ASV])
that ye may become blameless and harmless, children of God without blemish in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom ye are seen as lights in the world,

 

[HIM]

(1Thess 5:23 [ASV])
And the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved entire, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[HIM]

Snap out of your delusion, and those that hold your doctrines.

You and most new comer females, in fact, most on this forum.

You are causing the immature to stumble, oh Sin-less one, you and your "followers" on this forum.

He gave himself for us to set us free from every kind of lawlessness and to purify for himself a people who are truly his, who are eager to do good. For he that commits sin is a slave to it. And if the Son shall set you free. Free we are indeed.

 

[Johann]

John prescribes that we do not think that sin is an illusion, and we are automatically saved, but John is telling us to "sin not" and go to our advocate Jesus Christ (1 John 2:1), and confess our sins so as to be forgiven of sin and to be cleansed of all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). How can you confess and be forgiven of sin if all your future sin is paid for? It makes no sense.

See how you redefine scriptures?
In certain quarters this Gnostic belief went even further. The Gnostic was the man who had gnosis (G1108), knowledge. Some held that the real Gnostic must, therefore, know the best as well as the worst and must enter into every experience of life at its highest or at its deepest level, as the case may be. It might almost be said that such men held that it was an obligation to sin. There is a reference to this kind of belief in the letter to Thyatira in the Revelation, where the Risen Christ refers to those who have known "the deep things of Satan" (Rev_2:24). And it may well be that John is referring to these people when he insists that "God is light, and in him is no darkness at all" (1Jn_1:5). These particular Gnostics would have held that there was in God not only blazing light but deep darkness and that a man must penetrate both. It is easy to see the disastrous consequences of such a belief.

(3) There was a third kind of Gnostic belief. The true Gnostic regarded himself as an altogether spiritual man, as having shed all the material things of life and released his spirit from the bondage of matter. Such Gnostics held that they were so spiritual that they were above and beyond sin and had reached spiritual perfection. It is to them that John refers when he speaks of those who deceive themselves by saying that they have no sin (1Jn_1:8-10).

Whichever of these three ways Gnostic belief took, its ethical consequences were perilous in the extreme; and it is clear that its last two were to be found in the society to which John wrote.
1Ki_22:34, “One drew a bow לתמוּ letumô in the simplicity (or perfection) of his heart;” that is, without any evil intention; compare 2Sa_15:11; Pro_10:9. The proper notion, therefore, is that of simplicity. sincerity, absence from guile or evil intention, and completeness of parts in his religion. That he was a man absolutely sinless, or without any propensity to evil, is disproved alike by the spirit of complaining which he often evinces, and by his own confession, Job_9:20 :
If I justify myself, mine own mouth shall condemn me;
If I say I am perfect, it shall prove me perverse.
So also Job_42:5-6 :
I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear,
But now mine eye seeth thee;
Wherefore I abhor myself,
And repent in dust and ashes.
Compare Ecc_7:20.
And upright - The word ישׁר yâshâr, from ישׁר yâshar, to be straight, is applied often to a road which is straight, or to a path which is level or even. As used here it means upright or righteous; compare Psa_11:7; Psa_37:14,; Deu_32:4; Psa_33:4.
And one that feared God - Religion in the Scriptures is often represented as the fear of God; Pro_1:7, Pro_1:29; Pro_2:5; Pro_8:13; Pro_14:26-27; Isa_11:2; Act_9:31, “et soepe al.”
And eschewed evil - “And departed from (סוּר sûr) evil.” Septuagint, “Abstaining from every evil thing.” These then are the four characteristics of Job’s piety - he was sincere; upright; a worshipper of God; and one who abstained from all wrong. These are the essential elements of true religion everywhere; and the whole statement in the book of Job shows Job was, though not absolutely free from the sins which cleave to our nature, eminent in each of these things.

Hmm, like I have said to marks, you guys do believe in positional sanctification, but the "progressive part"


Rom 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

2Co 3:17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
2Co 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

3:18 In the Old Covenant, Moses alone was allowed to see the glory of the Lord. Under the New Covenant, we all have the privilege of beholding ... the glory of the Lord. Moses' face had to be veiled after he had finished speaking with the people, but we can have an unveiled face. We can keep our face unveiled by confessing and forsaking sin, by being completely honest with God and ourselves. As a veteran missionary to India once said, we must “drop the veils of sin, of make-believe, all play-acting, all putting up of unreal fronts, all attempts at compromises, all halfway measures, all Yes and No.”


The next step is beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord. The mirror is the word of God. As we go to the Bible, we see the Lord Jesus revealed in all His splendor. We do not yet see Him face to face, but only as mirrored in the word.
And note that it is the glory of the Lord that we behold. Here Paul is not thinking so much of the moral beauty of Jesus as a Man here on earth, but rather of His present glory, exalted at the right hand of God. The glory of Christ, as Denney points out, is that:


He shares the Father's throne, that He is the Head of the Church, possessor and bestower of all the fulness of divine grace, the coming Judge of the world, conqueror of every hostile power, intercessor for His own, and, in short, bearer of all the majesty which belongs to His kingly office.
As we are occupied with the glory of the risen, ascended, exalted Lord Jesus Christ, we are being transformed into the same image. Here, in a word, is the secret of Christian holiness—occupation with Christ. Not by occupation with self; that brings only defeat.


Not by occupation with others; that brings disappointment. But by occupation with the glory of the Lord, we become more and more like Him.
This marvelous, transforming process takes place from glory to glory, that is, from one degree of glory to another. It is not a matter of instant change. There is no experience in the Christian life that will reproduce His image in a moment. It is a process, not a crisis. It is not like the fading glory of the law, but an ever-increasing glory.

Cutting out, with scissors, the progressive sanctification part, you are god, nothing to be judged for, no need to stand before the Judge, you have already receive your reward in this life.

Tell me, Billy the Kid, are "babes in Christ" also sinless?

J.