robert derrick
Well-Known Member
True. Preaching perfectionism of thought, is not preaching doing righteousness at all times.
What does it mean "there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus".....
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Let all who name the name of Christ DEPART FROM inquity .
Let it not once be named amongst you as BECOMETH saints . DONT SELL OUT now .
Let it not once be named amongst you as BECOMETH saints . DONT SELL OUT now .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
The WORD is THE GLORIOUS GOSPEL . Let all that draws breath praise the glorious LORD .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
They was wicked to the core . Just cause most folks had rather follow the warped teachings of men
and just cause most folks follow only parts of the scrips and twist others , DONT MEAN folks should not have the bible for themselves .
That dark dungeon has killed more souls of people than has any other place known to man .
And by souls i dont just mean actually physically putting to death folks , I MEAN ITS DOCTRINE has led folks right to damnation .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
they dont grasp romans seven at all . The sin that sins is our own flesh that puts those thoughts into our minds
BUT IF WE REJECT THEM we have not sinned . ITs when we obey those thoughts that we sin .
To have a evil thought is the sin of the flesh itself . ITS GONNA DO that to us
BUT if we obey the flesh , THEN WE SIN . RESIST the thought , resist the temptation and sin ye not . FOLKS dont like
that simple truth , cause then they have no excuse for when they DO OBEY SIN . THEY cant just say , HEY WE ALL SIN
we all have bad thoughts . ITS True we all do have bad thoughts , BUT WE DONT HAVE TO OBEY those evil thoughts
and act them out . THEY NO LIKEY that simple truth . THEY had rather just beleive we are a slave to sin and thus when we sin
ITS OKAY , NOPE . WE have a choice . EITHER OBEY THE SPIRIT , or obey the evil lusts of the flesh . Folks no likey that simple truth .
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
All we have is God's written word for God nor the Holy Spirit directly speak to man today.
Heb 1:1-2
God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Under the OT law Gos spake to man in various ways but 'in these last days' under the NT gospel dispensation God speaks to man 'by His Son' or "in His Son"
Those living under the OT system, "their revelation came piecemeal, here a little and there a little, line upon line, precept upon precept (Isa 28:10ff) (but) the revelation for the new covenant was brought in one vast body of truth. The old system was communicated through many persons, the new through the Son alone; and a proper understanding of that epic truth will dispel forever any notion that there could be any prophet, leader, or any other type of seer in the Christian dispensation, with a valid message from God. For God to communicate to mankind through any such persons would be a reversion (back) to the old system." Coffman Comm (my emp).
Christ speaks to us today by His new covenant that has been written down for us for that new covenant is not being given by piecemeal, little by little, line by line by self-proclaimed false prophets continually, gradually revealing His word over time. But we have all the completed NT word at one time written down for us contrasted from that old law which was not given all at once....."Over 1,500 years passed, from Moses to Christ. The Old Testament was not complete until the last word of Malachi was written. But in these last days. Peter identifies the last days as beginning on Pentecost (Acts 2:16-17). He has spoken. The importance of the message is shown by the Messenger! Not a prophet, but the Son of God! Paul says this to show us that the Good News, spoken all at once through Christ (and his apostles - Jn 14:26) was complete and no additions would ever be made to it. Compare what Paul says in Gal 1:6-9. The New Testament records in permanent form the Good News which came through Christ." (Bible Study NT, R. Ice)
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Sure it is for the written word is how Christ speaks to us today. Again, Heb 1:1-2 Christ is the Messenger that brought us His NT in writtten form. Therefore self-proclaimed false prophets are not the messengers delivering the NT piece by piece, line by line where we do not have the complete word today.
For God to directly communicate by prophets today would be reverting back to the OT system which was in "times past". But now today in a different way from that OT system that had prophets delivering God's word piecemeal, we have in these last days the NT spoken unto us by his Son in written form and NOT by self proclaimed false prophets, NOT by people who CLAIM to have God or the Holy Spirit directly speaking to them, NOT by piecemeal, line by line but by Christ Who has given us the NT all at once in written form.
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Man! What a inspiration you are!
You just gave me a new inspiration and cleared up all my questions on how and what manner the Holy Spirit is speaking to us, not by audible voice, but by and in and through the Scriptures, no new revelation, but illumination as to what stands written.
Do me a favor brother, see the account on the rich man and Lazarus...is it everlasting torment, or is the soul "destroyed" in hell.
Regards
J.
You are not going to be a "favorite" here, as most here hear voices and think the Holy Spirit is speaking directly to them.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
Hi,
Christ is the Messenger of the NT not those who claim to be current day prophets.
Everlasting torment.
The Holy Spirit "Illumination" Theory: A Critical Review
Must you be "illuminated" by the Holy Spirit before you can understand what he wrote?
christiancourier.com
Above is a good article exposing these present day prophets. Excerpt from above link:
"What if we proposed the following experiment.
Select two spiritual 'Christian' people and put them in separate rooms. Provide them with a difficult biblical text with which each person is equally unfamiliar.
Let one of them have access to a good library of reference works, and provide the other with nothing but an empty room and his illumination of the Spirit.
Allow each several hours of concentration. Then have each write his explanation of the obscure text.
Most assuredly, the person with access to the library will have a better grasp of the passage than the one who has relied solely on the “presence” of the Spirit.
If someone objects to this test, we need only to appeal to the admonition of Christ’s apostle."
Furthermore:
"If the Holy Spirit provides illumination to men today, why do scholars who subscribe to this ideology write books teaching folks the proper methods of Bible interpretation as professor Zuck has done?
According to their theory, such efforts have no value to the unbeliever, because he has “no spiritual capacity for welcoming and appropriating spiritual truths” (Zuck, 22). And their books should not be needed by anyone who has the illuminating Spirit, the alleged “Expositor” of truth."
These modern day prophets cannot even agree with each other over doctrinal issues though they claim to have "miraculous, revelational teachings" from the Holy Spirit
You speak directly to me brother, I have booked marked the Hebrews 1 commentary by Coffman, and what you have posted I am in full agreement, with you, and the authors.Hi,
Christ is the Messenger of the NT not those who claim to be current day prophets.
Everlasting torment.
The Holy Spirit "Illumination" Theory: A Critical Review
Must you be "illuminated" by the Holy Spirit before you can understand what he wrote?
Above is a good article exposing these present day prophets. Excerpt from above link:
"What if we proposed the following experiment.
Select two spiritual 'Christian' people and put them in separate rooms. Provide them with a difficult biblical text with which each person is equally unfamiliar.
Let one of them have access to a good library of reference works, and provide the other with nothing but an empty room and his illumination of the Spirit.
Allow each several hours of concentration. Then have each write his explanation of the obscure text.
Most assuredly, the person with access to the library will have a better grasp of the passage than the one who has relied solely on the “presence” of the Spirit.
If someone objects to this test, we need only to appeal to the admonition of Christ’s apostle."
Furthermore:
"If the Holy Spirit provides illumination to men today, why do scholars who subscribe to this ideology write books teaching folks the proper methods of Bible interpretation as professor Zuck has done?
According to their theory, such efforts have no value to the unbeliever, because he has “no spiritual capacity for welcoming and appropriating spiritual truths” (Zuck, 22). And their books should not be needed by anyone who has the illuminating Spirit, the alleged “Expositor” of truth."
These modern day prophets cannot even agree with each other over doctrinal issues though they claim to have "miraculous, revelational teachings" from the Holy Spirit
I use a wide range of commentaries wherever I can find them, nothing wrong with that.
And correct again, these "modern day giants" don't agree with each other.
Do you have more links? And anything on eternal torment which is debunked on this forum?
Romans 9:22 - Is Eternal Punishment Fair?
Is it fair for God to punish the wicked for all eternity? Some believe that it is not, and have, therefore, developed a doctrinal view that denies this clear warning of scripture.
christiancourier.com
Why Would a Loving God Send Us to Hell?
Is the doctrine of eternal punishment in hell consistent with the idea of a good and loving God?
christiancourier.com
The Holy Spirit "Illumination" Theory: A Critical Review
Must you be "illuminated" by the Holy Spirit before you can understand what he wrote?
christiancourier.com
I was dejected, cast down and depressed and almost gave up, till I found your posts brother, the Lord must have used you.
According to christiancourier it is everlasting torment and curiously, the wrath of God is PRESENTLY abiding on anyone one rejecting Christ.
Bless you brother, and don't forget to sent the links!
Johann.
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
2 Cor 4:18You speak directly to me brother, I have booked marked the Hebrews 1 commentary by Coffman, and what you have posted I am in full agreement, with you, and the authors.
I use a wide range of commentaries wherever I can find them, nothing wrong with that.
And correct again, these "modern day giants" don't agree with each other.
Do you have more links? And anything on eternal torment which is debunked on this forum?
Romans 9:22 - Is Eternal Punishment Fair?
Is it fair for God to punish the wicked for all eternity? Some believe that it is not, and have, therefore, developed a doctrinal view that denies this clear warning of scripture.
Why Would a Loving God Send Us to Hell?
Is the doctrine of eternal punishment in hell consistent with the idea of a good and loving God?
The Holy Spirit "Illumination" Theory: A Critical Review
Must you be "illuminated" by the Holy Spirit before you can understand what he wrote?
I was dejected, cast down and depressed and almost gave up, till I found your posts brother, the Lord must have used you.
According to christiancourier it is everlasting torment and curiously, the wrath of God is PRESENTLY abiding on anyone one rejecting Christ.
Bless you brother, and don't forget to sent the links!
Johann.
While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal (aionios)".
Paul is not contrasting temporal things to temporal things but instead is contrasting the temporal to things eternal meaning aionios does not refer to temporal or time limiting but forever, ongoing. What is unseen as God, heaven, hell are not temporal but eternal, forever.
Similar contrast is made in Philemon 1:15 between a "season" that is time limited contrasted to "for ever" (aionios) which is timeless, ongoing eternally.
more links about hell being eternal below:
You searched for eternal punishment - Apologetics Press
apologeticspress.org
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Furthermore, the idea that eternity is “too long” only appeals to the human emotions when dealing with punishment, never with reward. Who would argue that heaven cannot be eternal because God would be unjust to reward us for “so long.” On the contrary, the eternality of heaven and hell stand and fall together. And both find their place in the justice and mercy of God. When Christ spoke to the people of His day about the ultimate fate of humanity in eternity, He stated that the wicked would “go away into everlasting (aionios) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (aionios) life” (Matthew 25:46). The Greek word aionios, rendered “eternal” in the English, is the same Greek word (aionios) rendered earlier as “everlasting,” Precisely the same word is applied to the punishment of the wicked as to the reward of the righteous. Those who are willing to accept Christ’s teaching on heaven should have no trouble accepting His teaching on hell.2 Cor 4:18
While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal (aionios)".
Paul is not contrasting temporal things to temporal things but instead is contrasting the temporal to things eternal meaning aionios does not refer to temporal or time limiting but forever, ongoing. What is unseen as God, heaven, hell are not temporal but eternal, forever.
Similar contrast is made in Philemon 1:15 between a "season" that is time limited contrasted to "for ever" (aionios) which is timeless, ongoing eternally.
more links about hell being eternal below:
You searched for eternal punishment - Apologetics Press
REFERENCES
“Revisiting the Abyss,” (1991), U.S. News & World Report, 110[11]:60, March 25.
The Reality of Eternal Hell - Apologetics Press
Hell has been depicted as a lake of fire, eternal torment, and everlasting punishment. Because of the heinous nature of hell, many have decided that it is impossible for a loving God to conceive such a place, much less send His wayward creatures there. For this reason, they have rejected the...
apologeticspress.org
Be prepared, we have "scholars" here that would argue aionios is NOT eternal nor everlasting brother and the site that I have book marked is coming up under scrutiny.
I'll bookmark this one too..........
Stay strong
J.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
only if man makes it so . Following JESUS is not a heavy burden that is grievious at all .
TRUTH is , the only thing that grieves me , IS SIN , is error . YET following the SPIRIT brings nothing but joy and peace .
We MAKE it difficult when we do not want to let go of the sin that does so easily surround us , aka beset us .
WHEN leaders tell churches a powerless JESUS and a powerless gospel , NO WONDER it becomes so difficult .
TIME FOR GRAVE MEN TO STAND and BE GRAVE .
THIS vainity that has so long been preached unto many churches has left them powerless against sin
believing they will be forever slaves to it and not rather CLINGING TO HE who can set one free .
Time to reopen those bibles with hearts that desire NOTHING but to PLEASE GOD . and watch and behold
both the strength and DESIRE HE WOULD GIVE us against the very sins of our own flesh .
But so long as we beleive men who never knew HE WHO has the KEYS , JESUS
then how on earth are we gonna be able to stand against the wiles of the devil .
TIME WE OPEN BIBLES again and stop reading them through the lens of men and rather through the lens of the SPIRIT
by which we can do all things through HE who strengthens us .
Ernest T. Bass
Well-Known Member
They may argue no one is so evil to deserve an eternity in hell, but likewise, no one is so good to deserve an eternity in heaven either.Furthermore, the idea that eternity is “too long” only appeals to the human emotions when dealing with punishment, never with reward. Who would argue that heaven cannot be eternal because God would be unjust to reward us for “so long.” On the contrary, the eternality of heaven and hell stand and fall together. And both find their place in the justice and mercy of God. When Christ spoke to the people of His day about the ultimate fate of humanity in eternity, He stated that the wicked would “go away into everlasting (aionios) punishment, but the righteous into eternal (aionios) life” (Matthew 25:46). The Greek word aionios, rendered “eternal” in the English, is the same Greek word (aionios) rendered earlier as “everlasting,” Precisely the same word is applied to the punishment of the wicked as to the reward of the righteous. Those who are willing to accept Christ’s teaching on heaven should have no trouble accepting His teaching on hell.
REFERENCES
“Revisiting the Abyss,” (1991), U.S. News & World Report, 110[11]:60, March 25.
The Reality of Eternal Hell - Apologetics Press
Hell has been depicted as a lake of fire, eternal torment, and everlasting punishment. Because of the heinous nature of hell, many have decided that it is impossible for a loving God to conceive such a place, much less send His wayward creatures there. For this reason, they have rejected the...
Be prepared, we have "scholars" here that would argue aionios is NOT eternal nor everlasting brother and the site that I have book marked is coming up under scrutiny.
I'll bookmark this one too..........
Stay strong
J.
My favorite of the articles is this one:
The Goodness of God and an Eternal Hell - Apologetics Press
Q. How can a “good” God condemn someone to hell forever? A. The late Bertrand Russell, a renowned British agnostic, authored a small publication titled Why I Am Not A Christian. One of the reasons he cited for his unbelief was that Jesus Christ taught that there is an eternal hell for the...
apologeticspress.org
The gist of the article is that even atheists believe that evil doers deserve punishment for there to be true justice of any kind.....
".....no one (skeptic or otherwise) is ready to concede that evil-doers are unworthy of any type of punishment. It is recognized that no society could survive in such an atmosphere. Should the rapist, the robber, and the murderer be told: “Admittedly, you have done wrong, but we (society) will not punish you for your crimes. That would be unjust.”? Is there anyone who argues that there should be no consequences resulting from criminal conduct? Absolutely not! It is conceded, therefore, that “punishment” is not inconsistent with true justice."
So what is the appropriate punishment to be given to match the sinful crime committed? It takes a murderer just one second of time to pull the trigger of a gun and murder other people. Does this mean the punishment should match the crime in the time it took to commit the murder, that is, should the murderer spend one second in jail for the one second it took to pull the trigger and murder people? Of course not. People who murder are given death sentences and death is forever, it's permanent. So even though it took a second to commit the crime, is an eternal, permanent death sentence just? Of course it is. The problem for annihilists is they feel they should dictate to God what appropriate length the punishment should be. From the article:
"Third, let us take our reasoning one step further. Is it the case that genuine justice can be served even when an evil man’s punishment is extended beyond the time actually involved in the commission of his crime? Do we, for example, in our criminal justice system, ask the murderer: “Sir, how long did it take you to kill your wife?”—and then assign his incarceration accordingly? Would justice be maintained by such an approach? Of course not. Here, then, is the point—true justice, combined with genuine goodness, allows the possibility that a wrong-doer may be required to suffer a penalty that is considerably longer than the duration of his evil. The real issue, therefore, is not punishment per se, or even protracted punishment; rather, it is eternal punishment. The skeptic (or religious materialist) simply wants to tell God how long the penalty is to be! Remember, though, in a system of true justice, the offender is not allowed to set his own sentence!"
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amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Then perhaps a reminder from paul would help . What did he tell the churches in his letters
concering sin and error . Paul did not write letters in vain . Our preaches are who preach vains things unto us .
IF we would only go back into bibles for ourselves with ONE DESIRE
and that is to please GOD and not men .
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
There is one who long ago overcame the world . I Suggest we go back into the bible and learn THAT JESUS WELL
and all things the apostels left us in said bible well .
and all things the apostels left us in said bible well .
Jim B
Well-Known Member
What does the second sentence mean in conventional English? "learn THAT JESUS WELL"? And "all things the apostels [sic] left us in said bible well"?
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
It means LEARN THE JESUS in the bible well . LEARN what HE TAUGHT SAID AND DID well .
READ IT FOR YOURSELF and not under the lens of men who always try and twist stuff unto their own demise .
SIMPLY PUT , pick the bible up, without any influences from men and READ IT FOR OL JIM and watch what happens .
Jim B
Well-Known Member
Well said -- again. You're clearly on a roll, amigo. I read the Bible every single day and it always "speaks" to me, both in mind and spirit.
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