Gods true nation, Spiritual Israel.

[Davy]

You failed in your Post #7 = failing to know that the Word was always their King.

Now what kind of attempt at TRYING TO TURN JOHN 1 INTO MAN'S PHILOSOPHY IS THAT? Are you into the Occult? That's what they like to do, all the New Age stuff, take idea from The Bible and turn it into a bunch of mumbo jumbo!

Of course Jesus is The Word, and The Word was with God and is God. All true Christians know that! You mean you're just now finding out about that?

But what's that got to do with Jesus being our KING, and the Israelites wanting a king like the nations around them? Of course they hurt God's feelings by wanting a flesh king.

FAIL = "Until Jesus returns to this earth, there is to be one of the seed of David sitting upon his earthly throne,"

You went off on a rant and failed to SEE the KING of Kings in Heaven

No rant at all, you're the one doing the rant because you are completely Biblically illiterate about Christ's throne He will inherit from His father David, an EARTHLY THRONE.

Because you don't know your Bible, that's why you can't address the Scripture I revealed in Genesis 49:10 that there WILL BE ONE OF JUDAH SITTING UPON THAT THRONE UNTO ALL GENERATIONS UNTIL JESUS RETURNS. That's what it means that the royal sceptre shall not depart from Judah until Shiloh (Jesus) comes, and to Him shall the gathering of the people be. DID YOU NOTE THAT ABOUT THE 'GATHERING' THERE IN GEN.49:10? Even that... is pointing directly to Jesus' future coming and gathering of His saints!

Blind leaders of the blind, is the pulpit you are preaching from.

 

[David in NJ]

Now what kind of attempt at TRYING TO TURN JOHN 1 INTO MAN'S PHILOSOPHY IS THAT? Are you into the Occult? That's what they like to do, all the New Age stuff, take idea from The Bible and turn it into a bunch of mumbo jumbo!

Of course Jesus is The Word, and The Word was with God and is God. All true Christians know that! You mean you're just now finding out about that?

But what's that got to do with Jesus being our KING, and the Israelites wanting a king like the nations around them? Of course they hurt God's feelings by wanting a flesh king.



No rant at all, you're the one doing the rant because you are completely Biblically illiterate about Christ's throne He will inherit from His father David, an EARTHLY THRONE.

Because you don't know your Bible, that's why you can't address the Scripture I revealed in Genesis 49:10 that there WILL BE ONE OF JUDAH SITTING UPON THAT THRONE UNTO ALL GENERATIONS UNTIL JESUS RETURNS. That's what it means that the royal sceptre shall not depart from Judah until Shiloh (Jesus) comes, and to Him shall the gathering of the people be. DID YOU NOTE THAT ABOUT THE 'GATHERING' THERE IN GEN.49:10? Even that... is pointing directly to Jesus' future coming and gathering of His saints!

Blind leaders of the blind, is the pulpit you are preaching from.

LOL x10000

MAJOR FAIL = You said: Genesis 49:10 "that there WILL BE ONE OF JUDAH SITTING UPON THAT THRONE UNTO ALL GENERATIONS UNTIL JESUS RETURNS."

This is a MAJOR FAIL on your part mr.smarty = you need to Read again Genesis 49:10

The scepter shall not depart from Judah,
Nor a lawgiver from between his feet,
Until Shiloh comes;
And to Him shall be the obedience of the people.

ESPECIALLY =
Binding his donkey to the vine,
And his donkey’s colt to the choice vine,

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God made a promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all their descendents, and eternal promise

God in Lev 26 gave them demands they had to follow if they were to be blessed and recieve this promise

He also told them what would happen if they did not obey..

but in no way has God stopped his eternal promise to a people he called his own. Because Lev 26 also states even after defeat. if they repent. He will remember them

the church did not replace Israel in these promises..

They share in salvation which came through the jews and which if they believed they share also. But the particular promise in question. we do not share in.. never have, never will. God will give us our own nation

 

[Davy]

LOL x10000

MAJOR FAIL = You said: Genesis 49:10 "that there WILL BE ONE OF JUDAH SITTING UPON THAT THRONE UNTO ALL GENERATIONS UNTIL JESUS RETURNS."

This is a MAJOR FAIL on your part mr.smarty = you need to Read again Genesis 49:10

The scepter shall not depart from Judah,
Nor a lawgiver from between his feet,
Until Shiloh comes;
And to Him shall be the obedience of the people.

LOL x 1,000,000
You even QUOTED the Genesis 49:10 verse AND STILL DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT IT SAYS, LIKE YOU FAILED TO EVEN READ IT!

Your reasoning is one of the most idiotic things I have seen in a long, long, long time!

Here', I'll break the English down for you:

Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
KJV

"The sceptre shall not depart from Judah" = royal rule shall never leave the tribe of Judah, and a 'condition' is given with that in this same verse with "until".

"nor a lawgiver from between his feet" = the tribe of Judah, i.e., the Jews, are to be keepers of God's law, and in care of His law also... "until"

"until Shiloh come;" = until Jesus returns in the future. That means even now, today, there has to be one born of the tribe of Judah sitting upon that royal throne, on earth!

"and unto him shall the gathering of the people be" = Shiloh (Jesus') future coming.

That verse is EASY... to understand. You simply DENY it, which you've also shown you deny much of God's written Word in favor of some ghost whispering you claimed to have experienced, which I assure you, was not The Holy Ghost, because The Holy Spirit does not go against simple Bible Scripture like this.

 

[David in NJ]

God made a promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and all their descendents, and eternal promise

God in Lev 26 gave them demands they had to follow if they were to be blessed and recieve this promise

He also told them what would happen if they did not obey..

but in no way has God stopped his eternal promise to a people he called his own. Because Lev 26 also states even after defeat. if they repent. He will remember them

the church did not replace Israel in these promises..

They share in salvation which came through the jews and which if they believed they share also. But the particular promise in question. we do not share in.. never have, never will. God will give us our own nation

Key Points to SEE the whole Picture of His Grace concerning Israel

#1. God has not cast away(forever) the people whom HE foreknew = Romans 9:1-2
#2. They are not all Israel who are of Israel = Romans 9:6
#3. Only in Christ is the SEED of Promise = Romans 9:6-9
#4. There is only One Israel of Promise = Romans chapters 9 - 11 , Galatians , Ephesians , 1 Peter , Gospel of John , Acts , Revelation
#5. There is Only One Heavenly Jerusalem who is the Mother of us ALL who are in Christ = Galatians , Revelation

There are TWO Israels = one of the flesh that is earthbound and in bondage with her children = Gospel and Galatians

We who are in CHRIST, Who Alone is the True Israel of God, are all sons of God = Gospel John, Galatians, Ephesians, Romans, 1&2Peter

 

[David in NJ]

LOL x 1,000,000
You even QUOTED the Genesis 49:10 verse AND STILL DON'T HAVE A CLUE WHAT IT SAYS, LIKE YOU FAILED TO EVEN READ IT!

Your reasoning is one of the most idiotic things I have seen in a long, long, long time!

Here', I'll break the English down for you:

Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
KJV

"The sceptre shall not depart from Judah" = royal rule shall never leave the tribe of Judah, and a 'condition' is given with that in this same verse with "until".

"nor a lawgiver from between his feet" = the tribe of Judah, i.e., the Jews, are to be keepers of God's law, and in care of His law also... "until"

"until Shiloh come;" = until Jesus returns in the future. That means even now, today, there has to be one born of the tribe of Judah sitting upon that royal throne, on earth!

"and unto him shall the gathering of the people be" = Shiloh (Jesus') future coming.

That verse is EASY... to understand. You simply DENY it, which you've also shown you deny much of God's written Word in favor of some ghost whispering you claimed to have experienced, which I assure you, was not The Holy Ghost, because The Holy Spirit does not go against simple Bible Scripture like this.

LOL - one day you will wake up and SEE

You keep missing the Truth = SHILOH came already and HE is Coming Again

 

[Davy]

LOL - one day you will wake up and SEE

You keep missing the Truth = SHILOH came already and HE is Coming Again

You haven't even bothered to 'read' what Jacob said at the start... of that Genesis 49 chapter!

Gen 49:1
49 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.
KJV

Did you get that? Can you read English?

Jacob gathered his 12 sons around him to tell them what would befall them in the LAST DAYS!

What "last days"? Our days, near the end of this world!

Does that means ALL 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL WOULD STILL EXIST ON EARTH IN THE 'LAST DAYS'? You bet it does!

Thus the Genesis 49:10 prophecy was NOT for the time of Jesus' 1st coming. You have been LIED to by a tradition of men.

David's throne is an earthly throne, and God promised him there would never fail a man to sit upon that throne. You just don't know where it went to after Jerusalem was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, no doubt because you probably attend one of the old reformation idea type church which denies that throne's continued existence on earth per God's promise to David.

Even Jesus revealed when He inherits David's throne on earth...

Matt 19:28
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
KJV

Matt 25:31
31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
KJV

 

[David in NJ]

You haven't even bothered to 'read' what Jacob said at the start... of that Genesis 49 chapter!

Gen 49:1
49 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.
KJV

Did you get that? Can you read English?

Jacob gathered his 12 sons around him to tell them what would befall them in the LAST DAYS!

What "last days"? Our days, near the end of this world!

Does that means ALL 12 TRIBES OF ISRAEL WOULD STILL EXIST ON EARTH IN THE 'LAST DAYS'? You bet it does!

Thus the Genesis 49:10 prophecy was NOT for the time of Jesus' 1st coming. You have been LIED to by a tradition of men.

David's throne is an earthly throne, and God promised him there would never fail a man to sit upon that throne. You just don't know where it went to after Jerusalem was destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar, no doubt because you probably attend one of the old reformation idea type church which denies that throne's continued existence on earth per God's promise to David.

Even Jesus revealed when He inherits David's throne on earth...

Matt 19:28
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
KJV

Matt 25:31
31 When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory:
KJV

the last days began with JESUS = "It is Finished"

 

[Davy]

the last days began with JESUS = "It is Finished"

That confirms that you are not 'in Christ', because there is still a whole lot... of Bible prophecy yet to come to pass. And Jesus commanded His servants to know it and be watching.

 

[David in NJ]

That confirms that you are not 'in Christ', because there is still a whole lot... of Bible prophecy yet to come to pass. And Jesus commanded His servants to know it and be watching.

LOL x100000000000000

i said they BEGAN = i never said they were completed

 

[David in NJ]

That confirms that you are not 'in Christ', because there is still a whole lot... of Bible prophecy yet to come to pass. And Jesus commanded His servants to know it and be watching.

So according to you a man or woman is not in Christ because, as you say: "there is still a whole lot of Bible prophecy yet to come to pass."

I believe the Truth = Christ's Death & Resurrection was ALL Sufficient for Salvation.

But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

maybe you should stop boasting

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Key Points to SEE the whole Picture of His Grace concerning Israel

#1. God has not cast away(forever) the people whom HE foreknew = Romans 9:1-2
#2. They are not all Israel who are of Israel = Romans 9:6
#3. Only in Christ is the SEED of Promise = Romans 9:6-9
#4. There is only One Israel of Promise = Romans chapters 9 - 11 , Galatians , Ephesians , 1 Peter , Gospel of John , Acts , Revelation
#5. There is Only One Heavenly Jerusalem who is the Mother of us ALL who are in Christ = Galatians , Revelation

There are TWO Israels = one of the flesh that is earthbound and in bondage with her children = Gospel and Galatians

We who are in CHRIST, Who Alone is the True Israel of God, are all sons of God = Gospel John, Galatians, Ephesians, Romans, 1&2Peter

Romans 9 does not refute Gods promise to Israel

Gods promise still stands

as far as salvation, it has always been of grace. whether jew or gentile no matter in the NT or the OT

Romans 11 proves that the natural brance (Israel) is our enemy concerning the gospel today. But beloved concerning the promises. the gifts of God are irrevocable

again, the church did not take Israels place

 

[David in NJ]

Romans 9 does not refute Gods promise to Israel

Gods promise still stands

as far as salvation, it has always been of grace. whether jew or gentile no matter in the NT or the OT

Romans 11 proves that the natural brance (Israel) is our enemy concerning the gospel today. But beloved concerning the promises. the gifts of God are irrevocable

again, the church did not take Israels place

Maybe you missed this - my 1st Point of Emphasis = #1. God has not cast away(forever) the people whom HE foreknew = Romans 9:1-2

My Point #3 - Only in Christ is the SEED of Promise = Romans 9:6-9 this included OT Saints who believed the Word of God = Abraham
Which is Complete Agreement with as you said: "salvation, it has always been of grace. whether jew or gentile no matter in the NT or the OT"

Romans ch11 is ALL True = Every aspect which is my Point #1 God has not cast away(forever) the people whom HE foreknew = Romans 9:1-2
Romans ch9 and ch10 before ch11 is KEY to seeing the Big Picture = natural branches plucked out and wild branches Brought IN

God's Big Picture Conclusion: Romans chapters 9, 10, 11
a.) the Jews of the flesh are not the True Eternal Israel of God = Romans ch9
b.) God is Faithful and has preserved a remnant of natural branches but ONLY thru Christ = ancestry to Abraham cannot save them
c.) When Christ Returns, HE will graft back IN the natural branches into the ONE TREE where the wild branches are Today and Tomorrow.
d.) There is only One Body of Christ, only One Tree of Life where Jew and Gentile can be found Together and NEVER Separated

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Maybe you missed this - my 1st Point of Emphasis = #1. God has not cast away(forever) the people whom HE foreknew = Romans 9:1-2

My Point #3 - Only in Christ is the SEED of Promise = Romans 9:6-9 this included OT Saints who believed the Word of God = Abraham
Which is Complete Agreement with as you said: "salvation, it has always been of grace. whether jew or gentile no matter in the NT or the OT"

Romans ch11 is ALL True = Every aspect which is my Point #1 God has not cast away(forever) the people whom HE foreknew = Romans 9:1-2
Romans ch9 and ch10 before ch11 is KEY to seeing the Big Picture = natural branches plucked out and wild branches Brought IN

God's Big Picture Conclusion: Romans chapters 9, 10, 11
a.) the Jews of the flesh are not the True Eternal Israel of God = Romans ch9
b.) God is Faithful and has preserved a remnant of natural branches but ONLY thru Christ = ancestry to Abraham cannot save them
c.) When Christ Returns, HE will graft back IN the natural branches into the ONE TREE where the wild branches are Today and Tomorrow.
d.) There is only One Body of Christ, only One Tree of Life where Jew and Gentile can be found Together and NEVER Separated

Oh I red it perfectly. The issue is you have to take it in context.

Isreal are the natural branches.. We are the unnatural branches

Israel is blinded in Part. as God promised way back in the OT. He will always keep a remnant

We gentile believers should not be puffed up in pride.. Because one day. ALL ISRAEL (the natural branches) will be saved.


Gods promise to them is irrevocable

He promised them land, Peace in that land. rest from her enemies. If she obeyed.

If she disobeyed, God said he would punish here which he has

But even them, he said if they repent and acknowledge their sin and their fathers sin, He will remember the promise

the church was never promised any of this. They would told even if they obeyed, they would suffer persecution and tribulation.. 2 completely different units

 

[David in NJ]

Oh I red it perfectly. The issue is you have to take it in context.

Isreal are the natural branches.. We are the unnatural branches

Israel is blinded in Part. as God promised way back in the OT. He will always keep a remnant

We gentile believers should not be puffed up in pride.. Because one day. ALL ISRAEL (the natural branches) will be saved.


Gods promise to them is irrevocable

He promised them land, Peace in that land. rest from her enemies. If she obeyed.

If she disobeyed, God said he would punish here which he has

But even them, he said if they repent and acknowledge their sin and their fathers sin, He will remember the promise

the church was never promised any of this. They would told even if they obeyed, they would suffer persecution and tribulation.. 2 completely different units

The Context of Romans chapters 9 - 11 are Loud & Clear = "They are not all Israel who are of Israel".

The Context is that the Jews of the flesh cannot be saved apart from Christ.

The Context is that the Jews of the flesh cannot claim salvation even though they come from Abraham.

The Context is that the SEED of PROMISE only comes thru Grace/Faith in the Gospel = Believing Abraham to Christ

The Context is that the Promises to Abraham are for all who are saved and brought into the Israel of God.

The Conclusion is that the Israel of God only comes from the Promise of God which is Christ
Jew & Gentile are One Body from only One Tree and that Tree is Christ
Christ is the TREE where Believing Jews and Gentiles are Now and Forever will Remain.

There is no separation in the Body of Christ = any such suggestion is heresy and is contrary to the Gospel of Messiah.

ONLY when Christ Returns will HE graft back in the remnant of Jews who survive the Day of Jacobs Trouble.
These Jews will cry out to Christ when He Returns

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those sent to her, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were unwilling! Look, your house is left to you desolate.
For I tell you that you will not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’”

ONLY when Yeshua's Prophecy that HE spoke in Matthew 23:37-39 will all Israel be saved = ONLY then.

They will be grafted back into the ONE TREE = YESHUA HaMoshiach where all Believing Jews & Gentiles currently are Today.

And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

 

[amigo de christo]

Jer 33:17-26
17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;

This is Eternaly Fulfilled in Christ = there will never be any other King sitting on the throne of David other then Yeshua HaMoshiach

EXACTLY . let the KING BE PRAISED .

 

[Davy]

EXACTLY . let the KING BE PRAISED .

It is ONLY true when Jesus RETURNS in the future. As of right now Jesus is sitting on the RIGHT HAND OF THE FATHER'S THRONE, STILL EXPECTING.

Heb 10:12-13
12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
KJV

Sorry, but yal really need to read your Bible instead of listening to preachers that haven't.

 

[Davy]

So there's a good topic, just WHEN will Christ's enemies "be made His footstool"? Someone ought to start a thread on that.

Oh, and I have repeat this...

Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
KJV

Preachers that stay only in the New Testament haven't studied God's promise to David that his throne would continue ON EARTH until He comes Who's right it is (i.e., Lord Jesus), which is essentially what the Genesis 49:10 Scripture is revealing.

Ezek 21:26-27
26 Thus saith the Lord GOD; 'Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.
27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.'
KJV

 

[David in NJ]

So there's a good topic, just WHEN will Christ's enemies "be made His footstool"? Someone ought to start a thread on that.

Oh, and I have repeat this...

Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
KJV

Preachers that stay only in the New Testament haven't studied God's promise to David that his throne would continue ON EARTH until He comes Who's right it is (i.e., Lord Jesus), which is essentially what the Genesis 49:10 Scripture is revealing.

Ezek 21:26-27
26 Thus saith the Lord GOD; 'Remove the diadem, and take off the crown: this shall not be the same: exalt him that is low, and abase him that is high.
27 I will overturn, overturn, overturn, it: and it shall be no more, until he come whose right it is; and I will give it him.'
KJV

Your not SEEING the MESSAGE in Genesis 49:10

 

[amigo de christo]