Gods true nation, Spiritual Israel.

[Hobie]

We find that the children of Israel thought they would be blessed no matter what they did, but they turned from God as a nation to the point that this special blessing was taken from them. Following the Exodus from Egypt, God formally entered into a covenant with the nation of Israel. Israel was to be a kingdom of priests and a holy nation and they were to spread light to all people on the face of the earth. The covenant promises made to ancient Israel were conditional to obedience.
"Now therefore, if ye will obey My voice indeed and keep My covenant, then ye shall be a special treasure unto Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine." Exodus 19:5

It clear that the promises were subject to "if"...
...that the Lord may continue His word which He spake concerning me, saying, "If thy children take heed to their way, to walk before Me in truth with all their heart and with all their soul, He said, there shall not fail thee a man on the throne of Israel." 1 Kings 2:4
We find throughout that the promises were conditional to obedience.
"And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God." Deuteronomy 28:2

Israel did, however, not heed this admonition and became more corrupt than the nations around them. So by the time of Christ they rejected even Him, the promised Messiah and they were warned in Matthew 21:33-45...

33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

You see that the Pharisees 'perceived' or basically saw He was speaking of them, the leaders who had killed many of Gods prophets and now wanted to kill Jesus, the son of God. Note how Jesus states that kingdom of God would be taken from them and given to a nation 'bringing forth the fruits thereof'.
When the Jewish nation rejected the Messiah, the gospel was to go to the Gentiles and all who would believe in the name of Jesus would become the spiritual descendants of Abraham.
"And if ye be Christs, then ye are Abrahams seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:29

And we see in Galatians 6:16 "And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.", here Paul speaks of Christians as the "Israel of God" The kingdom of God and the covenant promises associated with it were to be taken from the Jews and passed on to spiritual Israel, those who would permit Christ to transform them, to change their character .
"Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bearing forth the fruits of it. And whoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken; but on whomever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder." Matthew 21:43,44

In Romans 11:17-24, Paul speaks of the olive tree which represents Israel. The branches (Jews) were broken off because of unbelief and the wild olive shoots (Gentiles) were grafted in to share in the nourishment of the tree. The natural branches could be grafted back into the tree if they accepted the conditions. God is no respecter of nations or individuals. All who turn to Him will be accepted as we see in Acts 10:34-35 "34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."Acts 10:34-35

And we read more..
"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Romans 10:12
"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:26

This new Israel, spiritual Israel, is the inheritor of Gods covenant promises. Those who have accepted Christ have become the chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God. They were chosen to reveal God to the world, and called out to shine the light of truth and prophecy of the end times..

 

[Davy]

We find that the children of Israel thought they would be blessed no matter what they did, but they turned from God as a nation to the point that this special blessing was taken from them. Following the Exodus from Egypt, God formally entered into a covenant with the nation of Israel. Israel was to be a kingdom of priests and a holy nation and they were to spread light to all people on the face of the earth. The covenant promises made to ancient Israel were conditional to obedience.
"Now therefore, if ye will obey My voice indeed and keep My covenant, then ye shall be a special treasure unto Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine." Exodus 19:5

It clear that the promises were subject to "if"...

You need to grow in your study and learning about God's promises to His chosen Israel. You can't do that by only hanging in The New Testament Books.

Jer 33:17-26
17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;

Do you actually know what that above means? It's about God's promise to David that there would always be one of David's seed to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel unto all... generations. Even Genesis 49:10 confirms this. That means even today, there is one of David's seed sitting upon Israel's throne. Now, go figure that out if you can.

18 Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before Me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.

God said that under old covenant times, but now Lord Jesus Christ became the one Perfect Sacrifice forever, and He has fulfilled that with those in Christ being those priests that offer up spiritual sacrifices of 'love' to The Father and The Son.

19 And the word of the LORD came unto Jeremiah, saying,
20 Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break My covenant of the day, and My covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;
21 Then may also My covenant be broken with David My servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, My ministers.
22 As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David My servant, and the Levites that minister unto Me.

God gives a condition that His promises to David and Israel would not come true IF... one could break His covenant with day and night! That means His promises to the seed of Israel is not going to go away.

23 Moreover the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying,
24 Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, "'The two families which the LORD hath chosen, He hath even cast them off?' thus they have despised My people, that they should be no more a nation before them."

Some, the foolish, try to say God has cast off His chosen, and thus they despise His people. But God says...

25 Thus saith the LORD; If My covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;

26 Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David My servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
KJV

 

[Davy]

The old covenant seed of Israel did rebel, and fall into idol worship. And God scattered them among the Gentiles like He warned them in Deuteronomy 4 & 28. But He didn't forget them, which Apostle Paul showed in Romans 11.

God rent the old kingdom of Israel in Solomon's day. The ten northern tribes made up the "kingdom of Israel", and the 3 tribes in the southern land at Jerusalem-Judea became the "kingdom of Judah" (Jews).

God scattered the ten northern tribes of Israel first, never to return as a people. God hedged up their paths so they wouldn't know their way back. They forget Him and fell into Baal idol worship, so He caused them to forget their heritage as part of old Israel, their losing God's feast days, new moons and sabbaths. They literally became as Gentiles living among Gentiles. But God did not lose them. He knows where they are even today.

But the Jews of the "house of Judah", the 3 tribes of Judah, Benjamin, and Levi, they did not forget their heritage as Israel, and have knowledge of God's feast days, sabbaths, and new moons, etc. And that even though He has spiritually blinded the majority of them away from The Gospel so it could go to the Gentiles (Romans 11).

The Gospel was first given to Abraham, along with God's blessings that go with it. Then The Gospel went to his son Isaac, then to Jacob, then to Joseph, and then to Joseph's 2 sons Ephraim and Manasseh where it is still in their care to this day. So it's not only... about the idea of Christ's Church being God's spiritual Israel, it is also about the scattered seed of all 12 tribes that fell under Christ's Church and believed.

There is NO SUCH THING AS CHRIST'S CHURCH MEANING GENTILES ONLY. Christ's Church is made up of both the believing 'seed' of Israel, and believers of the Gentiles, together as one body under Jesus Christ.

Furthermore, those preachers who wrongly teach that ONLY JEWS represent the seed of Israel don't know what they are talking about! The MAJORITY of the seed of old Israel were the TEN NORTHERN TRIBES. They were not known as Jews; they were known as Israel. Only those of the southern "kingdom of Judah" in the southern lands of Judea took that title of 'Jew', which comes from the sole tribe Judah (this per the Jewish historian Josephus - 100 A.D.)

What this means is, many, many of the actual 'seed' of Israel was scattered out of the holy land to where The Gospel would be preached after Jesus was rejected by the Jews in Jerusalem. Where would that be you think brethren? In the CHRISTIAN WEST of course! That... is where lost Israel of the ten tribes went among the Gentiles.

So I have to laugh when the Biblically illiterate try to point to today's Jews to mean all... of the seed of old Israel. Many peoples born under The Gospel in the new lands where God scattered the ten tribes are seed of the old nation of Israel and don't even know it!

 

[Davy]

The early royal Scots in Scotland knew their origins from the seed of Israel...


From the Declaration of Arbroath (written in the year 1320)

"Most Holy Father, we know and from the chronicles and books of the ancients we find
that among other famous nations our own, the Scots, has been graced with widespread
renown. It journeyed from Greater Scythia by way of the Tyrrhenian Sea and the
Pillars of Hercules, and dwelt for a long course of time in Spain among the most savage
peoples, but nowhere could it be subdued by any people, however barbarous. Thence
it came, twelve hundred years after the people of Israel crossed the Red Sea, to its
home in the west where it still lives today. The Britons it first drove out, the Picts it
utterly destroyed, and, even though very often assailed by the Norwegians, the Danes
and the English, it took possession of that home with many victories and untold efforts;
and, as the histories of old time bear witness, they have held it free of all servitude
ever since. In their kingdom there have reigned one hundred and thirteen kings of
their own royal stock, the line unbroken by a single foreigner."

 

[David in NJ]

You need to grow in your study and learning about God's promises to His chosen Israel. You can't do that by only hanging in The New Testament Books.

Jer 33:17-26
17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;

Do you actually know what that above means? It's about God's promise to David that there would always be one of David's seed to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel unto all... generations. Even Genesis 49:10 confirms this. That means even today, there is one of David's seed sitting upon Israel's throne. Now, go figure that out if you can.

18 Neither shall the priests the Levites want a man before Me to offer burnt offerings, and to kindle meat offerings, and to do sacrifice continually.

God said that under old covenant times, but now Lord Jesus Christ became the one Perfect Sacrifice forever, and He has fulfilled that with those in Christ being those priests that offer up spiritual sacrifices of 'love' to The Father and The Son.

19 And the word of the LORD came unto Jeremiah, saying,
20 Thus saith the LORD; If ye can break My covenant of the day, and My covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;
21 Then may also My covenant be broken with David My servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, My ministers.
22 As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David My servant, and the Levites that minister unto Me.

God gives a condition that His promises to David and Israel would not come true IF... one could break His covenant with day and night! That means His promises to the seed of Israel is not going to go away.

23 Moreover the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah, saying,
24 Considerest thou not what this people have spoken, saying, "'The two families which the LORD hath chosen, He hath even cast them off?' thus they have despised My people, that they should be no more a nation before them."

Some, the foolish, try to say God has cast off His chosen, and thus they despise His people. But God says...

25 Thus saith the LORD; If My covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;

26 Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David My servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
KJV

Jer 33:17-26
17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;

This is Eternaly Fulfilled in Christ = there will never be any other King sitting on the throne of David other then Yeshua HaMoshiach

 

[marks]

25 Thus saith the LORD; If My covenant be not with day and night, and if I have not appointed the ordinances of heaven and earth;

26 Then will I cast away the seed of Jacob, and David My servant, so that I will not take any of his seed to be rulers over the seed of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob: for I will cause their captivity to return, and have mercy on them.
KJV

The seed of Jacob, how specific do we need? Day followed night, so I'm thinking that God is still keeping His promise to not cast them away.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

Jer 33:17-26
17 For thus saith the LORD; David shall never want a man to sit upon the throne of the house of Israel;

This is Eternaly Fulfilled in Christ = there will never be any other King sitting on the throne of David other then Yeshua HaMoshiach

Sorry no, Lord Jesus HAS NOT RETURNED YET TODAY.

David's throne is an EARTHLY THRONE. Jesus is sitting on the RIGHT HAND of The Father's throne, still expecting (Hebrews 10:12-13).

Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
KJV

"Shiloh" above is put for Lord Jesus Christ. The "sceptre" is about royal rule, the sceptre given at the coronation ceremony.

Until Jesus returns to this earth, there is to be one of the seed of David sitting upon his earthly throne, and there is. When Jesus returns that is when He will take His throne on earth.

 

[Davy]

The seed of Jacob, how specific do we need? Day followed night, so I'm thinking that God is still keeping His promise to not cast them away.

Much love!

The ten lost tribes of the "house of Israel" (i.e., majority of Jacob's seed) mainly migrated to Asia Minor and Europe among the Gentiles where the birth of the Western Christian Nations took place. Get it?

Haven't you ever wondered why the devils have kept attacking the western Christian nations, and especially the royal houses of Europe?

Are you familiar with the Stone of Scone, the Lia Fial stone?

Stone of Scone will return to London for the coronation of King Charles III

When Elizabeth II was crowned in 1953 at Westminster Abbey, her throne sat above the historic symbol also know as the Stone of Destiny

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[marks]

Are you familiar with the Stone of Scone, the Lia Fial stone?

I am now. It's not really interesting to me. What is your strongest evidence that it actually is Jacob's pillow stone?

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Sorry no, Lord Jesus HAS NOT RETURNED YET TODAY.

David's throne is an EARTHLY THRONE. Jesus is sitting on the RIGHT HAND of The Father's throne, still expecting (Hebrews 10:12-13).

Gen 49:10
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
KJV

"Shiloh" above is put for Lord Jesus Christ. The "sceptre" is about royal rule, the sceptre given at the coronation ceremony.

Until Jesus returns to this earth, there is to be one of the seed of David sitting upon his earthly throne, and there is. When Jesus returns that is when He will take His throne on earth.

You are correct on the OT prophecy of when the LORD returns but you failed on knowing that HE ALWAYS was their King.

But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.” So Samuel prayed to the Lord.
7And the Lord said to Samuel, “Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you,
but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them.
1 Samuel 8:6-7

 

[Davy]

I am now. It's not really interesting to me. What is your strongest evidence that it actually is Jacob's pillow stone?

Much love!

Well, since you associate that phrase "Jacob's pillow stone" with it, then you must already know what I was talking about.

Gen 49:22-24
22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:
23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:
24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel
KJV

When Moses smote 'the rock', it wasn't just a bolder he happened to be standing next to. It was the pillar stone of Jacob. The Israelites carried it with them.

 

[marks]

Well, since you associate that phrase "Jacob's pillow stone" with it, then you must already know what I was talking about.

I've only just read about it. There are a number of legends behind it, but it's easy to surmise where you are going with this.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

I've only just read about it. There are a number of legends behind it, but it's easy to surmise where you are going with this.

Much love!

How would you know where I'm going with it?

And yes, there are many 'false' legends associated with the Jacob's pillar stone. But the link I sent is the 'real' Stone of Scone, or Lia Fial stone (stone of destiny). Queen Elizabeth II was coronated in 1953 sitting upon it when it was in Edward's Chair at Westminster Abbey, London. It was taken from Scotland by Edward I invasion in the 13th century. It had originally been in Ireland where all the ancient kings of Ireland were coronated upon it.

It was stolen by the Scots in 1990's, and retrieved. It was agreed to be kept in Scotland until another crowning and then agreed to move it back to Westminster Abbey for the coronation. Thus Charles III coronation, it is to be brought back to England temporarily for the crowning.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/Coronation_Chair_with_Stone_of_Scone%2C_Westminster_Abbey_%283611549960%29.jpg

 

[marks]

How would you know where I'm going with it?

As I said, I surmised it. Was I correct?

Much love!

 

[Davy]

As I said, I surmised it. Was I correct?

Much love!

Doesn't matter what you believe about it.


From the Declaration of Arbroath (written in the year 1320)
"Most Holy Father, we know and from the chronicles and books of the ancients we find
that among other famous nations our own, the Scots, has been graced with widespread
renown. It journeyed from Greater Scythia by way of the Tyrrhenian Sea and the
Pillars of Hercules, and dwelt for a long course of time in Spain among the most savage
peoples, but nowhere could it be subdued by any people, however barbarous. Thence
it came, twelve hundred years after the people of Israel crossed the Red Sea, to its
home in the west where it still lives today. The Britons it first drove out, the Picts it
utterly destroyed, and, even though very often assailed by the Norwegians, the Danes
and the English, it took possession of that home with many victories and untold efforts;
and, as the histories of old time bear witness, they have held it free of all servitude
ever since. In their kingdom there have reigned one hundred and thirteen kings of
their own royal stock, the line unbroken by a single foreigner."

 

[marks]

Doesn't matter what you believe about it.

That's good, because I don't have any beliefs about it. Relics aren't my thing.

Much love!

 

[Davy]

That's good, because I don't have any beliefs about it. Relics aren't my thing.

Much love!

That's good because it only matters to those with eyes to see, and ears to hear.

 

[Davy]

You are correct on the OT prophecy of when the LORD returns but you failed on knowing that HE ALWAYS was their King.

But the thing displeased Samuel when they said, “Give us a king to judge us.” So Samuel prayed to the Lord.
7And the Lord said to Samuel, “Heed the voice of the people in all that they say to you; for they have not rejected you,
but they have rejected Me, that I should not reign over them.
1 Samuel 8:6-7

Failed on knowing that Jesus was always their King??

I failed at nothing, as I recognize that before Jesus was born through woman's womb, Jesus was the Melchizedek who met Abraham and offered him "bread and wine".

Thus The Gospel was known by the Old Testament patriarchs starting with Abraham.

 

[Davy]

The seed of Jacob, how specific do we need? Day followed night, so I'm thinking that God is still keeping His promise to not cast them away.

Much love!

Not only did God NOT cast the ten lost tribes away, He used them in the new lands where He scattered them! And that is another reason why Jesus said He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel. (the term "house of Israel" was used only for the ten northern tribes after God split old Israel in 1 Kings 11).

 

[David in NJ]

Failed on knowing that Jesus was always their King??

I failed at nothing, as I recognize that before Jesus was born through woman's womb, Jesus was the Melchizedek who met Abraham and offered him "bread and wine".

Thus The Gospel was known by the Old Testament patriarchs starting with Abraham.

You failed in your Post #7 = failing to know that the Word was always their King.

FAIL = "Until Jesus returns to this earth, there is to be one of the seed of David sitting upon his earthly throne,"

You went off on a rant and failed to SEE the KING of Kings in Heaven

Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war. 12He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood,c and His name is The Word of God.

14The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. 15And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter.d He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh:

KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.