Gods true nation, Spiritual Israel.

[Davy]

Your not SEEING the MESSAGE in Genesis 49:10

You got it backwards, I am... 'seeing' God's Message in Genesis 49:10 about Judah, the king tribe. You are only showing your anti-Jewish bias.

 

[David in NJ]

You got it backwards, I am... 'seeing' God's Message in Genesis 49:10 about Judah, the king tribe. You are only showing your anti-Jewish bias.'

be careful of being ignorant my friend = my Spiritual Mother is Jewish and my Heritage is Jewish

YES INDEED Genesis 49:10 speaks of the Hebrew Lineage of the Tribe of Judah and the Messiah

 

[Ronald Nolette]

We find that the children of Israel thought they would be blessed no matter what they did, but they turned from God as a nation to the point that this special blessing was taken from them. Following the Exodus from Egypt, God formally entered into a covenant with the nation of Israel. Israel was to be a kingdom of priests and a holy nation and they were to spread light to all people on the face of the earth. The covenant promises made to ancient Israel were conditional to obedience.
"Now therefore, if ye will obey My voice indeed and keep My covenant, then ye shall be a special treasure unto Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine." Exodus 19:5

It clear that the promises were subject to "if"...
...that the Lord may continue His word which He spake concerning me, saying, "If thy children take heed to their way, to walk before Me in truth with all their heart and with all their soul, He said, there shall not fail thee a man on the throne of Israel." 1 Kings 2:4
We find throughout that the promises were conditional to obedience.
"And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God." Deuteronomy 28:2

Israel did, however, not heed this admonition and became more corrupt than the nations around them. So by the time of Christ they rejected even Him, the promised Messiah and they were warned in Matthew 21:33-45...

33 Hear another parable: There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
34 And when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
35 And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
36 Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
37 But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son.
38 But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance.
39 And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
40 When the lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
41 They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected, the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.
44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
45 And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they perceived that he spake of them.

You see that the Pharisees 'perceived' or basically saw He was speaking of them, the leaders who had killed many of Gods prophets and now wanted to kill Jesus, the son of God. Note how Jesus states that kingdom of God would be taken from them and given to a nation 'bringing forth the fruits thereof'.
When the Jewish nation rejected the Messiah, the gospel was to go to the Gentiles and all who would believe in the name of Jesus would become the spiritual descendants of Abraham.
"And if ye be Christs, then ye are Abrahams seed, and heirs according to the promise." Galatians 3:29

And we see in Galatians 6:16 "And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.", here Paul speaks of Christians as the "Israel of God" The kingdom of God and the covenant promises associated with it were to be taken from the Jews and passed on to spiritual Israel, those who would permit Christ to transform them, to change their character .
"Therefore I say to you, the kingdom of God shall be taken from you and given to a nation bearing forth the fruits of it. And whoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken; but on whomever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder." Matthew 21:43,44

In Romans 11:17-24, Paul speaks of the olive tree which represents Israel. The branches (Jews) were broken off because of unbelief and the wild olive shoots (Gentiles) were grafted in to share in the nourishment of the tree. The natural branches could be grafted back into the tree if they accepted the conditions. God is no respecter of nations or individuals. All who turn to Him will be accepted as we see in Acts 10:34-35 "34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him."Acts 10:34-35

And we read more..
"For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Romans 10:12
"For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:26

This new Israel, spiritual Israel, is the inheritor of Gods covenant promises. Those who have accepted Christ have become the chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people belonging to God. They were chosen to reveal God to the world, and called out to shine the light of truth and prophecy of the end times..

YOu will sadly and with great dismay find out how wrong you have been in reinterpreting the word of God to call the church spiritual Israel.

 

[David in NJ]

YOu will sadly and with great dismay find out how wrong you have been in reinterpreting the word of God to call the church spiritual Israel.

Israel of the flesh is in bondage to sin = they are spiritually dead along with all unbelieving Gentiles

God calls us His Church the one True Spiritual Israel

Have you never read Gospel of John chapter 1, Acts, 1 Peter , Romans , Galatians

There is ONLY One TREE where BOTH Jew & Gentile are grafted in by GRACE = Romans chapters 9 - 11

 

[David in NJ]

YOu will sadly and with great dismay find out how wrong you have been in reinterpreting the word of God to call the church spiritual Israel.

This is what the LORD said to the nation of Israel according to the flesh - Matthew 23:37-39

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Israel of the flesh is in bondage to sin = they are dead along with all unbelieving Gentiles

God calls us His Church the one True Spiritual Israel

Have you never read Gospel of John chapter 1, Acts, 1 Peter , Romans , Galatians

There is ONLY One TREE where BOTH Jew & Gentile are grafted in by GRACE = Romans chapters 9 - 11

Yes Israel as a nation has been temproarily cast off, for the OT prophesied calling out of the gentiles, a people for His name.

I have read teh NT hundreds of times over my 49 years walking with the Lord.

Yes there is only one tree- teh place of blessing. and do not ever forget that at some point in the future, god is going to save every single Jew that is alive on the earth.

Zech. 13:

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Read Romans 11 Carefully. Paul confirms that the gifts to Israel, the covenants God made to Israel, the promises God made to Israel are without repentance. He will perform all He promised to Israel. Every where in the OT when it says "It shall come to pass", it shall come to pass.

The most important being this one:

Jeremiah 31:31-34

King James Version

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

This is what the LORD said to the nation of Israel according to the flesh - Matthew 23:37-39

O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing! See! Your house is left to you desolate; for I say to you, you shall see Me no more till you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

Now if you would only open your eyes when you read!

Jerusalem will not see Jesus anymore. UNTIL- not if or maybe! This UNTIL will happen in the future.Words matter! that is how we can communicate with intelligence and do not have to redefine things to suit ourselves.

 

[David in NJ]

Yes Israel as a nation has been temproarily cast off, for the OT prophesied calling out of the gentiles, a people for His name.

I have read teh NT hundreds of times over my 49 years walking with the Lord.

Yes there is only one tree- teh place of blessing. and do not ever forget that at some point in the future, god is going to save every single Jew that is alive on the earth.

Zech. 13:

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Read Romans 11 Carefully. Paul confirms that the gifts to Israel, the covenants God made to Israel, the promises God made to Israel are without repentance. He will perform all He promised to Israel. Every where in the OT when it says "It shall come to pass", it shall come to pass.

The most important being this one:

Jeremiah 31:31-34​

​

King James Version​

​

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

i ABSOLUTELY AGREE here with these scriptures = justs as i said in my Post = Matthew 23:36-39

 

[David in NJ]

Now if you would only open your eyes when you read!

Jerusalem will not see Jesus anymore. UNTIL- not if or maybe! This UNTIL will happen in the future.Words matter! that is how we can communicate with intelligence and do not have to redefine things to suit ourselves.

LOL x100

WHy would you say i do not see from the very scripture i posted for you to SEE

Of course it will happen in the FUTURE = ONLY when HE Returns

 

[David in NJ]

Yes Israel as a nation has been temproarily cast off, for the OT prophesied calling out of the gentiles, a people for His name.

I have read teh NT hundreds of times over my 49 years walking with the Lord.

Yes there is only one tree- teh place of blessing. and do not ever forget that at some point in the future, god is going to save every single Jew that is alive on the earth.

Zech. 13:

8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.

Read Romans 11 Carefully. Paul confirms that the gifts to Israel, the covenants God made to Israel, the promises God made to Israel are without repentance. He will perform all He promised to Israel. Every where in the OT when it says "It shall come to pass", it shall come to pass.

The most important being this one:

Jeremiah 31:31-34​

​

King James Version​

​

​

31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

i hope you know that Jerimiah 31:31-34 has been fulfilled and is continuing

 

[Ronald Nolette]

LOL x100

WHy would you say i do not see from the very scripture i posted for you to SEE

Of course it will happen in the FUTURE = ONLY when HE Returns

It happens 3 days before His return. It is the very fact that teh veil is removed from teh eyes of Israel, they receive Jesus as a whole nation and cry out "blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord" that causes Jesus to return.

Hosea 6

King James Version

​

6 Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

this is for Israel and not the church.

 

[David in NJ]

It happens 3 days before His return. It is the very fact that teh veil is removed from teh eyes of Israel, they receive Jesus as a whole nation and cry out "blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord" that causes Jesus to return.

Hosea 6​

​

King James Version​

​

​

6 Come, and let us return unto the Lord: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up.
2 After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.

this is for Israel and not the church.

Excellent Post - TY

You said: "this is for Israel and not the church."

the LORD Jesus says = it is for BOTH = Matthew 23:37-39 and Romans 11:25-27

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

 

[Ronald Nolette]

i hope you know that Jerimiah 31:31-34 has been fulfilled and is continuing

Take each verse and show its fulfilment in history and time.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Excellent Post - TY

You said: "this is for Israel and not the church."

the LORD Jesus says = it is for BOTH = Matthew 23:37-39 and Romans 11:25-27

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

How you can get the church out of these specific Jewish prophesies is beyond me. One can only do it be redefining what Jesus and Paul said.

 

[David in NJ]

How you can get the church out of these specific Jewish prophesies is beyond me. One can only do it be redefining what Jesus and Paul said.

Catholicism and all the religions and denominations that came from her are the ones who "redefined" the words of Jesus and the Apostles.

Have you redefined Romans chapters 9-11 ?

What is the Conclusion given by the Apostle Paul in Romans chapter 11 concerning the Two Israels = flesh vs Spirit.

Where is the Church at the time and fulfillment of Matthew 23:37-39? = Have you redefined the very words of Jesus in Matthew ch24???

 

[Davy]

be careful of being ignorant my friend = my Spiritual Mother is Jewish and my Heritage is Jewish

YES INDEED Genesis 49:10 speaks of the Hebrew Lineage of the Tribe of Judah and the Messiah

Then you OUGHT to understand that Genesis 49:10 verse about JUDAH keeping the royal sceptre, on earth, all the way until Jesus returns to take it, which is what that verse is revealing. It is also... revealing that Judah would be the main keepers of God's laws all the way until Shiloh (Jesus) comes, which means the law among the Christian nations especially.

Thus David's throne is still here on earth, with Jesus inheriting it still 'expecting' until His enemies are made His footstool, like God's Word says. That throne is to be 'overturned' 3 times per Ezekiel 21. The first 'overturn' was in Jeremiah's day when Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon ended Zedekiah, king of Judah's reign in Jerusalem. Jeremiah escaped with the "king's daughters", as all of Zedekiah's son heirs were killed by Nebuchadnezzar. And God said He made Jeremiah a prophet to the nations, to pluck up and throw down, but also to build and plant.

Jer 31:27-28
27 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.

28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.
KJV

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Catholicism and all the religions and denominations that came from her are the ones who "redefined" the words of Jesus and the Apostles.

Have you redefined Romans chapters 9-11 ?

What is the Conclusion given by the Apostle Paul in Romans chapter 11 concerning the Two Israels = flesh vs Spirit.

Where is the Church at the time and fulfillment of Matthew 23:37-39? = Have you redefined the very words of Jesus in Matthew ch24???

Not at all! So what denomination are you in that has redefined the words of Jesus?

Romans 9-11 are all about god fulfilling His promises to Israel.

The conclusion is that Jews in teh church age who live and die without Christ are forever lost. but in the tribulation period- three days before Jesus return to be exact, After 2/3 of all Jews have been killed on the earth, the remaining 1/3 which constitutes all Jews on the earth shall be saved! These people are both physical and spiritual Israel!

 

[David in NJ]

Then you OUGHT to understand that Genesis 49:10 verse about JUDAH keeping the royal sceptre, on earth, all the way until Jesus returns to take it, which is what that verse is revealing. It is also... revealing that Judah would be the main keepers of God's laws all the way until Shiloh (Jesus) comes, which means the law among the Christian nations especially.

Thus David's throne is still here on earth, with Jesus inheriting it still 'expecting' until His enemies are made His footstool, like God's Word says. That throne is to be 'overturned' 3 times per Ezekiel 21. The first 'overturn' was in Jeremiah's day when Nebuchadnezzar, king of Babylon ended Zedekiah, king of Judah's reign in Jerusalem. Jeremiah escaped with the "king's daughters", as all of Zedekiah's son heirs were killed by Nebuchadnezzar. And God said He made Jeremiah a prophet to the nations, to pluck up and throw down, but also to build and plant.

Jer 31:27-28
27 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man, and with the seed of beast.

28 And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD.
KJV

God did not create a vacuum to exist between the Israel that HE established by Grace beginning with Abraham and that which was confirmed in Christ.

Genesis 49:8-12
Judah, you are he whom your brothers shall praise;
Your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies;
Your father’s children shall bow down before you.
Judah is a lion’s whelp;
From the prey, my son, you have gone up.
He bows down, he lies down as a lion;
And as a lion, who shall rouse him?
The scepter shall not depart from Judah,
Nor a lawgiver from between his feet,
Until Shiloh comes;
And to Him shall be the obedience of the people.
Binding his donkey to the vine,
And his donkey’s colt to the choice vine,
He washed his garments in wine,
And his clothes in the blood of grapes.
His eyes are darker than wine,
And his teeth whiter than milk.

You still do not SEE the WHOLE Picture here.

 

[David in NJ]

Not at all! So what denomination are you in that has redefined the words of Jesus?

Romans 9-11 are all about god fulfilling His promises to Israel.

The conclusion is that Jews in teh church age who live and die without Christ are forever lost. but in the tribulation period- three days before Jesus return to be exact, After 2/3 of all Jews have been killed on the earth, the remaining 1/3 which constitutes all Jews on the earth shall be saved! These people are both physical and spiritual Israel!

i notice that you left out the Eternal Israel that Paul clearly defined beginning in chapter 9.

The HOLY SPIRIT thru Apostle Paul gave the True Definition which you have excluded.................that's called redefined

 

[Davy]

God did not create a vacuum to exist between the Israel that HE established by Grace beginning with Abraham and that which was confirmed in Christ.

Genesis 49:8-12
Judah, you are he whom your brothers shall praise;
Your hand shall be on the neck of your enemies;
Your father’s children shall bow down before you.
Judah is a lion’s whelp;
From the prey, my son, you have gone up.
He bows down, he lies down as a lion;
And as a lion, who shall rouse him?
The scepter shall not depart from Judah,
Nor a lawgiver from between his feet,
Until Shiloh comes;
And to Him shall be the obedience of the people.
Binding his donkey to the vine,
And his donkey’s colt to the choice vine,
He washed his garments in wine,
And his clothes in the blood of grapes.
His eyes are darker than wine,
And his teeth whiter than milk.

You still do not SEE the WHOLE Picture here.

I am... seeing the whole picture, but you are not.

After the small remnant of the "house of Judah" at Judea-Jerusalem rejected Jesus Christ by crucifying Him, The Gospel then went to the Gentiles.

This is why Jesus said that He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the "house of Israel".

After the split of the old nation of Israel in the days of Solomon's son Rehoboam, God scattered the ten northern tribes out of the holy land never to return. Only a small remnant of the ten tribes chose to join with Judah in the southern lands at Judea.

In Romans 9, Apostle Paul speaking to Roman Gentile believers on Christ, quoted from the Book of Hosea to them. What is unique about that is,... the Book of Hosea was written to the ten tribe "house of Israel" of how God was getting ready to end their northern "kingdom of Israel" and scatter them among the Gentiles, and let them have their full strength of idol Baal worship that they left Him for. But then in Hosea, He gave prophecies about the ten tribes of how they later would wind up back unto Him, and would no more call Him 'Baali', but Ishi.

And in final, the "house of Israel" would be called the children of the living God.

Paul quoted that to Gentiles in Christ, so what's up with that? It's simple, for those who have studied their Old Testament prophecy. The Gentiles in Christ are to be INCLUDED among believing Israel when Jesus returns. And what Paul reveals by quoting from Hosea to Roman Gentiles is a POINTER to where many of the ten tribed "house of Israel" would wind up, and receive The Gospel along with those Gentiles.

This is what FULFILLED the Genesis 35 and 48 prophecies about the "company of nations" and "multitude of nations", by the history of the Western Christian Nations that sprang forth like wildfire after Jesus was rejected in Jerusalem. It involved the "multitude of nations" that Ephraim's seed was to become, and also his brother Manasseh who was to become great. Joseph's two sons is where God's Birthright finally wound upon, and is still with Joseph's two sons today.

Gen 48:14-20
14 And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim's head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh's head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.

15 And he blessed Joseph, and said, 'God, before whom my fathers Abraham and Isaac did walk, the God Which fed me all my life long unto this day,

16 The Angel which redeemed me from all evil, bless the lads; and let my name be named on them, and the name of my fathers Abraham and Isaac; and let them grow into a multitude in the midst of the earth.'

17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father's hand, to remove it from Ephraim's head unto Manasseh's head.

18 And Joseph said unto his father, 'Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.'

19 And his father refused, and said, 'I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.'

20 And he blessed them that day, saying, 'In thee shall Israel bless, saying, 'God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh': and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.
KJV

And you try to say l'm... the one who doesn't see the whole picture? That is just your vain attempt to try... and lord it over others, but not me, doesn't work with me, because I'm actually familiar with what God's Word says and teaches.