Post your favorite UR verse for inspection
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St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Let's try a different translation.
Matt. 25:41, 46 Young's Literal Translation
Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed,
to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers;
46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'
Steven said, "living by faith is a result, not a cause."
No one can reason with someone who sees faith in this fashion.
This is messed up, Steven! Faith is the means by which we receive all things from God.
If you can't understand this, no wonder you're in this mess.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Not sure how you could disagree with what I wrote.
Sure, we receive from God by faith, but "living by faith" is an ongoing process, not a single event.
Therefore, "living by faith is a result, not a cause."
Living by faith is believing in the finished work of Christ.
Faith is the substance that we are granted life through Christ.
Faith is not some general thing, it is always and without doubt a specific faith.
@SteVen, you have got to understand this! The only faith possible is that in the finished work of Christ on the Cross and His resurrection.
Any and everything where I could possibly place faith is always in His finished work. Its the only means in which we receive favor from God.
If I say I have faith that God will provide me with a good job, that faith is based on His finished work that God will provide for me.
And so it is with anything where I place faith!
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
You seem to be conflating faith with THE faith, or A faith.
I would say believing in the finished work of Christ is the beginning point of living by faith.
A person could certainly believe in the finished work of Christ WITHOUT actually living by faith. IMHO
Matthew, can you explain to us why Paul said there is one faith?
Eph. 4:5-6
"One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all."
Anything you could possibly have faith in concerning God, is based on "The Faith."
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
If that is helpful for you, then that is how you should operate. I see it differently.
To me, a living faith is a RESULT of believing faith. The evidence of the atonement in a transformed life.
I can trust God to care for me based on my life experiences of "living faith", not on the basis of "believing faith".
We have a song lyric at church that says something like...
"I don't know what you're doing, but I know what you've done..."
The track record of a living faith builds trust. IMHO
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
I respectfully disagree.
Who's definition of "The Faith" are we using?
You can say, "the Bible", but we still have to contend with multiply interpretations of what that means.
How can you have a "living faith" without "the faith?"
There is only one faith, there are not 2 or 3.
All faith is in the finished work of Christ, or there is no faith at all.
One can't say, I have faith in Christ, but my faith is this or that is a different faith.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
My turn to play context police. - LOL
Paul didn't say "one faith." (full stop) See below.
He wrote, "one Lord, one faith, one baptism..."
Do you only believe in one baptism, as well?
No baptism with the Holy Spirit? (Mark 1:7-8; Acts 1:5)
Ephesians 4:4-6 NIV
There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
Of course there is only one baptism! It's the baptism into Christ that Paul so often spoke of. It's the spiritual baptism into Christ.
That is the only baptism! Water baptism is the literal reenactment of the only spiritual baptism.
The only one who says baptized with the Holy Spirit is John the Baptist, and he was speaking of the spiritual baptism that Paul taught! He was prophesying of the Initial entrance of the Holy Spirit coming to dwell in man at Pentecost.
The phrase "baptism of the Holy Spirit that the Pentecostals have falsely named is not a baptism, it is a filling and always referred to in this manner.
Before the Pentecostals came along with "the baptism in the Holy Spirit, all theologians agreed that the baptism of the Holy Spirit was that which Paul taught, the spiritual baptism that takes place at the moment of believing where the Holy spirit enters man and creates a new creature in Christ.
So yes, there is only one baptism, just as Paul said!
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
If we asked our Catholic brothers and sisters what "the faith" is, wouldn't their answer differ from ours?
Same with Sabbatarians that would point to the law we are to keep. Many other examples available.
Or Charismatic/Pentecostals that would point to the operation of spiritual gifts as the faith.
How hard is this, Steven? The only faith there is, which God will accept is faith in the finished work of Christ.
Everything we receive from God is based on this one faith.
There is no other, it's the only one!
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
Next.
Like a refiner’s fire, or a launderer’s soap. Purification, cleansing and restoration.
Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.
Like a refiner’s fire, or a launderer’s soap. Purification, cleansing and restoration.
Malachi 3:2
But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner’s fire or a launderer’s soap.
St. SteVen
Well-Known Member
A Cessationist too? Oh my. That's what I assumed.
Just didn't think you would deny the Baptism with the Holy Spirit even in Cessationist terms. Hard core.
Anyway, I disagree completely, but that would take a topic of its own to rebut. I have questions for you.
Topic: Baptism with the Holy Spirit questions for inspection - LOL
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