She? I to, like you, are a fisherman. But you do not need fished. Why would you think I would need to be fished? We are both brothers in Christ Jesus. Just because something has not been revealed to you yet, does not mean it will not. Does not The Lord have a season for all things.
Sanctification is not a Process
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Wrangler
Well-Known Member
GRACE ambassador
Well-Known Member
op: sanctification NOT a process?
So, the process of "works salvation" [ instead of 'Grace Through faith' ] for God's
FREE Gift Of Eternal Life Is the Real "issue" here?:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+
God's Eternal Assurance
I, for one, am Not willing to do so...
So, the process of "works salvation" [ instead of 'Grace Through faith' ] for God's
FREE Gift Of Eternal Life Is the Real "issue" here?:
Biblically, then, one would have to Deny 144 Plain And Clear Scriptures!:
God's OPERATION On All HIS New-born babes In CHRIST
+
God's Eternal Assurance
I, for one, am Not willing to do so...
Use Scripture.I have only tried to do that hundreds of times. The problem doesn't lie in my communication skills...but in your ability to understand something fully out of your grasp.
Much love!
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Exactly and it defines spiritual as do the Greek lexicons. I’m still waiting for him to define a spiritual body .
Johann
Well-Known Member
Transliteration: hagiasmon
Morphology: N-AMS
Noun - Accusative Masculine Singular
Strong's no.: G38 (ἁγιασμός)
Meaning: The process of making or becoming holy, set apart, sanctification, holiness, consecration.
ἁγιασμὸς
Transliteration: hagiasmos
Morphology: N-NMS
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's no.: G38 (ἁγιασμός)
Meaning: The process of making or becoming holy, set apart, sanctification, holiness, consecration.
Transliteration: hagiasmō
Morphology: N-DMS
Noun - Dative Masculine Singular
Strong's no.: G38 (ἁγιασμός)
Meaning: The process of making or becoming holy, set apart, sanctification, holiness, consecration.
Sanctification
Involves more than a mere moral reformation of character, brought about by the power of the truth: it is the work of the Holy Spirit bringing the whole nature more and more under the influences of the new gracious principles implanted in the soul in regeneration. In other words, sanctification is the carrying on to perfection the work begun in regeneration, and it extends to the whole man (Rom_6:13; 2Co_4:6; Col_3:10; 1Jn_4:7; 1Co_6:19). It is the special office of the Holy Spirit in the plan of redemption to carry on this work (1Co_6:11; 2Th_2:13).
But, if you don't hold to ongoing sanctification--that should not bring in a division between you and me.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Maybe if you start using Scriptures and allow the Scriptures to "talk"--I might see something here?
Eternally Grateful
Well-Known Member
if that was true. You would not say the things you say.
in fact I believe we all know you are just saying this because A mod called you out..
Before you would say it is all about our walk.. and walking on Zion. etc etc
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Notice until I mentioned those passages the other day that was never affirmed. Yet the Resurrection that gives life and power is being left behind. If Christ is not Rraised form the dead ( Resurrected ) as Paul said in 1 Cor 15 ones faith is in vain and you are still dead in your sins.
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Johann
Well-Known Member
Amen brother--allow me to quote the passage.
1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
1Co 15:5 And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve:
1Co 15:6 After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.
1Co 15:7 After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles.
15:8 And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time.
1Co 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.
1Co 15:10 But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I laboured more abundantly than they all: yet not I, but the grace of God which was with me.
Epi is losing this debate--not quoting Scriptures.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Its not even a debate its the Truth of Scripture not lining up with his ideas. The debate is not with us its with Gods word.
Johann
Well-Known Member
Brother, we are going to give an account of every idle, useless, inoperative word we have spoken, in word, thought and deed--and there is a curse upon those who proclaim a scripture contrary of that which we have received--
-- the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
No Other Gospel
Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Now these false teachers that came in, one of the first things they always sought to do was to discredit Paul. This is a typical ploy of false teachers. If you have been studying and learning under a minister, a man of God, they'll come in and their first thing is to try to discredit the one that you have been studying under or the one that you were converted under. Now it seems that these false teachers never really seek to evangelize. But they're always trying to go into those who believe and change their beliefs.
Chuck.
3) "Unto another gospel," (eis heteron euangellion)"with reference to, or with regard toward another kind (of) gospel." The (Gk. heteros) "another" gospel distinguishes it as a spurious, putrid one, in contrast and conflict with the gospel of Christ, Rom_1:16; 1Co_15:1-3.
Any gospel that mingles law, (ceremonials and rituals) with grace, as a means of acquiring or retaining justification, sanctification, or salvation is "another gospel." The proclaimer (Preacher) of such is still under the curse (anathema) of God! Gal_1:8-9. Ceremonials and rituals and pictorial ordinances of Christ no more impart grace in obtaining or retaining salvation than did those of the Law. Those who preach that they to are under God's anathema of preaching "another gospel today," by perverting the gospel of Christ, Act_10:43; 2Jn_1:8-11; Rom_4:5; Eph_2:8-9; Rom_11:6.
God forbid we should bring a curse upon us in the preaching of a heteros gospel.
Mar_6:6; Joh_9:30
: Gal_3:1-5, Gal_4:9-15, Gal_5:4, Gal_5:7; Psa_106:13; Isa_29:13; Jer_2:12-13
Gal_5:8; 1Co_4:15; 2Th_2:14; 2Ti_1:9; 1Pe_1:15; 2Pe_1:3
Act_15:11; Rom_5:2; 1Ti_1:14; 2Ti_2:1; Rev_22:21
Rom_10:3; 2Co_11:4
--and let my philosophizing be few--
J.
ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
I agree but my point was his debate is not with us its with Scripture since the beliefs do not line up with them. The more we talk about scripture with them the more the truth is revealed. Only God through His spirit can convict someone of their errors. I cannot begin to tell you how blinded one can be when they are protecting their beliefs and reading them into the bible. I did it for years as a Calvinist. It can happen to anyone. No one is immune from believing in false doctrines.
Very true. Once people latch on to false doctrines, they would rather die than give them up and go to the truth. It is all a matter of pride. Giving up something false means acknowledging that you were deceived in the first place. This is exactly why most Calvinists and JWs (or any other cults) refuse to abandon their false teachings. Instead they double down on them.
Johann
Well-Known Member
I concur with your post/answer--correct, this debate is not with us--but with those who deliberately and willfully, knowingly, twist and pervert the Scriptures--as for no one is immune from believing in false doctrines, it depends, with what lenses are we reading the Scriptures and we all have our biases.
I was indoctrinated with Calvinism but since then rejected it--although you may found sound nuggets even there.
I made an appeal to a couple of brothers to review Bob Utley's notes and special topics and his hermeneutical approach to the Scriptures--to keep me on the straight and narrow dereck--one brother gave me a positive response--one.
At least he made the time and the effort to get me a review on him, since I can't be online all the time--thank you Jim--so @Christophany from now on I will be very selective to whom I hold myself accountable to online and to whom I'm posting to.
Listening to Sam Shamoun the whole day.
Shalom to you and family
J.
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ChristisGod
Well-Known Member
Wrangler
Well-Known Member
This reminds me of a quote from Mark Twain. It is easier to fool people than convince them that they have been fooled.
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Choir Loft
Hello to the one in the choir up there or just up there spouting off....
I just want to share my view on only one passage you raised in your post here, not to engulf you with many...Romans 3:11
Paul speaks of Psalms 14:2 as his backdrop into this subject...
Paul was strongly conveying to his audience that all Jews and non-Jews are under the curse of sin and they lived their lives like they did not understand the gravity of it or did not care, or obey the Law and the priests was good enough.
No one then understood their sinful state and what this means to their life, as none looked for God to rectify this deadly disease they have call sin. They have no understanding of spiritual things and zero spiritual knowledge of God. And more importantly they did not know how to rectify their sinful nature, their way to salvation. They thought they have no problem. No knowledge of Christ and the gospel. And therefore no one sought God because being carnal, natural and unspiritual did not realize they needed a new regenerated heart.
And finally in verse 20 Paul say the Law does not make us righteous before God. We must realize we are sinful in the flesh and God demands justice along with mercy. So we should now look to God for this mercy and become his righteousness through Christ - Christ himself our Savior is now our righteousness acceptable to Father.
And every genuine believer already knows and experiences this righteousness today this..amen.
///
Yes I agree with you, the passage of Patriot Act did a number on this country for sure.. a permanent stain and a real move to totalitarianism.
Two points. (and then some more....)
First, the corrupt post-modern church teaches that SIN is a disease. It isn't. SIN is offense against God. SIN is no more a disease than bank robbery is a disease or battlefield killing is a disease. SIN is what is DONE against the LAW of the Most High. In that we have all committed violation of God's LAW we are SINNERS. SIN is more of a verdict than a sickness, for the consequence of the verdict is imprisonment and death. The consequence of an illness is a doctor's bill.
Second, I continually hear arguments about the LAW from people who KNOW IT NOT. Everyone who's heard the reiterations of some backwater Biblically illiterate preacher echos the same thing. The LAW cannot save. WHY? Nobody seems to know, but they wail and rant and parrot empty phrases about licentious grace even as they seek to justify their own SIN.
Again - everyone parrots scripture, as satan did to Jesus, to justify their ignorance or their willful desire to justify their guilt.
Why doesn't the LAW save? It doesn't save because it says it doesn't save. Can we move past this point? Apparently not.
Everyone wants to justify their position - right or wrong. Nobody knows the LAW. Everybody hates the very mention of it. Even a large number of Jews have rejected it (Torah - the 1st 5 books of the Bible known as the LAW). Did you know that? Church types can reject the LAW and tell themselves they've got licentious grace to justify every filthy thing they touch. Jews have their tradition - similar to the church's pagan traditions I may add.
Matthew 24:12 is one of many scriptures that predict the rise of lawLESSness in the last days. This doesn't refer to crime and violence although such things are predicted as well. It speaks to a general DISREGARD and REJECTION of God's Holy LAW. Guess what, dear reader.......we have arrived in the days of lawLESSness. The fact that many now argue against the LAW is proof positive. The fact of widespread ignorance of the LAW is proof positive. The fact that many disregard it and justify SIN by calling it a sickness is proof positive of the work of satan in the hearts and lives of Christians and Jews alike.
The church has followed the pharisees into the same spiritual self-righteous muck that Jesus warned us about - the leaven of the pharisees (Mark 8:15) - religious TRADITIONS that become self-important to the point the Bible, Jesus and salvation itself are thrown to the wind.
Why doesn't the LAW save? It doesn't save, in and of itself, because the purpose of the LAW is to instruct the man as to his condition before God - as in offense of SIN, not a disease. Nobody is excused, even if they're Jewish. Nobody is excused even if they're self-righteous church types. Nobody is excused because SIN is as much a part of the man as his head and his heart. The man IS SIN and that's why the man must DIE.
What hope then do we have? There is no real hope in traditions, lovely and important as we think they may be. There is no real hope in the LAW because it leaves us by the roadside when we refuse to walk in it. There is no real hope in religion because it has become shallow and empty and devoid of anything worthy of attention, much less respect. THIS IS WHY the church has become a joke. The people inside don't really know why they're there. The people outside don't know either and they laugh because they understand the joke is on us all.
The LAW tells us the way to go and what we'll find at the end of the road. It is for us to walk in it. Somewhere along the way we may encounter the cross if we don't get distracted by something. The LAW tells us what the cross is for and the LAW begins to teach us how we should walk on the rest of the journey, as we carry our cross with us. (Luke 14:27) For those who walk in the LAW, the sight of the cross isn't the end of things, but the beginning of a conscious desire to follow Jesus.
Paul wrote chapters 6, 7 & 8 in the book of Romans, but nobody seems to have the intelligence or the intestinal fortitude to read it. These chapters have been described by some as the Grand Canyon of the Bible (to which I would personally add Genesis 3). These chapters discuss in great detail the process of SANCTIFICATION, which some here deny. Apparently these brain dead morons believe they're better at writing scripture than St. Paul.
WHY READ THE THING when all we wish to do is dispute it?
If one doesn't understand scripture then one tends to interpret it.
Including God's Holy LAW, which has NOT been abolished at all. (Matthew 5:17)
that's me, hollering from the choir loft...
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When you know a brother is truly called and equipped by God...there is no need to try quibbling over doctrines as you know that God will reveal everything to His own in His time.
Philippians 3:15 ... “Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.”
Philippians 3:15 ... “Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.”
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