My own revival. I was lost and a sinner in need or repenting. I feared hell so I repented and started going to church. I felt the Holy Spirit guiding me along the way with immense peace and love at times that was heavenly.
What is Revival?
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Johann
Well-Known Member
I know you want me to analytically and critically asking myself the questions--
1) "And that ye put on the new man" (kai endusasthai ton kainon anthropon) "And to dress up in, put on the new man, the new creature!" Outward reformation is to reflect an implanted new nature. Genuine morality is to be cultivated by inner power and influence of the new nature --- not by environmental social reform from without. Putting on and putting off are acts of choice while renewal is a process of inner change effected by the Holy Spirit, Joh_6:63. The Spirit quickens, makes alive, 2Co_3:6.
2) "Which after God" (ton kata theon) "Which according to God," God's pattern of creation or God's nature of holiness.
3) "Is created in righteousness and true holiness" (ktis henta en dikaiosune kai hosioteti) "Was created (the new man) in (a state or condition of) righteousness and or even holiness of being," 1Jn_3:9. His righteousness is in the new man, the new creature, 2Pe_1:4; Col_3:3-4; 2Co_5:17; Eph_2:10.
having been created ἐνG1722|PREP|in δικαιοσύνῃG1343|N-DSF|righteousness καὶG2532|CONJ|and ὁσιότητιG3742|N-DSF|holiness τῆςG3588|T-GSF|- ἀληθείαςG225|N-GSF|of truth.
In righteousness and true holiness (ἐν δικιαιοσύνη καὶ ὁσιότητι τῆς ἀληθείας)
Rev., correctly, in righteousness and holiness of truth. See on Luk_1:75. Truth. Opposed to deceit, Eph_4:22, and likewise personified. Righteousness and holiness are attributes of truth.
in righteousness and holiness is both in the Dative, Singular, Feminine @marks, are we talking about the attributes of God in the, Definite Article, aleithia--or is the brand new man after the PATTERN of God?
After God (kata theon). After the pattern God, the new birth, the new life in Christ, destined to be like God in the end (Rom_8:29).
And true holiness - Margin, as in Greek, “holinese of truth” - standing in contrast with “lusts of deceit” (Greek), in Eph_4:22. “Holiness” properly refers to purity toward God, and “righteousness” to integrity toward people; but it is not cerrain that this distinction is observed here. The general idea is, that the renovated man is made an upright and a pious man; and that, therefore, he should avoid the vices which are practiced by the pagan, and which the apostle proceeds to specify. This phrase also proves that, when man was created, he was a holy being.
Give me what you think/know of this portion of scripture.
Maybe I'm missing something--so according to this, we are AS righteous and holy as God is? Yes/no?
Not being facetious here---
Dative
Dative Indirect Object, 67–68
Dative of Interest (including
Advantage [commodi] and
Disadvantage [incommodi]),
68–69
Dative of Reference/Respect, 69–70
Dative of Destination, 70
Dative of Possession, 70–71
Dative in Simple Apposition, 71
Dative of Sphere, 72
Dative of Time (when), 72–73
Dative of Association/Accompaniment,
73–74
Dative of Manner (or Adverbial Dative),
74–75
Dative of Means/Instrument, 75
Dative of Agency, 75–76
Dative of Measure/Degree of
Difference, 76–77
Dative of Cause, 77
Cognate Dative, 77–78
Dative Direct Object, 78–79
Dative After Certain Nouns, 79
Dative After Certain Adjectives, 79
Dative After Certain Prepositions, 80
I would have expected the Genitive Case here--as holy as God--so why the Dative?
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It's a small world! I was born in nearby St. Boniface and grew up in adjacent St. Vital. My Dad was a soloist on Calvary Temple's "Faith to Live By," a local TV program, the longest continuous Gospel program in North American history. I left Winnipeg to attend a seminary in the the USA right before the "spirtual refreshing" you are talking about happened.
There is a semantic dispute here. Revival experts like J. Edwin Orr prefer to reserve the term "revival" for great awakenings like the Welsh, Azusa Street, and Hebrides revivals because of the need to reserve a term for awakenings that transformed whole societies. For example, one outcome pof the Welsh revival is that many taverns went out of business for lack of patrons and many judges were laid off for lack of crimes to adjudicate. Even professional sporting events suffered from lack of attendance because almost everyone was in church. We could have similar massive awakenings today, if evangelicals were willing to pay the price. But sadly, evangelicals are not even interested enough to watch documentaries that detail the price paid by the leaders of these great awakenings.
t
I have known 2 revivals (so far) in my life. If it wasn't for the first one, I wouldn't be a disciple of Christ today.That revival took place in the late 70's, early 80's on a street called "Bertrand" in St. Boniface, Manitoba. Many people were blessed by the fellowship that arose from that revival.
The apartment I lived in was actually a corner building with its address on "Traverse" street. Now, I find it interesting that this was the place where I "traversed" into eternal reality.
The revival had lasted for a few years by the time I was convicted of my sins, just by walking down the street. That was in June 1980, I was 21...nearing my 22nd birthday. I was so grieving of my sins that I went to a catholic church...the religion of my youth...and entered into confession there...something I hadn't done in many years. I poured out tears of anguish at my sins. The poor young priest didn't know what to do with me. No consolation there, I began to read every book in my apartment until only a "reach out" NT was left. I decided to read it but prayed that God would show me if He was real. A few days into reading...and fasting (had no money)..I came to a place where the Holy Spirit was mentioned....and asked God...what is the Holy Spirit? The Spirit fell on me at that moment and I was filled with light. There was a light emanating forward from around my eyes (the helmet of salvation) and a light shimmering down from over my right shoulder. I wore that armour of light for days...witnessing on the street, and speaking to whoever would listen to me...which was no one.
I wanted out of that spiritual condition after a few days since it was NOT going away. God granted my request. When I came back down to my normal self I was depressed again...and more than ever, realizing how foolish I had been to not appreciate the miraculous walk God had given to me. I cried bitter tears and cried out to God to be permitted back into His light. That's when He spoke to me for the first time. Jesus said "you know where I am, follow Me". Additionally, He said "and before you die, you will walk like this again."
It took 18 years (I was back east in Montreal) before I experienced a second revival...first personal and then a year later a fellowship was born. We experienced the miraculous presence of God and many signs daily. So many visitors that God was sending from all over the world. We had 20 or so people staying with us and we never ran out of hot water...even though we only had the smaller 40 gallon tank. We found that strange since...years later..we had ONE young man staying with us and we lacked hot water all the time.
In the second revival I learned much about the deeper walk, church life, ministry, and the ways of God. Too many things to relate. I was able to remain in the elevated spiritual walk for 2 1/2 years or so. During that time...even my dreams were prophetic...never a regular carnal dream. I was being kept by the keeping power of God...walking in His purity.
If you haven't listened to the OP video, I encourage you to do so...to get more of the insights I have received from these experiences.
Once again I find myself struggling for the right words to express my understanding.
As righteous and holy as God? That's an interesting question! God's holiness and righteousness is measured against Himself, and our righteousness and holiness is measured against Him.
I think we are created righteous and holy in our rebirth in this way,
Galatians 2:20 KJV
20) I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
I want think more about how to answer you in this.
Much love!
Something else, I'm interested in your thoughts on this word. As I've studied this word, I'm still not sure I understand it.
In some ways, it seems to be the state of being, but then I've also thought that it refers to God's intent for our separation, like this is holiness for the purpose of serving others.
What can you tell me about this?
Much love!
I know I wasn't asked the question, but my answer would be Yes! In the inner man, because our inner man has been renewed/recreated after the image of Christ and that is how we received the gift of God's righteousness. Like where Paul said I delight in the Law of God after the inward man..
Johann
Well-Known Member
How do you understand it? I've examined this passage a long time and I'm still not fully satisfied.
Much love!
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Johann
Well-Known Member
Johann
Well-Known Member
I've added an edit to clarify. I'm still learning, and hope to learn from you. I've studied this particular verse a long time, and I'm still not fully satisfied.
Much love!
Johann
Well-Known Member
Looking for a Greek grammar beyond basics or advanced--downloadable--can you assist?
St. Vital! I know people there....just to the south of St. B. I Agree with your assessment.
Johann
Well-Known Member
You stumped me with this portion of Scripture--and looking for an advanced, Beyond the Basis's Greek Grammar of the New Testament--especially in PDF format, since I have lost mine in moving from flat to house--can you assist brother--I don't agree with @Lizbeth interpretation of this passage, no offense.
Hmm. I don't know. Let me think about it. I've just looked at a couple that I remember but not downloadable. My general go-to is NTGreek.org. But I don't think that's going to be what you have in mind.
Much love!
Johann
Well-Known Member
The Genitive Case
Overview of Genitive Uses
Adjectival Genitive 78
+
1. Descriptive Genitive (“Aporetic” Genitive) 79
ð
2. Possessive Genitive 81
3. Genitive of Relationship 83
ð
4. Partitive Genitive (“Wholative”) 84
ð
5. Attributive Genitive 85
6. Attributed Genitive 89
7. Genitive of Material 91
8. Genitive of Content 92
ð
9. Genitive in Simple Apposition 94
ð
10. Genitive of Apposition 95
11. Genitive of Destination (a. k. a. Direction or Purpose) 100
12. Predicate Genitive 102
13. Genitive of Subordination 103
14. Genitive of Production/Producer 104
15. Genitive of Product 106
Ablatival Genitive 107
1. Genitive of Separation 107
2. Genitive of Source (or Origin) 109
ð
3. Genitive of Comparison 110
Verbal Genitive (i.e., Genitive Related to a Verbal Noun) 112
ð
1. Subjective Genitive 112
ð
2. Objective Genitive 116
3. Plenary Genitive 119
Adverbial Genitive 121
1. Genitive of Price or Value or Quantity 122
ð
2. Genitive of Time (within which or during which) 122
3. Genitive of Place (where or within which) 124
4. Genitive of Means 125
5. Genitive of Agency 126
ð
6. Genitive Absolute 127
7. Genitive of Reference 127
8. Genitive of Association 128
After Certain Words 131
ð
1. Genitive After Certain Verbs (as Direct Object) 131
2. Genitive After Certain Adjectives (and Adverbs) 134
3. Genitive After Certain Nouns 135
ð
4. Genitive After Certain Prepositions 136
Examples of the Genitive which I would have expected instead of the Dative---in the portion of scripture given to me--
Eph 4:24 καὶG2532|CONJ|and ἐνδύσασθαιG1746|G5670|V-AMN|to have put on τὸνG3588|T-ASM|the καινὸνG2537|A-ASM|new ἄνθρωπονG444|N-ASM|man, τὸνG3588|T-ASM|- κατὰG2596|PREP|according to ΘεὸνG2316|N-ASM|God κτισθένταG2936|G5685|V-APP-ASM|having been created ἐνG1722|PREP|in δικαιοσύνῃG1343|N-DSF|righteousness καὶG2532|CONJ|and ὁσιότητιG3742|N-DSF|holiness τῆςG3588|T-GSF|- ἀληθείαςG225|N-GSF|of truth.
We can brainstorm this together if you wish
The dative case is not as exegetically significant as the genitive. This is not to say that the dative does not play a vital role in exegetical decisions. Rather, a particular instance of the dative is usually easier to classify than a given genitive. This is due to two things: (1) the broad classes of dative uses are generally more easily distinguishable; and (2) the embedded clause needs less “unpacking” since the dative is already related to a verb, while the genitive is more cryptic and elliptical since it is usually related to a noun.1
At the same time, there are some instances in which a given dative may function in more than one capacity (e.g., both instrumental and local), and not a few in which a decision is still hard to come by. In such places, the dative takes on greater significance.
Finally, the simple dative is phasing out in Koine Greek, being replaced largely by prepositions, especially evn + the dative.2 This is not to say that the simple dative and evn + dative mirror each other completely, as will become abundantly clear in our examination of various uses of the dative case.
Anyway--2.16 AM--way past my bed-time
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I've got to go for the day, but yes, I want to hear your thoughts on this.
I have an idea about this, that God in recreating us as made us to be righteous in the inner man, and we are working that out in our lives. And He's made us holy, which in this particular word/verse means that we've been purposed to serve others as a gift from God.
And I'm looking to either verify that, or learn what it really means.
Much love!
Johann
Well-Known Member
Again, in the Scripture it is in the Dative, Singular Feminine--
having been created ἐνG1722|PREP|in δικαιοσύνῃG1343|N-DSF|righteousness καὶG2532|CONJ|and ὁσιότητιG3742|N-DSF|holiness τῆςG3588|T-GSF|- ἀληθείαςG225|N-GSF|of truth.
Me too, way, way past my bed-time--look at aletheias
Genative (possession, "of"; also origin or separation, "from")
Number: Singular
Gender: Feminine
Later--J.
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