A rather rhetorical question for the "Hell is FOREVER" crowd

[Taken]

There is a HUGE difference Between....GOOD and HOLY.

God CREATES....and then MAKES something particular regarding a specific thing He has CREATED.

God CREATED a man....by forming him of the Dust of His Created Earth. (BODY)
God MADE a man ALIVE....by blowing Gods Breath INTO the mans form.
(SOUL)

Mans ALIVE body and soul, begins actively, seeing, hearing, smelling, touching, feeling, speaking.....and Carnally (mindfully) weighing between THIS and TDeciding his beliefs...
(likes this, rejects that, believes this, rejects that)....

Mans HEART (aside from his ever learning, and wavering, and vacillating Carnal mind)....has Specific Truths he Believes, that primarily Remain constant.
Those are the mans HEARTS THOUGHTS, and also called the NATURAL (spirit of man).
A man can Constantly know in his Heart, his natural TRUTH...his name, his children, his family, his citizenship, etc. and not WONDER.

When a man BELIEVES in his Carnal Mind...there is a God, that is ONE thing, and can CHANGE day to day.


When a man BELIEVES in his Natural Hearts thoughts...there is a God, that is ANOTHER thing....and AS LONG AS THAT MAN BELIEVES (in his Heart) JESUS lived, Jesus died, and God Raised Him up Back to LIVING, (to the day of his BODILY DEATH....that man is called: “IN JESUS”...
* GOD SHALL SAVE THAT MAN AT the TIME of his bodily death.
* GOD SHALL RAISE THAT MAN in a GLORIFIED BODY, After the millennial reign... 1 Thes 4:14.


When a man BELIEVES in his Natural Hearts thoughts....there is a God, that Jesus IS the Son of the Living God, Jesus IS the Christ.....AND CONFESSES that Belief...KNOWN AS:...THE GOSPEL...THE GOOD NEWS
* The Lord God THEN SHALL SAVE his soul. (Which MEANS: Restore his soul....BACK TO “GOOD” as it was when God blew His breath INTO that man...
AND THAT SOUL, shall NEVER be subject to God TAKING His breath Departed out from that soul...)
* The Lord God SHALL THEN QUICKEN his spirit, (Baptism of the Holy Spirit), give that man A NEW Heart (circumcision of his natural heart), give that man Gods SEED, (Rebirth that mans Natural spirit/ ie Natural TRUTH....to a born again spirit / ie Gods TRUTH)....that man is called: “IN CHRIST” ... (aka Christ the Lord Jesus’ Church).
* The Lord Gods SPIRIT (POWER) IN that man (WHO IS, still ALIVE in his flesh)...ONCE and FOREVER “KEEPS” that individual IN BELIEF.
* The Lord SHALL THEN (at an unknown hour), CALL up to Christ, in the Clouds, ALL who ARE “IN Christ”, TO:...SEE Him as He IS, and Forever BE in His Presence.
(1 Thes 4: 16-17)

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[ScottA]

No my brother.

We live in a world of deception wherein there are veils everywhere. Also, we are told that faith is a gift from God. For reasons that we don't know, that gift isn't given to everyone. Anyone who rejects God in this life only does so because they are blind, lost, and ignorant of who and what is God. Once the dross is removed they will be able to see and appreciate and then they will choose God. That is the purpose of the Lake of Fire.

You say "we don't know"-- But I know.

What you have described is not the case. I could tell you the truth and have not hid it and openly stated it, but it has been rejected. Now then, we move forward. Thus comes the small scale (worldly) enactment of what is occurring in heaven, the fulfillment of what many will claim is the manifestation of the lie they have believed. It's not, but the manifestation of their demise.

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Grailhunter]

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

 

[Patrick1966]

Are you saying ALL shall be saved?

Not from damnation but from eternal torment and death.

 

[Patrick1966]

Eternal separation

Verse please? And please provide the verse using Young's Literal Translation. Thank you.

 

[Grailhunter]

Matthew 3:12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor and gather his wheat into the barn, but the chaff he will burn with unquenchable fire.”

 

[Taken]

Not from damnation but from eternal torment and death.

I believe “damnation” is a Negative and Permanent Judgement that results in Permanent Death (body, soul, and natural spirit of a terrestrial man) and Eternal Separation from God.

Do you believe a man ALIVE in his flesh, who NEVER truly believed IN Jesus, IN Christ, will be RAISED UP ALIVE forever more?

 

[Taken]

Verse please? And please provide the verse using Young's Literal Translation. Thank you.

It’s a concept throughout Scripture....
First the Division among the People (believers and unbelievers)...
Thereafter a Separation of the Divided (with and without the Lord God)


One example of Separation:
Matt 13:
[49] So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just...

 

[Patrick1966]

Do you believe a man ALIVE in his flesh, who NEVER truly believed IN Jesus, IN Christ, will be RAISED UP ALIVE forever more?

Of course, after all, that's what the scriptures tell us. Jesus is the savior of ALL people, although some will die to damnation first. Believers are spared that process because they don't need it.

 

[Patrick1966]

It’s a concept throughout Scripture....

Can you share one using the YLT?

 

[Grailhunter]

Matthew 25:41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

 

[St. SteVen]

God is a God........OF.......the LIVING.
Gods omnipresence Does not mean God is “WITH” or “IN” every individual.

What do you make of this?

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

 

[Taken]

Of course, after all, that's what the scriptures tell us. Jesus is the savior of ALL people, although some will die to damnation first. Believers are spared that process because they don't need it.

Thank you for your response. Disagree with your understanding.
Yes ALL that are saved, ARE Saved by, through, of Christ Jesus.

We HAD a WORLD whereby MANY did not Believe, and God destroyed that world.
We HAVE a WORLD NOW whereby MANY do not Believe, and God shall AGAIN destroy this world....for the last time.

Do you believe the First time the world was destroyed....Unbelievers were Saved?

As some have estimated, perhaps ONE million people were ON Earth, and Scripture notifies us ONLY “8” persons believed and were Saved.

The current estimation is EIGHT billion people are ON Earth, and you believe, ALL SHALL BE SAVED (whether or not they Believe) ?

What do you think the following Scriptures MEAN?

Ecc 1:
[9] The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.


Luke 13:
[23] Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
[24] Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.

Thank you,
Taken

 

[Taken]

What do you make of this?

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

Exactly what the Lord God OFFERED....for a mans willingness to give his LIFE UNTO DEATH.........expressly FOR THE LORD.

Everyone MUST bodily DIE, God requires it.
A man willing to Voluntarily GIVE his Life unto Death FOR the Lord, is a man GIVING his most precious thing, for the Love of God....THAT is a TEMPORARY Death, as the individual’s, soul does not die, his born again spirit does not die, and his body shall be raised in a NEW BODY, and God his God.

It is understanding the difference of what DEATH means to a physical bodily man....and what DEATH means spiritually.
Physically DEATH is secession of Bodily life.
Spiritually DEATH is Separation from the Lord God.

A bodily ALIVE man can be spiritually DEAD.
As a matter of fact....ALL men who BECOME (soul saved, spirit quickened) WERE bodily ALIVE yet spiritually DEAD.

Col 2:
[13] And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

IOW, God does not SAVE the SAVED. He Saves those who are DEAD in their SINS. (Spiritually DEAD)....AND to receive that SALVATION...the BODY MUST FIRST DIE.

1 Cor 15:
[36] Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

Can you share one using the YLT?

What is YLT?

 

[ScottA]

What do you make of this?

Romans 14:9
For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that
he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living.

If I may...

"The dead in Christ" is Israel who received the promise of salvation but died before salvation came. "The living in Christ" are those who have and do believe He has come, who hear and open the door when He knocks letting Him in to them and them in to Him, as He said-- which is life, as He lives ("for me, to live is Christ").

 

[Windmillcharge]

Die as an enemy of God?
Jesus taught us to love our enemies.

What are you claiming that God does with His enemies?
Something less than love?
Does God hold us to a higher standard than he holds himself to?

Right.
Nothing is left to chance.

So you believe that all who hate God, who reject his mercy and grace, will be compelled by God to accept his free offer of salvation.


Presumably you believe that Jesus lied when he taught about hell.

Don't you know that God shows his love to his enemies in his provision of life etc as well as in his offer of salvation.

But God's justice means that those who will not repent, will face his judgement and exclusion from his presence.

 

[Windmillcharge]

Odd. That sounds like a salvation experience. (true repentance?)
But you think God will just look away? (and not save)

Yes in the outer darkness they will repent, but it will be too late.

God does not look away from those he is judging, they will see him in all his awful Holiness and Magesty.
But there is no salvation for those who have rejected God.

 

[St. SteVen]

So you believe that all who hate God, who reject his mercy and grace, will be compelled by God to accept his free offer of salvation.

Anyone who claims to hate God hasn't met him yet.
There is nothing free about the salvation the church is offering.

Presumably you believe that Jesus lied when he taught about hell.

Can we have a civil discussion about this? (instead of presumptions)

Don't you know that God shows his love to his enemies in his provision of life etc as well as in his offer of salvation.

But God's justice means that those who will not repent, will face his judgement and exclusion from his presence.

Did Jesus die to save us from God?

 

[Patrick1966]

What is YLT?

Young's Literal Translation (YLT) - Version Information - BibleGateway.com

www.biblegateway.com

Young's Literal Translation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org