23 major reasons to reject the Premil doctrine!

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Truth7t7

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All nations remain alive after the wicked are dead, are now the Lord's people and citizens of His millennial kingdom on earth, and He will rule them all as their Potter for their good.
Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Reader Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
 

rwb

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Do you believe Revelation 11:2 below is a future event or has this been fulfilled?

If fulfilled, when and where did this fulfillment take place?

Revelation 11:2KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Not exactly! Do you believe this is or shall be literally fulfilled?
 

rwb

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Do you believe Leading Reformed Theologian (Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr) below regarding Revelation 11:2?

Gentry below teaches Revelation 11:2 was fulfilled in 67-70AD Jerusalem, and is a parallel reading of Luke 21:24, do you believe this?

The Temple In Revelation 11

(2) Revelation 11:1, 2, written by the beloved disciple and hearer of Christ, seems clearly to draw upon Jesus’ statement from the Olivet Discourse. In Luke 21:5-7, the disciples specifically point to the Herodian Temple to inquire of its future; in Revelation 11:1 John specifically speaks of the Temple of God. In Luke 21:6 Jesus tells his disciples that the Temple will soon be destroyed stone by stone. A comparison of Luke 21:24 and Revelation 11:2 strongly suggests that the source of Revelation’s statement is Christ’s word in Luke 21.

• Luke 21:24b: “Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”

• Revelation 11:2b: “it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot for forty and two months.”

The two passages speak of the same unique event and even employ virtually identical terms.

(3) According to Revelation 11:2 Jerusalem and the Temple were to be under assault for a period of forty-two months. We know from history that the Jewish War with Rome was formally engaged in Spring, A.D. 67, and was won with the collapse of the Temple in August, A.D. 70. This is a period of forty-two months, which fits the precise measurement of John’s prophecy. Thus, John’s prophecy antedates the outbreak of the Jewish War.

Since Gentry holds to the view of an early writing of the book of Revelation (Pre AD 70), his eschatological position in my humble opinion is not biblically sound.
 
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Truth7t7

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Not exactly! Do you believe this is or shall be literally fulfilled?
Ok you don't believe this is a future event

When and where has the event of Revelation 11:2 below taken place?

If you believe "Other" please explain

Revelation 11:2KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
 

Truth7t7

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Since Gentry holds to the view of an early writing of the book of Revelation (Pre AD 70), his eschatological position in my humble opinion is not biblically sound.
We Agree, The Revelation Was Written in 96AD, long after Gentry's claim of Revelation 11:2 fulfillment in 70AD

When Was The Book Of Revelation Written?​

Author: Wayne Jackson, Christian Courier

Traditionally, the book of Revelation has been dated near the end of the first century, around A.D. 96. Some writers, however, have advanced the preterist (from a Latin word meaning “that which is past”) view, contending that the Apocalypse was penned around A.D. 68 or 69, and thus the thrust of the book is supposed to relate to the impending destruction of Jerusalem (A.D. 70).

A few prominent names have been associated with this position (e.g., Stuart, Schaff, Lightfoot, Foy E. Wallace Jr.), and for a brief time it was popular with certain scholars. James Orr has observed, however, that recent criticism has reverted to the traditional date of near A.D. 96 (1939, 2584). In fact, the evidence for the later date is extremely strong.

In view of some of the bizarre theories that have surfaced in recent times (e.g., the notion that all end-time prophecies were fulfilled with the fall of Jerusalem in A.D. 70), which are dependent upon the preterist interpretation, we offer the following.

External Evidence​

The external evidence for the late dating of Revelation is of the highest quality.

Irenaeus​

Irenaeus (A.D. 180), a student of Polycarp (who was a disciple of the apostle John), wrote that the apocalyptic vision “was seen not very long ago, almost in our own generation, at the close of the reign of Domitian” (Against Heresies 30). The testimony of Irenaeus, not far removed from the apostolic age, is first rate. He places the book near the end of Domitian’s reign, and that ruler died in A.D. 96. Irenaeus seems to be unaware of any other view for the date of the book of Revelation.

Clement of Alexandria​

Clement of Alexandria (A.D. 155-215) says that John returned from the isle of Patmos “after the tyrant was dead” (Who Is the Rich Man? 42), and Eusebius, known as the “Father of Church History,” identifies the “tyrant” as Domitian (Ecclesiastical History III.23).

Even Moses Stuart, America’s most prominent preterist, admitted that the “tyrant here meant is probably Domitian.” Within this narrative, Clement further speaks of John as an “old man.” If Revelation was written prior to A.D. 70, it would scarcely seem appropriate to refer to John as an old man, since he would only have been in his early sixties at this time.

Victorinus​

Victorinus (late third century), author of the earliest commentary on the book of Revelation, wrote:

When John said these things, he was in the island of Patmos, condemned to the mines by Caesar Domitian. There he saw the Apocalypse; and when at length grown old, he thought that he should receive his release by suffering; but Domitian being killed, he was liberated (Commentary on Revelation 10:11).

Jerome​

Jerome (A.D. 340-420) said,

In the fourteenth then after Nero, Domitian having raised up a second persecution, he [John] was banished to the island of Patmos, and wrote the Apocalypse (Lives of Illustrious Men 9).
To all of this may be added the comment of Eusebius, who contends that the historical tradition of his time (A.D. 324) placed the writing of the Apocalypse at the close of Domitian’s reign (III.18). McClintock and Strong, in contending for the later date, declare that “there is no mention in any writer of the first three centuries of any other time or place” (1969, 1064). Upon the basis of external evidence, therefore, there is little contest between the earlier and later dates.

Internal Evidence​

The contents of the book of Revelation also suggest a late date, as the following observations indicate.

The spiritual conditions of the churches described in Revelation chapters two and three more readily harmonize with the late date.

The church in Ephesus, for instance, was not founded by Paul until the latter part of Claudius’s reign: and when he wrote to them from Rome, A.D. 61, instead of reproving them for any want of love, he commends their love and faith (Eph. 1:15) (Horne 1841, 382).

Yet, when Revelation was written, in spite of the fact that the Ephesians had been patient (2:2), they had also left their first love (v. 4), and this would seem to require a greater length of time than seven or eight years, as suggested by the early date.

Another internal evidence of a late date is that this book was penned while John was banished to Patmos (1:9). It is well known that Domitian had a fondness for this type of persecution. If, however, this persecution is dated in the time of Nero, how does one account for the fact that Peter and Paul are murdered, yet John is only exiled to an island? (Eusebius III.18; II.25).

Then consider this fact. The church at Laodicea is represented as existing under conditions of great wealth. She was rich and had need of nothing (3:17). In A.D. 60, though, Laodicea had been almost entirely destroyed by an earthquake. Surely it would have required more than eight or nine years for that city to have risen again to the state of affluence described in Revelation.

The doctrinal departures described in Revelation would appear to better fit the later dating. For example, the Nicolaitans (2:6, 15) were a full-fledged sect at the time of John’s writing, whereas they had only been hinted at in general terms in 2 Peter and Jude, which were written possibly around A.D. 65-66.

Persecution for professing the Christian faith is evidenced in those early letters to the seven churches of Asia Minor. For instance, Antipas had been killed in Pergamum (2:13). It is generally agreed among scholars, however, that Nero’s persecution was mostly confined to Rome; further, it was not for religious reasons (Harrison 1964, 446).
 
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Truth7t7

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So you finally agree that Luke 21:20 and Matthew 24:15 are parallel readings of the same events.

That's encouraging to see.
3rd Time:

Do You Believe Gentry's Teaching Below Regarding Luke 21:24 & Revelation 11:2?

Do you believe Leading Reformed Theologian (Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr) below regarding Revelation 11:2?

Gentry below teaches Revelation 11:2 was fulfilled in 67-70AD Jerusalem, and is a parallel reading of Luke 21:24, do you believe this?

The Temple In Revelation 11

(2) Revelation 11:1, 2, written by the beloved disciple and hearer of Christ, seems clearly to draw upon Jesus’ statement from the Olivet Discourse. In Luke 21:5-7, the disciples specifically point to the Herodian Temple to inquire of its future; in Revelation 11:1 John specifically speaks of the Temple of God. In Luke 21:6 Jesus tells his disciples that the Temple will soon be destroyed stone by stone. A comparison of Luke 21:24 and Revelation 11:2 strongly suggests that the source of Revelation’s statement is Christ’s word in Luke 21.

• Luke 21:24b: “Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”

• Revelation 11:2b: “it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot for forty and two months.”

The two passages speak of the same unique event and even employ virtually identical terms.

(3) According to Revelation 11:2 Jerusalem and the Temple were to be under assault for a period of forty-two months. We know from history that the Jewish War with Rome was formally engaged in Spring, A.D. 67, and was won with the collapse of the Temple in August, A.D. 70. This is a period of forty-two months, which fits the precise measurement of John’s prophecy. Thus, John’s prophecy antedates the outbreak of the Jewish War.
 

covenantee

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3rd Time:

Do You Believe Gentry's Teaching Below Regarding Luke 21:24 & Revelation 11:2?

Do you believe Leading Reformed Theologian (Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr) below regarding Revelation 11:2?

Gentry below teaches Revelation 11:2 was fulfilled in 67-70AD Jerusalem, and is a parallel reading of Luke 21:24, do you believe this?

The Temple In Revelation 11

(2) Revelation 11:1, 2, written by the beloved disciple and hearer of Christ, seems clearly to draw upon Jesus’ statement from the Olivet Discourse. In Luke 21:5-7, the disciples specifically point to the Herodian Temple to inquire of its future; in Revelation 11:1 John specifically speaks of the Temple of God. In Luke 21:6 Jesus tells his disciples that the Temple will soon be destroyed stone by stone. A comparison of Luke 21:24 and Revelation 11:2 strongly suggests that the source of Revelation’s statement is Christ’s word in Luke 21.

• Luke 21:24b: “Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”

• Revelation 11:2b: “it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot for forty and two months.”

The two passages speak of the same unique event and even employ virtually identical terms.

(3) According to Revelation 11:2 Jerusalem and the Temple were to be under assault for a period of forty-two months. We know from history that the Jewish War with Rome was formally engaged in Spring, A.D. 67, and was won with the collapse of the Temple in August, A.D. 70. This is a period of forty-two months, which fits the precise measurement of John’s prophecy. Thus, John’s prophecy antedates the outbreak of the Jewish War.
The answer to your question: I agree with Gentry's exegesis.

My next question: What caused you to change your mind about Luke 21:20 and Matthew 24:15?
 

Truth7t7

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The answer to your question: I agree with Gentry's exegesis.

My next question: What caused you to change your mind about Luke 21:20 and Matthew 24:15?
I have always believed Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 were parallel readings of the same events

Gentry's teaching regarding Revelation 11:2 is a farce in calims of 70AD fulfillment, as the book of Revelation was written in 96AD as post# 1065 above clearly shows

You have now entered into the realm of (Luis De Alcasars) teachings regarding 70AD preterist fulfillment of Revelation 11:2

Stop denying your preterist beliefs, Gentry & Riddlebarger wear the (Luis De Alcasar) Roman Catholic preterist badge proudly

Jesus Is The Lord
 
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covenantee

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I have always believed Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 were parallel readings of the same events
Then you believe that the desolating armies seen by the Judean Christians surrounding Jerusalem were part of that event, as Luke 21:20 describes.

That's encouraging to see.

Pure Scriptural history.

Throw your Scofield fantasizer in the round file from whence it came.
 
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covenantee

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Gentry's teaching regarding Revelation 11:2 is a farce in calims of 70AD fulfillment, as the book of Revelation was written in 96AD as post# 1065 above clearly shows
Date of writing is irrelevant, as both John and Luke were retroactively recounting the content of Jesus' Olivet prophecies which He delivered before 30 AD.

Pure Scriptural history.

Throw your Scofield fantasizer in the round file from whence it came.
 
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rwb

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Ok you don't believe this is a future event

When and where has the event of Revelation 11:2 below taken place?

If you believe "Other" please explain

Revelation 11:2KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

I believe in this message John used symbolism of things familiar to him to teach spiritual truth. Similar to the way Christ used parables. For me to make sense of this chapter it helped to go back to chapter 10:8-11. John is told to take a little book; many believe to be the Word of God; the Gospel. John had to eat the book, and, in his mouth, it was sweet like honey, but it made his belly bitter. That's because the Gospel is a two-edged sword that cuts both for life and for death depending upon the response of the hearer. The angel tells John: "Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."

It was time for the Gospel to be sent unto all the nations of the earth, there would always be believers throughout the earth, people of faith who are the temple of God and the holy city who worship at His altar. John's not given a literal reed and rod to measure a literal people or literal place. The act of measuring a spiritual people of God, His true temple indicates that as long as the message of the Gospel goes out there will always be faithful saints to be numbered of the great innumerable multitude that She will finally be.

The court outside is still part of the temple and holy city, but is symbolized as Gentiles or unbelievers, tares mixed in among the wheat, who would wreak havoc among and within the sons/daughters of God. I don't view the numbers in the Revelation as literal, but symbolic of whatever is in view. The forty-two months symbolizing time for tearing down and destroying within the full amount of time the church on earth is given for building the spiritual Kingdom of God as the Gospel is proclaimed. It is equal to one thousand two hundred sixty symbolic days of time within the full amount of time given for building the Kingdom of God. These times being equally divided are likened to time, times and the dividing/half of time, which represents the full amount of time given for preaching the Gospel to build the Kingdom of God. The full time, John symbolically writes a thousand years shall be no more when the seventh angel begins to sound (Rev 10).

I know you view the two witnesses as two literal men who shall come, but that doesn't make sense. They symbolize the church from both the Old Covenant and the New Covenant eras. They are not two but four. That are two olive trees and two candlesticks. The olive trees symbolizing the Law and Prophets of Old, and the two candlesticks symbolizing the Gospel of Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Faith came of Old when the message through the Law and Prophets was believed. Believing the promised Messiah would one day come and deliver the faithful saints from bondage of sin and death. Since Christ has come, faith now comes by hearing the Gospel message about Christ, and through the power of the Holy Spirit sent by Christ, unbelievers are given the gift of faith to believe.
 
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rwb

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3rd Time:

Do You Believe Gentry's Teaching Below Regarding Luke 21:24 & Revelation 11:2?

Do you believe Leading Reformed Theologian (Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr) below regarding Revelation 11:2?

Gentry below teaches Revelation 11:2 was fulfilled in 67-70AD Jerusalem, and is a parallel reading of Luke 21:24, do you believe this?

The Temple In Revelation 11

(2) Revelation 11:1, 2, written by the beloved disciple and hearer of Christ, seems clearly to draw upon Jesus’ statement from the Olivet Discourse. In Luke 21:5-7, the disciples specifically point to the Herodian Temple to inquire of its future; in Revelation 11:1 John specifically speaks of the Temple of God. In Luke 21:6 Jesus tells his disciples that the Temple will soon be destroyed stone by stone. A comparison of Luke 21:24 and Revelation 11:2 strongly suggests that the source of Revelation’s statement is Christ’s word in Luke 21.

• Luke 21:24b: “Jerusalem will be trampled underfoot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.”

• Revelation 11:2b: “it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot for forty and two months.”

The two passages speak of the same unique event and even employ virtually identical terms.

(3) According to Revelation 11:2 Jerusalem and the Temple were to be under assault for a period of forty-two months. We know from history that the Jewish War with Rome was formally engaged in Spring, A.D. 67, and was won with the collapse of the Temple in August, A.D. 70. This is a period of forty-two months, which fits the precise measurement of John’s prophecy. Thus, John’s prophecy antedates the outbreak of the Jewish War.

This is a clear indication of reading one's doctrine into the text rather than allowing the text to inform one's doctrine.
 
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Timtofly

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How is his view of Revelation 20:9 preterist? You don't have a clue of what you're talking about. Amils like WPM, jeffweeder, rwb and myself believe that that the camp of the saints is a reference to the church. What does viewing it that way have to do with preterism? Nothing.

I think most preterists would probably agree with you that the camp is Jerusalem, but they would say that it's talking about something that happened in 70 AD. That is not what WPM and Amils like him (including me) believe.
You accept the camp of the saints was established in 30AD in Jerusalem. Then 40 years later was surrounded by an army and destroyed. That camp you have set up did not even last 40 years, much less 1,000 years.

Of course you white wash your amil symbolism in mind twisting logic, that we cannot look at a beginning nor end logically, but only symbolically, so your point has to work out, just because "we say so". Amil cannot explain who the beheaded people are in the first century brought back to life who live in this physical camp of the saints in Jerusalem and can never die again, but who really don't need to as these are really people who never physically died, but now are local Christians because obviously the camp of the saints was destroyed in 70AD.

Now we see at the end of Amil's 1,000 non literal reign, there are local Christians all over the earth, not a camp of the saints as John explains near Jerusalem. John was mistaken because obviously John did not know how life was 1993 years later, according to the Amil posters here.
 
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Timtofly

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Where does it say that the camp of the saints are with Jesus Christ?


In heaven. The camp of the saints, which is a figurative reference to the church, are on earth.
"them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years."

They lived, meaning they were physically dead, and now physically alive. They reigned with Christ. The verse does not say they reigned for Christ in this camp of the saints. It says they reigned with Christ, and the Lamb was in their midst, sitting on His glorious throne set up in Jerusalem.

"When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:"

The sheep reign in Jerusalem with Jesus as well. The camp of the saints are those who were beheaded just prior to the battle of Armageddon. That is the main subject, frankly point of view John is giving in Revelation 20. Satan is bound, the beheaded are judged and given life, the first resurrection, which is physical. They are the camp of the saints reigning with Christ, while on His glorious throne in Jerusalem. They are still the same beheaded people in the same camp of the saints 1,000 years later. They never die, because they were judged and given life and live in the camp of the saints for a thousand years. They are the subject of whom the camp of the saints are.

Not Amil's assumed human understanding of local Christians who live and die for 1900 years. The camp of the saints is specific to those beheaded at the beginning of the 1,000 years. They are the subject of the ongoing topic. They are the saints mentioned.
 

Truth7t7

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Then you believe that the desolating armies seen by the Judean Christians surrounding Jerusalem were part of that event, as Luke 21:20 describes.

That's encouraging to see.

Pure Scriptural history.

Throw your Scofield fantasizer in the round file from whence it came.
I have nothing to do with Adulterer C.I. Scofield and his false teachings and beliefs as you falsely claim

You move in diversion from the fact that you believe Revelation 11:2 was fulfilled in 70AD as Preterist Ken Gentry falsely teaches, as the book of Revelation was written 26 years "After 70AD", when John was in prison on Patmos under the reign of Emperor Domitian in 96AD
 

Truth7t7

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This is a clear indication of reading one's doctrine into the text rather than allowing the text to inform one's doctrine.
Your response is circular in reasoning

Gentry falsely claims Revelation 11:2 was fulfilled in 70AD, and covenantal agrees with Gentry in this preteris interpretation

Do you agree with Gentry and covenantee?
 
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Truth7t7

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I believe in this message John used symbolism of things familiar to him to teach spiritual truth. Similar to the way Christ used parables. For me to make sense of this chapter it helped to go back to chapter 10:8-11. John is told to take a little book; many believe to be the Word of God; the Gospel. John had to eat the book, and, in his mouth, it was sweet like honey, but it made his belly bitter. That's because the Gospel is a two-edged sword that cuts both for life and for death depending upon the response of the hearer. The angel tells John: "Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings."

It was time for the Gospel to be sent unto all the nations of the earth, there would always be believers throughout the earth, people of faith who are the temple of God and the holy city who worship at His altar. John's not given a literal reed and rod to measure a literal people or literal place. The act of measuring a spiritual people of God, His true temple indicates that as long as the message of the Gospel goes out there will always be faithful saints to be numbered of the great innumerable multitude that She will finally be.

The court outside is still part of the temple and holy city, but is symbolized as Gentiles or unbelievers, tares mixed in among the wheat, who would wreak havoc among and within the sons/daughters of God. I don't view the numbers in the Revelation as literal, but symbolic of whatever is in view. The forty-two months symbolizing time for tearing down and destroying within the full amount of time the church on earth is given for building the spiritual Kingdom of God as the Gospel is proclaimed. It is equal to one thousand two hundred sixty symbolic days of time within the full amount of time given for building the Kingdom of God. These times being equally divided are likened to time, times and the dividing/half of time, which represents the full amount of time given for preaching the Gospel to build the Kingdom of God. The full time, John symbolically writes a thousand years shall be no more when the seventh angel begins to sound (Rev 10).

I know you view the two witnesses as two literal men who shall come, but that doesn't make sense. They symbolize the church from both the Old Covenant and the New Covenant eras. They are not two but four. That are two olive trees and two candlesticks. The olive trees symbolizing the Law and Prophets of Old, and the two candlesticks symbolizing the Gospel of Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Faith came of Old when the message through the Law and Prophets was believed. Believing the promised Messiah would one day come and deliver the faithful saints from bondage of sin and death. Since Christ has come, faith now comes by hearing the Gospel message about Christ, and through the power of the Holy Spirit sent by Christ, unbelievers are given the gift of faith to believe.
You wrote a Novel sized response to explain the symbolic allegory of reformed eschatology, and you gave complete disregard to answering the interpretation of Luke 21:24 & Revelation 11:2, when and where was fulfillment, big smiles!

I fully agree with Gentry that Luke 21:24 & Revelation 11:2 are the exact same event seen, however it's a future event that didn't take place in Gentrys false claims of 70AD Jerusalem

Do you deny that Luke 21:24 & Revelation 11:2 below are the exact same event?

1.) Same holy city Jerusalem?
2.) Same Gentiles?
3.) Same trodden down, tread under foot?

Luke 21:24KJV
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

Revelation 11:2KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
 
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Timtofly

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That's not Preterist that's knowing historical FACTS!
From a preterist interpretation bias.

The historical facts don't have an aod placed in Jerusalem in 70AD. That prophecy is still future. In the writings of Josephus the translators made a note that the armies in Luke refers to the fleeing from the Roman armies in 66AD under Vespasian. That is the historical fact. Historist today conflate 66AD with 70AD and magically, poof, they have an aod.

Vespasian is not Titus. They actually fled in 66AD not 70AD. No one fled in 70AD. There was no AoD in 70AD. Josephus is your source and even Josephus cannot confirm preterist/historist claims. But that does not prevent preterist bias, who overlook the facts and make unsubstantiated claims. Historist are making the same unsubstantiated claims, and letting their bias blind them to the actual facts.

In thinking Scripture can be used to interpret Scripture they are saying it is OK to interpret these Scripture in the same fashion as taking the verse that states, "Judas went out an hung himself", together with a verse that states, "go and do thou likewise". Just because two things are mentioned in the Olivet Discourse does not mean they are related.

The disciples of Jesus prior to the Cross thought that the kingdom would be set up in their lifetime. Even Paul much later was expecting the Second Coming in his lifetime. They were not wrong, just had high expectations. So they asked the questions in light of their limited understanding, not in hindsight 1900 years later as into today's understanding.

You cannot change their point of view and declare the Olivet Discourse was all about them. Jesus answered their questions over the next several days on the mount of Olives and in the temple. We only have a brief summary. Luke 20 is dealing with 70AD, and the first Jewish revolt between 66 AD and the slaughter in 70AD. Matthew 24 is dealing with the Second Coming. The Preterist view is to combine Matthew and Luke and declare they both are about 70AD, which several Historist Amil on this forum do indeed do, and you agree with them by giving their post a "nod", indicating you agree with them.

I agree with historical facts, but I am not a Historist with a bias that contradicts Scripture.

The point is still valid. In the near future when those people in and around Jerusalem see the AoD placed, they need to flee, unless they are planning on being deceived by Satan, take the mark, and wholeheartedly accept that AoD. Because the end is still future and the gospel is still being preached.
 

Timtofly

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I know what Preterism believes. However historical record affirms Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed then whether Preterits believe it or not. So continually calling/comparing Reformed Doctrine to Preterism is fundamentally untrue.
When you use Scripture to wrongly interpret Josephus, that is preterist bias. Preterist use Scripture to wrongly interpret history.

They are not using historical facts. They are using their made up opinions on the topic. They are re-writing history with Scripture interpretation. They make both history and Scripture contradictory.

Preterism does not confirm Jerusalem was destroyed. That is an historical fact. You're right, Jerusalem was historically destroyed no matter one's belief system. It was even destroyed as a fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy, not because some humans were defying the Word of God.

It is interpreting Scripture and history wrong that makes one a great preterist. That is the case of Amil and historist Amil in this forum. And being a great preterist is not a good thing. There are even some pre-mill who agree with this wrong preterist bias. They accept many dual fulfillment events that history repeats itself many times, and 70AD is just another repetition of the same prophecy. All of them deny being "closet" preterist.