23 major reasons to reject the Premil doctrine!

[Truth7t7]

If it doesn't teach what the Reformers taught, then it is not legitimate reformed eschatology.

Neither it nor you can name one Reformer who espoused preterism.

You, on the other hand, espouse the futurist fabrications of the apostate papacy's counter-Reformation Jesuit Francisco Ribera.

"Reformed Churches Today" teach 70AD fulfillment, this is preterist teaching found in Roman Catholic Jesuit (Luis De Alcasar), it's that simple

You can roll on the floor and kick your feet all you want in denial, it's a fact "Reformed Churches Today" teach preterist 70AD fulfillment

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[covenantee]

"Reformed Churches Today" teach 70AD fulfillment, this is preterist teaching found in Roman Catholic Jesuit (Luis De Alcasar), it's that simple

You can roll on the floor and kick your feet all you want in denial, it's a fact "Reformed Churches Today" teach preterist 70AD fulfillment

Jesus Is The Lord

Tell us, with exact verbatim quotes, what Alcazar taught.

Then show us, with exact verbatim quotes, any Reformed Church today quoting Alcazar in its teaching.

Try not to over-exert yourself.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The camp is Jerusalem, and the saints are the prophets returned in the (Two Witnesses) something you don't believe in your reformed preterist eschatology

Revelation 20:9KJV
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

How is his view of Revelation 20:9 preterist? You don't have a clue of what you're talking about. Amils like WPM, jeffweeder, rwb and myself believe that that the camp of the saints is a reference to the church. What does viewing it that way have to do with preterism? Nothing.

I think most preterists would probably agree with you that the camp is Jerusalem, but they would say that it's talking about something that happened in 70 AD. That is not what WPM and Amils like him (including me) believe.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

With Jesus Christ.

Where does it say that the camp of the saints are with Jesus Christ?

Where is Jesus Christ?

In heaven. The camp of the saints, which is a figurative reference to the church, are on earth.

 

[WPM]

"Reformed Churches Today" teach 70AD fulfillment, this is preterist teaching found in Roman Catholic Jesuit (Luis De Alcasar), it's that simple

You can roll on the floor and kick your feet all you want in denial, it's a fact "Reformed Churches Today" teach preterist 70AD fulfillment

Jesus Is The Lord

Lol. The jesuits and the Reformers were arch-enemies. Your posts totally contradict themselves. This tells the rest of us you are all over the place. There is no objectivity to your pettiness.

While what we orthodox Amils espouse follows in the line of honorable Reformers, you espouse classic Jesuit teaching. Ribera and Lacunza are your ancient inspirations.

 

[Truth7t7]

Lol. The jesuits and the Reformers were arch-enemies. Your posts totally contradict themselves. This tells the rest of us you are all over the place. There is no objectivity to your pettiness.

While what we orthodox Amils espouse follows in the line of honorable Reformers, you espouse classic Jesuit teaching. Ribera and Lacunza are your ancient inspirations.

I deny a pre-trib rapture and millennial kingdom, and you claim I'm in the dispensationalist camp, smiles!

One thing is a fact, Daniel's AOD and The Great Tribulation are future events unfulfilled, and it's fulfillment has no part in 70AD Jerusalems destruction as reformed preterist eschatology claims

Add to that (The Man Of Sin/The Beast) will be a literal future human man, something reformed preterist eschatology denies "Scary"!

Jesus Is The Lord

 

[covenantee]

I deny a pre-trib rapture and millennial kingdom, and you claim I'm in the dispensationalist camp, smiles!

One thing is a fact, Daniel's AOD and The Great Tribulation are future events unfulfilled, and it's fulfillment has no part in 70AD Jerusalems destruction as reformed preterist eschatology claims

Add to that (The Man Of Sin/The Beast) will be a literal future human man, something reformed preterist eschatology denies "Scary"!

Jesus Is The Lord

You're even more dispensational than the dispensationalists, with your denial of Reformation historical prophetic truth, without which the Protestant Christian Church would not exist today; the 490 days of delirium that you attempt to impose on Daniel's 70 weeks; your espousal of the futurist fabrications of the apostate papacy's counter-Reformation Jesuit Francisco Ribera; your declaration that Messiah the Prince is antichrist; your refusal to acknowledge Messiah's hand in the judgment and destruction of Jerusalem and Israel; your rejection of the application of simple rules of grammar in Scriptural analysis and interpretation;

etc.

Your denials of the rapture and millennium are far overshadowed by the unScriptural, inconsistent, illogical, and irrational beliefs to which you subscribe.

 

[Truth7t7]

You're even more dispensational than the dispensationalists, with your denial of Reformation historical prophetic truth, without which the Protestant Christian Church would not exist today; the 490 days of delirium that you attempt to impose on Daniel's 70 weeks; your espousal of the futurist fabrications of the apostate papacy's counter-Reformation Jesuit Francisco Ribera; your declaration that Messiah the Prince is antichrist; your refusal to acknowledge Messiah's hand in the judgment and destruction of Jerusalem and Israel; your rejection of the application of simple rules of grammar in Scriptural analysis and interpretation;

etc.

Your denials of the rapture and millennium are far overshadowed by the unScriptural, inconsistent, illogical, and irrational beliefs to which you subscribe.

Reformed Eschatology In 70AD Fulfillment Is Preterism

The Father Of Modern Preterism Is Jesuit Catholic Priest (Luis De Alcasar)

Pretty hard to have a great tribulation in 70AD (Matthew 24:21), and Jesus returning immediately after a tribulation of those days (Matthew 24:29-30)

Reformed Preterist Escgatology in 70AD fulfillment is a farce of false teaching

Jesus Is The Lord

You can reject Jesuit Priest "Luis De Alcasar" all you want, Historicism is Preterist in its very foundations, and Alcasar is its father

You can repeat yourself 100 times, Historicism follows the Alcasar Preterist teachings

Daniel's AOD, The Great Tribulation, Armies Surrounding Jerusalem

Your throwing rocks in a glass house, reformed eschatology in preterism is wrong to its very foundations

Examples: Denial of a future AOD, Great Tribulation, Literal Human (Man Of Sin/The Beast), Literal (Two Witnesses) returned, "Deception"

I Agree with reformed eschatology in the fact there isn't a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth, but the rest of the reformed eschatology package is out in left field, way out there!

 

[Truth7t7]

How is his view of Revelation 20:9 preterist? You don't have a clue of what you're talking about. Amils like WPM, jeffweeder, rwb and myself believe that that the camp of the saints is a reference to the church. What does viewing it that way have to do with preterism? Nothing.

I think most preterists would probably agree with you that the camp is Jerusalem, but they would say that it's talking about something that happened in 70 AD. That is not what WPM and Amils like him (including me) believe.

You, WPM, Jeff, RWB, and Coventee, follow reformed preterist eschatology in 70AD fulfillment, you are preterist in your eschatology

This eschatology denies (Two Witnesses) being literal prophets returned in physical bodies that die as Revelation chapter 11 describes

Reformed Preterist Eschatology falsely teaches that (Two Witnesses) represent the Old/New Testaments, it denies literal future prophets returned?

 

[Truth7t7]

I think most preterists would probably agree with you that the camp is Jerusalem, but they would say that it's talking about something that happened in 70 AD. That is not what WPM and Amils like him (including me) believe.

I believe scripture interprets Revelation 20:8-9 (The Saints) are the (Two Witnesses) seen in Revelation chapter 11, that will be literal prophets returned in literal bodies that die

I believe the world will be gathered to (The Camp/Jerusalem), by (The Saints) bringing literal plagues upon the world from Jerusalem, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, when the armies surround Jerusalem, Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End)

Revelation 20:8-9KJV
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 

[Truth7t7]

Lol. The jesuits and the Reformers were arch-enemies. Your posts totally contradict themselves. This tells the rest of us you are all over the place. There is no objectivity to your pettiness.

While what we orthodox Amils espouse follows in the line of honorable Reformers, you espouse classic Jesuit teaching. Ribera and Lacunza are your ancient inspirations.

The orthodox early church fathers after 70AD, Justin Martyr, Iranaeus, Hippolytus, Tertullian, Victorinus, taught of a literal human man to be (The Little Horn/Man Of Sin/The Beast) they taught of a future AOD and Great Tribulation from their 2nd, 3rd, 4th century lives

All the above of which Reformed Preterist Eschatology denies, this Is a Farse In False Teachings

1.) Daniel's AOD is future

2.) The Great Tribulation is future

3.) (The Little Horn/Man Of Sin/The Beast) will be a future literal human man

Didache (AD 100) "then shall appear the world-deceiver as Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands, (Didache - Chapter 16)

Justin Martyr (AD 100-168) "O unreasoning men! understanding not what has been proved by all these passages, that two advents of Christ have been announced: the one, in which He is set forth as suffering, inglorious, dishonoured, and crucified; but the other, in which He shall come from heaven with glory, when the man of apostasy, who speaks strange things against the Most High, shall venture to do unlawful deeds on the earth against us the Christians (First Apology of Justin, Chapter 110)

Irenaeus (AD 140-202) "he who is to come shall slay three, and subject the remainder to his power, and that he shall be himself the eighth among them. And they shall lay Babylon waste, and burn her with fire, and shall give their kingdom to the beast, and put the Church to flight. After that they shall be destroyed by the coming of our Lord." (Against Heresies V, XXVI, 1)

Tertullian (AD 150-220) "that the city of fornication may receive from the ten kings its deserved doom, Revelation xviii and that the beast Antichrist with his false prophet may wage war on the Church of God; (On the Resurrection of the Flesh, Chapter 25)

Victorinus (AD 269-271) "He shall cause also that a golden image of Antichrist shall be placed in the temple at Jerusalem, and that the apostate angel should enter, and thence utter voices and oracles... The Lord, admonishing His churches concerning the last times and their dangers, ... three years and six months, in which with all his power the devil will avenge himself under Antichrist against the Church." (Commentary on the Apocalypse, 20:1-3)

 

[rwb]

Does reformed eschatology today teach 70AD fulfillment, 100% yes its (Preterism) from its father, Roman Catholic Jesuit (Luis De Alcazar)

That's not Preterist that's knowing historical FACTS!

 

[rwb]

I believe scripture interprets Revelation 20:8-9 (The Saints) are the (Two Witnesses) seen in Revelation chapter 11, that will be literal prophets returned in literal bodies that die

I believe the world will be gathered to (The Camp/Jerusalem), by (The Saints) bringing literal plagues upon the world from Jerusalem, a remake of Moses/Aaron against Pharaoh of Egypt, when the armies surround Jerusalem, Jesus returns in fire and final judgment (The End)

Revelation 20:8-9KJV
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

There will be only one bodily resurrection of the saints, and ALL that are in the graves. When the saints are resurrected, they will be changed from mortal to immortal, which means they will never again physically die. The saints still alive upon the earth during Satan's "little season" shall be the camp of the saints that Gog & Magog, led by Satan will surround, they are the beloved city. Just before the fire of God comes down to devour them, the saints shall be caught up to meet the Lord in the air until the wrath of God is over.

 

[rwb]

Reformed Eschatology In 70AD Fulfillment Is Preterism

The Father Of Modern Preterism Is Jesuit Catholic Priest (Luis De Alcasar)

Pretty hard to have a great tribulation in 70AD (Matthew 24:21), and Jesus returning immediately after a tribulation of those days (Matthew 24:29-30)

Reformed Preterist Escgatology in 70AD fulfillment is a farce of false teaching

Jesus Is The Lord

You can reject Jesuit Priest "Luis De Alcasar" all you want, Historicism is Preterist in its very foundations, and Alcasar is its father

You can repeat yourself 100 times, Historicism follows the Alcasar Preterist teachings

Daniel's AOD, The Great Tribulation, Armies Surrounding Jerusalem

Your throwing rocks in a glass house, reformed eschatology in preterism is wrong to its very foundations

Examples: Denial of a future AOD, Great Tribulation, Literal Human (Man Of Sin/The Beast), Literal (Two Witnesses) returned, "Deception"

I Agree with reformed eschatology in the fact there isn't a future Millennial Kingdom on this earth, but the rest of the reformed eschatology package is out in left field, way out there!

This is silly! History, not Preterism proves historical fulfillment of the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple of old. Believing historical fact does not make one an adherent to Preterism.

 

[Truth7t7]

That's not Preterist that's knowing historical FACTS!

Perhaps you need to understand Preterism and it's definition, 70AD fulfillment seen in Matthew Chapter 24 is 100% Preterism

 

[Truth7t7]

This is silly! History, not Preterism proves historical fulfillment of the destruction of Jerusalem and the Temple of old. Believing historical fact does not make one an adherent to Preterism.

Perhaps you need to understand Preterism and it's definition, 70AD fulfillment seen in Matthew Chapter 24 is 100% Preterism

 

[Truth7t7]

There will be only one bodily resurrection of the saints, and ALL that are in the graves. When the saints are resurrected, they will be changed from mortal to immortal, which means they will never again physically die. The saints still alive upon the earth during Satan's "little season" shall be the camp of the saints that Gog & Magog, led by Satan will surround, they are the beloved city. Just before the fire of God comes down to devour them, the saints shall be caught up to meet the Lord in the air until the wrath of God is over.

I disagree, the saints are the two witnesses that will be killed, and literally lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem their camp

 

[rwb]

Perhaps you need to understand Preterism and it's definition, 70AD fulfillment seen in Matthew Chapter 24 is 100% Preterism

I know what Preterism believes. However historical record affirms Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed then whether Preterits believe it or not. So continually calling/comparing Reformed Doctrine to Preterism is fundamentally untrue.

 

[rwb]

I disagree, the saints are the two witnesses that will be killed, and literally lay dead in the streets of Jerusalem their camp

Yes, I understand that is your opinion! But I notice you offer no biblical proof texts for this opinion.

 

[rwb]

Perhaps you need to understand Preterism and it's definition, 70AD fulfillment seen in Matthew Chapter 24 is 100% Preterism

I know what Preterism believes. However historical record affirms Jerusalem and the temple were destroyed then whether Preterits believe it or not. So continually calling/comparing Reformed Doctrine to Preterism is fundamentally untrue.