Hell's Population Clock

[Webers_Home]

.
Q: doesn't the Bible say that God's mercy endures forever as per Ps 100:5,
Ps 106:1, Ps 107:1, and Ps 118:1, et al?

A: The Hebrew word for "mercy" in those passages is checed (kheh'-sed)
which basically means kindness. It's first appearance in the Bible is located
at Gen19:19 where Lot was grateful to God for getting him out of Sodom
before incinerating the community and its citizens beyond recognition.

God never ceases to be kind-hearted. However, God also never ceases to be
sensible. He was kind to Lot; but not to the communities of Sodom and
Gomorrah. They tested God to the point where being lenient with them any
longer would have just been throwing good money after bad.

†. Jude 1:7 . . Sodom and Gomorrah, and the surrounding towns, gave
themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an
example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Beware lest their fate becomes yours too.

†. Rom 2:3-5 . . Do you show contempt for the riches of God's kindness,
tolerance, and patience; not realizing that His kindness leads you toward
repentance? But because of your stubbornness, and your unrepentant heart,
you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when
His righteous judgment will be revealed.

Pop Clock Update: 577 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 31,790,392 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Webers_Home]

.
†. John 10:28 . . I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no
one will grab them out of my hand.

Webster's defines "never" as: not ever, at no time, not in any degree, not
under any condition

When people question the reliability of Jesus' statement, they are not only
opposing Webster's definition of "never" but worse: casting a vote of no
confidence in the Lord's competence as a good shepherd.

NOTE: since John 10:28 is an element of the gospel; then those who refuse
to believe Jesus' statement is true, are already destined for hell-- no delay,
and no waiting period.

†. John 3:18 . .Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever
disbelieves stands condemned already

FYI: eternal life is a quality of life that's impervious to time, decay, death,
and the aging process. Therefore; the sheep to whom Jesus has given
eternal life are impervious to the wages of sin.

†. Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life.

Since eternal life is impervious to the wages of sin; then people who insist
that Jesus' sheep are vulnerable to perishing due to sin are in opposition to
the statement below:

†. John 5:24 . . I assure you: those who listen to my message, and believe
in God who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for
their sins, but they have already passed from death into life.

†. Rom 8:2 . .The law of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sin and
death.

Pop Clock Update: 580 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 31,955,680 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Sodom and Gomorrah were small potatoes. Just imagine the number of
innocent babies and children who died in the Flood-- all due to collateral
damage. And whose fault was that? God's? No; the parents; and they will
have to answer for putting their children in harm's way.

A similar catastrophe is slated for the future. A world-wide earthquake
described at Rev 16:18- 20 will be so severe that every city on earth will
collapse at once. Over two-thousand people died when just the two buildings
of the World Trade Center collapsed. Just imagine how many will die when
all of Manhattan comes down at once; along with Paris, London, Tokyo,
Seoul, Beijing, Moscow, Rome, Berlin, San Francisco, Los Angeles, and
Mexico City, et al. Among them will be thousands of innocent children-- all
collateral damage. And who's to blame for that? God? No; the parents; and
they will have to answer for putting their children in harm's way.

You want to talk about God's kindness and justice? Let's talk instead about
the kindness and justice of parents stupid enough to put their children in
harm's way by their impious conduct.

†. Jonah 4:9-11 . . God said to Jonah: Do you have a right to be angry about
the vine? I do; he said. I am angry enough to die. But the Lord said: You
have been concerned about this vine, though you did not tend it or make it
grow. It sprang up overnight and died overnight. But Nineveh has more than
a hundred and twenty thousand people who cannot tell their right hand from
their left, and many cattle as well. Should I not be concerned about that
great city?

Had the adults of Nineveh not repented at Jonah's preaching, 120,000
innocent children would have died as collateral damage in the destruction;
and it would have been all on the adults for putting Nineveh's children in
harm's way by their impious conduct. Think about that the next time you
feel the impulse to blaspheme God for what you perceive as His lack of
kindness and justice. It is you, and others like you, who are the real villains
in this. Blasphemers are nothing in the world but murderers and child
abusers; every one of them.

Pop Clock Update: 583 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 32,120,968 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.

FYI: the numbers to date are impressive. Were they to populate a Judge
Dredd penal colony, it would be a city whose population would be equal in
size to Tokyo's metropolitan area, and also a whole country equal in size
to Kenya's and Iraq's.

Buen Camino
/

 

[SelectThis!]

Baptism is being born again. The entire body is here. Christ is in heaven at the right hand of God. The body is here in the water. The narrow gate is repentance. Salvation from the water comes when Christ returns for those waiting for him (Hebrews 9:28). The person dies, but the soul lives on. You must be born again.

God is long-suffering. During the coming Day of the Lord, those who did not repent cannot put out the fires. Water puts out fire. Read Matthew 3.

They are still baptized. Spirit and Fire is the price paid. That is righteous judgment. Until then, we are in the water.

Read Heb 9:28. Where are we waiting?

 

[Webers_Home]

.
†. Num 16:25-34 . . Moses got up and went to Dathan and Abiram, and the
elders of Israel followed him. He warned the assembly: Move back from the
tents of these wicked men! Do not touch anything belonging to them, or you
will be swept away because of all their sins. So they moved away from the
tents of Korah, Dathan and Abiram. Dathan and Abiram had come out and
were standing with their wives, children and little ones at the entrances to
their tents.

. . . And Moses said: By this you shall know that Yhvh hath sent me to do all
things that you see, and that I have not forged them of my own head: If
these men die the common death of men, and if they be visited with a
plague, wherewith others also are wont to be visited, Yhvh did not send me.
But if Yhvh do a new thing, and the earth opening her mouth swallow them
down, and all things that belong to them, and they go down alive into the
netherworld, you shall know that they have blasphemed Yhvh.

. . . And immediately as he had made an end of speaking, the earth broke
asunder under their feet: and opening her mouth, devoured them with their
tents and all their substance. And they went down alive into the
netherworld, the ground closing upon them, and they perished from among
the people. But all Israel, that was standing round about, fled at the shrieks
of them that were perishing: saying: Lest perhaps the earth swallow us up
also.

When that earth fissure closed over those families, the rumble it made
signaled a terrifying finality. You just knew they weren't coming back. That
horrific scene would have to rate high on the list of your worst nightmares.
According to Num 16:27, the earth swallowed minor children alive too.

Bible passages like that one are very handy for setting people straight about
the kindness and love of God. Scores of children drowned in the Flood, more
children were incinerated in Sodom and Gomorrah, something like 120,000
minors would have perished in Nineveh had not the adults responded to
Jonah's preaching; and vast numbers of children will die by the future
calamities in the book of Revelation. I'm not saying children go to hell; nor
that the children in Num 16:25-34 went to hell. All I'm saying is, the justice
of God is not only thorough; but also thoroughly terrifying.

But someone will surely ask: Why did God kill the little ones pertaining to
Korah, Dathan and Abiram? What did they do to deserve such a fate? Well;
the sad fact of the matter is: they didn't do anything. It was just their dumb
luck to be in the families of those blasphemers when God set about to
exterminate not only the men; but also everything that pertained to them--
homes, clothing, shoes, mementoes, furniture, foodstuffs, wives, toys, cribs,
tools, dinnerware, sheets and blankets, and all their offspring. When God
was done, there was nothing left. Those men were so cleanly wiped off the
face of the earth that you couldn't even tell they had ever existed: they left
nothing behind; not even posterity-- same with the antediluvians and same
with Sodom and Gomorrah: all gone.

God's brand of justice is very difficult for the human mind to comprehend;
but that's no surprise considering that the human mind's sense of right and
wrong is produced by a three-pound lump of flabby organic tissue housed
within man's bony little skull; and not even all three of those pounds are
devoted to cognitive processes. When you get right down to it: the average
man is little more than human wildlife; just a beast-- a creature with the
heart and soul of a herd animal.

That's really tragic considering that in the beginning, man was manufactured
in the image of God. But being in the image of God isn't the same as
thinking like God. No; that's quite a bit different; and due to the forbidden
tree incident; man now thinks like himself.

†. Gen 3:22 . .Yhvh God said: The man has now become like one of us,
knowing good and evil.

In other words: man became his own God with his own sense of right and
wrong; viz: man's three pound-lump of flabby organic tissue sufficing for a
moral compass is his deity; making homo sapiens a rather unique idolater--
he worships and serves the human brain.

Pop Clock Update: 587 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 32,341,352 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.

Buen Camino
/

 

[SelectThis!]

Bible passages like that one are very handy for setting people straight about
the kindness and love of God. Scores of children drowned in the Flood, more
children were incinerated in Sodom and Gomorrah, something like 120,000
minors would have perished in Nineveh had not the adults responded to
Jonah's preaching; and vast numbers of children will die by the future
calamities in the book of Revelation. I'm not saying children go to hell; nor
that the children in Num 16:25-34 went to hell. All I'm saying is, the justice
of God is not only thorough; but also thoroughly terrifying.

Read my post above you. We misunderstand baptism. You MUST be born again. These harsh examples you see here are misunderstood if we forget that baptism is the immersion of the soul into the waters of life. Here is an example of something we would not see as moral ourselves.

Job's family was killed. Read Job 2.

3 Then the Lord said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil. And he still maintains his integrity, though you incited me against him to ruin him without any reason.”

4 “Skin for skin!” Satan replied.

When a snake sheds its skin, is it the same snake? What was Satan telling God here? The children would be back. Were they? We see this as too harsh apart from the correct view. The truth is that we have looped with our families for 6000 years. You are raising your future parents now if you have kids.

Hebrews 7

9 One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, 10 because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.

In other words, when Abraham paid the tenth to Melchizedek, Levi was still in his ancestors body. It's a mystery that can be solved. God is long-suffering. He knows what he is doing.

I have a thread on this topic here: LINKhttp://www.christianityboard.com/topic/19321-we-misunderstand-baptism-you-must-be-born-again/

 

[Webers_Home]

Read my post above you.

Friend, it's poor net manners to derail a topic by changing it's subject. If it is
your wish to discuss baptism; please create a topic of your own for it rather
than hijacking this one. Thank you.

Buen Camino
/

 

[SelectThis!]

Friend, it's poor net manners to derail a topic by changing it's subject. If it is
your wish to discuss baptism; please create a topic of your own for it rather
than hijacking this one. Thank you.

Buen Camino
/

My posts were on topic. A population clock of hell neglects to see the truth. Hell has been emptied. It is RESERVED for Satan and his Angels. I will respectfully bow out if you wish and link to the reason this is so: Where are All the Wicked Now

 

[Webers_Home]

I will respectfully bow out if you wish

See post #47


Buen Camino
/

 

[Webers_Home]

.
The torture that Jesus suffered on the cross was child's play in comparison
to the horrors and the miseries of souls in Hell. For one thing, his sufferings
barely lasted six hours (cf. Mark 15:25, Matt 27:46-50) not even one whole
day. People in hell go day, after day, after day, after day, after day,
infinitum.

Q: But if Jesus suffered only six hours, how can he possibly atone for people
facing an eternity in Hell?

A: That's easy. It wasn't Jesus' torture that atoned for Man's sins; it was the
loss of his life that did the trick. Jesus didn't have to go to the flames himself
in order to rescue people from flames; no, he only had to die.

†. Rom 6:23 . .The wages of sin is death

Individual human lives are of such low value that the most that anybody
could hope to die for is just one sin. In most cases; that leaves a pretty large
balance to atone for. In contrast; the value of the life of God's son is such
that his death can atone for an infinite number of everybody's sins.

†. 1Pet 1:18-20 . . For you know that God paid a ransom to save you from
the empty life you inherited from your ancestors. And the ransom he paid
was not mere gold or silver. He paid for you with the precious lifeblood of
Christ, the sinless, spotless Lamb of God.

Peter called the blood of Christ two things: a ransom and precious, meaning
it's like rare jewels and metals; very pricey. Nobody else's life is nearly as
valuable as Christ's life. Peter would never call regular human life rare and
pricey. Ordinary human lives are wholesale: they're cheap as the grass (Isa
40:6-7, 1Pet 1:24) just a dime a dozen and quite useless for redemption
purposes. Jesus' life is the only life God will accept for multiple sins: and the
alternative is infinite punishment because no amount of limited punishment
can ever equal the value of Christ's blood because not only is a life like
Christ's rare, but his is the only one like it in existence. (cf. Rom 3:9-20,
Heb 4:15, 1Pet 2:22, 1John 3:9)

Serial sinners are up a creek with no paddle because they have but two lives
to forfeit for sin-- the life they have now, and the one they'll have later at
their resurrection; but unfortunately, the first of those lives is ear-marked
for Adam's sin so they can't use it to atone for any of their own sins. And
when they're resurrected to stand trial at the Great White Throne event
depicted at Rev 20:11-15; that'll be their last life because according to Dan
12:2 and John 5:28-29 there's only one resurrection allotted per person.
And since the Bible's ratio is one life per one sin, then serial sinners will
come up short and never have sufficient lives to atone for a lifetime's
accumulation of sins.

Pop Clock Update: 592 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 32,616,832 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Far from being immortal, the natural-born human soul is quite susceptible to
termination.

†. Matt 10:28 . . Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill
the soul; but rather fear Him which is able to destroy both soul and body in
hell.

The koiné Greek word for "destroy" in that passage is apollumi (ap-ol'-loo
mee). Though that word doesn't always clearly indicate termination, in many
cases it does; for example:

Matt 2:13
Matt 12:14
Matt 26:52
Matt 27:20
Mark 9:22
Lk 6:9
Lk 11:51
Lk 15:17
Lk 17:27
John 10:28
John 18:14
1Cor 10:9-10
2Pet 3:6
Jude 1:5

However, the termination of one's body and soul doesn't terminate their
existence. There are scriptures here and there attesting to the fact that
people exist on the other side as spirits (Luke 16:19-31, Heb 12:23, 1Pet
3:19, Rev 7:9) and spirits are impervious to termination by the afterlife's
flames. I know that's true because the Devil is a spirit and he will go into the
lake of fire not to die; but to suffer. (Rev 20:10)

The reverse logic of the jingle below is amusing:

"Guns don't kill people: People kill people."

It says though a gun is potentially lethal, it isn't a sentient being with a mind
of its own. Nevertheless, the fact remains that guns are quite lethal, and
quite capable of killing people. In point of fact, according to a National
Safety Council report; in 2006 there was a total of 30,896 deaths by firearm
in the USA from all causes; both intentional and unintentional; both legal
and illegal.

Here's another selection of reverse logic.

"Hell doesn't kill souls; God kills souls."

Is that jingle the whole truth and nothing but the truth? No; of course not.
Though the Bible's hell is no more a sentient being with a mind of its own
than a gun, it is nevertheless quite lethal, and quite capable of killing souls.

The point is that a gun might terminate your body's life; but it cannot
terminate your soul's life. However, hell is far more powerful than a gun. It
will not only take your body's life, but it will take your soul's life too. To pull
the trigger, so to speak; all God has to do is drop you in there.

Q: if somebody is already dead, then how can hell kill their body?

A: The current hell doesn't kill the human body because when people die,
their bodies stay here rather than going there. But out ahead in the future;
people in the current hell will be resurrected to face justice at the Great
White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15. It is then when people's
bodies will be terminated by yet another hell; and since there is but one
resurrection allotted per person (Dan 12:2, John 5:28-29) then nobody is
coming back from the second death.

Pop Clock Update: 596 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 32,837,216 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Objection: There is a lake of fire depicted at Rev 20:11-15. Sorry; but it's
impossible to liquefy flame.

Rebuttal: According to Rev 20:10, the lake consists of not only fire; but also
a non-metallic substance called brimstone; which Webster's defines as sulfur.

Sulfur melts at 232.36º F and boils at 832.28º F. If sulfur's temperature is
maintained in that range; it easily suffices for an impoundment consisting of
both flame and liquid.

Pop Clock Update: 599 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 33,002,504 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Webers_Home]

.
According to post #1, an estimated 55,096 newbies arrive in hell every 24
hours on the clock from all over the world; which rounds out to something
like 20,110,040 souls per year; which if projected to the end of the 21st
century from today, 12/08/13, would eventually total 1.75 billion people;
and that's not factoring in all the people who have already lived and died
during the past centuries ever since the sixth day of Genesis. That's a lot of
people; and you have to wonder if the lower regions of the earth are
sufficient to hold those people. How will they all fit?

Well; according to 1Pet 3:18-20, the people in hades are interred there as
spirits-- which is a non material substance that takes up no space in the
material world.

A good case in point is the feral man of Mark 5:1-13 possessed by a
community of evil spirits who labeled themselves Legion. Webster's defines
a legion as the principal unit of the Roman army comprising 3,000 to 6,000
foot soldiers with cavalry. The spirits the Lord exorcised from the man went
out and possessed a herd of about 2,000 swine, so that's a pretty good
example of how spirits take up no room in the physical world; nor do they
crowd each other. All 3,000-6,000 of those spirits managed to fit inside the
bodily cargo area of just that one human being.

Just exactly how big demons are can't be known for certain. They could be
no bigger than a moth; or even as large as the Jolly Green Giant-- but the
point is, spirits take up no room in the physical world. So that the internal
regions of planet Earth (if that's where the hades of the Bible is) have plenty
of room for more and more occupants since people exist in the netherworld
as spirits rather than physical mortals because their bodies stay here when
they pass over to the other side. So then, all those 55,096 people from
around the world who died and transferred to hades yesterday, didn't create
a housing shortage when they arrived. No, they fit in quite easily; and
there's still plenty of room left for more since spirits don't need space: they
just need a place.

Pop Clock Update: 605 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 33,333,080 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Objection: Don't you know it's the kindness of God that leads men to
repentance rather than threats of justice? (Rom 2:4)

It is because God is kind that He warns His creatures about the horrors
waiting for them in the afterlife.

†. Luke 12:4-5 . . And I say unto you my friends; Be not afraid of them that
kill the body, and after that have no more that they can do. But I will
forewarn you whom ye shall fear: Fear Him, which after He hath killed hath
power to cast into hell; yea, I say unto you, Fear Him.

When I was working as a professional welder for the US Army Corps of
Engineers, we had weekly and monthly safety meetings wherein we were
shown some very grisly slides of real life industrial accidents involving burns,
chain saws, punctured eyes, explosions, falls, crane collapses, suffocation,
crushing, and the like. Let me tell you something: those slides got our
attention, and really made a sharp distinction between the fool and the wise.

†. Pro 22:3 . . A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes
precautions; the simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.

Is it a good idea to frighten people with graphic depictions of hell? Yes, I
think it is a very good idea to scare some sense into people; especially with
the fear of God.

If people had nothing to fear from the State; would everybody voluntarily
comply with the law? Would everybody voluntarily abstain from cheating on
their taxes, shop lifting, car theft, murder, riots, looting, forgery, perjury,
assault and battery, spousal abuse, child abuse, incest, rape, burglary,
vandalism, trespassing, slander, embezzling, forgery, identity theft, child
abuse, smuggling, animal cruelty, drugs, money laundering, counterfeiting,
loan sharking, terrorism, extortion, purse snatching, road rage, J-walking,
speeding, running red lights, passing illegally, et al, and et al? I don't think
so. It's only when people fear the State that most become law-abiding
citizens and walk the line.

I think if you would allow me to use a few things from everyday life where
fear has a positive effect, and always leads one to be wise; you might better
understand why it is wise to fear the Bible's God, and how that fear will lead
one's self to safety.

Are you a parent? When my boy was growing up, I used fear to wise him up
to the facts of life. Fear of rattlesnakes will save you from dying by snake
bite. Fear of electrocution will keep you from playing with bare wires. Fear of
liver failure will prevent you from eating wild toad stools. Fear of drowning
will make you wear a flotation device when out boating. Fear of poverty will
motivate you to learn a marketable skill. Fear of death and injury will make
you look both ways when crossing the street. Fear of burns will make you
keep your hands off a hot stove. Fear of prison will make you obey the law
and select your companions with care so you don't go down with them when
they commit crimes. Fear of losing your best friend will make you treat them
with respect and courtesy. And fear of Divine retribution will make you sit up
and pay attention to the purpose behind Christ's crucifixion. So you see, fear
is not always a bad thing.

I didn't subject my boy to all those fears because I was unkind. No. On the
contrary it was because I worried for my boy's safety and didn't want to see
him hurt. When people begin to get a sneaking suspicion that the hell of the
Bible just might be real, and that there's a very good chance they are
probably going to end up there; then they will be highly motivated to search
for a work-around to avoid it: a way that doesn't depend upon themselves,
but rather, upon a knight in shining armor; viz: a savior who demands only
that they fully trust in his proficiency as a rescuer. Then, and only then, are
they truly receptive to the good part of the gospel's news.

Pop Clock Update: 608 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 33,498,368 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Webers_Home]

.
Common Objection: According to the Christians; it is a "must" to believe
the Gospel in order to be spared the wrath of God. How is that fair for
peoples of the world who were never afforded an opportunity to hear it?

There seems to be a number of Christians running around loose out there
unaware of the everlasting gospel; which reads like this:

†. Rev 14:6-7 . . And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having
the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to
every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people, announcing with a loud
voice: Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come:
and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the
fountains of waters.

The everlasting gospel is very simple. Pretty much all it says is (1) there's a
supreme being, (2) there's a frightful reckoning looming on the horizon, and
(3) that the cosmos-- all of its forms of life, matter, and energy --is the
product of intelligent design.

Giving "glory" to God simply indicates giving someone credit where credit is
due; and "worship" basically just simply means admiration.

It's quite natural to admire celebrities, pro athletes, and super achievers;
and to give them credit where credit is due; but not quite so natural to do
the same for their creator, Anyway, point being: you either believe in
intelligent design, or you don't. If you do believe, then you will admire both
the originator's genius and His handiwork. If you don't believe; you won't
admire either. Simple as that.

The everlasting gospel is interesting in that it isn't preached by humans;
rather, it's preached by nature itself whose pulpit is everywhere, and speaks
its message in a thousand tongues.

†. Ps 19:1-4 . .The heavens declare the glory of God; the skies proclaim the
work of his hands. Day after day they pour forth speech; night after night
they display knowledge. There is no speech or language where their voice is
not heard. Their voice goes out into all the earth, their words to the ends of
the world.

God allows no excuse for disbelieving the everlasting gospel.

†. Rom 1:18-21 . .The wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all
ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in
unrighteousness; because what may be known of God is manifest in them,
for God has shown it to them. For since the creation of the world His
invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are
made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without
excuse.

It's humorous that when Europeans began invading the lands of North
America's native peoples, they thought it prudent to convert them to
Christianity. I really have to laugh at that because many of the peoples
whom the Europeans labeled "wild men" were already believing the
everlasting gospel centuries before the Europeans even dared to attempt
crossing the Atlantic ocean.

Can belief in the everlasting gospel save so-called uncivilized peoples? Of
course it can or why would the angel of Rev 14:6-7 bother to fly around the
world heralding it? I'll tell you one thing: there is far more hope for a pre
Columbus Iroquois than there is for a space-age atheist who has heard the
gospel of Christ as per Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John and scorned it.

Pop Clock Update: 616 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 33,939,136 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Webers_Home]

.
†. Matt 5:9 . . Blessed are the peacemakers

Peace is actually one of the negative aspects of heaven. Things like discord,
hatred, factions, cliques, mistrust, prejudice, bias, caste systems, double
standards, partiality, favoritism, deceit, surmising, dishonesty, gossip,
slander, sarcasm, cynicism, ridicule, envy, rivalry, resentment, avarice,
greed, gossip, character assassination, kangaroo courts, complaining,
tattling, meddling, confrontations, activism, quarrels, assertiveness, chafing,
trickery, grudging, stonewalling, bitterness, silent treatments, revenge,
stubbornness, cold shouldering, snobbery, egotism, dominance, demeaning
comments, fault-finding, insults, rebellion, arrogance, attitudes, subterfuge,
treachery, betrayal, suspicion, conceit, vanity, superiority complexes,
antisocial behaviors, sociopaths, crime, war, despotism, oppression,
injustice, civil rights abuses, etc, etc, et al and ad nausea don't exist there.
That could be a problem for people who thrive in a society where those
things are the norm.

I once heard a minister tell the story of a busload of hell's people who were
given a 30-day furlough for some R&R in heaven. They all came back the
first night because heaven was such a bore. There were no wild parties, no
clothing-optional beaches, no bars, no night clubs, no porn, no gambling, no
fighting, no pigging-out at buffets, no fights, no profanity, no fibbing, no free
sex, no vulgarity, no late night comedy, no exotic dancers, no X-rated
movies, no junk food, no tobacco, no marijuana, no meth, no ecstasy, no
LSD, no hunting for sport, and no fishing for sport, and no vices like
gambling and prostitution. And they couldn't see anything. The light in
heaven is so bright that were normal people to visit heaven, they'd have to
protect their eyes and the skin on their faces with leather jackets and
electric arc welding hoods.

And the hellsters didn't particularly care for the isolation. None of the good
folk in heaven wanted to associate with them: they were ostracized, they
were segregated, and they were quarantined.

Heaven is a pleasant utopia. It's etiquette, its dress code, and its rules of
conduct and civility; were way too strict for the hellsters. Especially
suffocating was the mandatory self control everyone had to exercise in their
choice of words to avoid hurting people's feelings.

In other words: heaven is a place prepared for a prepared people. Normal
people would quite naturally find heaven disagreeable-- they just wouldn't fit
in --especially with its lack of privacy, its 24-7 Big Brother oversight, and its
strict codes of conduct.

Take for example Wall Street barracudas. Do you really think they'd be
happy in heaven? No. Or sweat shop owners? No. Or influence peddlers?
No. Or cruel despots like Robert Mugabe and Kim Jong Un? No. Or adulterers
and fornicators? No. Or J-walking pedestrians? No. Or gays and lesbians?
No. Or greedy businessmen like Phil Knight, Donald Trump, and Bill Gates?
Or unscrupulous social networking moguls like Mark Zuckerberg? No. Or
bookies? Or activists? Or protesters? No. No. No. You see; many of the
things that hell's people do are unacceptable in heaven; and in point of fact,
none of heaven's people even have an interest in many of the things that
interest hell's people.

You know what else is lacking in heaven? Religious tolerance. There is only
one religion in heaven. What's that tell you? Well; it tells me that the
establishment clause of the US Construction's first amendment doesn't fly in
heaven. The government in heaven insists upon dictating everyone's
religious preference.

In other words; Heaven's utopian society, coupled with its 24/7 Big Brother
oversight, was just simply too much to ask in exchange for some time off. In
their opinion: heaven sucks.

Pop Clock Update: 620 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 34,159,520 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Webers_Home]

.
According to Jude 1:7, the people of Sodom and Gomorrah, and the towns in
their vicinity, gave themselves over to fornication and went after strange
flesh.

The word for "fornication" in that reference is ekporneuo (ek-porn-yoo'-o)
which means: to be utterly unchaste.

The word for "strange" is heteros (het'-er-os) which means: other or
different; which I think safe to assume is talking about bestiality within Jude.

People are sometimes curious as to why women were in those towns. Well;
in towns known for being utterly unchaste, I think you're probably going to
find a number of lesbians. Sodom, Gomorrah, and the other towns
roundabout were cities of refuge. In other words: they were communities
where gays and lesbians could find acceptance; which is what the hullabaloo
about same-sex marriage is really all about anyway. They want society to
stop treating them as sinners and freaks of nature-- they want to be treated
like normal people, and they want their lifestyle to stop being judged a
perversion and instead respected as an alternative.

There's a practical angle too. It's not unusual for gays and lesbians to want
children. Well; back in the day before artificial insemination and sperm banks
and such, men and women had to physically mate in order to have children.
Though gay men and lesbian women reserve their passions for same-sex
unions; they still need each other to reproduce.

Speaking of chastity: back in the decade of the 1950's, my sister, while in
high school, got herself knocked-up out of wedlock. So our parents whisked
her off to an out-of-state aunt until her baby was born; after which she gave
it up for adoption. You see, in those days pre-marital conception was a
disgrace; but nowadays celebrities go on talk shows to boast about their
illegitimate children; even babies conceived with other people before their
divorces are final; which is a double whammy of adultery and shame.

†. 2Pet 2:6 . . He turned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes--
condemned them to destruction --making them an example to those who
afterward would live ungodly.

Pop Clock Update: 623 days have elapsed since beginning the thread. If the
figures in post #1 are within reason, then something like 34,324,808 new
arrivals have checked into the fiery sector of hades since Apr 12, 2012.

Buen Camino
/

 

[Webers_Home]

oops

 

[aspen]

what a ridiculous thread

 

[Apocalypticist]

The math is bad for a number of reasons. Death rates vary by country.so when you're extrapolating based off the mortality rate in America the transition doesn't work.

Second, America's religious make-up is dissimilar to the rest of the world. Indonesia, Iran, and Iraq are mostly Islamic. Many African countries are Islamic and animistic. Italy and the Vatican are largely Catholic. Western Europe is thoroughly secular. It makes no sense to throw out a number like 51% as if it has any predictive value at all.

Third, you're not considering infant mortality

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_infant_mortality_rate

America's rate is about.5% About 4,000,000 children are born per year. So probably over 15,000 to nearly 20,000 are unfortunately deceased within the period that the United Nations are tracking for under the infant mortality death metric.

If you apply a 51% cut across the board, than about 10,000 of those babies will be burning in hell before January 1, 2013.

Additionally, infant mortality is much higher in Africa than it is in the industrialized world. Do you believe children who are not baptized will be condemned, like the Catholic church?

Fourth, how many abortions take place in the United States every year? 750,000 or so? What happens to those children, will they go into Purgatory or eternal torment, or do they go to heaven?

What about children who are too young to understand right or wrong? Are 49% of them judged to? How young is too young? 5? 7? 9?

And what about Down syndrome and chromosomal disorders? Are they judged at a rate of 49% to?

Your numbers just don't work.

It doesn't make sense for God to punish with torment children, the disabled, and other unfortunate just on an impulse. Any fair judge can see that someone with a chromosomal disorder is an unfortunate soul who should receive mercy.