Nothing much left to say
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I remember to well of a twelve year long friendship going down the toilet because the other party became absorbed into Mormonism. You can't do nothing, nothing about someone when they believe they know the truth. I know the culprit is believing itself, because it's the only constant. I remember wasting so much energy on trying to prove to my friend that Mormonism didn't add up logically, wasn't even consistent with biblical doctrine. Poor guy believed that the sabbath rest was on sunday not saturday, believing that the Jews were wrong.
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I don’t doubt it. You aren’t in control of your mental faculties - exhibiting yourself a threat to yourself and to others. You need professional assistance. I’ve done what I can for you. Your blood - in this age and/or the age to come - isn’t on my head.
Please - for your sake and for the sake of others -,seek out the care that you need.
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Have you actually done anything? Other than hide behind a religious belief system all the while baiting people into reactions. My destruction in your mind is now complete? Well thankyou. You can give up on me now and stop trying to save me.
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Have you actually done anything? Other than hide behind a religious belief system all the while baiting people into reactions. My destruction is complete? Well thankyou. You can give up on me now and stop trying to save me
I don’t save anyone. Jesus Christ saves.
Lapidem
Active Member
Forgive me but that's a total evasion of my question and a total diversion.
I ask again, do you think it would be a good reward to be granted eternal life but as my personal gardener, tending my plants, mowing my lawn, pruning my shrubs? It's a simple enough question.
Lapidem
Active Member
Really? Who gets to define what normal is?
Is it normal to accept a life in slavery, chained to various systems of control that ensure you never get far in life, can't get too wealthy, can't be healthy, have a very short life span?
The truth is that contemplating suicide or one's death is actually an incredibly mature thing to do. It means a person is truly thinking about who they are, what their existence is really about and whether it is a worthwhile existence or whether its a contrived existence we were born into that is effectively a prison. Those people who have never contemplated ending their lives at some point are the mindless brainwashed Sheeple I would suggest who just trudge along on the conveyor belt they were placed on from birth and haven't the gumption to even wonder why they are on it nor to see how their existence is one of slavery and pretty much a travesty.
Lifeline Australia - 13 11 14 - Crisis Support. Suicide Prevention.
Lifeline is a national charity providing all Australians experiencing a personal crisis with access to 24 hour crisis support and suicide prevention services.
www.lifeline.org.au
"Jesus saves" is just a catchphrase, it's hollow and meaningless. It's like the phrase "Jesus love's you" completely meaningless, because Jesus can never not love you. So what are people really saying? Nothing, just like the phrase "How are you?" Or "Are you good?" Absolutely nothing. It's just a method for people to keep moving without the slightest care to stop and pay attention.
You explained the very dilemma I face. I can't go along with the conveyer belt that I was hatched on. I am so clucked.
If our will becomes equal to God's will, how could it ever be a living hell? God does not change, but we need to change... to become more like Him. And the final result for us should then be this:
| 1jo 3:2 | Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. |
Lapidem
Active Member
I got fed up of it too. When I got the chance I took voluntary redundancy from my career. I determined that I was not going to spend my precious life hours toiling away for thankless masters, particularly morons who were incompetent and had only ben promoted into their management positions through being members of the old boys club. I was done with the rat race conveyor belt. F*ck em.
Fortunately I had a good pension and cashed in the 25% I was allowed to and later started drawing monthly pension payments at the age of 55.
I resolved to live frugally. Divested myself of all wants and desires. No smart phones, no Netflix, Amazon Prime or other subscription garbage. No contracts of any kind.
I have never looked back.
When I wake up in the morning I decide to either get up or stay in bed. I have no schedules. I don't wear a watch.
Every day I decide what I might like to do. I might go and sit in a coffee shop with a nice latte and watch the world go by. I might stay at home. Might sit in the sun reading books, studying texts or sit with my laptop reading forums and posting stuff.
This is my life. I will live it how I want to and if in doing so someone comes and locks me away for some ridiculous reason, like refusing harmful vaccines then so be it. Better to die on you feet than live on your knees.
I know/sense your situation is far worse and desperate than mine but regardless there comes a time when you realise you are a human being and you only have shackles on your ankles if you voluntarily let others put them there or if you put them on yourself. The truth is there are no rules. Everything is permitted. But other humans got there first a long time ago, they did what they wanted to do, likely killed lots of people in the process and now they are the top dogs running the show. They rule by shackling everyone else and surround themselves with armies like the police.
All you can do is live the life you want to live until someone physically stops you.
I'm obviously not here to try and change you into something like the religious nutballs here. That's not the answer.
The answer is for you to live the life you want in the circumstances you currently find yourself in.
You are a free person. You don't need to ask others what to do or how you should live. Only you know what you want. Go and do it.
Find a way to have the life you want. Little steps. Establish a time for yourself every day even if it's just a few moments. This will be YOUR time and you'll do what you want to do in that time regardless of anything else. It's your life. Cast off all the shackles you can, you don't need them. If you're struggling with money or drink or drugs then resolve to take off those shackles. Go sign up with a support centre in your town/city and make the choice to follow their pathways to recovery. Or not. Your choice.
You are not a failure. You are simply you and I personally wouldn't want you to be anyone other than yourself, warts 'n' all.
Live your life, be free
Lapidem
Active Member
It depends what you want for yourself. Do you want to be my personal gardener, do you want to mow my lawn, prune my shrubs, water my plants? I mean sure if that's what you want your life to be then you'd enjoy doing it eternally. I suspect however that you probably don't want to be my gardener.
And here we come back to the notion of free will. It is I think in our nature to want to be free, to be able to do the things we want to do, not what someone else wants us to do. Even if at times our will corresponds to that of someone else and we might walk the same path temporarily, ultimately humans desire to be free and to exercise their own will.
Living a life of subservience to someone else does not deliver that even if sometimes your will aligns with that someone else.
My will might align with say a charity who desires to help the homeless in my local city but that doesn't mean I want to spend an eternity in that way. Ultimately I want to be free. Free to make my own choices, free to go where I will, free to do what I will. The only thing that prevents this are the actions of tyrants who take control of everything, who establish THEIR laws and enforce THEIR will on everyone else. An eternity in subservience to such an entity is not a pleasant thought or notion.
Humans should be free. Unshackled. Unrestrained.
So you believe god is still the same jealous wrathful mass murder that he is portrayed as in the OT. A god that kills men, women, children, babies and even as yet unborn babies on a whim, when he chooses, when he gets angry? Do I want to spend an eternity with such an entity????
QuantumBit
Active Member
Indeed, this is a tough one to believe.
Although their deaths appear to be skipped over, I believe it is implied by adding all of the evidence. The process of piecing everything together took me a long time to do as I had to overcome my own bias.
For example, if we take God's warning in Genesis 2:17 literally, then we must add that to the equation and presume that the couple really did die, just as God said, otherwise, we are back to the old contradictions of 'day is not day' and 'surely die is not surely die'.
Another piece of evidence we can add is that, at the very least, God did something to Eve to fundamentally change her DNA to experience pain during child birth...
Genesis 3:16
"Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee."
In my opinion, even the slightest modification to a person's DNA makes them a new creation. That is why Ishshah received a new name.
Thus, we can now add this...
Genesis 2:19
"And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof."
Whenever God made a new creature, Adam named it. And whatever Adam called the new creature, that was their name.
Genesis 3:20
"And Adam called his wife’s name Eve; because she was the mother of all living."
Why is she called the 'Mother of all living'? I believe it is because Eve will now reproduce through conception.
For what it is worth, I interpret Genesis 3:16 as God literally gave Eve a uterus and reproductive organs. In other words, Conception was created for the first time at that moment. The whole point of the Forbidden Fruit was to incarnate into a body with 'beast genetics' to experience what God reserved for the Beasts only, i.e., sex.
Since animals were not capable of reproduction via manipulating the dust of the ground and ribs, God gave them reproductive organs. That was their special gift to keep them happy in Life. Eve wanted that, so she partook of the Forbidden Fruit Ovum that was fertilized by the Seed of the Serpent. Satan was a beast, and we all now share his Genetics.
When Jesus says things like 'Ye are of your Father the Devil'. It is absolutely literal and applies to all Humans. Satan became our Earthly Father. This is why we need to be re-created into Abraham's Seed, which is symbolic of the Glorified Body. Our Genetics were changed because of the Forbidden Fruit. We were 'dumbed down' to be more 'beast like'. It sucks, but that is how I interpret it.
There are a lot of folks who remember their past lives. I have listened to many vivid stories told by innocent children who have nothing to gain by lying.
When the Bible says things like 'God saw that it was good', I do not interpret that as 'absolutely perfect'.
As I mentioned earlier, the First Adam and Ishshah chose to be imperfect. It was free will. God then honored their request by reforming them with beast Genetics from Satan and the Mystery Mother.
When God said...
Genesis 1:26
"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
...I believe the 'us' is God, Satan and the Mystery Mother. We are made in the image of all three.
Now, although the story is not as cut and dry as we would like, I believe this was done on purpose. The entire creation account is told in a very compressed and consolidated manner so that the Student must spend a lot of time studying the rest of the Bible in order to 'unpack' and decompress and decipher the message.
Another reason this was done was to somewhat 'occult' and hide the message of reincarnation from the 'profane' so to speak. It is a Bible I.Q. test.
God want us to be free from sin and the ways of men which when followed lead us to sin. This means less of us and more of Him:
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There are shadows and there is Reality. The latter is God. Men who have not come to know God have no Reality in His eyes and are themselves blind and deaf to God Himself. What we may or may not have in the eyes of men is fictional although men may call it otherwise. How the OT fits into and with the NT is not visible to those living in death. Only a glimmer was theirs at natural birth. If the glimmer never is brightened by what Jesus brought it will die out finally leaving no hope at all.
Lapidem
Active Member
But you still ignore the text. It states that the woman ate from the tree then handed the fruit to the man. She could not have done so if the fruit killed her unless you're going to speculate that the poison or whatever it was took time to kill them but then once again you would straying into the world of invention.
Had the woman instantly died and had god recreated her in an instant, why would she then pick up the fruit and hand it to the man? She would surely know that it would kill him and presumably the man, having seen the woman drop dead before him would in no way accept the fruit from her let alone eat it himself.
No I'm afraid I can't adhere to your interpretations given the text.
Also because I know the story to bee allegorical for other reasons.
Genesis conceals the secrets of alchemy, its basic principles, that of the male and female principle of all things, the joining together of the male and female principles, the process of cohobation, gentle distillation causing vapour to rise, condense and fall back down and so on.
The story is there as padding to hold the allegorical secret. It is not literal.
She can not possibly be the mother of all living for as you know, the rest of mankind, both male and female were created by god on the 6th day. And again I put it to you that if your concept of god is one that is perfect and one that can only create perfect things, then all the humans he created could not have inherited any genetic problems handed down from Adam. They would be new creations, sinless, blameless, not requiring redemption.
I agree that Genesis and elsewhere are effectively cryptic crossword puzzles waiting to be deciphered by the learned and those with the "eyes to see" that Jesus spoke of.
However I fear that you missed the cryptic allegorical message which is all the aspects of alchemy that I spoke about above.
If you wish I can explain it.
Lapidem
Active Member
There you go. God wants. God's will. God's freedom. God's rule. Not ours
This is evasion. The OT clearly paints god as a vengeful tyrant whose anger and frustration results in him going on mass killing sprees to the extent that innocent babies and unborn babies get slaughtered in the process. Also ethnic cleansing, child mauling and a whole host of other pretty nasty behaviours. I put it to you that someone who is not discerning about the role models they choose to follow is a questionable person, for otherwise we might just as well worship Hitler or Pol Pott or Jimmy Savile.
Do as I say, not as I do, are the watchwords of tyrants and dictators.
There can be no peace, freedom or happiness whilst existing under the cosh of such a tyrant. It is for these kind of reasons that I know the defacto Christian concept of god to be in error.
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