The Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus

[David in NJ]

Quoting Mat 13:34 is a common error by those who seek to promote Luke 16:19-31 as a parable.

Example: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

John 3:16 is just a parable according to your interpretation of Matthew 13:34.

And this is just one of many examples of TRUTH that are not parables which JESUS spoke.

Peace

 

[amigo de christo]

Peace

never forget this my friend . There are many progressive inclusvists among us
who believe its no longer necessary to BELIEVE ON CHRIST JESUS . And they will twist anything they can as they do other
scrips unto their own destruction . be encouraged in the LORD my friend and stand and contend
for the true faith till the last and final breath .

 

[FaithWillDo]

Quoting Mat 13:34 is a common error by those who seek to promote Luke 16:19-31 as a parable.

Example: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

John 3:16 is just a parable according to your interpretation of Matthew 13:34.

And this is just one of many examples of TRUTH that are not parables which JESUS spoke.

Dear David in NJ,
In John 3:16, Jesus is not teaching the "multitudes". He is privately teaching Nicodemus. When Christ taught in public like He does in Luke 16:19-31, He only taught in parables.
Joe

 

[amigo de christo]

Boy, you can stretch anything with these non-parable parables......

Its called pretzel doctrine . They twist it up in order to fit an agenda .
Peter was right . Many twist scrips unto their own destruction . But not lambs . Nope we love every word of the LORD .

 

[amigo de christo]

"There was a rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day.

So the parable starts with a rich man wearing purple clothing so the imagery immediately takes our minds to the priestly garments in Exodus 28:2,5:

Have them use gold, and blue, purple and scarlet yarn, and fine linen.

The Parable scene is set with the Religious elite firmly in focus.

It also contains an echo of the Apostate Church in Revelation 18:12,16 (parables can have present day applications)

View attachment 32468

Notice the sting in Christ's comment regarding them feasting "everyday"...what do you think he was referring to?

a wolf in purple . Beware that man at all costs . He is false and is leading the world and her religions
into a universal religoin which cannot and will not save them .

 

[face2face]

@marks & @David in NJ

Lets try you both at the same time shall we?

Why does Jesus use the symbol of the burning tip of the finger and the tongue in verse 24?

We know this is not a literal event...its designed as a judgement against the Pharisees & Saducees - this shouldn't be diffucult for you to answer.

F2F

 

[face2face]

While they are working on that puzzle, lets press on with the study.

So we understood why the name "Lazarus" was introduced, due to it's meaning and relevance to the story at hand "God is my only Help" whereby, we know the Pharisees were meant to be protectors of the people, however they actually oppressed them severley. They were to teach with knowledge on thier lips, but instead they removed that key of knoweldge for want of power and authority.

So why would Jesus introduce Abraham? Why not Moses? or one of the Prophets?

“Into Abraham’s bosom”

Well, they claimed Abraham as their Father, and beleive their natural lineage gave them claim to the promises of God, but they were wrong!

The bosom is also figurative of honoured place at feasts - See John 13:23 and of a most intimate relationship John 1:18, Num 11:12

Its a sad dipiction of a deluded misguided people who beleived they would be with Abraham & their God forever. This Parable reveals it couldnt be further from the truth!

F2F

 

[David in NJ]

Dear David in NJ,
In John 3:16, Jesus is not teaching the "multitudes". He is privately teaching Nicodemus. When Christ taught in public like He does in Luke 16:19-31, He only taught in parables.
Joe

Once again you are in error as John 3:16 is the most public statement of Jesus to 'multitudes'.

Example #2 : Luke 16:14-18

Jesus teaching in public to 'multitudes':

The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all of this and were scoffing at Jesus. So He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is prized among men is detestable before God.

The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the gospel of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for a single stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and he who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

 

[Marvelloustime]

Its called pretzel doctrine . They twist it up in order to fit an agenda .
Peter was right . Many twist scrips unto their own destruction . But not lambs . Nope we love every word of the LORD .

 

[FaithWillDo]

Once again you are in error as John 3:16 is the most public statement of Jesus to 'multitudes'.

Example #2 : Luke 16:14-18

Jesus teaching in public to 'multitudes':

The Pharisees, who were lovers of money, heard all of this and were scoffing at Jesus. So He said to them, “You are the ones who justify yourselves before men, but God knows your hearts. For what is prized among men is detestable before God.

The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the gospel of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than for a single stroke of a pen to drop out of the Law.

Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery, and he who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Dear David in NJ,
Here is the scripture which leads into Christ's statement of John 3:16:

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Nicodemus came to Christ by night. When Christ responded to him, it was in private and not to the multitudes. Why do you not believe this scripture?

As for Luke 16:14-18, it is a part of the 5 parable teachings of Christ which began at the start of chapter 15:

Luke 15:1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. 2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them. 3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying...

This 5 parable section of scripture which continues into chapter 16 was made to the multitudes which consisted of publicans, sinners, Pharisees and scribes. It was not done in private as was Christ's teachings to Nicodemus in John chapter 3.

This is not hard to understand but evidently it is very difficult for you to accept because you are so locked into the false teachings of the apostate church. Where is your "love for the truth"?

Joe

 

[David in NJ]

Dear David in NJ,
Here is the scripture which leads into Christ's statement of John 3:16:

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Nicodemus came to Christ by night. When Christ responded to him, it was in private and not to the multitudes. Why do you not believe this scripture?

As for Luke 16:14-18, it is a part of the 5 parable teachings of Christ which began at the start of chapter 15:

Luke 15:1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. 2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them. 3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying...

This 5 parable section of scripture which continues into chapter 16 was made to the multitudes which consisted of publicans, sinners, Pharisees and scribes. It was not done in private as was Christ's teachings to Nicodemus in John chapter 3.

This is not hard to understand but evidently it is very difficult for you to accept because you are so locked into the false teachings of the apostate church. Where is your "love for the truth"?

Joe

i SEE it is very hard for you understand because you choose to believe in 'parables' that are not parables.

No one here is arguing against any of the parables that Jesus spoke.

What you are doing is making a false claim against what the LORD Jesus spoke = that is the critical issue at hand.......

 

[Marvelloustime]

a wolf in purple . Beware that man at all costs . He is false and is leading the world and her religions
into a universal religoin which cannot and will not save them .

 

[marks]

@marks & @David in NJ

Lets try you both at the same time shall we?

Why does Jesus use the symbol of the burning tip of the finger and the tongue in verse 24?

We know this is not a literal event...its designed as a judgement against the Pharisees & Saducees - this shouldn't be diffucult for you to answer.

F2F

As you know we have a different frame of reference on this, so continuing to ask how we should identify the symbols in this parable will be met with the same response, back up to your presupposition that this is a parable that requires you to provide your opinions of how it should be interpretted as we examine every detail.

Were it to be be a parable, that's not how you go about interpreting parables. They are a story told of familiar things intended to get a point across.

What is the message to us as we simply look at what Jesus told us was happening there? Is there a Scriptural harmony? There is.

Were it to be a parable, your interpretations are only as valid as you have Scripture passages that authenticate them for you.

There has been exactly One Person in the history of this world qualified to talk about what happens after people die. Do you think He intended to mislead the world? Or to teach the world?

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Dear David in NJ,
Here is the scripture which leads into Christ's statement of John 3:16:

John 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: 2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Nicodemus came to Christ by night. When Christ responded to him, it was in private and not to the multitudes. Why do you not believe this scripture?

As for Luke 16:14-18, it is a part of the 5 parable teachings of Christ which began at the start of chapter 15:

Luke 15:1 Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him. 2 And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them. 3 And he spake this parable unto them, saying...

This 5 parable section of scripture which continues into chapter 16 was made to the multitudes which consisted of publicans, sinners, Pharisees and scribes. It was not done in private as was Christ's teachings to Nicodemus in John chapter 3.

This is not hard to understand but evidently it is very difficult for you to accept because you are so locked into the false teachings of the apostate church. Where is your "love for the truth"?

Joe

You said: "This is not hard to understand but evidently it is very difficult for you to accept because you are so locked into the false teachings of the apostate church. Where is your "love for the truth"?"

i just read this last statement of yours and found it to be quite judgmental and against the will of God for your walk.

The fact that i am pointing out to you that Luke 16:14-31 is not a parable is the Love of the Truth and for you.

Secondly, i am not part of any apostate church as i belong to Christ and am sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Thirdly, you need some self inspection here as it is you who are "locked in" on claiming a 'parable' when it is not.

What is it in Luke 16:19-31 that you disagree with?

Do you believe in soul sleep?

 

[face2face]

As you know we have a different frame of reference on this, so continuing to ask how we should identify the symbols in this parable will be met with the same response, back up to your presupposition that this is a parable that requires you to provide your opinions of how it should be interpretted as we examine every detail.

Were it to be be a parable, that's not how you go about interpreting parables. They are a story told of familiar things intended to get a point across.

What is the message to us as we simply look at what Jesus told us was happening there? Is there a Scriptural harmony? There is.

Were it to be a parable, your interpretations are only as valid as you have Scripture passages that authenticate them for you.

There has been exactly One Person in the history of this world qualified to talk about what happens after people die. Do you think He intended to mislead the world? Or to teach the world?

Much love!

Firstly, you would need to acknowledge this account stands as a judgement against the Pharisees and Saducees. You would also need to explain the symbols used in verse 24, as clearly they are not literal events. To establish this, lets ask you further questions of the text, to see if your interpretation can be scripturally supported?


Marks, as a heads up, I will be holding you to these points and expect more of a response than you have done so previously.

1. Do you agree the story does not mention Heaven or Souls?
2. If you are an immortal soul believer, you have the following issues to overcome:
a. Do you agree the story only contains bodies, not souls, such as, eyes, bosom (verse 23) tip of finger and tongue (in verse 24). What this means is someone who believed in the immortal soul is not able to use this story to prove an ethereal spirit, of some sort, lives after death. Once again this proves Jesus is using the Pharisees false beliefs against them in this story.
b. Lets continue dealing with those who believe a soul should be immaterial - if so, how could Lazarus (if a soul) be carried by angles?
c. Do you take the great gulf between Abraham and the rich man as being literal? If so, for Heaven going believers, do they see this as their reward being able to look into this feiry place and likewise in reverse? Doesn’t sound very pleasant Marks!
d. If you believe the story is litera,l is the Heaven you (and others) believe in, a place where conversations can be carried on between those enjoying bliss and those agonizing in hell? Again, can you provide a Scriptural support for your answer here!
e. How could Lazarus go literally to Abraham's bosom? We are told emphatically that Abraham (and all those with him) are unquestionably dead and without his reward.

Evidence:

Vr 8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.

Vr13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance, admitting that they were foreigners and strangers on earth.

Vr39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised,

Vr40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Abraham, like David is dead and buried and his grave is known to God as it was to the Jews 2000 years ago. Acts 2:29

There is a lot more to discuss but I think enough here for you to deal with.

God bless
F2F

 

[face2face]

@David in NJ we have seen how you have disregarded the start of Luke 16:1 (as being a parable) and Luke 16:19 (as being a parable) out of interest would you also apply Luke 12:16 as being literal as well?

 

[marks]

Abraham, like David is dead and buried and his grave is known to God as it was to the Jews 2000 years ago. Acts 2:29

Are you promoting "soul sleep" or the like?

Remember what Jesus said, God is the God of the living, not the dead.

Much love!

 

[marks]

a. Do you agree the story only contains bodies, not souls, such as, eyes, bosom (verse 23) tip of finger and tongue (in verse 24). What this means is someone who believed in the immortal soul is not able to use this story to prove an ethereal spirit, of some sort, lives after death. Once again this proves Jesus is using the Pharisees false beliefs against them in this story.

Not a problem as this would be phenomenal language. Shouldn't we leave aside these elementary points?

Just the same, I realize you are coming to this narrative with the view that no one can be conscious following their death on earth, is that correct?

And as I mentioned in the other post, Jesus refuted that fully.

Much love!

 

[face2face]

Are you promoting "soul sleep" or the like?

Remember what Jesus said, God is the God of the living, not the dead.

Much love!

Prefer you to deal with the text Mark's...it appears as though you prefer to explain away the text. If Hebrews 11 teaches you Abraham is alive and well this day and has received the promises and been made perfect, say so.
F2F

 

[face2face]

Not a problem as this would be phenomenal language.

Phenomenal language you say! Sounds like you are describing a parable!

Shouldn't we leave aside these elementary points?

No, they should be dealt with regardless how uncomfrotable they are to answer.

Just the same, I realize you are coming to this narrative with the view that no one can be conscious following their death on earth, is that correct?

And as I mentioned in the other post, Jesus refuted that fully.

Much love!

If you suggest the Bible teaches consciousness post death, teach away! But dont use Luke 16 - hands off that text it is miles away from immortal soulism.

Can you show an ethereal Spirit living after a person dies in the Bible?

Hmmmm.