Our hands have handle

[face2face]

I'd like to consider a positive study of John's 1st Epistle.

Over the years, I've done a number of studies / talks on these Epistles and found them exceedingly rich with insight and comfort.

Looking at all three from the heights of an eagle, you could say their emphasis has the following focus:

1 John — The true gospel and the church.
2 John — The true gospel and the home.
3 John — The true gospel and the individual.

In this thread we will be focusing on the true gospel, as it is revealed in and through the body of Christ over 2000 years ago. It will be challenging in places and thought provoking I hope.

1 John - urges the church to oppose error in its midst
2 John - shows that the home should be closed to those who propagate error
3 John - reveals how individuals should resist those who set themselves up against Apostolic authority.

It is clear that the "idea" of Jesus not being raised up in flesh and blood (nature) had already come into the body, hence the importance of the title for this OP.

So lets begin:

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life 1 John 1:1

I will be highlighting the section in the verse being considered to help us focus on what is being taught.

Immediately John is teaching there are things hidden with the Father, which have now been revealed in and by the Lord Jesus Christ. These "hidden things" have been in the mind of God from the beginning and is His Divine Wisdom. Jesus taught that the doctrine he preached came from God, his Father.

So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. John 7:16
Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.” John 8:47

(Note the importance of Jesus being of God, as we are who listen)

Of course, if this doctrine was his own, as part of a truine Godhead, Jesus would claim it as his own. This is not the case.

F2F

 

[1stCenturyLady]

I'd like to consider a positive study of John's 1st Epistle.

Over the years, I've done a number of studies / talks on these Epistles and found them exceedingly rich with insight and comfort.

Looking at all three from the heights of an eagle, you could say their emphasis has the following focus:

1 John — The true gospel and the church.
2 John — The true gospel and the home.
3 John — The true gospel and the individual.

In this thread we will be focusing on the true gospel, as it is revealed in and through the body of Christ over 2000 years ago. It will be challenging in places and thought provoking I hope.

1 John - urges the church to oppose error in its midst
2 John - shows that the home should be closed to those who propagate error
3 John - reveals how individuals should resist those who set themselves up against Apostolic authority.

It is clear that the "idea" of Jesus not being raised up in flesh and blood (nature) had already come into the body, hence the importance of the title for this OP.

So lets begin:

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life 1 John 1:1

I will be highlighting the section in the verse being considered to help us focus on what is being taught.

Immediately John is teaching there are things hidden with the Father, which have now been revealed in and by the Lord Jesus Christ. These "hidden things" have been in the mind of God from the beginning and is His Divine Wisdom. Jesus taught that the doctrine he preached came from God, his Father.

So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. John 7:16
Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.” John 8:47

(Note the importance of Jesus being of God, as we are who listen)

Of course, if this doctrine was his own, as part of a truine Godhead, Jesus would claim it as his own. This is not the case.

F2F

Just as I've been given the mind of Christ; Jesus when He was in his human form had the mind of the Father.

 

[face2face]

Just as I've been given the mind of Christ; Jesus when He was in his human form had the mind of the Father.

Scripture teaches the mind of Christ is something developed in us, rather than simply given, would you agree?

The struggle with that nature which Christ had, is same for us:- "Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died (as Christ did), and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. Col 3:2

Thanks
F2F

 

[face2face]

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life 1 John 1:1

It's right that John records these words is'nt it? After all he was the last of the Apostles and in a way represented them all! He saw the Divine works and Divine Wisdom revealed in Christ.

The context is clear...this great Power was always with God (singular) from the beginning but revealed through the begotten son.

Where I can I want to provide sound Scriptural references which speak to these words of John.

“I have testimony weightier than that of John (the Baptist). For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. John 5:36

“Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know. Acts 2:22

I like how the Apostles explained God Manifestation to the hearers. It's something I am looking forward to hearing from Christians one day when the Lord returns.

The idea of Jesus being accredited by God as one who is His witness, works perfectly into those words "we have seen with our eyes!", God working through Jesus.

Heard, seen and now handled!

F2F

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Scripture teaches the mind of Christ is something developed in us, rather than simply given, would you agree?

The struggle with that nature which Christ had, is same for us:- "Set your minds on things above, not on earthly things. For you died (as Christ did), and your life is now hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is your life, appears, then you also will appear with him in glory. Col 3:2

Thanks
F2F

Jesus had a human nature, but it didn't have sin in it. Just free will. In fact, because He was conceived with the Seed of the Father, He couldn't sin, just like those who are born again who are like Jesus. We cannot commit sins unto death either because our conscience won't let us without a lot of guilt. Jesus took away our desire to break God's Law, and made it easy to be sinless. Why sin when you don't have to anymore because our nature is no longer a sin nature. We partake of the divine nature of God.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

The idea of Jesus being accredited by God as one who is His witness, works perfectly into those words "we have seen with our eyes!"

Where is Jesus God's witness in 1 John 1:1?

 

[face2face]

Jesus had a human nature, but it didn't have sin in it.

No one has sin in their nature 1st. We all share in the same nature which has the propensity to sin.

You understand this right?

"For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Heb 2:17

The next step in your learning is understanding why Jesus had your nature (super important)...its a little off topic for now, but I'm sure we will arrive at this, at some point.
F2F

 

[face2face]

Where is Jesus God's witness in 1 John 1:1?

That's the whole point of 1 John 1:1 (heard, seen handled!)...the things of God through Christ Jesus - the answer to your question is 1 John 1:1

“Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him (Jesus), as you yourselves know. Acts 2:22

Are you saying "you yourself do not know?"

The man Jesus of Nazareth witnessed God's Power by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did "through" him.

Surely you are not opposing this truth?

This study in 1 John will be challenging for you, no doubt. Early days!

F2F

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No one has sin in their nature 1st. We all share in the same nature which has the propensity to sin.

You understand this right?

The human nature even when we are born has the influence of Satan in it due to Adam handing over dominion to Satan. Jesus didn't, because His father was God, not a human. It is in the seed, thus not Mary.

9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

That's the whole point of 1 John 1:1 (heard, seen handled!)...the things of God through Christ Jesus - the answer to your question is 1 John 1:1

John is talking about himself, that he handled Jesus. John witnessed Jesus personally.

 

[face2face]

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life 1 John 1:1

1 John 1:1 is an assault on the senses (ears, eyes & touch) that John had witnessed what we know as the Word of Life. Whoever the Christ is, in him, was witnessed the hidden things of God.

The Greek θεάομαι (theaomai), see; look at; behold signifies "to contemplate earnestly with regard and admiration".

Did you know we get the word "theatre." - amazing!

The Apostles had "looked upon" or "earnestly beheld" the Divine ways or character as it was revealed in the Lord, and therefore saw God manifest in the flesh

For I have come down from heaven "not to do my will" but to do the will of him who sent me. (John 6:38)

Blue text is a major problem, if not dealt with very carefully! We Will!

“I (Jesus) have revealed you (God) to those (disciples and us) whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. (John 6:38)

It really helpful to insert who is being referenced, as it provides us important information about who is witnessing Who!

Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: who appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory. (1 Tim 3:16)

All expressions of God being revealed through the Lord Jesus Christ.

These things the Apostle experienced with his major senses.

F2F

 

[1stCenturyLady]

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life 1 John 1:1

1 John 1:1 is an assault on the sensors (ears, eyes & touch) that John had witnessed what we know as the Word of Life. However the Christ is, in him, was witnessed the hidden things of God.

The Greek θεάομαι (theaomai), see; look at; behold signifies "to contemplate earnestly with regard and admiration".

Did you know we get the word "theatre." - amazing!

The Apostles had "looked upon" or "earnestly beheld" the Divine ways or character as it was revealed in the Lord, and therefore saw God manifest in the flesh

For I have come down from heaven "not to do my will" but to do the will of him who sent me. (John 6:38)

Blue text is a major problem, if not dealt with very carefully! We Will!

“I (Jesus) have revealed you (God) to those (disciples and us) whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word. (John 6:38)

It really helpful to insert who is being referenced, as it provides us important information about who is witnessing Who!

Beyond all question, the mystery from which true godliness springs is great: who appeared in the flesh, was vindicated by the Spirit,
was seen by angels, was preached among the nations, was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory. (1 Tim 3:16)

All expressions of God being revealed through the Lord Jesus Christ.

These things the Apostle experienced with his major sensors.

F2F

What is your point?

 

[face2face]

The human nature even when we are born has the influence of Satan in it due to Adam handing over dominion to Satan. Jesus didn't, because His father was God, not a human. It is in the seed, thus not Mary.

I wont get drawn into this now if that's okay 1st. It's possible you may have some things going on here which are introduced knowledge to the original gospel. Lets progress with the study to see where it leads us.

John is talking about himself, that he handled Jesus. John witnessed Jesus personally.

Ah yes agree! Just as Jesus showed him the example of witnessing God...that's the point! Hence why Jesus could say to Phillip

Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

God revealed perfectly through the Son!

Ultimately you would also believe that in John's heart he would love to have it said of him "Whoever has seen me has seen the Christ" but of course we sin, so we are a tainted witness of that light. Nonetheless its still his and our desire.

F2F

 

[face2face]

What is your point?

The Apostles had "looked upon" or "earnestly beheld" the Divine ways (or character) as it was revealed in the Lord, and therefore saw God manifest in the flesh.

Does this not make sense to you?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Ultimately you would also believe that in John's heart he would love to have it said of him "Whoever has seen me has seen the Christ" but of course we sin, so we are a tainted witness of that light. Nonetheless its still his and our desire.

Why do you believe you are still a sinner if you've repented and been cleansed of all unrighteousness? Did someone feed you a doctrine of demons.

Or have you never been baptized in the Holy Spirit?

The Apostles had "looked upon" or "earnestly beheld" the Divine ways (or character) as it was revealed in the Lord, and therefore saw God manifest in the flesh.

Does this not make sense to you?

The gospel tells us so. You aren't teaching anything profound so what's the point. John was giving his credentials, just as Paul did in Eph. 1:1-12

 

[face2face]

Where is Jesus God's witness in 1 John 1:1?

This question came out of left field for me 1st.

The fact you were not able to see Christ as a witness to all things pertaining to God, but also that John is saying he firsthand witnessed the Word of Life, and we have the Word of Life stating emphatically that he came to witness God (the origin of that Word of Life)

for this I came into the world, to bear witness to the truth (Word; Spirit etc) (John 18:37)

whoever bears witness to me (as Jesus did of God) before men, I will bear witness to them before my Father (Matt. 10:32)

Even in his glorified state he is still bearing witness to God on behalf of us.

So I'm a little perplexed you would ask that question.

Does it need further explanation?

F2F

 

[1stCenturyLady]

This question came out of left field for me 1st.

The fact you were not able to see Christ as a witness to all things pertaining to God, but also that John is saying he firsthand witnessed the Word of Life, and we have the Word of Life stating emphatically that he came to witness God (the origin of that Word of Life)

for this I came into the world, to bear witness to the truth (Word; Spirit etc) (John 18:37)

whoever bears witness to me (as Jesus did of God) before men, I will bear witness to them before my Father (Matt. 10:32)

Even in his glorified state he is still bearing witness to God on behalf of us.

So I'm a little perplexed you would ask that question.

Does it need further explanation?

F2F

It is just something we all know. Milk. I like meat.

 

[face2face]

Why do you believe you are still a sinner if you've repented and been cleansed of all unrighteousness? Did someone feed you a doctrine of demons.

Nice try 1st! We will cover sin this study - again I'm sure this will be comfronting maybe more so than Jesus being a witness to his Fathers Works & Word.

Or have you never been baptized in the Holy Spirit?

The gospel tells us so. You aren't teaching anything profound so what's the point. John was giving his credentials, just as Paul did in Eph. 1:1-12

Going by your questions to date I'm thinking you can see more than a mere introduction!

F2F

 

[face2face]

It is just something we all know. Milk. I like meat.

If you know, why ask the question?
Is this insincerity on your part?
Lets do this another way...when you get to something you dont know or you think is meat, let us know.
Agree?
F2F

 

[face2face]

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life 1 John 1:1

Question:

Does John have in mind the Lord Jesus before his resurrection or post-resurrection?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

Nice try 1st! We will cover sin this study - again I'm sure this will be comfronting maybe more so than Jesus being a witness to his Fathers Works & Word.

Going by your questions to date I'm thinking you can see more than a mere introduction!

F2F

Do yourself a favor and study chapter 2 and copy every verse that has the key word say/says. Then read chapter one, and you'll see that those who go around saying things without doing them are liars. It is the difference between talking the talk, and walking the walk. 1 John 1:7 is walking the walk, a bona fide Christian, cleansed of all sin. Many people who have been taught what you have about 1 John 1:8 don't think they even CAN walk the walk. A doctrine of demons. verses 6, 8 and 10 are in darkness.

You study and I'm going to bed.

Good night.