Our hands have handle

[face2face]

Do yourself a favor and study chapter 2 and copy every verse that has the key word say/says. Then read chapter one, and you'll see that those who go around saying things without doing them are liars. It is the difference between talking the talk, and walking the walk. 1 John 1:7 is walking the walk, a bona fide Christian, cleansed of all sin. Many people who have been taught what you have about 1 John 1:8 don't think they even CAN walk the walk. A doctrine of demons.

Sure thing, and when we get to that chapter...happy for your input!
We all can boast in many things 1st - I think Paul's example is best "May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.
If your walk is in this type of boast and you fully understand the significance of that cross, then count yourself most blessed. For now, what you have shown has a ? mark over it.
But time will tell.
F2F

 

[face2face]

Many people who have been taught what you have about 1 John 1:8 don't think they even CAN walk the walk. A doctrine of demons.

Good night.

I had to have a chuckle over you referencing 1 John 1:8, as though you want me to hurry up and get to it!
Have patience.
For now we are leaning about God manifestation and how Christ perfectly revealed the Father, His Word and Works in his life and that he became the Word of Life; that which John's senors (ears, eyes & touch) witnessed fully.
Good night and rest well.
F2F

 

[face2face]

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life 1 John 1:1
Question:
Does John have in mind the Lord Jesus before his resurrection or post-resurrection?

 

[face2face]

Do we miss the wonder of 1 John 1:1 and what John is saying here? I think we do!

Here is a clue " and have touched with our hands"

προσψαύω prospsaúō; fut. to feel, handle in an investigative manner.

I am really curious if anyone out there can see how incredible this first verse of 1 John 1 is? Why is John leading us to this word handle?

F2F

 

[Robert Gwin]

I'd like to consider a positive study of John's 1st Epistle.

Over the years, I've done a number of studies / talks on these Epistles and found them exceedingly rich with insight and comfort.

Looking at all three from the heights of an eagle, you could say their emphasis has the following focus:

1 John — The true gospel and the church.
2 John — The true gospel and the home.
3 John — The true gospel and the individual.

In this thread we will be focusing on the true gospel, as it is revealed in and through the body of Christ over 2000 years ago. It will be challenging in places and thought provoking I hope.

1 John - urges the church to oppose error in its midst
2 John - shows that the home should be closed to those who propagate error
3 John - reveals how individuals should resist those who set themselves up against Apostolic authority.

It is clear that the "idea" of Jesus not being raised up in flesh and blood (nature) had already come into the body, hence the importance of the title for this OP.

So lets begin:

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life 1 John 1:1

I will be highlighting the section in the verse being considered to help us focus on what is being taught.

Immediately John is teaching there are things hidden with the Father, which have now been revealed in and by the Lord Jesus Christ. These "hidden things" have been in the mind of God from the beginning and is His Divine Wisdom. Jesus taught that the doctrine he preached came from God, his Father.

So Jesus answered them, “My teaching is not mine, but his who sent me. John 7:16
Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.” John 8:47

(Note the importance of Jesus being of God, as we are who listen)

Of course, if this doctrine was his own, as part of a truine Godhead, Jesus would claim it as his own. This is not the case.

F2F

It is true that examining the son is the best way to know the Father for sure. It is so beneficial to realize that by doing the will of God, he displaced all the myths about God being evil. Jesus was so outstanding that God's people tried to make him King, of course that was not to be, but we best learn God's qualities from him, as the chief exemplar of our faith.

 

[ChristisGod]

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we looked upon and have touched with our hands, concerning the word of life 1 John 1:1
Question:
Does John have in mind the Lord Jesus before his resurrection or post-resurrection?

Is Jesus still a man with a physical human body ? yes or no

 

[face2face]

Is Jesus still a man with a physical human body ? yes or no

I know we dont see eye to eye on much but this was a really good question.
It's without question the body of the post resurrected Lord which John is referencing.
Can you imagine the scene of the disciples examining the Lords body; how does it feel? Does it have a pulse? Jesus has gone from being in corrupting flesh and blood nature to now divine, and you know Christo, I dont know what that nature is like to be honest, but I will tell you 1 John 1:1 is one incredible way to start an Epistle!
Imagine handling the Word of Life in the Flesh....I wonder how many Christians here understand the enormity of that?
F2F

 

[face2face]

John uses the word "handled" which is pselaphao and signifies "to handle with a view to investigation," especially "to grope like a blind man, or as in the dark." (maybe an echo back to Isaac examining Esau??? "felt!")

The Lord was the word of life made flesh. Peri being in the genitive case governs the significance of the phrase "the Word of (the — Greek) life," to mean: "The Word who is the Life."

This supports the Lord's own comment:

"I am the life" (John 14:6). (The confidence in which this could be said in his mortal state is astounding! by the resurrection he became the Word of Life!)

This was the resurrected body of the Lord, then a body of life, and no longer mortal.

In the body of the resurrected Lord he saw a nature never before revealed to man.

F2F

 

[face2face]

1 John 1:2 and the life was revealed, and we have seen and testify and announce to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us.

Already we are seeing God manifestation is the great theme of this Epistle but also of the whole of Scripture.

More to come on verse 2.

F2F

 

[face2face]

1 John 1:2 and the life was revealed, and we have seen and testify and announce to you the eternal life that was with the Father and was revealed to us.

What life is this which has been revealed?

Clearly the context speaks to the body that the Apostles handled: eternal life, which was originally with the Father, for it
constitutes an element of Divine nature (2 Peter 1:4), but was manifested for the first time in a member of the human race, in the
person of the Lord Jesus, the Word made flesh.

Keep in mind this study is merely concentrating on the text and the teachings of the Apostles (no creed language will be permitted)

Already you can see we are drawing to that issue of those who did not believe Jesus came in the Flesh. And it's clear from the Apostles the flesh Jesus held prior to his resurrection is not the same flesh as he has now.

F2F

 

[face2face]

Lets talk about eternal life. (Part 1 of 2)

Here are some quotes to consider:

Titus 1:2 in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time,

So mankind has nothing eternal in them - its hoped for!

John declares that it has been promised to believers

If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

Again, impossible to avoid the Apostles teaching concerning the possession of immortality (quality) eternal life (quantity)

It's a matter of hope!

Romans 8:24 For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what they already have? 25 But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

Again, those Christians who believe they possess an immortal soul fail this hope before they even begin to hope! They only way a believe can possess eternal life is to hope for it! Which is precisely what John teaches:

"you have eternal life" (1 John 5:13), but it is only a present possession because it is promised of God, Who cannot lie, and Who "speaks of those things that be not as though they are" (Rom 4:17).

TBC.

 

[face2face]

Eternal Life (Part 2)

What are we to make of such statements as:

"This is life eternal, that they might know Thee the only true God" (John 17:3)?

This must be the basis upon upon which life eternal will be granted, yeah?

The same form of expression is used in such places as John 3:19: "This is condemnation . . ." (it is the basis of condemnation);

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed.

John 6:29: "This is the work of God, that you believe . . ." (rather, this is the basis by which the work of God is performed);

Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

These people want to do the works that God requires. Jesus simply tells them it is to believe in the one God has sent. The one God has sent is obviously Jesus, the Messiah, the Christ, the Saviour, the Lord, the beloved Son of God

John 12:50: "His commandment is life everlasting . . ." (or, obedience to His commandment is the basis upon which life eternal will be granted).

And I know that his commandment is eternal life. What I say, therefore, I say as the Father has told me.”

Eternal life is divine nature (2 Peter 1:4), and is not only an element of the Father, but the objective that He set before Himself for His children. It was part of God, and that which He desired to see give to His children.

F2F

 

[face2face]

1 John 1:2 and we proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared to us.

"with (pros) the Father"

Here is where it gets hard for most Christians. John is teaching that if we want to take part in divine nature, we need to reveal the moral and spiritual qualities consistent with it, but what if you already believe you have immorality?

See the issue?

The Gospel hope as we have proven is to have the promise of eternal life by faith, which draws a person towards
(pros — flows toward) the Father, as per John 17:3

Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

My fear is many will have Jesus say to them "I do not know you"

It's a real danger.

F2F

 

[face2face]

What John does next in verse 3 is to re-affirm certain truths, which he has already declared to the believers, that they might have confidence in that which they had committed themselves to, and that their joy might be full.

John's teaching is among the finest of all the Apostles - he truly is the Eagle of the four Gospel writers.

that which we have seen and heard we proclaim also to you, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.

I am looking forward to what this fellowship holds in terms of John's teaching.

F2F

 

[Behold]

In this thread we will be focusing on the true gospel,

You are stating that the True Gospel is in your Thread, yet the Cross is not in it, and Paul is not in it.

Being born again is not in it.

Being forgiven your sin is not in it.

John 14:6 is not in it, and that is actually the Gospel.

Also.... the Gospel of the Grace of God, is Paul's Gospel, that Jesus gave personally to Paul....is THE Gospel.
Paul calls this "MY Gospel" 3x in the NT.

You left all that out, in a Thread that is dedicated to the true ""Gospel."""

 

[face2face]

You are stating that the True Gospel is in your Thread, yet the Cross is not in it, and Paul is not in it.

Being born again is not in it.

Being forgiven your sin is not in it.

John 14:6 is not in it, and that is actually the Gospel.

Also.... the Gospel of the Grace of God, is Paul's Gospel, that Jesus gave personally to Paul....is THE Gospel.
Paul calls this "MY Gospel" 3x in the NT.

You left all that out, in a Thread that is dedicated to the true ""Gospel."""

Early days Behold!
So far we have looked at Jesus Christ who became the Word of Life by him being raised from the dead. We have seen the authenticity of the Apostles who handled the resurrected Lord. We have also looked at the divine nature which will be bestowed upon those who have the true faith. Next up is the fellowship which the true believers have with God and the Lord Jesus Christ (not important you say?). Also keep in mind we are studying the works of an Apostle who is warning against false teachers who had already entered in among the fold. It's rather possible your knowledge and understanding today has been affected by their evil works!

And what of the themes such as God is Love; God is Light; God is Life are they already fully known to you? Maybe you are a glass full?

Anyways, if you understood this work you would know the Epistle is an appendix to the Gospel - it assumes a knowledge of the cross; grace forgiveness etc. for one cannot have fellowship with God and Christ without this understanding.

It's what makes John's epistle so incredibly rewarding to study.

F2F

 

[Behold]

The next step in your learning is understanding why Jesus had your nature

What you are teaching is incredible blasphemy.

Demonic.

You are stating that Jesus, the Begotten of God, has Adam's fallen nature.

"""Jesus has your nature""".. is your quote, Face2face.

No, bless God He does not. !
Jesus has His Father's nature. who is God.

See, the human race has Adam's fallen nature, because we came from fallen Adam.

Jesus The Christ came from God's HOLY Spiritual SEED... So, to teach that Jesus has the "human nature" is to teach that Jesus isn't from God. ..............
When in fact... Jesus's nature came from His Father = as created by the Holy Spirit, which created Jesus supernaturally and miraculously inside the womb of a Virgin.

 

[face2face]

What you are teaching is incredible blasphemy.

Demonic.

You are stating that Jesus, the Begotten of God, has Adam's fallen nature.

"""Jesus has your nature""".. is your quote, Face2face.

No, bless God He does not. !
Jesus has His Father's nature. who is God.

See, the human race has Adam's fallen nature, because we came from fallen Adam.

Jesus The Christ came from God's HOLY Spiritual SEED... So, to teach that Jesus has the "human nature" is to teach that Jesus isn't from God. ..............
When in fact... Jesus's nature came from His Father = as created by the Holy Spirit, which created Jesus supernaturally and miraculously inside the womb of a Virgin.

So what did God overcome in Christ if it wasn't your nature?

For this reason he had to be made like them, fully human in every way, in order that he might become a merciful and faithful high priest in service to God, and that he might make atonement for the sins of the people. Heb 2:17

Paul cannot be any more emphatic as to what nature Christ had.

What's sad is not that you dont know this; whats sad is you dont know why Christ had your nature.

And, its precisely what John in his Epistle is speaking against - those who dont believe Christ came in the Flesh.

Wow - the power of that should silence you and cause you to reread their Epistles.

F2F

 

[face2face]

In verse's 3 & 4 we have this small section where John having demonstrated his credentials as an authorized Apostle, able to teach the doctrine of God manifestation, he now wants to express the need for joy in fellowship.

How does 1 John 1 apply to us today with so many "experts" who believe they have truth?

For me I will lean on the personal evidence of eyes and ears of John over the theories of errorists who lack the credentials of the Apostle.

Hence, why I will push back on creed language in this thread as I am keen to quote the Apostles work only.

We are after the original Gospel are we not?

F2F

 

[face2face]

1 John 1:3 "We proclaim to you...."

John does not limit this proclamation to the things contained in his Epistle, but relates them also to those found in his Gospel (John 17:20)

“My prayer is not for them (disciples) alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message"

By which fellowship might be had with the Father and Son (John 17:21).

that they (us) may all be one, just as you, Father, are in me (Jesus), and I (Jesus) in you (Father), that they (us) also may be in us (Father & Son), so that the world (all peoples) may believe that you (Father) have sent me (Jesus).

I doubt there isn't a single believer in this forum who can argue with the truthfulness of 1 John 1:3,4; John 17:20,21

Oneness in purpose; in God manifestation is the core principle being taught here, which is why we are apart of Christ; the body which is connected to the head. All one in God our Father through the Lord Jesus Christ.

F2F