‘I SAID, YOU ARE GODS’?

[Johann]

That many people erroneously think they are hearing from God when they are not, is not a reason to throw out the concept of hearing from God. The devil is always working overtime trying to discredit the true things of God...and even we are tested this way by God to see whether we will believe the devil's work or believe God. People are often so afraid of being deceived that they are bound by their fear and refuse to reach for more than they have and grow. And we grow as children do, sometimes making mistakes that we learn from - thankfully the Lord is not a harsh taskmaster and is ready to forgive us when we blunder, as long as we are sincerely sorry when we do. People are often so afraid of making mistakes because they don't know God very well. We can be encouraged by remembering Peter in his as yet immature zeal and then fell flat on his face when tested. Jesus forgave him.

Hence the need to "hear audible voices" to say-"this is the way-walk therein?" Or in our every day tasks?
Not being facetious with you-but I'll stay with what stands written and not what "a voice" is telling me what to do-to buy potatoes instead of tomato's.

Johann.

 

[Lizbeth]

So you agree with Karl-we need to hear "a voice" in an audible manner?
This is where the rubber hits the road.
J.

Actually it happens that I heard from the Lord "audibly" the first time He spoke to me to give me an instruction and direction soon after believing. But not since then that I can remember, possibly one other time. And I think it was in my ear inwardly. I am not sure if anyone else had been present that they would have heard it. But He speaks to me in other ways in an ongoing way since then. Different gifts for different folks, I believe. Though I often do ponder the scripture that this brother posted, saying you will hear a voice behind you telling you which way to walk. Maybe hearing audibly from God on an ongoing basis is something we can grow into. Scripture speaks of His still small voice and His sheep know his voice. Just because we personally haven't seen or experienced something ourselves doesn't mean it isn't of God. If we do that we may be thinking too highly of ourselves and our limited experiences, and this causes us to limit God.

Just want to add: We are not the measure of what is possible with God. He is able to do far exceedingly above what we can ask or imagine!

 

[Augustin56]

This is a reference to the judges of Israel who, since they exercised the divine prerogative to judge (Dt 1:17), were called “gods”; cf. Ex 21:6, besides Ps 82:6 from which the quotation comes.

 

[Johann]

Scripture speaks of His still small voice and His sheep know his voice. Just because we personally haven't seen or experienced something ourselves doesn't mean it isn't of God. If we do that we may be thinking too highly of ourselves and our limited experiences, and this causes us to limit God.

Sorry sister-this is where I disagree with you-in this tumultuous world of utter lawlessness and confusion there are many "voices"-Karl wants to convince me if I don't hear an audible voice on a regular basis I'm lost.
Hence my post. And yet I know there are many here who do believe God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit MUST speak to them in a audible voice.

I don't go by voices-

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The just shall live by faith-I don't see "by a voice"
J.

 

[Lizbeth]

Hence the need to "hear audible voices" to say-"this is the way-walk therein?" Or in our every day tasks?
Not being facetious with you-but I'll stay with what stands written and not what "a voice" is telling me what to do-to buy potatoes instead of tomato's.

Johann.

Sometimes in everyday things when we are in a quandary the Lord is kind to help us out. Like we normally may not need to ask the Lord what to eat for dinner that night. Unless we're out of food altogether, as was the case with the Israelites. And me in recent times I sometimes just run out of ideas of what to cook for my husband and son, at my age it is sometimes getting hard to come up with ideas 365 days of the year, I get so weary of cooking and need inspiration, and I ask the Lord, and shortly after He will drop an idea into my head and I feel inspired to cook it. The Lord is truly kind!

And if the Lord speaks to you or unctions you unbidden to direct you to buy something other than potatoes you better listen, in case the potatoes you were about to buy turn out to be diseased or radioactive unbeknownst to you, lol!

 

[Lizbeth]

Sorry sister-this is where I disagree with you-in this tumultuous world of utter lawlessness and confusion there are many "voices"-Karl wants to convince me if I don't hear an audible voice on a regular basis I'm lost.
Hence my post. And yet I know there are many here who do believe God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit MUST speak to them in a audible voice.

I don't go by voices-

Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The just shall live by faith-I don't see "by a voice"
J.

Of course it is by faith.....hearing and recognizing His voice is by faith.

I haven't read every post and don't know everything that Karl believes, but so far I haven't seen where he thinks we are lost if we don't hear God's voice audibly. So far what he is writing comes across to me as an encouragement and exhortation to grow and reach for more of the Lord, and to know that there is more. And I believe we need to take the idea of growing and maturing seriously if we are to be prepared (grown up) as a bride and ready for His return.

Edit: And you yourself just quoted hearing is by the word of God, brother. His word is alive and active and Jesus is the Word of God and He is alive - why on earth wouldn't He speak in a way that we can hear? He was always speaking to His disciples. But of course test all things and grow in discernment so that we can discern between what is of Him and what is of the flesh or devil.

 

[Johann]

And if the Lord speaks to you or unctions you unbidden to direct you to buy something other than potatoes you better listen, in case the potatoes you were about to buy turn out to be diseased or radioactive unbeknownst to you, lol!

Lol!
"Unction" was the word I'm looking for-soft impressions as the Holy Spirit continuously co-witnessing with our spirit that we are His.
Johann.

 

[Johann]

I haven't read every post and don't know everything that Karl believes, but so far I haven't seen where he thinks we are lost if we don't hear God's voice audibly. So far what he is writing comes across to me as an encouragement and exhortation to grow and reach for more of the Lord, and to know that there is more. And I believe we need to take the idea of growing and maturing seriously if we are to be prepared (grown up) as a bride and ready for His return.

I'm trodding carefully-trying the spirits Lizbeth.

1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

The verse containing this word and a companion verse in the same chapter have been used to support so much unholy living and unscriptural service in God’s name that a close look at this definition is very much in order.

But ye have an UNCTION from the Holy One, and ye know all things. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him (1Jn_2:20; 1Jn_2:27).

The first of these verses is used by the slothful to justify their lack of study, by careless ministers to justify their lack of preparation, and by conceited babies to validate their claim to need no instruction.

The second of these verses is used by rebels who will not submit themselves to the preaching of the word of God and by those so carnal they cannot establish relationships with their brethren. They wave this verse about as though it proved they had Biblical sanction to absent themselves from full participation in a local church.

So just what is an unction? It is the act of anointing, smearing or rubbing with an unguent (a soft composition used as a topical remedy, as for sores, burns and the like) oil, or ointment, especially for medical purposes. This means that the Holy Spirit first comes with gentle healing for our sin-sick souls. He softens the diseased and rotten flesh and renews healthy life therein.

An unction is also the quality in language, address, or the like, which excites emotion, especially strong devotion; religious fervor and tenderness. Next the indwelling Holy Ghost begins to apply the word of God (language, address) in such a way as to bring about four great changes in the life.

First, he excites with emotion. The new birth does not result in dead or dry orthodoxy, nor ritualistic formalities, but a genuine, heartfelt expression of righteous feelings toward God and man.

Second, he produces strong devotion. The born again experience does not leave one in and out, lukewarm or an occasional participant in divine worship and service. Rather, the result will be a devotedness and unwavering allegiance to the things of God.

Third, is an intense, glowing, animated zeal. The Christ-life is one which cannot be hid.

Fourth, there is a tenderness. The Holy Spirit will not make one a bitter, critical, fault-finding isolationist. He will make one like the Master; humble, burden-bearing, meek and lowly.

There is much boasting today in knowledge, but it is not the knowledge of the Spirit. Where there is an unction from the Holy One, the lessons above are being learned, and their fruits are being manifest in the life. These are the things that no man can teach or needs to teach to the believer who is yielded to the Holy Ghost’s control.

Johann.

 

[amigo de christo]

... hear his voice." Connect with Heb_3:13, "exhort one another," etc.; Heb_3:14 being a parenthesis. 'It rests with yourselves that the 95th Psalm be not a mere invitation, but also an actual enjoyment.'


For the rabbis hearing is through reading out loud the holy books. Recitation of the Shema brings out the importance of hearing, for the passages used (Deu_6:4ff; Deu_11:13 ff.; Num_15:37 ff.) show that we know God by studying and keeping his law.

akoe. This common word has the active meaning 1. "sense of hearing" and the passive one 2. "report" In the NT it can mean "preaching" with a stress on the hearing (cf. 1Th_2:13; Rom_10:16 ff.; Heb_4:2). In Gal_3:2 the point is not "believing hearing" but "preaching of faith," i.e., with faith as the content and goal. In the pagan world akoai was also used 3. for the ears put on sanctuary walls to symbolize hearing deity.

While, &c. Literally In (Greek. en) its being said. i.e. the exhortation of Heb_3:13 is to them. Compare verses: Heb_3:7, Heb_3:8.

While I appreciate your stress on "hearing" the voice of God in an audible voice-for me it is through the illumination of the Scriptures dia the Holy Spirit.

J.

I give you this challenge today my friend .
Test all folks and see .
Most folks who often talk about hearing the voice of GOD through emotions and etc
OFTEN hear a voice that CONTRADICTS the scrips . ALSO , take note , THEY WILL often say things
about folks who hold to the bible . Just something i noticed .
Sensual hearers who continually believe they hear God in a bird or in a song
in the cry of even a baby or the voice of a child . OFTEN THEM FOLKS CONTRADICT THE HOOT out of the bible
and THEY often say things against those who are so adament about testing anything you do hear AGAINST sound doctrine .
FOLKS GETTING caught up in EMOTIONS and sensual feelings and THINKING its the voice of GOD . JUST SOMETHING I NOTICED
BIG TIME . STAY DUG IN THAT BIBLE MY FRIEND . DUG DUG DUG IN IT .

 

[amigo de christo]

We are sometimes like the Pharisees who diligently searched the scriptures to learn "about" God, but refuse to come TO Him. He is actually alive and not just words on a page. We can have a living relationship with Him!

But I believe He may speak to different people in different ways....because we're not all gifted the same.

No we aint . i dont know who this WE is you speak about . Most folks search the scrips for one reason
SO they can twist them to SUIT their own desires and they DO think they have eternal life .
But lambs are dug in the scrips for one reason . GOD PUT THEM into the scrips so as they can grow wise .
They just love and feast and then feast some more and just love ER WORD in that holy bible .
Never met a lamb who didnt .
But YES i know GOD leads us by THE UNCTIONING of the SPIRIT .
But i know something else , IF I HAD A DIME for every time i heard someone say GOD IS speaking to them
or they are being unctioned by GOD to do this or that , AND YET IT CONTRADICTED THE SCRIPS
I could sail us all AROUND the WORLD on a TEN THOUSAND FOOT BOAT .
GOD does lead us by the SPIRIT , Only i sure wish folks would TEST the spirits
cause most folks i see are getting LED all right , BUT IT AINT BY THE HOLY GHOST
ITS thier own carnal emotions , desires for lusts in this life , pride of this life .
My advice remains . LEt all who name the name of CHRIST GET DUG DEEP IN THOSE BIBLES .
AND TEST and keep testing all things against THE TRUTH . Now raise those hands sister
I seen folks all geared up in churches , hollering I am gonna realease the giggle angel , HOLY GHOST laughter ,
TICKEL angel , now bark like a dog and etc . I SEEN much in my days sister .
Folks getting on stages and saying THUS SAYETH THE LORD , crowds clinging to their every word
ONLY GOD SURE AS HECK AINT THE ONE THAT GAVE THEM THOSE WORDS .
AS i know YOU KNOW THIS VERY WELL SISTER . WE gonna keep on testing all spirits , we gonna stay GLUED in the BIBLE
and we gonna test ALL things .

 

[Johann]

I give you this challenge today my friend .
Test all folks and see .
Most folks who often talk about hearing the voice of GOD through emotions and etc
OFTEN hear a voice that CONTRADICTS the scrips . ALSO , take note , THEY WILL often say things
about folks who hold to the bible . Just something i noticed .
Sensual hearers who continually believe they hear God in a bird or in a song
in the cry of even a baby or the voice of a child . OFTEN THEM FOLKS CONTRADICT THE HOOT out of the bible
and THEY often say things against those who are so adament about testing anything you do hear AGAINST sound doctrine .
FOLKS GETTING caught up in EMOTIONS and sensual feelings and THINKING its the voice of GOD . JUST SOMETHING I NOTICED
BIG TIME . STAY DUG IN THAT BIBLE MY FRIEND . DUG DUG DUG IN IT .

Will do my brother-the Scriptures is secondary-voices the primary-backwards.
Many have fell for this trap.
Shalom.
J.

 

[Lizbeth]

No we aint . i dont know who this WE is you speak about . Most folks search the scrips for one reason
SO they can twist them to SUIT their own desires and they DO think they have eternal life .
But lambs are dug in the scrips for one reason . GOD PUT THEM into the scrips so as they can grow wise .
They just love and feast and then feast some more and just love ER WORD in that holy bible .
Never met a lamb who didnt .
But YES i know GOD leads us by THE UNCTIONING of the SPIRIT .
But i know something else , IF I HAD A DIME for every time i heard someone say GOD IS speaking to them
or they are being unctioned by GOD to do this or that , AND YET IT CONTRADICTED THE SCRIPS
I could sail us all AROUND the WORLD on a TEN THOUSAND FOOT BOAT .
GOD does lead us by the SPIRIT , Only i sure wish folks would TEST the spirits
cause most folks i see are getting LED all right , BUT IT AINT BY THE HOLY GHOST
ITS thier own carnal emotions , desires for lusts in this life , pride of this life .
My advice remains . LEt all who name the name of CHRIST GET DUG DEEP IN THOSE BIBLES .
AND TEST and keep testing all things against THE TRUTH . Now raise those hands sister
I seen folks all geared up in churches , hollering I am gonna realease the giggle angel , HOLY GHOST laughter ,
TICKEL angel , now bark like a dog and etc . I SEEN much in my days sister .
Folks getting on stages and saying THUS SAYETH THE LORD , crowds clinging to their every word
ONLY GOD SURE AS HECK AINT THE ONE THAT GAVE THEM THOSE WORDS .
AS i know YOU KNOW THIS VERY WELL SISTER . WE gonna keep on testing all spirits , we gonna stay GLUED in the BIBLE
and we gonna test ALL things .

There are many who don't believe God speaks to His people today or does anything that can be called miraculous. They are known as cessationists. They are judging by their own limited experience and often avoiding miraculous things out of fear of being deceived. Though I don't even think of the Lord speaking to us and leading us by His spirit in various ways in terms of being miraculous, but more as being normal for Him, normal for His kingdom. The Lord generally works quietly and simply, without fanfare.

Yes there are lots of counterfeits and fleshly emotions and 'performances' going on that aren't of the Spirit, I've seen it too, but that doesn't take away one jot from the true realities of God's kingdom and ways, which can't be drummed up or manufactured (though the bible does say to stir up the gift that is within). Yes we certainly are to test and discern the spirits for good reason.

 

[WalkInLight]

What do we encourage others to do? It is seek the Lord and listen to Him - Today, correct?

And if we want the Lord Jesus Christ to come in - it doesn't require He comes a 'Marching', it only requires that we deside to just listen to Him, because He is always just standing there talking to us so all we have to do is desire to hear from Him!!!

Yet it does sound good to say "encourage others" and "March on in Lord." - neither of which actually encourage others to actually listen to Him!

Heb 3:7 - 14
Therefore, just as the Holy Spirit says,
“TODAY IF YOU HEAR HIS VOICE,
DO NOT HARDEN YOUR HEARTS AS WHEN THEY PROVOKED ME,
AS IN THE DAY OF TRIAL IN THE WILDERNESS,
WHERE YOUR FATHERS TRIED Me BY TESTING Me,
AND SAW MY WORKS FOR FORTY YEARS.
“THEREFORE I WAS ANGRY WITH THIS GENERATION,
AND SAID, ‘THEY ALWAYS GO ASTRAY IN THEIR HEART,
AND THEY DID NOT KNOW MY WAYS’;
AS I SWORE IN MY WRATH,
‘THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.’”
Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
But encourage one another day after day, as long as it is still called “Today,” so that none of you will be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

As can read in the Scriptures, we need to HEAR HIS VOICE, and we provoke Him when we don't. And when that happens, we should know that He has sworn in His wrath, ‘THEY SHALL NOT ENTER MY REST.’”

Therefore, we encourage one another day after day, as long as it still called "Today" - and that mean we encourage them to seek Him and listen to Him!!

Yet not all will accept Him!! Many reject the idea of seeking His voice and listening to Him. They can read the Scriptures and still do that. They can sound very religious, but still not actually seek His voice. But if they do that they will not actually be trying to encourage other to seek Him, but rather they encourage each other to follow them and other men, and present themselves to be the righteous One.

That doesn't mean that one day He won't come marching with His army and bring a day of judgement - when what He swore comes to pass. If you don't know Him, you really don't want that day. Yet if you know Him and hear Him tell you "...., I love you", and "...., I will always call you my friend", and "get over it ...., you will always be with me", and sooo much more like "...., pray for that person and I will heal them", and you watch it happen, then what are you going to say to people?

I can tell you what you will say once you truly get to know Him!! You will say, "People, seek Him and listen to Him"!!!

He is worth knowing, but many will not enter His rest when He comes marching in with His army to clean it all up!!

"He is always just standing there talking to us so all we have to do is desire to hear from Him!!!"

Amen, Jesus's message is simple. If you love Him you will obey His commands.
How is it that those who claim to be listening to Jesus can also be deaf to His commands.

Love your neighbour as you love yourself.

Love is the cross, love is repentance and humbleness, love is caring for others and the position they are in.
A hard heart finds forgiveness impossible.

God bless you

 

[Johann]

No we aint . i dont know who this WE is you speak about . Most folks search the scrips for one reason
SO they can twist them to SUIT their own desires and they DO think they have eternal life .
But lambs are dug in the scrips for one reason . GOD PUT THEM into the scrips so as they can grow wise .
They just love and feast and then feast some more and just love ER WORD in that holy bible .
Never met a lamb who didnt .
But YES i know GOD leads us by THE UNCTIONING of the SPIRIT .
But i know something else , IF I HAD A DIME for every time i heard someone say GOD IS speaking to them
or they are being unctioned by GOD to do this or that , AND YET IT CONTRADICTED THE SCRIPS
I could sail us all AROUND the WORLD on a TEN THOUSAND FOOT BOAT .
GOD does lead us by the SPIRIT , Only i sure wish folks would TEST the spirits
cause most folks i see are getting LED all right , BUT IT AINT BY THE HOLY GHOST
ITS thier own carnal emotions , desires for lusts in this life , pride of this life .
My advice remains . LEt all who name the name of CHRIST GET DUG DEEP IN THOSE BIBLES .
AND TEST and keep testing all things against THE TRUTH . Now raise those hands sister
I seen folks all geared up in churches , hollering I am gonna realease the giggle angel , HOLY GHOST laughter ,
TICKEL angel , now bark like a dog and etc . I SEEN much in my days sister .
Folks getting on stages and saying THUS SAYETH THE LORD , crowds clinging to their every word
ONLY GOD SURE AS HECK AINT THE ONE THAT GAVE THEM THOSE WORDS .
AS i know YOU KNOW THIS VERY WELL SISTER . WE gonna keep on testing all spirits , we gonna stay GLUED in the BIBLE
and we gonna test ALL things .

Well said brother.
Johann.

 

[Johann]

I give you this challenge today my friend .
Test all folks and see .
Most folks who often talk about hearing the voice of GOD through emotions and etc
OFTEN hear a voice that CONTRADICTS the scrips . ALSO , take note , THEY WILL often say things
about folks who hold to the bible . Just something i noticed .
Sensual hearers who continually believe they hear God in a bird or in a song
in the cry of even a baby or the voice of a child . OFTEN THEM FOLKS CONTRADICT THE HOOT out of the bible
and THEY often say things against those who are so adament about testing anything you do hear AGAINST sound doctrine .
FOLKS GETTING caught up in EMOTIONS and sensual feelings and THINKING its the voice of GOD . JUST SOMETHING I NOTICED
BIG TIME . STAY DUG IN THAT BIBLE MY FRIEND . DUG DUG DUG IN IT .

This is where the rubber hits the road-I dare say-in a sense I'm glad this "hearing voices/kol" thread is here-and how many are twisting and diverting from direct questions-even using Scriptures out of context to "fit in" with="We MUST hear the voice of God, Christ, or the Holy Spirit-and here's the clincher-If you and I DON"T hear voices-we ain't saved.
You will be surprised how many here do believe this.
We are saved by grace-not by hearing "a voice"
"the word of Christ" Because of the context this must refer to the message about Christ that was preached. Gospel preaching is God's way to convey His offer in Christ to the world.

There is an ancient Greek manuscript variation at this point.

1. MSS P46, א*, B, C, D* have "the word of Christ"

2. MSS אc, A, Dc, K, P have "the word of God"

The first is the most unusual (cf. Col. 3:16) and, therefore, probably original (this is one of the basic tenants of textual criticism). The UBS4 gives it an "A" rating (certain). This is the only other place it appears in the NT. The second, "the word of God," appears several times (cf. Luke 3:2; John 3:34; Eph. 6:17; Heb. 6:5 and 11:3).

NASB (UPDATED) TEXT: ROMANS 10:18-21
18But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; "Their voice has gone out into all the earth, And their words to the ends of the world." 19But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says, "I will make you jealous by that which is not a nation, By a nation without understanding will I anger you." 20And Isaiah is very bold and says, "I was found by those who did not seek Me, I became manifest to those who did not ask for Me." 21But as for Israel He says, "All the day long I have stretched out My hands to a disobedient and obstinate people."

10:18 This verse asserts that most Jews had heard the message and that they were responsible for rejecting it (an emphatic double negative Greek phrase; the question expects a "no" answer). The problem was not ignorance, but willful unbelief!

Paul quotes Ps. 19:4. In this Psalm Rom. 10:1-6 refer to natural revelation, which is God speaking through creation (cf. Romans 1-2). Paul changes

1. the universal witness ("into all the earth" and "to the ends of the world")

2. the means of transmitting the message from the silent voice of creation to gospel preachers (apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastor, and teachers, cf. Eph. 4:11), which refers to special revelation (cf. Ps. 19:8-14)

The main thought is that the gospel message had gone out into the known world of Paul's day (Greco-Roman world). Paul is using rabbinical hermeneutics; he alters the original OT context for his theological, polemical purposes. It must also be stated clearly that Paul's use of the OT, like the other Apostles, was uniquely guided by the Holy Spirit (cf. 2 Pet. 1:20-21). Believers today, under the illumination of the Spirit, cannot reproduce the interpretive methods of NT writers.

ILLUMINATION

God has acted in the past to clearly reveal Himself to mankind (i.e., creation, flood, call of Patriarchs, exodus, conquest, etc.). In theology this is called "revelation." He selected certain men to record and explain this self-revelation (e.g., John 14:26; 16:12-15). In theology this is called "inspiration." He has sent His Spirit to help readers understand Him and His promises and provisions, especially the coming of Messiah. In theology this is called "illumination." The problem arises, if the Spirit is involved in understanding God—why are there so many interpretations of Him and His will and way?

Part of the problem lies in the reader's pre-understanding or personal experiences. Often a personal agenda is advocated by using the Bible in a proof-text or atomistic fashion.

Often a theological grid is imposed over the Bible allowing it to speak only in certain areas and in selected ways. Illumination simply cannot be equated with inspiration although the Holy Spirit is involved in each. Inspiration has ceased with the NT (i.e., Jude 3,20). Most NT texts which relate to illumination refer to knowledge about the gospel and the Christlike life (i.e., Rom. 8:12-17; 1 Cor. 2:10-13; Eph. 1:17-19; Phil. 1:9-11; Col. 1:9-13; 1 John 2:20-27). This, in reality, is one of the promises of the "new covenant" (cf. Jer. 31:31-34, esp. v. 34).

The best approach to allow the Spirit to help believers understand revelation may be to attempt to assert the central idea of a paragraph, not interpret every detail of the text. It is the topical thought which conveys the original author's central truth. Outlining the book or literary unit helps one follow the intent of the original inspired author. No interpreter is inspired.

We cannot reproduce the biblical writer's method of interpretation (i.e., inspiration). We can and must attempt to understand what they were saying to their day and then communicate that truth to our own day.

There are parts of the Bible that are ambiguous or hidden (until a certain time or period). There will always be disagreements on some texts and subjects but we must state clearly the central truths and allow freedom for individual believer's interpretations within the boundary of the original author's intent.

Interpreters must walk in the light they have, always being open to more light from the Bible and the Spirit. God will judge us based on the level of our understanding and how we live out that understanding.

Shalom
Johann

 

[Lizbeth]

I'm trodding carefully-trying the spirits Lizbeth.

1Jn 2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

The verse containing this word and a companion verse in the same chapter have been used to support so much unholy living and unscriptural service in God’s name that a close look at this definition is very much in order.

But ye have an UNCTION from the Holy One, and ye know all things. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him (1Jn_2:20; 1Jn_2:27).

The first of these verses is used by the slothful to justify their lack of study, by careless ministers to justify their lack of preparation, and by conceited babies to validate their claim to need no instruction.

The second of these verses is used by rebels who will not submit themselves to the preaching of the word of God and by those so carnal they cannot establish relationships with their brethren. They wave this verse about as though it proved they had Biblical sanction to absent themselves from full participation in a local church.

So just what is an unction? It is the act of anointing, smearing or rubbing with an unguent (a soft composition used as a topical remedy, as for sores, burns and the like) oil, or ointment, especially for medical purposes. This means that the Holy Spirit first comes with gentle healing for our sin-sick souls. He softens the diseased and rotten flesh and renews healthy life therein.

An unction is also the quality in language, address, or the like, which excites emotion, especially strong devotion; religious fervor and tenderness. Next the indwelling Holy Ghost begins to apply the word of God (language, address) in such a way as to bring about four great changes in the life.

First, he excites with emotion. The new birth does not result in dead or dry orthodoxy, nor ritualistic formalities, but a genuine, heartfelt expression of righteous feelings toward God and man.

Second, he produces strong devotion. The born again experience does not leave one in and out, lukewarm or an occasional participant in divine worship and service. Rather, the result will be a devotedness and unwavering allegiance to the things of God.

Third, is an intense, glowing, animated zeal. The Christ-life is one which cannot be hid.

Fourth, there is a tenderness. The Holy Spirit will not make one a bitter, critical, fault-finding isolationist. He will make one like the Master; humble, burden-bearing, meek and lowly.

There is much boasting today in knowledge, but it is not the knowledge of the Spirit. Where there is an unction from the Holy One, the lessons above are being learned, and their fruits are being manifest in the life. These are the things that no man can teach or needs to teach to the believer who is yielded to the Holy Ghost’s control.

Johann.

I think that is the issue here - being yielded to the Holy Spirit and being led by Him. That means asking for and seeking His will and waiting for His response, as the OP has talked about. We are like unbroken horses in the beginning (Moses is an example), running around serving the Lord according to our own will, until He breaks us and then we learn to seek and wait for and submit to, His leading, His tug on our reins, whether through voice or unction or any way He wants. This is something the OP brought out which I quite agree with.

 

[amigo de christo]

This is where the rubber hits the road-I dare say-in a sense I'm glad this "hearing voices/kol" thread is here-and how many are twisting and diverting from direct questions-even using Scriptures out of context to "fit in" with="We MUST hear the voice of God, Christ, or the Holy Spirit-and here's the clincher-If you and I DON"T hear voices-we ain't saved.
You will be surprised how many here do believe this.
We are saved by grace-not by hearing "a voice"
"the word of Christ" Because of the context this must refer to the message about Christ that was preached. Gospel preaching is God's way to convey His offer in Christ to the world.

There is an ancient Greek manuscript variation at this point.

1. MSS P46, א*, B, C, D* have "the word of Christ"

2. MSS אc, A, Dc, K, P have "the word of God"

The first is the most unusual (cf. Col. 3:16) and, therefore, probably original (this is one of the basic tenants of textual criticism). The UBS4 gives it an "A" rating (certain). This is the only other place it appears in the NT. The second, "the word of God," appears several times (cf. Luke 3:2; John 3:34; Eph. 6:17; Heb. 6:5 and 11:3).

NASB (UPDATED) TEXT: ROMANS 10:18-21
18But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; "Their voice has gone out into all the earth, And their words to the ends of the world." 19But I say, surely Israel did not know, did they? First Moses says, "I will make you jealous by that which is not a nation, By a nation without understanding will I anger you." 20And Isaiah is very bold and says, "I was found by those who did not seek Me, I became manifest to those who did not ask for Me." 21But as for Israel He says, "All the day long I have stretched out My hands to a disobedient and obstinate people."

10:18 This verse asserts that most Jews had heard the message and that they were responsible for rejecting it (an emphatic double negative Greek phrase; the question expects a "no" answer). The problem was not ignorance, but willful unbelief!

Paul quotes Ps. 19:4. In this Psalm Rom. 10:1-6 refer to natural revelation, which is God speaking through creation (cf. Romans 1-2). Paul changes

1. the universal witness ("into all the earth" and "to the ends of the world")

2. the means of transmitting the message from the silent voice of creation to gospel preachers (apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastor, and teachers, cf. Eph. 4:11), which refers to special revelation (cf. Ps. 19:8-14)

The main thought is that the gospel message had gone out into the known world of Paul's day (Greco-Roman world). Paul is using rabbinical hermeneutics; he alters the original OT context for his theological, polemical purposes. It must also be stated clearly that Paul's use of the OT, like the other Apostles, was uniquely guided by the Holy Spirit (cf. 2 Pet. 1:20-21). Believers today, under the illumination of the Spirit, cannot reproduce the interpretive methods of NT writers.

ILLUMINATION

God has acted in the past to clearly reveal Himself to mankind (i.e., creation, flood, call of Patriarchs, exodus, conquest, etc.). In theology this is called "revelation." He selected certain men to record and explain this self-revelation (e.g., John 14:26; 16:12-15). In theology this is called "inspiration." He has sent His Spirit to help readers understand Him and His promises and provisions, especially the coming of Messiah. In theology this is called "illumination." The problem arises, if the Spirit is involved in understanding God—why are there so many interpretations of Him and His will and way?

Part of the problem lies in the reader's pre-understanding or personal experiences. Often a personal agenda is advocated by using the Bible in a proof-text or atomistic fashion.

Often a theological grid is imposed over the Bible allowing it to speak only in certain areas and in selected ways. Illumination simply cannot be equated with inspiration although the Holy Spirit is involved in each. Inspiration has ceased with the NT (i.e., Jude 3,20). Most NT texts which relate to illumination refer to knowledge about the gospel and the Christlike life (i.e., Rom. 8:12-17; 1 Cor. 2:10-13; Eph. 1:17-19; Phil. 1:9-11; Col. 1:9-13; 1 John 2:20-27). This, in reality, is one of the promises of the "new covenant" (cf. Jer. 31:31-34, esp. v. 34).

The best approach to allow the Spirit to help believers understand revelation may be to attempt to assert the central idea of a paragraph, not interpret every detail of the text. It is the topical thought which conveys the original author's central truth. Outlining the book or literary unit helps one follow the intent of the original inspired author. No interpreter is inspired.

We cannot reproduce the biblical writer's method of interpretation (i.e., inspiration). We can and must attempt to understand what they were saying to their day and then communicate that truth to our own day.

There are parts of the Bible that are ambiguous or hidden (until a certain time or period). There will always be disagreements on some texts and subjects but we must state clearly the central truths and allow freedom for individual believer's interpretations within the boundary of the original author's intent.

Interpreters must walk in the light they have, always being open to more light from the Bible and the Spirit. God will judge us based on the level of our understanding and how we live out that understanding.

Shalom
Johann

The Spirit simply unctions our conscious .
The only time i ever heard an audiable voice was in a dream .
Any other time its simply an unctioning in my inner conscious .
I am not saying that some might not at a time or two hear an audible voice .
But i get unctions . no voice .
There have also been times when i got what i would call a word of knowledge or etc .
Not sure what to call it .
But let me explain it . Though this is quite rare .
One day a lady i had been witnessing
too came back into the store . Immediately i perceived she had been playing with tarot cards .
So i simply told her , you need to cease playing tarot cards because its witchcraft .
SHE spun round so fast and said HOW on earth did you know that .
But she knew quickly HOW i knew it . And she didnt lie about it . She confessed it
and said she didnt think it was witchcraft when she done it .
Things like that have happened . Though it is rare . But still i didnt hear any voice
IT was like I SUDDENLY JUST KNEW she had been playing with tarot cards. And yes my friend , THAT IS WITCHCRAFT .
OH i know a bethel church that does such a pratice too . THEY CALL IT DESTINY CARDS
but believe me ITS WITCHCRAFT with a christain title only .

 

[amigo de christo]

There are many who don't believe God speaks to His people today or does anything that can be called miraculous. They are known as cessationists. They are judging by their own limited experience and often avoiding miraculous things out of fear of being deceived. Though I don't even think of the Lord speaking to us and leading us by His spirit in various ways in terms of being miraculous, but more as being normal for Him, normal for His kingdom. The Lord generally works quietly and simply, without fanfare.

Yes there are lots of counterfeits and fleshly emotions and 'performances' going on that aren't of the Spirit, I've seen it too, but that doesn't take away one jot from the true realities of God's kingdom and ways, which can't be drummed up or manufactured (though the bible does say to stir up the gift that is within). Yes we certainly are to test and discern the spirits for good reason.

Allow me a real friendly reminder . I am sure you will agree with it . NEVER FOLLOW THE CESSATIONISTS .
JESUS CHRIST is the SAME . The gifts are meant for one reason . TO EDIFY THE CHURCH .
And we aint HOME YET , SO yeah the churche still has the gifts .
Now i am one who holds firm too , YA GOTTA TEST EVERYTHING that is being done .
Cause i know the dark spirits can mimic things . I seen kundanli all over folks .
They go acting the clown , twisting and jerking , and acting UNSEEMINGLY .
Barking like dogs , stuttering words and the messages , WELL IT CONTRADICTS THE BIBLE BIG TIME .
One lady who was in ADULTERY , stood up before the church
and starts doing the oddest head jerks
and talking about a GOLDEN ELEPHANT . YEAH , THAT AINT COMING FROM GOD FOLKS .
Not to mention the message was on WORLDLY JUNK , prophesying of money and pipe dreams . YEAH IT AINT COMING FROM GOD .
But I KNOW you know that .
All the gifts are STILL HERE for the church . And not everyone will have the same gift .
Some will still speak in tongues . OH YES TONGUES IS REAL .
Some will still interpret . healings are still real . Its all still here and available .
Spiritual discernment IS REAL . All the gifts are still real . ITS THE SAME GOD , SAME CHRIST , SAME SPIRIT .
SO oh yes i do not follow cessationists .
BUT , and again i say BUT , IF anything contradicts scrips , I SHUN IT AND REAL FAST .
Cause a lot of folks in the nar , prosperity , charasemetic . WELL lets just say KUNDANLINI is at work
and a spirit of divination is at work . So allow me some parting words .
READ BIBLE , LOVE BIBLE , EMBRACE ER WORD OF GOD . cause i have never seen delusion
like i am seeing today within christendom and the world to unify all under a false love to be as one .
Allow me this reminder too . I had rather be dead and rotted in the ground than to take a sip of that false lovey cup .

 

[amigo de christo]

That is why true seasoned lambs are so hated . Read closely . folks dont like correction and words o truth .

 

[Johann]

View attachment 34491
That is why true seasoned lambs are so hated . Read closely . folks dont like correction and words o truth .

So- we have two camps-those who "hear" voices and those who don't-and those who "hear" voices wants to tell those that don't that they are not saved.

I have my Bible-and the sealing of the Holy Spirit and never in my life have I heard the "Kol" of YHVH or the Ruach HaKodesh.

This is getting more and more interesting

Mat_24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

Mar_13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

Joh_4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe