Does the bible prohibit a woman from being a "pastor"?

[mjrhealth]

No, Paul did not limit his comments to teachers specifically as you can see below. A pastor, Biblically speaking, is an "overseer." This is a position of authority. Exercising authority is an inherent function of an overseer. Therefore, a woman cannot be a pasto

r.

Mens reasoning, lets see, Christ is the head of the Church, Christ is the final word, the final authority. If Christ calls a women to teach, and you reject her word, you are rejecting Christ it is just that simple. You can sit here and argue the point with scripture all you like, it will not change the fact that God will use whom He chooses and could not care if you agree or not.

Mat 23:24 Ye blind guides, which strain at a gnat, and swallow a camel.

In all His Love

 

[neophyte]

Regardless of your Protestant pastors, man or woman, it doesn't make any difference, neither are valid ,because none of your 'pastors' are ordained the bible way.

 

[dragonfly]

God will use whom He chooses and could not care if you agree or not.

True!

 

[7angels]

can women be a pastor?

well if we look at issues throughout the word we find out that Jesus and paul taught that it is not what we do physically that condemns us but our hearts. as hammerstone pointed out that the bible does not conflict with itself so when there seems to be a conflict within scripture then we need to get into the word to determine what is being said and what it means so we don't have the conflict anymore. it is not easy to jump into scripture and find correct revelation for our answers. most times we stick with what we are taught or what is the easiest answer to believe. especially when scripture is available to back up our points. but conflicting views tells us there is a misunderstanding somewhere. this is where dividing the word comes in. there are many times different ways to reach the same conclusion.

now i believe what kaoticprofit said in post #35 because of research i have done myself but let us look at this issue from different directions.

1. old testaments shows us God has chosen women for leadership roles over isreal. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. in other words God does not change. God would not do something one day then change his mind and forbid it. that is referred to as being a hypocrite and God is not a hypocrite.
2. we are all the bride of Christ(hopefully) and Jesus is the groom. Jesus lets his bride do anything as long as it is not against the will and purpose of God. Jesus actually encourages us to go out into the world and preach the word of God to every creature. Jesus encourages us to teach others. Jesus tells us to imitate himself. Jesus stood in every ministry position of the gospel. Jesus healed others, moved in the supernatural, and ect. Jesus did what he saw the father do and we are to do as Jesus did. men have a greater burden(gift) then women because we are taught to be submissive to God and women according to the word were created to be submissive(humble) where men according to the word are created to lead but this has caused complications because men need to be submissive also which does not come naturally and thus causes men to fall into a ditch where men are to lead and have total authority but forget that every leader is a servant to those under them. this is where leadership gets abused when leadership is used for gain instead of helping others. the more responsibility a leader is given the more they are meant to serve(god's view) but the world view looks at it as getting ahead, being better then those under them and leads to the abuse of their positions. we see this a lot both in the church and in the world. but we are not supposed to be of this world.
3. the trinity is always in agreement with each other. they never do anything contrary to one another. so if women were not supposed to teach then why would God anoint them? that would conflict with what we know of the trinity. and yet it is undeniable that many of these women are anointed in their preaching, teaching, and ect by God. so to say God would never choose a women as pastor or in any other position of church leadership is like making yourself God. we are taught in the word what standards to judge others by who are we to tell God what he can and cannot do? that is pride thinking and pride is a sin.
4. God teaches that there is no such thing as male and female. so why do we put so much emphasis on the differences instead of the similarities? Jesus does not look at us as superior so why do we do it?
5. God teaches there is nothing impossible to us if we only believe. but by believing women cannot pastor for example puts limitations upon them which is also unscriptural

i could go on and on. there is more evidence for women having the option to pastor then there is against. these are a few of my reasons on this subject on why women can be pastors.

God bless

 

[neophyte]

can women be a pastor?

well if we look at issues throughout the word we find out that Jesus and paul taught that it is not what we do physically that condemns us but our hearts. as hammerstone pointed out that the bible does not conflict with itself so when there seems to be a conflict within scripture then we need to get into the word to determine what is being said and what it means so we don't have the conflict anymore. it is not easy to jump into scripture and find correct revelation for our answers. most times we stick with what we are taught or what is the easiest answer to believe. especially when scripture is available to back up our points. but conflicting views tells us there is a misunderstanding somewhere. this is where dividing the word comes in. there are many times different ways to reach the same conclusion.

now i believe what kaoticprofit said in post #35 because of research i have done myself but let us look at this issue from different directions.

1. old testaments shows us God has chosen women for leadership roles over isreal. God is the same yesterday, today, and forever. in other words God does not change. God would not do something one day then change his mind and forbid it. that is referred to as being a hypocrite and God is not a hypocrite.
2. we are all the bride of Christ(hopefully) and Jesus is the groom. Jesus lets his bride do anything as long as it is not against the will and purpose of God. Jesus actually encourages us to go out into the world and preach the word of God to every creature. Jesus encourages us to teach others. Jesus tells us to imitate himself. Jesus stood in every ministry position of the gospel. Jesus healed others, moved in the supernatural, and ect. Jesus did what he saw the father do and we are to do as Jesus did. men have a greater burden(gift) then women because we are taught to be submissive to God and women according to the word were created to be submissive(humble) where men according to the word are created to lead but this has caused complications because men need to be submissive also which does not come naturally and thus causes men to fall into a ditch where men are to lead and have total authority but forget that every leader is a servant to those under them. this is where leadership gets abused when leadership is used for gain instead of helping others. the more responsibility a leader is given the more they are meant to serve(god's view) but the world view looks at it as getting ahead, being better then those under them and leads to the abuse of their positions. we see this a lot both in the church and in the world. but we are not supposed to be of this world.
3. the trinity is always in agreement with each other. they never do anything contrary to one another. so if women were not supposed to teach then why would God anoint them? that would conflict with what we know of the trinity. and yet it is undeniable that many of these women are anointed in their preaching, teaching, and ect by God. so to say God would never choose a women as pastor or in any other position of church leadership is like making yourself God. we are taught in the word what standards to judge others by who are we to tell God what he can and cannot do? that is pride thinking and pride is a sin.
4. God teaches that there is no such thing as male and female. so why do we put so much emphasis on the differences instead of the similarities? Jesus does not look at us as superior so why do we do it?
5. God teaches there is nothing impossible to us if we only believe. but by believing women cannot pastor for example puts limitations upon them which is also unscriptural

i could go on and on. there is more evidence for women having the option to pastor then there is against. these are a few of my reasons on this subject on why women can be pastors.

God bless

In addressing your above post ; in your opening statement about:" hammerstone pointed out that the bible does not conflict with itself so when there seems to be a conflict within scripture then we need to get into the word to determine what is being said and what it means so we don't have the conflict anymore. it is not easy to jump into scripture and find correct revelation for our answers."
The answer to that is from the Holy Bible, which tells us that only the Church has the answers for all Christian Truth along with the original interpretation of Holy Scripture ,both are needed together [ Mt. 16:18-19; 18:18; Jn. 20:23 ]. Church is pillar / foundation of truth - { 1 Tim. 3:15 ]

 

[Winnetou]

Regardless of your Protestant pastors, man or woman, it doesn't make any difference, neither are valid ,because none of your 'pastors' are ordained the bible way.

Who claims this? The Bible? You are mistaken there, my dear! At the beginning of the early Church, women were in the spiritual office just the same as men. The superseding of women out of the office as apostle, bishop and deaconess happened slowly and creepingly. To this there is to read lots of books from church historians in German. Those of the Roman Catholic church belong also.

 

[neophyte]

Who claims this? The Bible? You are mistaken there, my dear! At the beginning of the early Church, women were in the spiritual office just the same as men. The superseding of women out of the office as apostle, bishop and deaconess happened slowly and creepingly. To this there is to read lots of books from church historians in German. Those of the Roman Catholic church belong also.

I'm sorry you're wrong. And I'm sticking to my story , not one woman was ever ordained as described from the Holy Bible, unless you can show me competent documentation outside the bible.I haven't read any proof of what you state, neither from the early Church Christians or from secular sources.Please disclose your source.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi neophyte,

Regardless of your Protestant pastors, man or woman, it doesn't make any difference, neither are valid ,because none of your 'pastors' are ordained the bible way.

It is God Himself who ordains people through His word and His Spirit. Then He supports them in the thing He's called them to be and do. This is the Bible's way. I haven't made a separate case for women, as the most important aspect of God's work in a life, is to bring them to Himself for a meaningful relationship as Father to son.

John 16:32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me. 33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Hebrews 12:9 Furthermore, we had the fathers of our flesh to chasten us, and we gave them reverence:
shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live?

John 20:21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace [be] unto you: as [my] Father hath sent me, even so send I you.

Ephesians 4:1 - 16 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, with all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; 3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

[There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)

And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: that we [henceforth] be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; but speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, [even] Christ: from whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; 21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Ephesians 1:18 - 23The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, and what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places], far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: 22 And hath put all [things] under his feet, and gave him [to be] the head over all [things] to the church, which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

1 Peter 2:1 - 10 Wherefore laying aside all malice, and all guile, and hypocrisies, and envies, and all evil speakings, as newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby: if so be ye have tasted that the Lord [is] gracious; to whom coming, [as unto] a living stone, disallowed indeed of men, but chosen of God, [and] precious, ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded. Unto you therefore which believe [he is] precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, and a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, [even to them] which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. But ye [are] a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: which in time past [were] not a people, but [are] now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

Jesus Christ is the Rock on which we are built as living stones, to become His dwelling place - a temple - in which He is glorified. Peter's new name just means a little stone like the big stone, it doesn't mean a massive rock. That's how we, too, can be living (little) stones, built together into a place God wants to dwell.

Peter goes on to urge his readers to 'give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall'.(2:1:10) What he meant by that, is that we are to obey our Father in heaven, as Jesus warned us:

Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Jesus expects believers to hear Father in heaven speaking to them, just as of Himself, He said:

John 10:'... the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. 4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. 5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers... 9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture... 14 I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine.


In other words. we go in by the same Door that Peter went in, and we have the same authority in Christ as he did, although the calling on his life was different from the calling on mine or yours. The principles which govern it's beginning, its function and its end, are the same.

John 1:12 '... as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

This is the Church, obscured by denominational labels, perhaps, but this is the Church of the Bible.

 

[aspen]

Neophyte - what about women holding the office of the Deaconate? It is Biblical. I believe the Vatican needs to make some changes in this area.

 

[Winnetou]

I'm sorry you're wrong. And I'm sticking to my story , not one woman was ever ordained as described from the Holy Bible, unless you can show me competent documentation outside the bible.I haven't read any proof of what you state, neither from the early Church Christians or from secular sources.Please disclose your source.

I think only one helps against so much ignorance of facts: Facts!
We take as an example the Junia often already mentioned which was made a man, Junias, in the 12th century. From Wikipedia:

It is called in the remarks of the Bible in a just language (modern Bible translation in German):

The man name of Junias is in most older Bible editions " here. There has not been this name for men in the antiquity, the woman name Junia, however, was usual. The interpretations in the time of the old church read »Junia« here. The difference between the two names only consists in the interpretation of an accent. Later jibs could not any more they changed the text imagine therefore that a woman as an apostle is honored here.“

- remark 717 Bible in a just language

Source: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junia_%28Apostel%29, translated in German by myself

Or here, another Quote from the same source:

" It is something great to be an apostle. Consider which great praise this is but famous under the apostles. How big the wisdom must have been for this woman that was she found to be worthy for the title apostle.“

- Johannes Chrysostomos

(translate by myself)

He lived in the 4th century, . and was one of the substantial Church Fathers and teachers. Moreover, he was also a bishop

At the American Wikipedia, these quotes wer missing. Why?

 

[aspen]

I think only one helps against so much ignorance of facts: Facts!
We take as an example the Junia often already mentioned which was made a man, Junias, in the 12th century. From Wikipedia:

Source: http://de.wikipedia....Junia_(Apostel), translated in German by myself

Or here, another Quote from the same source:

(translate by myself)

He lived in the 4th century, . and was one of the substantial Church Fathers and teachers. Moreover, he was also a bishop

At the American Wikipedia, these quotes wer missing. Why?

I recognize your wisdom - please continue to instruct us.....

 

[Winnetou]

I recognize your wisdom - please continue to instruct us.....

Search yourself for wisdom and knowledge. Nobody can do your search for you.

 

[Kidron]

I aspire to be rich monetarily. But in my giving I don't let my right hand let my left hand know what it's doing. Joyce and Benny and the others are receiving their reward now. I don't envy them, I pity them. They are giving up eternal reward for the admiration of men.

----------You know I'm right.

Do you really think that J Meyers and Benny H are in it for the fame and their nights spent in a Ramada Inn??
Is that why they sacrifice their time and energy and lifestyle to travel and preach most of their last 30 years.?
Perhaps it is better if they just sit on forums like you do and rant about people who are actually involved in ministry...... who in their opinion are doing it all wrong..
But, I kinda doubt it.

Here is what i do know..
Both Joyce and Benny have seen a lot of people saved,, helped, and healed, under their ministry, and will see a lot more.
So that is "fruit", and if they both have to deal with greed and selfish ambition, then thats about like all other ministers......isnt it.
Have you ever met a minister who does not want a bigger church until he got it, and then after he did, he wants a TV ministry.
This is "people" as they are self designed and God uses us anyway..
How about that....
So, each of those souls that have been saved in Meyers/Hinn's ministry count in God's perspective.
How about in yours ?



K

 

[neophyte]

Winnetou, you are half-correct, Junias was a female , but not an apostle . Junias was well known among the apostles as a very devout Christian , but not an apostle.

 

[Episkopos]

Winnetou, you are half-correct, Junias was a female , but not an apostle . Junias was well known among the apostles as a very devout Christian , but not an apostle.

The church met at her/his house in any regard. This is before the paganized version of Christianity (which is much more popular with the masses) made it's debut.

 

[biggandyy]

Do you really think that J Meyers and Benny H are in it for the fame and their nights spent in a Ramada Inn??
Is that why they sacrifice their time and energy and lifestyle to travel and preach most of their last 30 years.?
Perhaps it is better if they just sit on forums like you do and rant about people who are actually involved in ministry...... who in their opinion are doing it all wrong..
But, I kinda doubt it.

Here is what i do know..
Both Joyce and Benny have seen a lot of people saved,, helped, and healed, under their ministry, and will see a lot more.
So that is "fruit", and if they both have to deal with greed and selfish ambition, then thats about like all other ministers......isnt it.
Have you ever met a minister who does not want a bigger church until he got it, and then after he did, he wants a TV ministry.
This is "people" as they are self designed and God uses us anyway..
How about that....
So, each of those souls that have been saved in Meyers/Hinn's ministry count in God's perspective.
How about in yours ?



K

They are false teachers at best and apostate at worst. They have saved no one (only the Holy Spirit saves) and they have healed no one (only the Holy Spirit heals). They may be sincere but they are sincerely wrong on a great many things.

 

[neophyte]

They are false teachers at best and apostate at worst. They have saved no one (only the Holy Spirit saves) and they have healed no one (only the Holy Spirit heals). They may be sincere but they are sincerely wrong on a great many things.

Yes, and the Holy Spirit only fell upon the apostles , [ nucleus of Christ's Church- teachers, presyters, priests, bishops ] not the other 120 that were in the same building, but not in the upper chamber/room ] Jesus only ever commissions His first priests in this verse [ Matt. 28: 18-20 ] and we see that Jesus wants His biblical ordained ones to continue His sanctifying work on earth [ 2nd Corinthians 5:20 ] Why and what is a priest ? A man who offers sacrifice to God for the sins of the people, as described here [ Hebrews 5: 1 ] Jesus was a priest [ Heb. 2:17 ]
The Apostles, who were ordained to the priesthood by Jesus Himself.
Jesus made the Apostles priests at the Last Supper - [ Luke 22:19 ]
And those Apostles ordained other priests and successors ,for example, Paul, Barnabas, Timothy, Titus and Matthias- [ Acts 13:3 ] [ Acts 14:22 ] [ Acts 12:4-26 ] and [ Titus 1:5 ]
The Apostles "ordained" the bible way ,not your unbiblical way, [ Acts 13:3 ].[ 1st Timothy 5:22 ]
We know that the authority of the priesthood came directly from Jesus to His Apostles/ Successors [ Luke 10:16 ]

 

[biggandyy]

No, I am as much a priest as the local vicar. The veil of the Temple was torn in two, not draped over the shoulders of Peter.

The gifts they purport to claim as their own are possesed by no one until the Temple is rebuilt and the sacrifice started anew in the future.

They are chasing after the wind and will reap the whirlwind in the life to come.

 

[Arnie Manitoba]

(snip).....In these verses, we see the following. First, Jesus builds His Church (“ecclesia”) upon the person of Peter. .... (snip) ...Only the Catholic Church recognizes and proves through an unbroken lineage of successors that her foundation is Peter.

neophyte - I am not Catholic , nor am I anti-Catholic.

I will not argue against your position on Peter as the "founder" of what we now know as the Roman Catholic Church.

But I would like to point out something often overlooked by most Christians.

Jesus (built) (builds) His Church on the foundations of the 12 Apostles , not just one Apostle named Peter.

(From Revelation 21) ..... the topic is The New Jerusalem coming down to earth ..... make note of the 12 gates and the 12 foundations ....
.............
It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
..............

If the New Jerusalem and The Bride of The Lamb was all based on only one Apostle (Peter) .... I feel The Lord would have pointed that out and saved himself explaining the other 11 foundations and the 12 Gates .

Best wishes in your studies neophyte , and if you are Catholic , be the best one ever.

I will also plead guilty on behalf of all the other (Protestant-type) denominations who also feel they alone are the exclusive Church . It is an error we make as well. Thank you.

Arnie

 

[neophyte]

No, I am as much a priest as the local vicar. The veil of the Temple was torn in two, not draped over the shoulders of Peter.

The gifts they purport to claim as their own are possesed by no one until the Temple is rebuilt and the sacrifice started anew in the future.

They are chasing after the wind and will reap the whirlwind in the life to come.

In a sense we are all priests.[ 1 Peter 2:9 ] But this title is not what bestows the power to forgive sins. God sent Jesus to forgive sins, and Jesus conferred the power to forgive sins on the apostles when he said, "‘As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.’ And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, ‘Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained’" (John 20:21-23). This power to forgive sins has been passed on to the apostles’ successors and to priests ordained to the ministerial priesthood through the sacrament of holy orders.
Catholics recognize the difference between the priesthood of the faithful and the ministerial priesthood:

Priesthood: (1) Of the faithful: The priestly people of God. Christ has made of his Church a "kingdom of priests," and gives the faithful a share in his priesthood through the sacraments of baptism and confirmation. (2) Ministerial: The ministerial priesthood received in the sacrament of holy orders differs in essence from this common priesthood of all the faithful. It has as its purpose to serve the priesthood of all the faithful by building up and guiding the Church in the name of Christ, who is head of the Body.​

Jesus only ordained His Apostles along with their Successors as in [ Luke 10:16 ] and [ Matt. 28: 18-20 ] priests as in [ 2nd Corinthians 5:20 ] you certainly do not fit into this role - [ Hebrews 5:1 ] can you consecrete other priests as Jesus gave this authority and power only to His Apostles/Successors , so as they could ordain other qualified priests ,for example Paul, Barnabas , Timothy, Titus and Matthias and they ordain other qualified priests ,so on and so on , were you included? If so, show me your historical documentation from apostolic lineage.Never mind your own personal unbiblical individualism which untermines and abolished the ' priesthood' [ Matt. 18:18 ] and the sacrament of ordination, contrary to Christian Tradition and the Holy Bible [ Acts 6:6 ] [ Acts 14:22 ] [ 1Tim. 4:14 ] [ 2 Tim 1: 6 ] The Catholic Church retains the Pauline notion of the spiritual practicality of a celebate clergy [ e.g., Matt. 19: 12 ] [ 1 Cor. 7:8 , 27, 32-3 ]

neophyte - I am not Catholic , nor am I anti-Catholic.

I will not argue against your position on Peter as the "founder" of what we now know as the Roman Catholic Church.

But I would like to point out something often overlooked by most Christians.

Jesus (built) (builds) His Church on the foundations of the 12 Apostles , not just one Apostle named Peter.

(From Revelation 21) ..... the topic is The New Jerusalem coming down to earth ..... make note of the 12 gates and the 12 foundations ....
.............
It had a great, high wall with twelve gates, and with twelve angels at the gates. On the gates were written the names of the twelve tribes of Israel. 13 There were three gates on the east, three on the north, three on the south and three on the west. 14 The wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.
..............

If the New Jerusalem and The Bride of The Lamb was all based on only one Apostle (Peter) .... I feel The Lord would have pointed that out and saved himself explaining the other 11 foundations and the 12 Gates .

Best wishes in your studies neophyte , and if you are Catholic , be the best one ever.

I will also plead guilty on behalf of all the other (Protestant-type) denominations who also feel they alone are the exclusive Church . It is an error we make as well. Thank you.

Arnie

Arnie, thank you for your explanation, along with your kind way of writing. I am not an educated person ,pleas excuse my crudeness of writing.

Yes, i only know two existing today , St Peter and St.Andrew . Peter the Apostle [ Catholic ] and Andrew [ Eastern Orthodox ]

Allow me to comment on the Book of Revelation that you reference. Few books in the Bible are misinterpreted and abused as much as the Book of Revelation. Apocalyptic literature is written to people who are suffering from persecution, both the Book of Daniel and Revelation were written in a four hundred year period and under similar circumstances.