Does the bible prohibit a woman from being a "pastor"?

[Kidron]

Now, this is an interesting topic, isnt it?

Ive 2 best friends who belong to different churches which both have a woman as the pastor.

Is this biblical, .....unbiblical?
Is this heresy or "out of order"?

Well, im an evangelist and a teacher and a minstrel, and ive been to seminary and ive studied the word for a long time.
I know what it says about this issue, but, im someone who would not condemn a woman if she felt called to be a pastor.
I would not encourage her to do it, because i can find no scriptural evidence to support this position as given by Paul.
As far as i can tell, Paul is pretty negative specific about women even being teachers in the body of Christ.....but on the other hand, i have to realize that Paul was also a jew, a pharisee, who was steeped in a very deep jewish theocracy which did not accept the liferole of a woman to be anything other then a baby maker or ministry helper, pretty much..
Maybe by now, had Paul lived another 2000 years, he would have softened his positioned a bit about woman being "teachers", as he said it was "him" who didnt let a woman teach, ....he never said this was a revelation from God he was sharing.
Did you notice this???
Would Paul in 2012 say that a woman cannot be a Pastor?..........yeah..
And the bible says clearly that a pastor/bishop is to be the , "husband of one wife"...
So, im pretty sure that eliminates a woman as a Pastor/Bishop..
So, unless you are a transsexual/transgender-minded girl you are not going to qualify for that scripture and if you are a transsexual/transgender-minded, you probably should not try to qualify, as a matter of fact, im certain you should not.

On the other hand, a woman can be in the ministry as any of the other 4 fold ministers.......she can evangelize, she can be an apostle, a teacher, (tho Paul might argue with this one)...
Certainly she can be a missionary, tho missionary/apostle are the back and front of the same coin.
She can do everything but be a pastor or perhaps a deacon, and yes there are some who are Pastors/deacons, however, this is not supported by Paul or the scriptures.
Does God allow it?........yeah, but this is not the same as him condoning it or approving it....tho he might bless it. (tho I really cant answer that one.)


Would i go to hear a woman preach?.... Sure, i would go hear Joyce Meyers if she came to Israel, however, Joyce does not claim to be a pastor., and this is because she understands God's perspective.
Would i go to hear the women pastors who i mentioned that pastor my 2 best friends?.... Sure i would..
However, I would have a problem with joining their church.
And if ither of the those women asked me my opinion about their position, i would just tell them what Paul says...
I would say........."are you a male by birth husband of one wife"?..........well, until you are, next subject please......"
However, i would not try to talk them out of their situation.
And the reason is......i think that (if they are really born again and have their NT doctrine in order) they are doing a good work, even if the work they are doing is not completely in alignment with Paul.
After all, Jesus himself said that if someone is not against us they are for us, and certainly a woman pastor who has given her life to the Lord is not against him.
Maybe she is out of >order, but at least she is on the right side.





K

 

[Episkopos]

It is simple:

An unregenarate woman: Questions everything. Does whatever pleases her.

A Spiritual woman: Knows that she is to please God not herself. So she only follows the Spirit and does not seek to impose her views on men. Rather she shows the truth by her submissive example. This is pleasing to the Lord.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Kidron,

Does the Bible ever suggest that just one person should be the sole minister to all the other 'members' of the assembly?


Here's a little snippet for you to ponder. Sorry I can't remember which famous Christian woman had this experience, but you might know.

One day, the Lord asked her to go for Him - to be a missionary, I think - and she didn't want to do it, asking Him whether a man ought not to be fulfilling this ministry?

The Lord replied: 'I've asked fifty men. Now, will you go?'

She said, 'Yes'.



The title of your thread doesn't really take into account the problem God has in finding men after His own heart, to feed His sheep. I go to a Methodist church (when I go), which has a team ministry style of leadership, but no elders, only deacons. Not only is the lead ordained minister in this circuit of congregations, a woman - a woman of prayer and the Word - but many of the local preachers are also women. There are men too, but it would be rare to find a Sunday where the morning and evening preachers leading the worship and bringing the word, were both men.

 

[mjrhealth]

To God the only thing different between a man and a women is this orrible thing called the flesh, We are all one spirit, there is neither male or feamle in the spirirt. God will use whom He chooses nd really does not care for mans oinions. He uses both men and women because He can and they are both willing.
In all His Love

 

[Nomad]

Not only is there no Biblical support for female pastors/elders, there are explicit Biblical prohibitions against it. There is also no indication whatsoever that these prohibitions are limited to Jews. Example:

1Ti 2:12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was formed first, then Eve;
1Ti 2:14 and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor.

Notice how Paul appeals to the order of creation as well as the fact that Eve was deceived. Neither of these are exclusively "Jewish" concepts.

 

[biggandyy]

It is simple:

An unregenarate woman: Questions everything. Does whatever pleases her.

A Spiritual woman: Knows that she is to please God not herself. So she only follows the Spirit and does not seek to impose her views on men. Rather she shows the truth by her submissive example. This is pleasing to the Lord.

We won't see eye to eye on many things, but this is a +1

 

[veteran]

Apostle Paul was clear 1 Timothy 2 about women not making up the Christian authority over men, nor as teachers over men (i.e., the pastor office). But he did not prohibit women from witnessing The Gospel of Jesus Christ, nor with their wanting to learn.

 

[Kidron]

It is simple:

An unregenarate woman: Questions everything. Does whatever pleases her.

A Spiritual woman: Knows that she is to please God not herself. So she only follows the Spirit and does not seek to impose her views on men. Rather she shows the truth by her submissive example. This is pleasing to the Lord.

Thanks for all that, however, about the thread't topic,......and concerning the threads topic, do you have a comment?
love to hear it.



K

Hi Kidron,

Does the Bible ever suggest that just one person should be the sole minister to all the other 'members' of the assembly?


Here's a little snippet for you to ponder. Sorry I can't remember which famous Christian woman had this experience, but you might know.

One day, the Lord asked her to go for Him - to be a missionary, I think - and she didn't want to do it, asking Him whether a man ought not to be fulfilling this ministry?

The Lord replied: 'I've asked fifty men. Now, will you go?'

She said, 'Yes'.



The title of your thread doesn't really take into account the problem God has in finding men after His own heart, to feed His sheep. I go to a Methodist church (when I go), which has a team ministry style of leadership, but no elders, only deacons. Not only is the lead ordained minister in this circuit of congregations, a woman - a woman of prayer and the Word - but many of the local preachers are also women. There are men too, but it would be rare to find a Sunday where the morning and evening preachers leading the worship and bringing the word, were both men.

Dragonfly...

Setting aside the biblical theological perspective for a moment while trying to ignore your lack of gender appropriation in your forum profile, i will agree that God will use a braying donkey to do the job, if a prophet wont go.
God will even use a Whale or a "big fish" to take a Prophet where he would not have gone by free will.

And, i think it was Joyce Meyers who once said, if i heard her correctly, "that one of the reasons she felt the call to preach, is that some man God called, refused, and she didnt'".


Happy thoughts while blessings abound to you DF,


K

To God the only thing different between a man and a women is this orrible thing called the flesh, We are all one spirit, there is neither male or feamle in the spirirt. God will use whom He chooses nd really does not care for mans oinions. He uses both men and women because He can and they are both willing.
In all His Love

Is your part time job to be Rachel Maddow.??????
Im just kidding...

and also there is this to consider....concerning the differences between the male human and the female human..


-

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Kidron,

Thanks for your appreciation of my comment.

Apart from what your illustration appears to show about the complexity of 'female humans', how do you read what it shows about 'male humans' - a certain simplicity; a one-track mind; the ability to focus - or, is it the reason God said, 'Two are better than one'? (Eccl 4:9)

 

[biggandyy]

Truthly, I don't see the difference between a braying donkey and Joyce Meyer anyway.

 

[Axehead]

Being a Pastor in today's Institutional Church, may well be synonymous with "exercising authority" over men, but many in the Body of Christ have a pastor's (shepherd's) heart. Females as well as males have been given the gift of shepherding which is nothing more than caring for and feeding the sheep. You will not convince me that God has not distributed gifts of shepherding and caring for His sheep to women, too. Now, what I just said, has nothing to do with a man who leads a 501c-3 organization and administrates secretarys, worship teams, ushers and hostesses, collects money and pay bills.

What I am talking about is relational, organic ministry to the members of the Body of Christ.

I have seen many women operating in the gift of shepherding other sheep.

Selah!

Axehead

 

[mark s]

Truthly, I don't see the difference between a braying donkey and Joyce Meyer anyway.

Dude!

 

[Kidron]

Hi Kidron,

Thanks for your appreciation of my comment.

Apart from what your illustration appears to show about the complexity of 'female humans', how do you read what it shows about 'male humans' - a certain simplicity; a one-track mind; the ability to focus - or, is it the reason God said, 'Two are better than one'? (Eccl 4:9)

DragonFly,

u are welcome, regarding my appreciation..........

and, think of it like this..

If a man is a battery, then a woman/mate is his battery charger.
If a man is the engine in a jet, then the woman is the wings whereupon it rests.
Eve was taken from Adam,.........a rib.
A rib is a support device that protects Adam's heart.

Yet, do i think that men are "one track ponies"?
I think that some men have the ability to mentally multitask, and others have the ability not to be able to do it.
I think its easier for a woman to occupy the same skill ^^^ position.
Other then that i would say that women love longer when all hope is gone, and that women make better mothers;-)
I prefer to argue with women, but im not sure thats a compliment i just applied to myself (Insert Kidron frown here).

Im not certain that women are more complex or if they are more confused.......(further study is needed).
-

-

Things i wish a woman would not do, include:..

Infantry

and lastly, i think it easier to pick a name for a baby girl then for a baby boy.



K

 

[Foreigner]

Truthly, I don't see the difference between a braying donkey and Joyce Meyer anyway.

-- The the problem is actually you and not Joyce Meyer......or the donkey.

 

[Kidron]

-- The the problem is actually you and not Joyce Meyer......or the donkey.

Is there some confusion here ?
seems so.




K

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Kidron,

Infantry women... I agree... wish they would not do.

Your post gave me several smiles, especially this sentence, which doesn't seem to solve anything... lol

I think that some men have the ability to mentally multitask, and others have the ability not to be able to do it.

So, we might not be any further forward if not for the Lord's intervention...

1 Corinthians 12:4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

Athough it's better to know you're confused than to not know you're confused... :unsure:


But the Lord has a plan...

Jeremiah 3:15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.

Jeremiah 29:13 And ye shall seek me, and find [me], when ye shall search for me with all your heart.



Amen.

 

[biggandyy]

http://nakedlaw.avvo.com/2010/06/6-outrageously-wealthy-preachers-under-federal-investigation/

Not much of a witness for Christ now is she?

----------You know I'm right.

 

[Kidron]

http://nakedlaw.avvo...-investigation/

Not much of a witness for Christ now is she?

----------You know I'm right.

Sounds to me as if you have a rich case of envy.
Do you envy the rich biggandyy?

Are you saying that if you have money or prosperity you are not a true witness for Christ?
Are you defining real Christianity as the ability to live in sickness and poverty?
Do you have a "poverty gospel" mentality?
Many do.
They believe that living in poverty is the prooftest of spirituality.
Actually, all that poverty proves is that you ither cant handle money, or you dont understand this scripture.

Deut 8:18.


K

 

[dragonfly]

Actually, all that poverty proves is that you ither cant handle money, or you dont understand this scripture.

Deut 8:18.

But, Jesus said it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. So, becoming rich is one thing, and staying rich is another. We become like the things to which we give our attention.

Matthew 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. 22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. 23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great [is] that darkness! 24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

 

[Kidron]

But, Jesus said it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. So, becoming rich is one thing, and staying rich is another. We become like the things to which we give our attention.

Matthew 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. 22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. 23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great [is] that darkness! 24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

But, Jesus said it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. So, becoming rich is one thing, and staying rich is another. We become like the things to which we give our attention.

Matthew 6:19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. 22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. 23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great [is] that darkness! 24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

I wonder why it is, that a lot of believers assume....that if a person has money, it must be because its their God.
I think this type of foregone concluding, is very unfair, if not completely unfounded regarding most believers who are financially well off..
I dont mean to sound offensive, but are you someone God cant trust to give a million dollars?
And if he did, would you not use it for his glory according to his will?
Could you not be a channel whereby God flows financial blessing THROUGH to others?
And if you are, then why castigate any believer whom God wants to bless financially?
Isnt it up to God?
And does he not do it based on obedience, faith, and according to his will?

Joyce Meyers and James Robinson are 2 good examples.
Both are rich, and both spend millions on water wells in Africa, Hospitals in 3rd world areas, and in general just feeding the poor.
I think there is a lesson here., and that is........God has "riches in Glory" that are not just spiritual, and he is always looking for a faith channel to pour $$$$$ through.
Why cant you , reader, be such a channel?
Are you saying you will betray God if he gives you a lot of money?
Are you saying that if you cant handle it, then i cant<, or noone can who is born again?
That is fallacy, related to an opinion you have, if you have it.........and it just wrong-minded.

Look, you know what poverty does?
It traps you into a survival situation, and in this situation you are not able to give most of your time to God, because you are spending all your time trying to survive.
Listen, TIME is how you spend your Christianity........understand?
And if you have a life that is spent trying to survive, then all your time is not being spent for God.
Thats a FACT.
So, having money frees you from having to spend all your time trying to EAT and pay BILLS, etc.
And in this, you have TIME for God that you will not have if you are poor.
Dont even try to argue a ridiculous argument about this.
Just face the fact that if you are poor, your life , your time, is going to be spent trying to survive, FIRST,,,,,and then any time you have left over, ...maybe God gets it.
But if you have MONEY, you time changes.
Understand?
So, you think about that........a bit.........before you worship poverty as some God sent invention to enhance "spirituality"..
He didnt send anything that robs your time from him.
Fact.

Its the same with the phony theology that rants... ......"well you know Kidron, sometimes God sends cancer to TEST his saints.".
Well............. HORSEFEATHERS. !!!!!!!!!!!
He does NOT send what Jesus came to Destroy in John 10:10.

I think its a dangerous and harmful theology to run around blaming sickness and poverty on The KING of Glory.
And Jesus is a King., and we are heirs of a King.
He didnt come out of that grave the same way he went into it.......did you notice?
He went into it a suffering lamb, but he AROSE a KING OF KINGS, and we are the HEIR of this King.,and this KING is INSIDE YOU< and you are "IN CHRIST".
Did you forget?

Did you ever notice that Jesus never made anyone sick according to your bible?
Did he ever cast a demon INTO a person.?
Is he now CHANGED since he started living INSIDE YOU?
Are you thinking?

Yet, Christians today run around today all over the world, all over Christian forms, loaded for bear with their self-righteous theology pack tied to their mouths attributing sickness and poverty to the King and his Father, instead of blaming the DEVIL who came to kill, steal, and destroy......John 10:10
And its our bible that says Jesus came to DESTROY these very works.......= works.......John 10:10
So, is the bible lying?........or are Christians deceived who blame God for the very works the bible says Jesus came to "Destroy".
Listen, did Jesus The Christ come to give you "Life and that more abundantly".... or did he come to test you with Cancer and a Brain tumor?
You need to figure that out asap.

I do believe that the Gospel of John says its blasphemy of the Holy Spirit to attribute to the Holy Spirit the works of the Devil.

So be careful , reader, very careful whom you blame for poverty and sickness in the live of a Born Again Child of God.



AP