70 AD revisited

[Timtofly]

Link to a/the post in which I demand numbers to make things sound more important.

Speaking of numbers, the number of times over recent times that I've challenged you to provide a link to something that you claim I've said, and which you've failed to provide because I've never said it, could sound important.

Maybe it could even be important.

Link to your own posts.

Make up your mind.

 

[covenantee]

Make up your mind.

You first.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

In Daniel 9:27, when it talks about the sacrifices and offerings ceasing, it is not talking about the literal end of sacrifices and offerings, it is talking about them being made obsolete (no longer in effect, no longer necessary). You do understand that Christ's sacrifice made the old covenant animal sacrifices and offerings obsolete (no longer in effect, no longer necessary), don't you? They were no longer required after Christ's sacrifice. They were only continued because of people foolishly not acknowledging what Christ's sacrifice had accomplished.

thats not how prophecy works. Gabriel did not say the Ned for sacrifice and burnt offering stop. He said sacrifice and burnt offering stopped.

Hebrew said the blood of bull and goat never told away sin. Sacrifice and burnt offering never removed sin..

You have already been shown that.

For example, to make an end of sins relates to this:

1 John 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.

To make reconciliation for iniquity is something that only Jesus could do:

Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

2 Cor 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Hebrews 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

The most Holy was anointed long ago:

Acts 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

You are not allowing the New Testament to interpret the Old Testament prophecies for you and that's why you misinterpret them.

Isreal is still in sin, still reject her messiah.

Dan 9 is about the people of daniel, not anyone else.

dan 9 - 24:
“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,

christ died for the world. Not just for Daniels people and his holy city. Was was destroyed 40 years later as prophesied./

 

[Eternally Grateful]

This is blatantly false. He was introduced as the Messiah when He was baptized, as can be clearly seen here:

John 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world. 30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me. 31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. 32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him. 33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God. 35 Again the next day after John stood, and two of his disciples; 36 And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!

By calling Jesus "the Lamb of God" and "the Son of God" and saying "he was before me", John was declaring that Jesus was the Messiah.

Please show me th word messiah in that passage.

and please show me where the messiah would die for the sin of the people and remove their sins in the OT

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That was my point. This 7 years has no body nor substance. Not even a halfway point. At least not in Scripture.

"And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

The Prince to come confirms the Covenant. The same Prince as in verses 25 and 26.

When you used the huge point "The Coming King" just prior to the point of the week of the Cross, I did think that was your point.

Until you state who this king or prince to come is, I was not correcting you, just pointing out I thought you were talking about Jesus.

Obviously I already made my point in the last post, you quoted.

Just pointing out that the King James does not define this week as years or days. I have seen both days and years in several translations. I accept that Daniel 9:27 is referring to the days of the 7th Trumpet. I am assuming that the days of the 7th Trumpet is also a week. I compare that event to the week Israel marched around Jericho to declare a victory in claiming the Promised Land. Also the week of the Cross in which Jesus is recognized as King. The 7th Trumpet is the third week that changes the world once again, forever.

The prince is not in 25 and 26, Jesus did not confirm a 7 year covenant with anyone.

He purchased a new covenant for eternity with his blood.

again, the 7 years is precise/

the future prince of Rome confirms a covenant with many for 7 years.

in the middle of the week.. he breaks that covenant by placing an idol in the most holy place. Which cause sacrifice and burnt offering to cease

the end happens 3.5 years later as prophecies in many places. Including by Jesus himself in Matt 24

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Obviously, you don't think you did, but you did.

1. Natural Israel
2. Spiritual Israel
3. The Patriarch Israel.

Please stop lying. I made no mention of the Partiarch Israel.

Your view has a major error, which until now you haven't seen. In case you didn't know, I am performing a critique, pointing out the error of your view. I'm not saying, as you seem to imply, that you actually believe this.

You are pointing out nothing except that you are a liar.

Stop acting overly offended.

Stop acting like a pagan who lies and thinks nothing of it.

Deflection much?

I get it, you don't see the other Israel. Unfortunately, since you don't see it then you can't claim to understand the passage.

You are the one not seeing Spiritual Israel. There are only 2 Israels that Paul described in Romans 9:6-8. The Patriarch Israel is not one of them.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Please show me th word messiah in that passage.

That's like me asking you to show me the word rapture in 1 Thess 4:14-17. Who else could be "the Lamb of God" and "the Son of God" except for the Messiah?

and please show me where the messiah would die for the sin of the people and remove their sins in the OT

Wow. Is Judaism your religion? I'm really starting to wonder about you.

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have yet to meet one dispensationalist posting on this board. I am glad you two have defeated this invisible foe.

LOL. You are a dispensationalist whether you acknowledge it or not. And there are others on this forum like Eternally Grateful that are dispensationalists. You must not even know what a dispensationalist is.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

I have considered it, and there were Jews forced in concentration camps to abort their babies or hand them over to the German drug company Bayer for experimentation. There was forced cannibalism in some concentration camps. People were dying of starvation. But do I have to prove this to make a point? No I don't. Because if the poster really wanted the truth, they could look it up for themselves.

What do you think happens to 8 billion people when 2 Peter 3:10 happens?

They will be killed, of course (if it happens any time soon). Will only 8 people in the world survive it? Or whatever number it would be where the percentage of people surviving would be as low as what happened in the flood? Highly doubtful, right? But, do you think about things like that? Of course not.

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

Either they walk through the fire or are burned up. Since you have yet to be definitive, how would I know if I misrepresent your viewpoint if I don't even know it.

LOL. Why would you even attempt to represent my view when you admittedly "don't even know it"? LOL. You are a comedian.

You cannot even prove that fire destroys everything in Revelation 19. Should God be offended you are misrepresenting the point He made that birds will consume that flesh in Revelation 19, not fire? God was definitive:

He is offended that you can't tell the difference between symbolic and literal text.

"And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh."

Or is that too literal and earthly minded? Is the fire in 2 Peter 3:10 not literal, only symbolic of birds? Or is the whole scene in Revelation 19 just symbolic of fire?

The scene in Revelation 19 is symbolic of complete destruction. It doesn't refer to the literal method of destruction at all.

Or could it be that Revelation 19 and 2 Peter 3 are not even talking about the same moment in time?

No, that could not possibly be. You only think that because of your inability to discern the difference between symbolic and literal text.

 

[covenantee]

Please show me th word messiah in that passage.

Daniel 9:25 Hebrew-Aramaic

4899 [e]
mā·šî·aḥ
מָשִׁ֣יחַ
Messiah
Adj‑ms

"Definition: anointed"

Luke 4
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised

Acts 4
27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together

Acts 10
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

How is that working out for you when you use the OT to interpret Revelation 20?

LOL. Do you even think before you post? How do I use the OT to interpret Revelation 20?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

thats not how prophecy works. Gabriel did not say the Ned for sacrifice and burnt offering stop. He said sacrifice and burnt offering stopped.

Hebrew said the blood of bull and goat never told away sin. Sacrifice and burnt offering never removed sin..

I never said the animal sacrifices removed sin. But, God did require animal sacrifices and offerings to be performed. Once Christ made His sacrifice, God did not require them any longer since they only foreshadowed His sacrifice.

If you want to insist on reading the text as literally as possible without thinking about what it really means, that's your choice.

Isreal is still in sin, still reject her messiah.

Not all of them. The prophecy isn't about them some day not sinning anymore. That is ridiculous and completely unreasonable. Only Jesus could fulfill the six things listed in Daniel 9:24 and I showed how He did it. You just ignore that because you have chosen to be ignorant about New Testament scripture.

Dan 9 is about the people of daniel, not anyone else.

dan 9 - 24:
“Seventy weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,

christ died for the world. Not just for Daniels people and his holy city. Was was destroyed 40 years later as prophesied./

I didn't say otherwise. That Jesus died for the Gentiles as well doesn't take away from the fact that He died for the Jews. What more does He need to do for the Jews than that? Nothing. He said "it is finished" for a reason.

 

[CadyandZoe]

Please stop lying. I made no mention of the Partiarch Israel.

I didn't say you did. I said that your view requires three Israels not two.

You are pointing out nothing except that you are a liar.

You are deflecting.

Stop acting like a pagan who lies and thinks nothing of it.

Deflecting.

You are the one not seeing Spiritual Israel. There are only 2 Israels that Paul described in Romans 9:6-8. The Patriarch Israel is not one of them.

Yes, Paul mentions Israel twice, referring to

1) the patriarch Israel,
2) the nation bearing his name.

The interpretation you believe adds a third: "spiritual Israel", which Paul never had in mind.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That's like me asking you to show me the word rapture in 1 Thess 4:14-17. Who else could be "the Lamb of God" and "the Son of God" except for the Messiah?

You do not understand anything about Prophecy do you?

The people of Israel, who were living at the time of messiah, would need to know the OT prophecy concerning the messiah to know it was him.

So can you show it to me or not?

Wow. Is Judaism your religion? I'm really starting to wonder about you.

Isaiah 53:5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the Lord hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. 7 He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth. 8 He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.

who is He?

You and I know that it was jesus.

Could Israel know that was the messiah? Again show me the word messiah

 

[CadyandZoe]

The prince is not in 25 and 26, Jesus did not confirm a 7 year covenant with anyone.

What if Gabriel wasn't talking about a 7-year covenant? What if Gabriel was saying that it would take seven years to confirm the covenant?

It seems like either interpretation is plausible.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Daniel 9:25 Hebrew-Aramaic

4899 [e]
mā·šî·aḥ
מָשִׁ֣יחַ
Messiah
Adj‑ms

"Definition: anointed"

Luke 4
18 The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised

Acts 4
27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together

Acts 10
38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

You did not show me the word messiah in the passage.

Nice deflect though.

Show me the word messiah in the passage, and then also show in the OT where Messiah would be introduced to israel by being baptized in the wilderness

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I never said the animal sacrifices removed sin. But, God did require animal sacrifices and offerings to be performed. Once Christ made His sacrifice, God did not require them any longer since they only foreshadowed His sacrifice.

If you want to insist on reading the text as literally as possible without thinking about what it really means, that's your choice.

ok. Show me where Gabriel said the need for sacrifice and burnt offering would cease.

I just read the passage literally and took it literally. I do nto try to add things not inisunuated or noted. as some people do.

Not all of them. The prophecy isn't about them some day not sinning anymore. That is ridiculous and completely unreasonable. Only Jesus could fulfill the six things listed in Daniel 9:24 and I showed how He did it. You just ignore that because you have chosen to be ignorant about New Testament scripture.

Your wrong

the sin of Israel was their rejection of God. and their worshiping Idols and refusing to worship him

THAT is what they will stop.

If you would actually study the whole chapter you would see this

(it nevcer said they would stop all sin.. that was never the context)

I didn't say otherwise. That Jesus died for the Gentiles as well doesn't take away from the fact that He died for the Jews. What more does He need to do for the Jews than that? Nothing. He said "it is finished" for a reason.

For salvation, it is finished

For the promise made to Israel. It is forever and ongoing.

Your stuck on replacement theology. it is in error.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What if Gabriel wasn't talking about a 7-year covenant? What if Gabriel was saying that it would take seven years to confirm the covenant?

It seems like either interpretation is plausible.

Gabriel spoke of the 69 weeks. It ended with messiah the prince. and he died immediately after.

the next 7 years is the 1 week covenant. which he said the prince would CONFIRM FOR 1 week

there is no other mention of the last week or the 70th week in the passage.

so I disagree that either interpretation is plausable for both reasons

 

[CadyandZoe]

Gabriel spoke of the 69 weeks. It ended with messiah the prince. and he died immediately after.

the next 7 years is the 1 week covenant. which he said the prince would CONFIRM FOR 1 week

there is no other mention of the last week or the 70th week in the passage.

so I disagree that either interpretation is plausable for both reasons

Messiah is cut off in week 69?
(Sorry if you told me this before.)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Messiah is cut off in week 69?
(Sorry if you told me this before.)

No.

he was cut off AFTER the 69th week (in the hebrew, it means immediately after, or the next event following which is in close proximity)