A Popular, Modern View of Righteousness

[Axehead]

Let's examine another view of Righteousness, that we hear about today. Some take the view that one cannot be free from sin, just forgiven. In many places one sees the motto: "Christians aren't perfect just forgiven." The acceptance of imperfection and unrighteousness seems to be the norm for the church. What this motto really says to the world is, "I am a sinner just like you, but I'm forgiven and you are not." The emphasis is put on forgiveness instead of righteousness. Many have the attitude of a Christian minister who was in an adulterous relationship; when confronted he responded, "Every night before I go to sleep, I just ask the Lord to forgive me."

Is there more than forgiveness? Is there freedom from sin? Many respond to these questions by talking about the sin nature in the believer, saying one can never be free from sin because sin will always be in him until he dies. They say the righteousness of Christ in no way changes the carnal nature, neither does the carnal nature affect the divine nature. Here man finds himself in a schizophrenic dualism of confusion and failure. The emphasis is upon "saved IN sin" rather than "saved FROM sin". One finds himself living in a two story house with no connecting stairway. On one floor there can be no sin, while on the other floor there is nothing but sin.

In seeking a Biblical position let us consider the following; First, there IS actual cleansing from sin. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to CLEANSE US from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS" (1 John 1:9). So, here is the step BEYOND FORGIVENESS; there IS CLEANSING from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. The blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin (v 7). When one is cleansed, he is SET FREE. The cleansing comes through a process of repentance, as "we walk in the light as He is in the light" (vs 7).

Second, there is release from the corrupt nature, "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead IS FREED FROM SIN." Rom 6:6-7. Just as Jesus Christ died for the sin of the world, so sin must die in me. Are you committed to total freedom from sin? You ask, "Do I believe I can reach a point where I CANNOT sin?" No, but I believe one can reach a point where they ARE FREE NOT TO SIN.

Third, there is a baptism of the Holy Spirit that renews the human nature. "He saved us...by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5). The baptism of the Holy Spirit is an infusion of God's love, and invasion of God's Spirit, a penetration of truth and righteousness, and an emancipation from sin. Only the Holy Spirit can reach the depth of man's being and bring radical change. God promised this as part of the New Covenant. God promised those in the New Covenant:

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. Ezekiel 36:25-27

Christ came to make men righteous. This is more than a legal reckoning of faith; rather, righteousness is to be experienced as a work of the Holy Spirit. This is radical and immediate. The Holy Spirit will come as a fire to purge from all defilement, as a knife to circumcise the heart, and as a scribe to write God's laws on your heart. "Christ in you, the hope of glory", is the Holy Spirit in you bringing forth His righteousness (Colossians 1:27).

Axehead

 

[Episkopos]

Let's examine another view of Righteousness, that we hear about today. Some take the view that one cannot be free from sin, just forgiven. In many places one sees the motto: "Christians aren't perfect just forgiven." The acceptance of imperfection and unrighteousness seems to be the norm for the church. What this motto really says to the world is, "I am a sinner just like you, but I'm forgiven and you are not." The emphasis is put on forgiveness instead of righteousness. Many have the attitude of a Christian minister who was in an adulterous relationship; when confronted he responded, "Every night before I go to sleep, I just ask the Lord to forgive me."

Is there more than forgiveness? Is there freedom from sin? Many respond to these questions by talking about the sin nature in the believer, saying one can never be free from sin because sin will always be in him until he dies. They say the righteousness of Christ in no way changes the carnal nature, neither does the carnal nature affect the divine nature. Here man finds himself in a schizophrenic dualism of confusion and failure. The emphasis is upon "saved IN sin" rather than "saved FROM sin". One finds himself living in a two story house with no connecting stairway. On one floor there can be no sin, while on the other floor there is nothing but sin.

In seeking a Biblical position let us consider the following; First, there IS actual cleansing from sin. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to CLEANSE US from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS" (1 John 1:9). So, here is the step BEYOND FORGIVENESS; there IS CLEANSING from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. The blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin (v 7). When one is cleansed, he is SET FREE. The cleansing comes through a process of repentance, as "we walk in the light as He is in the light" (vs 7).

Second, there is release from the corrupt nature, "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead IS FREED FROM SIN." Rom 6:6-7. Just as Jesus Christ died for the sin of the world, so sin must die in me. Are you committed to total freedom from sin? You ask, "Do I believe I can reach a point where I CANNOT sin?" No, but I believe one can reach a point where they ARE FREE NOT TO SIN.

Third, there is a baptism of the Holy Spirit that renews the human nature. "He saved us...by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5). The baptism of the Holy Spirit is an infusion of God's love, and invasion of God's Spirit, a penetration of truth and righteousness, and an emancipation from sin. Only the Holy Spirit can reach the depth of man's being and bring radical change. God promised this as part of the New Covenant. God promised those in the New Covenant:

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. Ezekiel 36:25-27

Christ came to make men righteous. This is more than a legal reckoning of faith; rather, righteousness is to be experienced as a work of the Holy Spirit. This is radical and immediate. The Holy Spirit will come as a fire to purge from all defilement, as a knife to circumcise the heart, and as a scribe to write God's laws on your heart. "Christ in you, the hope of glory", is the Holy Spirit in you bringing forth His righteousness (Colossians 1:27).

Axehead

Preach it brother!!! :)

 

[seekandfind]

Let's examine another view of Righteousness, that we hear about today. Some take the view that one cannot be free from sin, just forgiven. In many places one sees the motto: "Christians aren't perfect just forgiven." The acceptance of imperfection and unrighteousness seems to be the norm for the church. What this motto really says to the world is, "I am a sinner just like you, but I'm forgiven and you are not." The emphasis is put on forgiveness instead of righteousness. Many have the attitude of a Christian minister who was in an adulterous relationship; when confronted he responded, "Every night before I go to sleep, I just ask the Lord to forgive me."

Is there more than forgiveness? Is there freedom from sin? Many respond to these questions by talking about the sin nature in the believer, saying one can never be free from sin because sin will always be in him until he dies. They say the righteousness of Christ in no way changes the carnal nature, neither does the carnal nature affect the divine nature. Here man finds himself in a schizophrenic dualism of confusion and failure. The emphasis is upon "saved IN sin" rather than "saved FROM sin". One finds himself living in a two story house with no connecting stairway. On one floor there can be no sin, while on the other floor there is nothing but sin.

In seeking a Biblical position let us consider the following; First, there IS actual cleansing from sin. "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to CLEANSE US from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS" (1 John 1:9). So, here is the step BEYOND FORGIVENESS; there IS CLEANSING from ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS. The blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin (v 7). When one is cleansed, he is SET FREE. The cleansing comes through a process of repentance, as "we walk in the light as He is in the light" (vs 7).

Second, there is release from the corrupt nature, "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead IS FREED FROM SIN." Rom 6:6-7. Just as Jesus Christ died for the sin of the world, so sin must die in me. Are you committed to total freedom from sin? You ask, "Do I believe I can reach a point where I CANNOT sin?" No, but I believe one can reach a point where they ARE FREE NOT TO SIN.

Third, there is a baptism of the Holy Spirit that renews the human nature. "He saved us...by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit" (Titus 3:5). The baptism of the Holy Spirit is an infusion of God's love, and invasion of God's Spirit, a penetration of truth and righteousness, and an emancipation from sin. Only the Holy Spirit can reach the depth of man's being and bring radical change. God promised this as part of the New Covenant. God promised those in the New Covenant:

Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you. A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them. Ezekiel 36:25-27

Christ came to make men righteous. This is more than a legal reckoning of faith; rather, righteousness is to be experienced as a work of the Holy Spirit. This is radical and immediate. The Holy Spirit will come as a fire to purge from all defilement, as a knife to circumcise the heart, and as a scribe to write God's laws on your heart. "Christ in you, the hope of glory", is the Holy Spirit in you bringing forth His righteousness (Colossians 1:27).

Axehead

Amen Axehead!

When we first believe in HIM and repent, our garments are made white. From then on we keep our garments. If we fall short we have an advocate, "Wash me with water and I shall be clean, cleanse me and I shall be whiter than snow."

Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Ephesians 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

All things have been put under HIS feet, and HE has overcome the world. If we are abiding in HIM we also overcome.

Rev 14:12: Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. (ESV)

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. (KJV)


"I believe one can reach a point where they ARE FREE NOT TO SIN."

Amen!!!

 

[Episkopos]

They say the righteousness of Christ in no way changes the carnal nature, neither does the carnal nature affect the divine nature. Here man finds himself in a schizophrenic dualism of confusion and failure. The emphasis is upon "saved IN sin" rather than "saved FROM sin". One finds himself living in a two story house with no connecting stairway. On one floor there can be no sin, while on the other floor there is nothing but sin.

Pride is a killer. Those who have never experienced victory in Christ will say..."there is no victory in Christ" and then attack those who testify they have. If they have not...then no one has!!!! How can anyone know more than them????Even the biblical testimony will not convince them.

 

[Rach1370]

Hmmm. Only one problem: it's not biblical. Am not going to get into it...witness the fruitless debates on other threads. But what you're preaching doesn't line up with what the bible teaches. Sorry.

 

[haz]

Hmmm. Only one problem: it's not biblical. Am not going to get into it...witness the fruitless debates on other threads. But what you're preaching doesn't line up with what the bible teaches. Sorry.

Hi Rach,

Interestingly, Epi, seekandfind and Axehead all judge righteousness by works of the law, claiming that the 10 commandments must be kept perfectly.

Epi admits his lawlessness (transgression of the law) and accepts it's consequences. Under his own doctrine, he is not abiding in Christ and faces death unless he should achieve perfect obedience of the 10 commandments constantly. It's an on-again-off-again abiding in Christ.

Seekandfind also seems to admit he/she trangresses the law they choose to remain under. Seekandfind claims after our intial repentance our garments are made white,and "From then on we keep our garments" (perfectly obeying the 10 commandments). BUT, their allowance for the advocate to help them should they fall short, shows that they do not keep the commandments perfectly.

I have asked Axehead if he/she keeps the 10 commandments perfectly but have not had any answer. I presume that like the others, Axehead likewise fails.

All three judge righteousness by perfect obedience to the 10 commandments. Yet they fail themselves, whilst condemning others if they do not follow their path of judging righteousness by works of the law.
Their doctrine denies Christ. It's not supported by scriptures, as you said.

"Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Rom 10:4.

 

[seekandfind]

Seekandfind also seems to admit he/she trangresses the law they choose to remain under. Seekandfind claims after our intial repentance our garments are made white,and "From then on we keep our garments" (perfectly obeying the 10 commandments). BUT, their allowance for the advocate to help them should they fall short, shows that they do not keep the commandments perfectly.

I have asked Axehead if he/she keeps the 10 commandments perfectly but have not had any answer. I presume that like the others, Axehead likewise fails.

All three judge righteousness by perfect obedience to the 10 commandments. Yet they fail themselves, whilst condemning others if they do not follow their path of judging righteousness by works of the law.
Their doctrine denies Christ. It's not supported by scriptures, as you said.

"Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Rom 10:4.

Well, I suppose if we all compromise and just take what we want to believe out of the scriptures, we could all be in agreement with you haz. Unfortunately for you, some of us will not compromise, especially based your ideas of what is true within the scriptures.

Jesus said that we should live on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, You say that we should live based on a few verses. I'll stick with what Jesus said. Every word, not just a choice few.

Everything in the original message is scriptural. If you bring accusations, bring proof with all of the scriptures.

All of it has a biblical basis, but I doubt that you will even read them, but I know some will.

John 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Ephesians 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

There is even a picture of this in the Old Testament:

Zechariah 3:3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
Zechariah 3:4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
Zechariah 3:5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by.
Zechariah 3:6 And the angel of the LORD protested unto Joshua, saying,
Zechariah 3:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.

I would suggest that you study out the great banquet in Luke 14.

 

[haz]

Well, I suppose if we all compromise and just take what we want to believe out of the scriptures, we could all be in agreement with you haz. Unfortunately for you, some of us will not compromise, especially based your ideas of what is true within the scriptures.

Jesus said that we should live on every word that proceeds from the mouth of God, You say that we should live based on a few verses. I'll stick with what Jesus said. Every word, not just a choice few.

Everything in the original message is scriptural. If you bring accusations, bring proof with all of the scriptures.

All of it has a biblical basis, but I doubt that you will even read them, but I know some will.

John 8:10 When Jesus had lifted up himself, and saw none but the woman, he said unto her, Woman, where are those thine accusers? hath no man condemned thee?
John 8:11 She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.
John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.
John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.
John 8:34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;
John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Ephesians 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
Ephesians 5:27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

There is even a picture of this in the Old Testament:

Zechariah 3:3 Now Joshua was clothed with filthy garments, and stood before the angel.
Zechariah 3:4 And he answered and spake unto those that stood before him, saying, Take away the filthy garments from him. And unto him he said, Behold, I have caused thine iniquity to pass from thee, and I will clothe thee with change of raiment.
Zechariah 3:5 And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by.
Zechariah 3:6 And the angel of the LORD protested unto Joshua, saying,
Zechariah 3:7 Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by.

I would suggest that you study out the great banquet in Luke 14.

Hi seekandfind,

Good scriptures, but you misunderstand them.

I'm curious, as you indicated that you fail to keep the 10 commandments perfectly, how you stand considering your criticisms of those of us under grace only?

For example, you quoted John 8:34 "Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin".

As you have not perfectly kept the 10 commandments since becoming a "Christian", John 8:34 says your a servant of sin, who does not abide in the house.
Also, 1John 3:6 says that such people "have not seen him, neither known him"
And 1John 3:8 says that "He that commits sin is of the devil"

As you say you are under the law (and sin is transgression of the law, 1John 3:4), where do you stand since you have not perfectly kept the 10 commandments?

 

[dragonfly]

Hi haz,

Interestingly, Epi, seekandfind and Axehead all judge righteousness by works of the law, claiming that the 10 commandments must be kept perfectly.

Please could you quote the part of Axehead's post to which you refer?

Many thanks.

 

[Episkopos]

Hi seekandfind,

Good scriptures, but you misunderstand them.

I'm curious, as you indicated that you fail to keep the 10 commandments perfectly, how you stand considering your criticisms of those of us under grace only?

For example, you quoted John 8:34 "Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin".

As you have not perfectly kept the 10 commandments since becoming a "Christian", John 8:34 says your a servant of sin, who does not abide in the house.
Also, 1John 3:6 says that such people "have not seen him, neither known him"
And 1John 3:8 says that "He that commits sin is of the devil"

As you say you are under the law (and sin is transgression of the law, 1John 3:4), where do you stand since you have not perfectly kept the 10 commandments?

You can't decide you are no longer subject to the law. This isn't a multiple choice salvation questionnaire. Of course the carnal man wants to be free of any laws...because he is lawless.

Here is a thought by renowned preacher A.W. Tozer....

the first obligation of the Christian Church is not to spread the gospel but to be spiritually worthy to spread it.

The first duty of a Christian is to the Lord. AS Jesus said..the blind cannot lead the blind.

Hi Rach,

Interestingly, Epi, seekandfind and Axehead all judge righteousness by works of the law, claiming that the 10 commandments must be kept perfectly.

Epi admits his lawlessness (transgression of the law) and accepts it's consequences. Under his own doctrine, he is not abiding in Christ and faces death unless he should achieve perfect obedience of the 10 commandments constantly. It's an on-again-off-again abiding in Christ.

Seekandfind also seems to admit he/she trangresses the law they choose to remain under. Seekandfind claims after our intial repentance our garments are made white,and "From then on we keep our garments" (perfectly obeying the 10 commandments). BUT, their allowance for the advocate to help them should they fall short, shows that they do not keep the commandments perfectly.

I have asked Axehead if he/she keeps the 10 commandments perfectly but have not had any answer. I presume that like the others, Axehead likewise fails.

All three judge righteousness by perfect obedience to the 10 commandments. Yet they fail themselves, whilst condemning others if they do not follow their path of judging righteousness by works of the law.
Their doctrine denies Christ. It's not supported by scriptures, as you said.

"Christ is the END of the law for righteousness to everyone that believes" Rom 10:4.

If you only understood what you were posting...

Christ is the end of the law as a MEANS for righteousness. Now we obey the law by abiding in Christ. A Christian is not someone who declares himself/herself saved by a rejection of the commandments of God. A true Christian seeks to abide in Christ who is our perfection.

 

[seekandfind]

Hi haz,



Please could you quote the part of Axehead's post to which you refer?

Many thanks.

Exactly dragonfly,

Some seem to reach for anything, even things that aren't there to try to try to discount the truth. It shouldn't, but it amazes me.

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Episkopos,

A true Christian seeks to abide in Christ who is our perfection.

Are you using 'perfection' in the commoner NT occurrence of it, meaning completion, or, do you mean perfect as in no fault, or both? (Col 2:10)

 

[Episkopos]

Hi Episkopos,



Are you using 'perfection' in the commoner NT occurrence of it, meaning completion, or, do you mean perfect as in no fault, or both? (Col 2:10)

It is both really. Of course an immature Christian will not be able to handle abiding in holiness for very long. He will be pinching himself saying...this can't be happening. But over time and many tears we learn to stop looking at ourselves and the world around us and learn to look only to the One who loved us ...so we learn to love Him. Then we are able to remain in Him. Jesus Christ IS perfect. No sin. Those who remain in Him have become the righteousness of God...in truth.

 

[seekandfind]

Hi seekandfind,

Good scriptures, but you misunderstand them.

I'm curious, as you indicated that you fail to keep the 10 commandments perfectly, how you stand considering your criticisms of those of us under grace only?

For example, you quoted John 8:34 "Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin".

As you have not perfectly kept the 10 commandments since becoming a "Christian", John 8:34 says your a servant of sin, who does not abide in the house.
Also, 1John 3:6 says that such people "have not seen him, neither known him"
And 1John 3:8 says that "He that commits sin is of the devil"

As you say you are under the law (and sin is transgression of the law, 1John 3:4), where do you stand since you have not perfectly kept the 10 commandments?

Haz, by reading your questions I can see that you haven't even read the original message as he goes into those things, and I doubt that you've studied it out yourself.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Sin is always associated with shame in the scriptures.

When we believe on Jesus and repent of sins that are past, HE covers us as you would see if you read the verses in my last message. Only then does our learning begin.

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Do we learn anything before that time? That is just the beginning, we then grow and mature in HIM.

Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

In Rev 3:5, what exactly to you think is being said in the above verse: “He that overcometh,”

What do you think that we are overcoming? The flesh? The world? Sin? or nothing?

 

[Episkopos]

Haz, by reading your questions I can see that you haven't even read the original message as he goes into those things, and I doubt that you've studied it out yourself.

1 John 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

Revelation 16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

Sin is always associated with shame in the scriptures.

When we believe on Jesus and repent of sins that are past, HE covers us as you would see if you read the verses in my last message. Only then does our learning begin.

Romans 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Do we learn anything before that time? That is just the beginning, we then grow and mature in HIM.

Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

In Rev 3:5, what exactly to you think is being said in the above verse: “He that overcometh,”

What do you think that we are overcoming? The flesh? The world? Sin? or nothing?

Amen!!! Good post! :)

 

[dragonfly]

Greetings Episkopos,

Those who remain in Him have become the righteousness of God...in truth.

I know you tend not to quote scripture, but I've found it is safer than trying to rephrase Paul's statements. Therefore I offer this quote from 1 Corinthians 1: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glories, let him glory in the Lord.

This is what you were saying about not looking at ourselves. Amen, brother. :)

 

[Episkopos]

Greetings Episkopos,



I know you tend not to quote scripture, but I've found it is safer than trying to rephrase Paul's statements. Therefore I offer this quote from 1 Corinthians 1: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence. 30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: 31 That, according as it is written, He that glories, let him glory in the Lord.

This is what you were saying about not looking at ourselves. Amen, brother. :)

I have found that a significant percentage of church people are in a hypnotic state of mind conditioning due to a manipulative use of scriptures. When someone truly understands the meaning of the scriptures they can put it properly in other words. When they are brainwashed...they cannot. They have learned to instantly agree when they see the chapter/verse listed. So I always try to approach this conditioning through a godly reasoning according to the truth and the meaning of scriptures. The truth is always pointing to Christ and the reality of His presence in a place where He is waiting for us to join Him in the Spirit. That place is called Zion. :)

The Lord be with you!!!

 

[dragonfly]

Hi Episkopos,

When someone truly understands the meaning of the scriptures they can put it properly in other words.

I have a loooong way to go, then! :lol:

The truth is always pointing to Christ and the reality of His presence in a place where He is waiting for us to join Him in the Spirit. That place is called Zion. :)

The Lord be with you!!!

Amen! And with you! (Back to scripture... :) )

Psalm 65:1 Praise waits for thee, O God, in Sion...'

Hebrews 12:22 - 24 But ye are come to mount Sion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn [ones], which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaks of better things than Abel's.



Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!

 

[Episkopos]

Hi Episkopos,



I have a loooong way to go, then! :lol:



Amen! And with you! (Back to scripture... :) )

Psalm 65:1 Praise waits for thee, O God, in Sion...'

Hebrews 12:22 - 24 But ye are come to mount Sion, and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn [ones], which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, and to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaks of better things than Abel's.



Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!

Amen! (with tears of joy)

 

[Axehead]

Hi Rach,

I have asked Axehead if he/she keeps the 10 commandments perfectly but have not had any answer. I presume that like the others, Axehead likewise fails.

Sorry, I missed this statement.

1 John 2:1-2
Chapter 2
1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

Axehead

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