...

[RayaJade]

Please share more about your view of the justice of God.
Tell us how justice works if everyone is saved in the end. Thanks.
(this is not a rebuttal, pretty sure we are in agreement)
Maybe I should launch a topic and invite you.

Hi, I believe that the justice of God involves correction. I do not believe that justice involves infinite punishment but that it has a purpose for the betterment of the individual. I believe that many will experience the righteous judgments of God which are part of process of the restoration of all to God in the end. I believe that we reap what we sow, that we experience the consequences for our actions/works but this leads to correction. I am still studying this with God's help. God bless.

 

[MatthewG]

Sure. Everyone goes to the heavenly realm but not everyone desires to dwell in the light.

 

[MatthewG]

Hi Harold,

if you wonder what it is I believe, I believe God allows people to choose for themselves. No, not everyone will.

 

[Jack]

I will not stop promoting Christian Universalism.

Yes you will.

Matt 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Rev 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Jack]

Again, I will not stop promoting Christian Universalism.

You certainly will!

Mk 16 He that believeth not shall be DAMNED!

 

[Jack]

Hi Jack,

Again, I will not stop promoting Christian Universalism. Same quotes

Matthew 25:41 - The Sheep and the Goats

Then He will say to those on His left, 'Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.

www.biblehub.com

eternal
αἰώνιον (aiōnion)
Strong's 166: From aion;

aion means age. aionion is an inflection of the word aion. aionion means pertaining to an age. therefore, aionion does not mean an unlimited duration, because this age is that of a limited duration

Revelation 20:10 - Satan Cast into the Lake of Fire

And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

www.biblehub.com

Again, we see the same aionion here
ever.
αἰώνων (aiōnōn)
Strong's 165: From the same as aei; properly, an age

so same explanation. age, limited, inflected as aionion, still limited.

God bless Jack

You will indeed!

Matthew 25:46 (ESV)
46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.

Same Greek word! NEVER ending!

 

[Michaelwestbrook828]

God loves us enough to not force us into an eternity spent in his presence. simply put the Gospel of salvation is for all who believe!!
that is truth>

John 3:36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.​

​

(link removed)​

 

[Jack]

Yesterday Aug 23 2023 my mother initiated conversation with me with her shouting as I calmly replied with love, as usual. Before, she wanted me to stop writing Bible verses, now she wants me to stop reading the Bible by myself. I ask her if I can still read the Bible at church and she tells me no, that I should leave Bible interpretation to those with high IQ in the church.



```1 Cor 3:20 KJB And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. ```



“Even your goal, you cannot make logic anymore. There’s no logic anymore there.” she tells me.



“It’s like where is your intelligence now? What happen to your intelligence? It’s taken from the Bible?!” my mother shouts at me, saying this is God’s punishment to me.



“You’re throwing words on the Bible to me and just using that as explanation. Where’s your logic? It’s gone. And that, if you don’t have logic, that’s the problem. You’re like a child who did not study at all. You’re just like a child who did not go to school. You have no intelligence, no logic.” my mother says



My mother tells me that I have a smaller brain and she has a bigger brain than me. She states that her IQ is higher than mine and that my IQ is lower, calling me delusional.



Thus, my mom tells me this story. When she was in the Philippines, there was a boy who stopped attending church. She visited his house and he just sitting there, verbally saying Bible verses. She felt goosebumps and this boy was later taken to the mental hospital.



My mother tells me this same goosebump feeling she felt while watching the fictional anime series Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood with my sister and I. She described it as a scene where they were in a cave and I think there was the bad guy. I tell her I don’t remember this scene and she says my memory is deteriorating.



She tells me that she feels these same goosebumps when she sees me. She states that she can see the future and that no one will like me, that I will end up in a mental hospital.



My mother tells me I am going down the drain, like to the darkness, that I will not be successful, that I will end up like, who she rudely calls the “bums on the street”. Those people on the street? They’re my friends, I talk with them about Christianity, and truly I tell you, I feel more kindness from them than from my own mother here! Why do I evangelize? Why do I tell people to believe in Christ to gain permanent life, that all will? It’s for the sake of their smiles. The genuine feeling of happiness I could sense when talking to these people about the Bible. I will not stop promoting Christian Universalism.

You should have minded your mother Harold.

 

[Jack]

Yesterday, Aug 23 2023. My mother takes my handwritten Bible verses. She removes the papers I hid under my socks, and in my pocket, and a pen too. But I had another pen and ran to a washroom to use the paper towel rolls to write my UR Bible verses on to spread in public.



I return home and my mother thinks I had stolen this pen, but I tell her I brought it with me from inside. Without evidence, both views exist in the realm of possibility.



```Exodus 20:15 JPS Tanakh 1917 Thou shalt not steal. ```



I learned recently that Exodus 20:15 commandment on “stealing” is specifically referring to “manstealing” aka kidnapping, and not necessarily the taking of private property. We see the spiritual forces of evil as the manstealer, as they have taken us away from a relationship with God due to sin.



In order for God to reverse the Exodus 20:15 commandment, all those who were kidnapped into sin, must be permanently freed, the slaves must be definitively liberated, which is only possible by faith alone in Jesus Christ.



For as long as Infernalism and Annihlationism is true, then these stolen people continue to be trapped, either in permanent torture or permanent death. Only through Universal Reconciliation in Christ can all of humanity be rescured from the Manstealer, the Kidnapper, Sin.

If you had heeded your Mother's advice, maybe you wouldn't be following the LGBTQ lunatics to Hell fire.

 

[Jack]

On Roblox today Aug 29 2023, I am called an “AI”. I’m seen as a bot online, alright? Yet, today as well my mother tells me that I am a robot who has no emotions no rationality in real life.



She says my behavior now and as a child are symptoms of autism. I lined up toys. I ran around in circles without getting dizzy. I did not speak for the first 3 years of my life, yet my sister spoke 3 months after she was born. My mother’s relative wanted to take me to the Philippines to cut off the bottom part of my tongue, luckily, my mom refused.



Thus, let me speak as a human here with my tongue still intact, let us examine the “tongue”



```James 3:6 ESV And the tongue is a fire, a world of unrighteousness. The tongue is set among our members, staining the whole body, setting on fire the entire course of life, and set on fire by hell. ```



The English Standard Version mistranslates γεέννης (geennēs) as Hell, which is the valley of Hinnom, Gehenna, of Jersualem.



is itself set on fire
φλογιζομένη (pgizomenē)
Strong's 5394: To inflame, fire with passion, set on fire, burn up. From px; to cause a blaze, i.e. Ignite.

This verse is the only instance of this word pgizó (φλογίζω) from NG5395.



To inflame means that flame was not burning before. To set on fire, means it was not on fire before. To cause a blaze means it had an action took place at a time to start the blaze. To ignite means that it was not ignited before.

In all those instances, the fire has been set at a specific date. Tell me, what is “eternal”? It is that which has neither beginning nor end. Thus, because the burning of Gehenna has a start, it literally cannot be eternal nor last forever!

There’s also “to burn up” meaning the burning has finished, the impurities, sin have been removed. Whose sin shall be removed? All who have faith alone in Jesus Christ, and thus all people will and all shall be permanently saved. An end to Gehenna, or how the ESV puts it, an end to hell.

All of our Bibles say you're wrong!

Mt 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Rev 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

If Every one goes to Heaven, look out who you maybe sitting next to ? Hitler, Stalin, or the Devil himself for sure.
I do not want to be with such people at all in fact, not only them but many more ! I think i will have to build a wall in heaven then ?

 

[Jack]

No such thing as "Christian Universalism", if the Bible is true.

 

[Reggie Belafonte]

No such thing as "Christian Universalism", if the Bible is true.

Are you saying that Christ Jesus is not the King over all ?
I thought that Christ Jesus was the Alpha and the Omega !

 

[Jack]

Are you saying that Christ Jesus is not the King over all ?

He certainly is!

I thought that Christ Jesus was the Alpha and the Omega !

Again, He certainly is that.

 

[Hobie]

Hi Hobie. WIll not all sinners come to repentance? Meaning metanoia, a change of mind, μετάνοια? That which convinces a person that they must believe in Christ in order to be made clean of their sins?

That furnace of fire you mention in Matthew 13:40-51 is like the fire a blacksmith uses. Do they burn their iron forever? Or rather, do they burn it for a specific time, and then hammer at it, in order to form it into a desired shape?

2 Peter 3:9 KJB The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

2 Peter 3:9 - The Day of the Lord

The Lord is not slow in keeping His promise as some understand slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish but everyone to come to repentance.

biblehub.com

And this fire that people are cast into in Matthew 7:19, I do not deny it's existence. Indeed, it burns people for a temporary amount of time, not endlessly. People are punished for the consequences of their sins, corrected, until they reach that repenant state, until theey are convinced to believe in Christ.

God bless my friend

Well lets take a look at what the Bible says will happen to the wicked...

Job 21:30 King James Version (KJV)
"30 That the wicked is reserved to the day of destruction? they shall be brought forth to the day of wrath."

Psalm 37:10 King James Version (KJV)
"10 For yet a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be."

Psalm 37:20 King James Version (KJV)
"20 But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away."

Psalm 37:28 King James Version (KJV)
"28 For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off."

Psalm 37:38 King James Version (KJV)
"38 But the transgressors shall be destroyed together: the end of the wicked shall be cut off."

Psalm 73:17-18 King James Version (KJV)
"17 Until I went into the sanctuary of God; then understood I their end.18 Surely thou didst set them in slippery places: thou castedst them down into destruction."

Psalm 92:7 King James Version (KJV)
"7 When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed for ever:"

Psalm 104:35 King James Version (KJV)
"35 Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more. Bless thou the Lord, O my soul. Praise ye the Lord."

Psalm 145:20 King James Version (KJV)
"20 The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy."

Proverbs 2:22 King James Version (KJV)
"22 But the wicked shall be cut off from the earth, and the transgressors shall be rooted out of it."

Nahum 1:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
"9 What do ye imagine against the Lord? he will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time.10 For while they be folden together as thorns, and while they are drunken as drunkards, they shall be devoured as stubble fully dry."

Malachi 4:1King James Version (KJV)
"4 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch."

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
"8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;"

2 Peter 2:6 King James Version (KJV)
"6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;"

2 Peter 2:9-12 King James Version (KJV)
9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:10 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.11 Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.12 But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

2 Peter 3:7 King James Version (KJV)
"7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

Revelation 20:9 King James Version (KJV)
"9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them."

Revelation 21:8 King James Version (KJV)
"8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death."

Now you can see what Peter was talking about...

2 Peter 3:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
"9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. "

 

[BlessedPeace]

The soul returns to God who gave it.

 

[Jack]

Mt 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Rev 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Yep, still there.

And, same Greek word, NEVER ending:

Matthew 25
46 "These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

John 3:16 (NASB)
16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.

 

[Jack]

My mother tells me that when she lived in the Philippines she would go to the dirty bathroom with candle and pail at night. Her downstairs would get flooded with dirty water.



I rebuke the evil infernalistic Iglesia Ni Cristo, which she was a former member of, for demanding so much money from those who are already trapped so deeply in poverty! What could they afford? Peanut butter bought per scoop; she tells me.



My mother says she would be scared of the sound of someone walking. It seems these noises may trigger traumatic memories because of all the rats that would crawl around the floor of her house.



1 Peter 5:7 ISV Throw all your worry on him, because he cares for you.



So, whenever my mother abuses my sister and I, whenever she tries to stop me from spreading my Christian Universalist Bible verses, that all shall have faith alone in Christ to gain permanent life, I see her throwing, projecting, her worries on to me. I forgive her, and still see her as a dear friend, so I will gladly take the role of a suffering sponge. How much more, will Jesus absorb the suffering, the trauma, of the whole world? Because he cares for all of us.

No such thing as "Christian Universalism" in the Bible. Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell, and no doubt lots of 'Christian Universalists'.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Good point. All souls shall eventually be reconciled with God, as He is the origin of life. This reconciliation, only possible by belief in Jesus Christ, the only way to Heaven

Genesis 12:3 All peoples on earth will be blessed through Abraham.

That's a good point. The passage I shared is found in the Old testament. There too is the passage that tells us about Jesus as savior.

For me, when our soul comes from God, as does our flesh of course because everything made is created by and through God, it is a hard thing to reconcile that all knowing Father would send part of himself that he gave humanity, our soul, to burn for all eternity.

As punishment for our being exactly as made by God.

A bit of topic. I got home after work moments ago and turned the TV on. There was a news blurb talking about a government issue.

And right behind that was the show, Unexplained Mysteries. They were talking about the construction of the Hoover Dam.
The guests were too narcissistic for me, so I turned.
And then this thought arose.

One day, not in my lifetime, we will have to evolve as a species outside and away from the controls we let ourselves be contained by.

All our life is controlled by something but ourselves. Our freedom sense is arrived at by how well we comply, concede, consent, to those controls and the rewards for obedience.

And yet those controls are imperfect. Yet purport to bring civilization, law and order, to bear.

Even religion, holy books, are about control.

Obey, or burn forever. Obey and gain rewards after life.


And it is all because we are to believe we can't trust ourselves.

 

[Jack]

That's a good point. The passage I shared is found in the Old testament. There too is the passage that tells us about Jesus as savior.

For me, when our soul comes from God, as does our flesh of course because everything made is created by and through God, it is a hard thing to reconcile that all knowing Father would send part of himself that he gave humanity, our soul, to burn for all eternity.

As punishment for our being exactly as made by God.

A bit of topic. I got home after work moments ago and turned the TV on. There was a news blurb talking about a government issue.

And right behind that was the show, Unexplained Mysteries. They were talking about the construction of the Hoover Dam.
The guests were too narcissistic for me, so I turned.
And then this thought arose.

One day, not in my lifetime, we will have to evolve as a species outside and away from the controls we let ourselves be contained by.

All our life is controlled by something but ourselves. Our freedom sense is arrived at by how well we comply, concede, consent, to those controls and the rewards for obedience.

And yet those controls are imperfect. Yet purport to bring civilization, law and order, to bear.

Even religion, holy books, are about control.

Obey, or burn forever. Obey and gain rewards after life.


And it is all because we are to believe we can't trust ourselves.

You seem to have forgot what Jesus said.

Mt 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Rev 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.