...

[ButterflyJones]

No, those are people who REJECTED God.
Especially Lot's Wife.
She saw God rain down Brimstone and still did not obey.
Free Will, not predestined!
She was warned, could have been Saved, but chose to disobeyed!

Maybe you should search the scriptures and find out who those people were.

 

[GodisSpirit]

Typing this while my father drives in the dark mother, sister, aunt, myself right past deer close to road. Worst case scenario we'd all be dead in a car crash if deer was a couple feet to right.



Job 34:20 CSB They die suddenly in the middle of the night; people shudder, then pass away. Even the mighty are removed without effort.



All it takes is a mere instance to die. That's why I was spreading the good news of Christian Universalism with my handwritten Bible verse tracts while shirtless at Gimli beach with them today Aug 6 2023. It was an Icelandic Festival, showing the vikings, who had belief in the Norse mythological concept of Hel, the underworld, where people go after they die, ruled by the false goddess Hel.

Hel with 1 L

radical-reaction.com

Later, mainstream Christianity adopted this word "hell" into many Bible mistranslations: NIV, KJB, ESV, (none in YLT, CLV, NAB, etc.)



The true underworld, the realm of the dead, is referred to as Sheol שְׁאוֹל in Hebrew OT Psalm 16:10 and Hades ᾍδης, ου, ὁ in Greek NT Acts 2:27. What makes this not a myth is because the true LORD God rules over the unseen world. Psalm 86:13 proves He delivers souls out of this abode of departed spirits. Thus, post-mortem salvation is possible. Yes, even atheists who die suddenly in car crashes will still eventually believe in Christ and be saved! Unlike what the delusiononal false tracts of infernalist Jack Chick say, all people will believe in Christ and be saved!

Believing in Christ AFTER you have been Judged is not going to change anything.
The New Testament says the DEMONS believe in Jesus, and they are going to burn for all Eternity!
They were officially Booted out of Heaven, so they can Never Return!
But, they even admit they Believe in Jesus!
And it is Eternal Suffering for them, FOREVER!!!

 

[Patrick1966]

Believing in Christ AFTER you have been Judged is not going to change anything.

Verse please.

 

[Patrick1966]

And it is Eternal Suffering for them, FOREVER!!!

Verse please.

 

[Jack]

Revelation 21:4 ESV He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain anymore, for the former things have passed away.”

Clearly referring to those in God's eternal Kingdom, not Satan's children in Hell.

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Revelation 20:10
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

 

[Jack]

There’s also the Greek myth of hell ruled by the false underworld god “Hades”. Some people I spoke to tried to falsely claim that Christianity was “mythological” because it also used the word “Hades”, specifically, ᾍδης, ου, ὁ Strong’s Greek 86.



My rebuttal is that the Biblical Hades meaning “realm of the dead” originates from Sheol in Hebrew Psalm 16:10, which preceded literally all of Greek culture! Both simply mean “realm of the dead”, the Greeks merely attached one of their many mythological gods to the concept, like the Hellenistic false god Aion ( Greek: Αἰών), the term related to ages, originally referenced in Hebrew as עוֹלָם Strong’s Hebrew 5769 olam, both do not mean “forever”. Easy way to prove this is with:



```Psalm 106:48 NASB “Blessed be the LORD, the God of Israel, From everlasting to everlasting. And all the people shall say, “Amen.” Praise the LORD!” ```



The olam inflection הָ֤עוֹלָ֨ם ׀ (hā·‘ō·w·lām) is used here twice for each “everlasting”. Forever is infinite. It’s impossible for two infinite objects to take the same space! If a person is stuck in the first “forever” it’s impossible for them to move on to this second “forever”, yet this verse clearly shows a movement from haowlam to haowlam.



But let’s try this translation I made:



```Psalm 106:48 “Blessed be the LORD, the God of Israel, From age to age. And all the people shall say, “Amen.” Praise the LORD!” ```



So like generation to generation, the LORD is still blessed. Both the older and younger generations will praise the LORD! This makes so much more sense. All the people of all the generations of the Earth shall believe in the LORD, Jesus Christ, and thus be saved. Based on this evidence, it’s more likely that the Greeks just borrowed words from the Bible and added different meanings to it… just like many modern day English Bible translators!

Hell will be filled with people who don't believe in Hell!

 

[Jack]

Hell? You mean the one from Norse Mythology?

No, I mean from Jesus of the Christian Bible. You should read it some time.

Mark 9:47-48 (NKJV)
47 And if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye, rather than having two eyes, to be cast into hell fire-- 48 where 'Their worm does not die, And the fire is not quenched.'

There's Sheol/Hades/Gehenna/Tartarus but.... I don't see any "hell" here in the Hebrew/Greek biblical scriptures my friend Jack

Oh, another self professed Greek and Hebrew expert! Maybe you need to concentrate on English first.

Matthew 5:22 (NKJV)
22 Whoever says, 'You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

lol but assuming you refer to the Lake of Fire, we see that being in the lake of fire is a state of being "cast out" Yet the Bible clearly tells us that
Lamentations 3:31 For the Lord will not cast us off forever.

Revelation 20:10 (NKJV)
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Thus all shall believe in the Lord Christ and all shall be saved. God bless

You should read the Bible some time. It can save you from Hell fire.

Galatians 5
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality,
20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions,
21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

 

[Johann]

1 Corinthians 15:22 "In Christ shall all be made alive"

No longer will there be any death. No more suffering, for anyone. Everyone will have happiness in Heaven be believing in Christ! God is not a liar, therefore, this will come true!




Luke 19:10: "For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost."

Everyone in the world is lost, for we have all sinned against God. But God specifically save Jesus Christ to save all of us who are lost, which is the whole world.




Luke 15:4: "What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it?"

This is absolute assurance that God will save everyone. Even if one person is viewed by the world as extremely evil, God does not discriminate. We have all sinned and therefore God sees us all as sinners. Thus, God will save everyone.

This is what I would call twisting and perverting Scriptures.
J.

 

[Johann]

Hell? You mean the one from Norse Mythology? There's Sheol/Hades/Gehenna/Tartarus but.... I don't see any "hell" here in the Hebrew/Greek biblical scriptures my friend Jack

lol but assuming you refer to the Lake of Fire, we see that being in the lake of fire is a state of being "cast out" Yet the Bible clearly tells us that
Lamentations 3:31 For the Lord will not cast us off forever.

Thus all shall believe in the Lord Christ and all shall be saved. God bless

Lam 3:31?

"He causes grief" This VERB (BDB 387, KB 385) is used several times in Lamentations (and only two other places, Job 19:2; Isa. 51:23).

Lam. 1:4 ‒ Jerusalem is grieved because no one comes on feast days (Niphal PARTICIPLE)
Lam. 1:5 ‒ YHWH Himself has caused Judah's grief (Hiphil PERFECT)
Lam. 1:12 ‒ same as #2
Lam. 3:22 ‒ same as #2
Lam. 3:33 ‒ YHWH does not grieve the sons of men from His heart (Piel IMPERFECT with waw)
YHWH, Israel's creator, parent, shepherd, and defender, has now become her adversary (i.e., reversal of Holy War!). This was not only shocking but devastating to the worldview of the descendants of Abraham and YHWH's promises to David (cf. 2 Samuel 7; 1 Chronicles 17).

Thank God for Lam. 3:32b-c! YHWH's judgment is time sensitive. It does not last forever (cf. Ps. 103:8-14; 130:5-8).



3:33 God's judgment is the direct result of the rejection of His love. Judgment is designed to cause fallen mankind to repent and seek God. It is one aspect of parental discipline (cf Heb. 12:5-11). It is for our benefit, not just an outburst of emotional release on God's part (cf. Ezek. 18:23,32; 2 Pet. 3:9). It is purposeful and always in response to destructive rebellion.

This is such an important theological verse. It speaks directly to the merciful character of God (cf. Lam. 3:32). The context from Lam. 3:21-25,31 is positive, so it is difficult to see how Lam. 3:34-38 seems to be negative. Robert Gordis, in his commentary, pp. 181-183, suggests that Lam. 3:34-38 is all parallel, which shows the things, "the Most High" will not do.

to crush prisoners
to pervert justice
to do harm to a good man
He bases #3 on an emendation by Ehrlich. See my following notes on another option for interpreting Lam. 3:37-38.

3:33-36 These verses describe

some of the sinful things that humans do to fellow humans (NJB, JPSOA)
Lam. 3:34 ‒ violence, war, slavery
Lam. 3:35 ‒ deprive justice (cf. Exod. 23:6,8; Deut. 16:19; 24:17; 27:19; Ps. 140:12; Amos 2:7)
Lam. 3:36 ‒ deprive legal process (i.e., bribery, partiality), cf. Jer. 22:3
YHWH knows when His people are hurting and their covenant rights denied or violated (TEV)
All three (a, b, c) are INFINITIVES.

J.

 

[Jack]

1 Corinthians 15:22 "In Christ shall all be made alive"

No longer will there be any death. No more suffering, for anyone. Everyone will have happiness in Heaven be believing in Christ! God is not a liar, therefore, this will come true!

Luke 19:10: "For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost."

Everyone in the world is lost, for we have all sinned against God. But God specifically save Jesus Christ to save all of us who are lost, which is the whole world.

Luke 15:4: "What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it?"

This is absolute assurance that God will save everyone. Even if one person is viewed by the world as extremely evil, God does not discriminate. We have all sinned and therefore God sees us all as sinners. Thus, God will save everyone.

Really BAD news for LGBTQ's

1 Corinthians 6:9-10 (NKJV)
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites,
10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God.

I think Harold is LGBTQ.

 

[Johann]

I think Harold is LGBTQ.

This is a serious accusation-online-do you have any verifiable proof of your statement?
J.

 

[Jack]

This is a serious accusation-online-do you have any verifiable proof of your statement?
J.

"I am LGBTQ+ affirming and support them..."

Post 508

...

I'd say that the bible contains an extremely limited volume of God's expressed thoughts given to humans, most of these which were never written down and even less made the cut, therefore were not included. Others can stay within this limited source but as for me, I've enjoyed the growing...

www.christianityboard.com

 

[Johann]

"I am LGBTQ+ affirming and support them..."

Post 508

...

I'd say that the bible contains an extremely limited volume of God's expressed thoughts given to humans, most of these which were never written down and even less made the cut, therefore were not included. Others can stay within this limited source but as for me, I've enjoyed the growing...

www.christianityboard.com

Thanks-so this is being allowed-online-on Christian Forums?

 

[Jack]

Thanks-so this is being allowed-online-on Christian Forums?

No surprise. Some here believe that everyone will be saved, even Satan! Satan's ministers are BUSY!!! I doubt if most Christians even know this is in the Bible.

2 Corinthians 11
14 Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness,

 

[Johann]

No surprise. Some here believe that everyone will be saved, even Satan!

I was away for a while-and this topic should be banned-Universalism-and the banned topic-The Triune Godhead linked indissolubly with the death and resurrection of our Lord Christ Jesus-should be reconsidered and opened-and remain opened.

But I suspect there will be consequences for me insisting the Triune Godhead be reopened.
Cognate with Theos , there are three other words to be noted :
1. Theotes , rendered "Deity", and used of Christ. Occurs only in Col_2:9, and has relation to the Godhead personally ; while

2. Theiotes , rendered "Deity" also, is Deity in the abstract . Occurs only in Rom_1:20.

3. Theios , rendered "Divine", and is used of Christ. Occurs only in 2Pe_1:3; 2Pe_1:4; and, with the Article, in Act_17:29, where it is rendered "Godhead". Gr. = that which [is] Divine.


II. I AM.
Used by Christ of Himself, in Joh_8:58. See note on Exo_3:14.

Shalom Achi.
J.

 

[Jack]

I kind of like opposition to our Bible. It makes us STUDY God's Word. We might pull some 'Christians' out of the fire.

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

 

[Jack]

Why would infernalists want people to burn?

Why would you want to make false accusations?

That's why Strong's Concordance uses the term "trials". They also use "eternal fire", which more accrutally should be

עוֹלָֽם׃ olam fire, directly connected to punishment of αἰώνιον aionion fire.

You're saying all of our Bibles are wrong and you're right. How are you qualified to do that?

Therefore, the only reason infernalist would have to want people to burn in the LoF would be for punishment. For the betterment of those who burn. This leads to the natural conclusion of God needing to have each burning person reach a better state. Without this, there is literally no correction.

You're about as wrong as you could be.

Rev 20
10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

What is this better state? It is where one is a believer in Christ.

This furnace of affliction is like brushing your teeth. How long will the toothpaste, the toothbrush, be in your mouth, for how many aions, olams? Until all the dirt, the sins, are removed, only possible by faith alone in Christ. Therefore, as God's fire is all-consumming, all must become believers in Christ.

Should we believe you or Jesus?

Matthew 25
41 Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life."

Same Greek word.

 

[Jack]

So Jack, you are correct in saying that they are the same Greek word. However, the definition tells us that it cannot mean endless but rather that which has an end

Here's a good resource on this topic

Aion and Aionios: Excerpt from "Christ Triumphant"

An excerpt from Thomas Allin's "Christ Triumphant" on the Greek words Aion and Aionios.

www.tentmaker.org

quote: "for aion means "an age," a limited period, whether long or short,"

You just shot down eternal life.

 

[Jack]

Hi Jack,

This argument can essentially apply to any sort of concept that you personally interpret as belonging to Satan and is not an argument towards Christian Universalism specifically. A Chrisitan Universalist could essentially use that exact same verse in regards to ECT and it would be the same, so it's essentially a non-statement. God bless!

The difference is that the Bible says you're wrong. And you're not a Greek expert so stop trying to rewrite our Bible.

 

[Hobie]

Hi everyone. I hope this is the right place to post about it! I imagine talking about this belief can be controversial, so I have put it under the Unorthodox Doctrine Forum. Please let me know if this is the appropriate place to discuss this or if this is allowed to be discussed. Thank you kindly.

Anyways, let me introduce myself, since this is my first post here. Hi, my name is Harold Samson. On other forums I got by the names Harold Samsong, HSong, or just simply Song.

My beliefs that are relevant to this discussion are as follows:
-> Everyone goes to Heaven.
-> Specifically, everyone will be saved through Jesus Christ.
-> Salvation is through faith alone in Jesus Christ, not of works.
-> Once saved, always saved. You cannot lose your salvation.
and other basic tenants

If you need any more clarification, I will be more than happy to provide.

Now, here's the part where I provide Bible verses to support this position.

1 Timothy 4:10 Jesus Christ, the savior of all men, especially those who believe.​

Some believers may wonder what the point of believing is if God will save everyone. But, the way I see it, believing in Jesus Christ is necessary for salvation, meaning that everyone will eventually believe that God is Jesus Christ. So for us believers, we believe in God in advance, having learned the truth out of grace, and doing good because of our love for Christ!

1 John 3:5: "You know that He [Jesus] appeared to take away sins, and in Him there is no sin."

There is no sin in God, God’s existence cannot allow sin. Therefore, God will go to each person in the world and use Jesus Christ as the cover for those sins, allowing everyone to be saved through Him.

Genesis 12:3 In you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.

Everyone will receive God’s blessing of salvation! All families of the Earth means everyone, as everyone comes from the original family, are original descendants, of Adam and Eve.

Psalm NIV 118:1 Give thanks to the Lord, for He is good; His love endures forever.

God’s love for all the people on Earth will never end, all will be saved.

1 Corinthians 15:55: "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?"

God will not let death win! In the coming age, there will be no more death, no more suffering, for anyone. Because God will save everyone!

I will leave it at those 5 for now, though I have plenty more than I can reference.

If you agree or disagree with these beliefs, then feel free to let me know why. I'm always curious and interested to know your reasons. I encourage an open discussion on all fronts.

Thank you all for reading this and I hope everyone has a wonderful day! :)

I think Christ is clear what will happen to the unrepented sinners...

Matthew 3:10
And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Matthew 5:22
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Matthew 7:19
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

Matthew 13:40-51
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;

42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

44 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto treasure hid in a field; the which when a man hath found, he hideth, and for joy thereof goeth and selleth all that he hath, and buyeth that field.

45 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a merchant man, seeking goodly pearls:

46 Who, when he had found one pearl of great price, went and sold all that he had, and bought it.

47 Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net, that was cast into the sea, and gathered of every kind:

48 Which, when it was full, they drew to shore, and sat down, and gathered the good into vessels, but cast the bad away.

49 So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

50 And shall cast them into the furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

51 Jesus saith unto them, Have ye understood all these things? They say unto him, Yea, Lord.