A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses

[Jack]

If the creatures of heaven sing to Jesus this:

Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

...is it not true that they do not consider Jesus as their God?

Why on earth are so many people confused?

And if you didn't evade so many Scriptures you would know that God called His Son "God"! Heb 1!

Did I mention that only God and Jesus are called 'the first and the last'. NOBODY else. They are the same being.

 

[ElieG12]

I wasn't talking to you, so don't worry, be happy.

At the end, you will respond for your stubbornness to the real Jesus ... like everyone else:

Matt. 7:21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

John 4:23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him.

 

[Wrangler]

Hebrews 1
8 But to the Son He says: "Your throne, O God, is forever and ever;

O’God means OF God, not that the Son is God.

 

[Jack]

I wasn't talking to you, so don't worry, be happy.

At the end, you will respond for your stubbornness to the real Jesus ... like everyone else:

Matt. 7:21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will. 22 Many will say to me in that day: ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them: ‘I never knew you! Get away from me, you workers of lawlessness!’

Did I mention that ONLY God and Jesus are called "Mighty God"? NOBODY else. They are the same being.

 

[Wrangler]

You're comparing Jesus to false gods. Pity you!

No. There are real lowercase gods in Scripture. Review Jesus’ defense of calling himself the son of God by invoking Ps 82.

 

[Jack]

O’God means OF God, not that the Son is God.

Well I just checked 32 English Bibles and they all say you're wrong.

 

[Jack]

No. There are real lowercase gods in Scripture. Review Jesus’ defense of calling himself the son of God by invoking Ps 82.

Real gods? lol

And you don't even believe that Jesus is the Savior.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Jesus ascended bodily from the Mount of Olives into heaven. He will return in like manner. Bodily, out of heaven, to the earth.

Is that what it says? Do you really think that the resurrected Jesus was raised in the body he sacrificed? What an Indian giver! To take back that body would have made his sacrifice null and void.

Jesus “appeared” to his disciples after his resurrection but not always in the same body. He had been their constant constant companion for three and a half years, but was not present always with them after his resurrection. If he was in a physical body, why did he not stay with them? There is no record of where he stayed or with whom. But if he was in spirit form, there was no need to stay with anyone. He had no physical form, so he had no physical needs. Angels materialised human bodies when they needed to, so why not the resurrected Jesus?

Peter says clearly that “Christ died in the flesh” but was “made alive in the spirit.” (1 Peter 3:18) Or if you prefer the antiquated KJV he was “quickened by the spirit”......what does that even mean in today’s English? We don’t have to guess because Strongs tells us that the word “zōopoieō” (quickened) in Greek means.....

1. to produce alive, begat or bear living young
2. to cause to live, make alive, give life
   1. by spiritual power to arouse and invigorate
   2. to restore to life....

Jesus was “made alive”, but the body he sacrificed was taken away since it was offered to God and the tomb was empty. This is in fulfillment of Psalm 16:10. (Acts 13:34-37)

When Jesus appeared to his disciples on one occasion he simply vanished before their eyes, as angels in the past appeared and disappeared when bringing information to God’s servants on earth. (Luke 23:25-35)
Jesus remained in spirit form for 40 days, only appearing and disappearing in order to strengthen his disciples before his return to heaven.

The angels said he would return in the same manner.....as he rose, a cloud hid him from their view. A physical body cannot exist outside of earth’s atmosphere. The earth was made for mortals, with everything provided to keep living indefinitely.....food, water, and oxygen. All living souls need these things to survive.

Anyway, we have the testimony of the Jews that they understood Jesus,

John 10:33 KJV
The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

I showed you the Greek and the definite article is missing there. That should read “makest thyself a god” because it is just “theos”, not “ho theos”.....meaning a claim of divine authority. The Pharisees saw themselves as God’s appointed leaders, but Jesus did not have a good word to say about them. (Matt 15:7-9) This engendered a murderous hatred in them and they wanted him dead.

It's not blasphemy to call yourself a judge, or a despot. The blasphemy is calling yourself God.

Apparently it was classed as blasphemy to call yourself God’s son.....claiming that God was your father.
Jesus never once said he was God, because Yahweh is his God too. (John 20:17)

What really set them off was when He said that He exists now before Abraham existed then, showing His eternal existance. Present existance prior to someone's historical existance. A real time bender! Only an eternal being could say that in truth.

Yes, the pre-human Jesus was with his Father from the day of his creation. As John 1:1 says.....”In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was WITH GOD.” How can he be with someone and at the same time BE that someone? And what “beginning” is this? “The beginning of God’s creation”. (Rev 3:14)
The son has not eternally existed, but was God’s “firstborn” son......God had many other sons, but none were created directly by the Father....only his “firstborn” had that privilege.

Never mind, I have no taste anymore for this kind of conversation. You needn't reply to my posts, I'll not be replying to yours.

That is entirely up to you. I can let the readers here decide who is telling the truth according to the Bible, rather than altered church doctrine introduced centuries after Jesus death. None of the first Christians believed what Christendom offers as gospel truth....and that is a fact. Christendom is a mirror image of first century Judaism.....with false assumptions and twisted scripture designed to take people away from God by misrepresenting him.

We will all see whom Jesus rejects, and why.....very soon I believe. (Matt 7:21-23)

 

[Wrangler]

Angels materialised human bodies when they needed to, so why not the resurrected Jesus?

The basic reason is to not confuse forms with inherent nature. Angels are heavenly beings, which don’t have bodies.

Jesus is a man. Man has a physical body.

Another level of this inherent nature is what it means to be resurrected. ‘Re’ is your clue that it is something that is again. Jesus spoke against ghosts.

So, where does that leave us.

 

[marks]

Real gods? lol

And you don't even believe that Jesus is the Savior.

Isaiah 44:6 KJV
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

I think it's safe to say, while Paul wrote, there are gods many and lords many, he was not intending to contradict Isaiah's declaration from God, that He is in fact the only God, and beside Him there is none other.

And therefore this "lords many and gods many" is not speaking of "many true Gods", that would be absurd. There is one True God.

I've been seeing some posts that put an emphasis on the lack of an article,


They say, this should be considered indefinite, "a god", because there isn't an article, the God.


There came a man sent from a god . . . ?


Become children of a god . . . ?


begotten out of a god . . . ?


No one has seen a god at any time . . . ?

People need to understand that the Koine Greek article is not like the English article, and does not follow the same rules.

Much love!

 

[Jack]

Isaiah 44:6 KJV
Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

I think it's safe to say, while Paul wrote, there are gods many and lords many, he was not intending to contradict Isaiah's declaration from God, that He is in fact the only God, and beside Him there is none other.

And therefore this "lords many and gods many" is not speaking of "many true Gods", that would be absurd. There is one True God.

I've been seeing some posts that put an emphasis on the lack of an article,

View attachment 36446
They say, this should be considered indefinite, "a god", because there isn't an article, the God.

View attachment 36447
There came a man sent from a god . . . ?

View attachment 36448
Become children of a god . . . ?

View attachment 36450
begotten out of a god . . . ?

View attachment 36451
No one has seen a god at any time . . . ?

People need to understand that the Koine Greek article is not like the English article, and does not follow the same rules.

Much love!

And Satan's children want to convince us that Jesus is just a god.

 

[ElieG12]

IMHO, what Satan really wants is to divert attention from the true God whom Jesus worships.

John 4:23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.” 25 The woman said to him: “I know that Mes·siʹah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one comes, he will declare all things to us openly.”

If people don't know who that God is, then there is no way for Jesus to support those people.

John 15:20 Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have observed my word, they will also observe yours. 21 But they will do all these things against you on account of my name, because they do not know the One who sent me.

... 6:44 No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day. (...) 65 He went on to say: “This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

 

[Jack]

IMHO, what Satan really wants is to divert attention from the true God whom Jesus worships.

Whom God said to worship, Jesus!

John 4:23 Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshippers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for indeed, the Father is looking for ones like these to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit, and those worshipping him must worship with spirit and truth.” 25 The woman said to him: “I know that Mes·siʹah is coming, who is called Christ. Whenever that one comes, he will declare all things to us openly.”

If people don't know who that God is, then there is no way for Jesus to support those people.

John 15:20 Keep in mind the word I said to you: A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have observed my word, they will also observe yours. 21 But they will do all these things against you on account of my name, because they do not know the One who sent me.

... 6:44 No man can come to me unless the Father, who sent me, draws him, and I will resurrect him on the last day. (...) 65 He went on to say: “This is why I have said to you, no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”

Michael is your savior. Jesus is the Savior of Christians!

 

[Wrangler]

I think it's safe to say, while Paul wrote, there are gods many and lords many, he was not intending to contradict Isaiah's declaration from God, that He is in fact the only God, and beside Him there is none other.

God in Isaiah did not intend to contradict himself in Psalms 82. Paul’s intention was to draw attention to the fact that words have more than one sense.

So, the dichotomy is not ‘true’ or ‘false’ but ‘sense 1’ or ‘sense 2.’

This explains Psalm 110:1. YHWH said to my master ….

 

[Jack]

God in Isaiah did not intend to contradict himself in Psalms 82. Paul’s intention was to draw attention to the fact that words have more than one sense.

So, the dichotomy is not ‘true’ or ‘false’ but ‘sense 1’ or ‘sense 2.’

This explains Psalm 110:1. YHWH said to my master ….

How is it that you speak JWese so fluently? Are you a Hebrew expert too?

 

[ElieG12]

Jesus said that God himself called gods to men:

John 10:34 Jesus answered them: “Is it not written in your Law, ‘I said: “You are gods”’? 35 If he called ‘gods’ those against whom the word of God came—and yet the scripture cannot be nullified— 36 do you say to me whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, ‘You blaspheme,’ because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?

It is very simple to understand that the word "god" is not exclusive to the Most High. Obviously, although there are many so-called gods, the worshipers of "the only true God" (John 17:3) only have One: the Father.

1 Cor. 8:5 For even though there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth, just as there are many “gods” and many “lords,” 6 there is actually to us one God, the Father, from whom all things are and we for him; and there is one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things are and we through him.

Jehovah himself told Moses that he would be like God speaking, while Aaron would act as his prophet when they appeared before Pharaoh:

Exo. 7:1 Jehovah then said to Moses: “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and Aaron your own brother will become your prophet.

So, YES, Jesus is a god, but he IS NOT the Most High God, the God of gods ... and he never taught otherwise. It was some confused religious people after II C.E. who invented the idea that Jesus was equal to God and should take his place in our worship.

If a modern worshiper of Christ could travel back in time to the time when Jesus was teaching, he would never have learned such a thing from the mouths of Jesus or his apostles. That is why that idea does not appear in all of Scripture. No one can take the place of the Father of Jesus, and he does not share his absolute position with anyone.

 

[Jack]

Satan's children want to lead us to the eternal fire with their savior Michael!

 

[ElieG12]

We can easily recognize the children of Satan; Scripture tells how:

James 3:13 Who is wise and understanding among you? Let him by his fine conduct demonstrate works performed with a mildness that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you have bitter jealousy and contentiousness in your hearts, do not be bragging and lying against the truth. 15 This is not the wisdom that comes down from above; it is earthly, animalistic, demonic. 16 For wherever there are jealousy and contentiousness, there will also be disorder and every vile thing.

 

[Jack]

We can easily recognize the children of Satan;

Yes indeed. They say Jesus isn't God. Michael is their savior. And Hell fire isn't eternal!

 

[ElieG12]

I've dealt with people with the same bad attitude as you for decades...and I know very well that these kind of people have a mental issue that they can't control: they believe that by being rude they get any real benefit. Over time, many of these people with that bad energy have dedicated themselves to spreading their bad attitude to society through the internet.

Unfortunately, many of them have become influencers of the masses, bringing out the worst in people to try to dehumanize them. Although many of them pretend to be Christians, the truth is that they are only puppets of atheists, who indoctrinate them and use them to discredit true Christianism, and the name of Jesus and his Father.

So NO, don't think that the type of character you play can surprise anyone... it is already something old, and so old, that it will soon pass away, because God is not going to allow that impudence to continue ruining humanity and bringing disgrace to his name and his true worshipers.

Nevertheless, I wish that God bless you with his great goodness and show you the right way, so that you do not get lost for good.