Were the brothers in Matthew 13:55 Mary's sons?

[Sigma]

Again, The jews believed this also.

was the God of Israel the one true God.. Not the one they worshiped. remember the crucified him

Wait, so you don't believe one God exists?

lol.. when else would he have left his abode in heaven and entered the body of the child?

Well, you must've read somewhere Jesus did not enter the child until he was already born. Where is that said?

If he could do it for mary, Why could he not just do it for Christ? (Oh wait, he did)

Mary received original sin from her father.. (in adam (the father) all die..) thats why jesus was not touched by Joseph

So, you don't think God is capable of preserving Mary's soul from original sin?

its already been refuted. and continues to be refuted..

No, it hasn't, not even by you, and it can't because it's the Truth, but if your conviction is strong enough, you'll try to refute the evidence in the opening post of my thread.

Again, Can you be open? Or will you stand firm and say no amount of evidence will convince you..

I've shown the Truth, so why would I not continue to stand firm in it? I don't understand.

 

[Sigma]

If they were cousins the bible would of mentioned them as such just like other people in the bible. I doubt seriously scripture would leave people perplexed about if Jesus bothers and sisters were half siblings or cousins. If they were cousins it would of presented them as such like below.

Luke 1:36 And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.
Jeremiah 32:7 "Look, Hanamel, your cousin, is coming to you...

Actually, the word used in Lk. 1:36 is "συγγενίς" (syngenis) and it means "a kinswoman, female relative". The words "adelphoi" and "αδελφαι", or "brothers" and "sisters" in English, in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 also share the definition "near kinsman, or relative", and we agree that definition applies in those verses. A male/female kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, niece, nephew, aunt, or uncle, etc.

In the opening post of my thread, I provided evidence that confirms Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 were Jesus's brothers, as in kinsmen, and shows that the type of kinship between them and Jesus was that of cousins, because they were the sons of Joseph's brother, Alphaeus, and his wife Mary of Alphaeus (Clopas/Cleophas). This was accomplished primarily by identifying James.

The scriptural verses and crossover agreement between all my sources, even if not every surname is listed by each individual source, collectively show "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, "James the brother of the Lord," "James the bishop of Jerusalem," "James the Less," "James the Just," and the author of the Epistle of James, were the same person as Apostle James of Alphaeus (Cleophas/Clopas), the son of Jesus's mother's spouse's brother, Alphaeus, and thus he and his siblings Simon, Joseph, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were the kinsmen, specifically cousins, of Jesus.

Regarding Jer. 32:7, it doesn't say Hanameel's "cousin" is coming to him, but rather "αδελφού πατρός" which translates to "brother of your father" in English, which means his uncle came to him.

 

[BeyondET]

Regarding Jer. 32:7, it doesn't say Hanameel's "cousin" is coming to him, but rather "αδελφού πατρός" which translates to "brother of your father" in English, which means his uncle came to him.

What bible translation of Jeremiah 32:7 has it as uncle?

 

[BeyondET]

Actually, the word used in Lk. 1:36 is "συγγενίς" (syngenis) and it means "a kinswoman, female relative". The words "adelphoi" and "αδελφαι", or "brothers" and "sisters" in English, in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 also share the definition "near kinsman, or relative", and we agree that definition applies in those verses. A male/female kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, niece, nephew, aunt, or uncle, etc.

In the opening post of my thread, I provided evidence that confirms Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 were Jesus's brothers, as in kinsmen, and shows that the type of kinship between them and Jesus was that of cousins, because they were the sons of Joseph's brother, Alphaeus, and his wife Mary of Alphaeus (Clopas/Cleophas). This was accomplished primarily by identifying James.

The scriptural verses and crossover agreement between all my sources, even if not every surname is listed by each individual source, collectively show "James" in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, "James the brother of the Lord," "James the bishop of Jerusalem," "James the Less," "James the Just," and the author of the Epistle of James, were the same person as Apostle James of Alphaeus (Cleophas/Clopas), the son of Jesus's mother's spouse's brother, Alphaeus, and thus he and his siblings Simon, Joseph, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were the kinsmen, specifically cousins, of Jesus.

In all the verses in the bible that mentions Jesus brothers and sisters not a single one is using kinsmen or kinswomen, cousins or anything like that.

Jesus had brothers and sisters and cousins and uncle's and aunt's.

Matthew 12:46
While he was still speaking with the crowds, his mother and brothers were standing outside wanting to speak to him.

Matthew 3:55
“Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t His mother’s name Mary, and aren’t His brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas?

Matthew 3:56
Aren’t all His sisters with us as well? Where then did this man get all these things?”

Luke 8:19
Then his mother and brothers came to him, but they could not meet with him because of the crowd.

Mark 3:31
His mother and his brothers came, and standing outside, they sent word to him and called him.

mark 6:3
Isn’t this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and the brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And aren’t his sisters here with us? ” So they were offended by him.

John 7:3
So his brothers said to him, “Leave here and go to Judea so that your disciples can see your works that you are doing.

John 7:5
For not even His brothers were believing in Him.

John 7:10
However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret.

Acts 1:14
They all were continually united in prayer, along with the women, including Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.

Galatians 1:19
But I didn’t see any of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Wait, so you don't believe one God exists?

now your going to twist what I said?

I believe in a triune God. That does not mean I believe in your God.

Well, you must've read somewhere Jesus did not enter the child until he was already born. Where is that said?

lol. God breaths life into a knew born.. You never heard of this?

So, you don't think God is capable of preserving Mary's soul from original sin?

I believe it would not matter if he did or if he did not

it would not keep her from her own sin. Which would have made her an imperfect being who needed saved. Which is why She called Jesus HER savior..

No, it hasn't, not even by you, and it can't because it's the Truth, but if your conviction is strong enough, you'll try to refute the evidence in the opening post of my thread.

its your truth.

but it has been refuted. You believing it or not does not matter

I've shown the Truth, so why would I not continue to stand firm in it? I don't understand.

Again,

You have shown me your truth.

why would you not continue to stand? Maybe because if you opened up. You would see it is not the truth.

 

[Sigma]

now your going to twist what I said?

I believe in a triune God.

I didn't twist what you said, I asked a question. So, you believe the one triune God exists? If so, me too.

lol. God breaths life into a knew born.. You never heard of this?

I haven't read Jesus did not enter the child until he was already born, but apparently you have, so where did you read that?

I believe it would not matter if he did or if he did not

I didn't ask if you believe God did or didn't preserve Mary's soul from original sin. I asked if you believe God is capable of preserving Mary's soul from original sin? Do you believe God is capable of preserving Mary's soul from original sin?

its your truth.

but it has been refuted. You believing it or not does not matter

My position hasn't been refuted. Your saying it has doesn't make it so.

why would you not continue to stand? Maybe because if you opened up. You would see it is not the truth.

I've shown my position is True, so it's a foreign idea to me to be open to being wrong on this topic.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I didn't twist what you said, I asked a question. So, you believe the one triune God exists? If so, me too.

we do not worship the same God

I haven't read Jesus did not enter the child until he was already born, but apparently you have, so where did you read that?

I didn't ask if you believe God did or didn't preserve Mary's soul from original sin. I asked if you believe God is capable of preserving Mary's soul from original sin? Do you believe God is capable of preserving Mary's soul from original sin?

your question is nonsensical.

God could have done the same for Jesus.

again, your questions do not help you at all..

My position hasn't been refuted. Your saying it has doesn't make it so.

You saying they have not does not make it so either

I've shown my position is True, so it's a foreign idea to me to be open to being wrong on this topic.

Because you are blindly following your church, who in your view. can say no wrong.

if your not open to being wrong.. then you have no basis for which to even discuss the word.. because you can not be taught.. all you can do is push your ideas on others.. which is not helpful.

 

[Sigma]

we do not worship the same God

There's only one triune God, so we must.

lol. God breaths life into a knew born.. You never heard of this?

I haven't read Jesus did not enter the child until he was already born, but apparently you have, so where did you read that?

your question is nonsensical.

God could have done the same for Jesus.

So, you do believe God is capable of preserving Mary's soul from original sin?

You saying they have not does not make it so either

I'm glad you agree your saying my position has been refuted doesn't make it so. And, I know my saying it hasn't it itself doesn't make it so either, which is why I actually showed why my position is True.

if your not open to being wrong.. then you have no basis for which to even discuss the word.. because you can not be taught.. all you can do is push your ideas on others.. which is not helpful.

Regarding all things, there's Truth and falsehoods about it, such as with this topic. I'm not "pushing my ideas" on it onto others. I'm showing what's True and thus exposing what's taught and believed falsely about it.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

There's only one triune God, so we must.

if we did, our Gods would teach the same doctrines. they do not.

I'm glad you agree your saying my position has been refuted doesn't make it so. And, I know my saying it hasn't it itself doesn't make it so either, which is why I actually showed why my position is True.

which makes it nonsensical.

every argument you have used does not prove you are correct..it could be used against you just the same way, and you can not prove it is incorrect when it is used against you

Regarding all things, there's Truth and falsehoods about it, such as with this topic. I'm not "pushing my ideas" on it onto others. I'm showing what's True and thus exposing what's taught and believed falsely about it.

You just proved my point

Your pushing what YOU BELIEVE TO BE TRUE

its ok though./. through many chat rooms and many threads within this very chatroom itself.. many have come before you and has done the same,, your not the first. you won't be the last.

 

[Sigma]

if we did, our Gods would teach the same doctrines. they do not.

I see what you're getting at now. We both believe in the same God, we just have different understandings of doctrines, etc.

lol. God breaths life into a knew born.. You never heard of this?

I haven't read Jesus did not enter the child until he was already born, but apparently you have, so where did you read that?

God could have done the same for Jesus.

So, you do believe God is capable of preserving Mary's soul from original sin?

You just proved my point

Your pushing what YOU BELIEVE TO BE TRUE

I'm showing what's True and thus exposing what's taught and believed falsely about it, just as you believe you are doing to me, but we're not forcing each other to accept what we say.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I see what you're getting at now. We both believe in the same God, we just have different understandings of doctrines, etc.

Again i disagree

Isreal said they believed in the one true God.. yet they crucified him, because the true God they worshipped was not the true God

As for being open.

I am very open. I have changed my views on a few doctrines because i have seen the error on what i was taught.

You have stated your mind is prety much closed.. so please do not say we are dong the same, we are not

if you show me something that would change my view. i will certainly admit my error.

 

[Sigma]

Isreal said they believed in the one true God.. yet they crucified him, because the true God they worshipped was not the true God

How many gods do you believe exist?

lol. God breaths life into a knew born.. You never heard of this?

I haven't read Jesus did not enter the child until he was already born, but apparently you have, so where did you read that?

God could have done the same for Jesus.

So, you do believe God is capable of preserving Mary's soul from original sin?

I am very open. I have changed my views on a few doctrines because i have seen the error on what i was taught.

You have stated your mind is prety much closed.. so please do not say we are dong the same, we are not

I never said my mind is closed in general. I said I'm standing firm in my position on this topic because what I've shown about it is True. If I'm shown to be wrong about a belief, and I recognize that, then I'll accept what's True.

Now, you believe Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus), and unnamed sisters in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3 were His siblings, yes?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

I never said my mind is closed in general. I said I'm standing firm in my position on this topic because what I've shown about it is True. If I'm shown to be wrong about a belief, and I recognize that, then I'll accept what's True.

Now, you believe Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus), and unnamed sisters in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3 were His siblings, yes?

No where are we told they were his cousins.

Martha was marry’s cousin..and the same author which said that called those people his brothers not his cousin.

They did not use the same word..

again, if somethign CAN mean something, it does not mean it HAS to mean something

there is more support that they were his brothers and sisters. Than there is that he was not.

but neither can be proven with a shadow of a doubt, it is only our ideas..

so if either of us stand on our belief and claim it is true according to eh word we would be in error..

 

[Sigma]

No where are we told they were his cousins.

Martha was marries cousin..

They did not use the same word..

again, if somethign CAN mean something, it does not mean it HAS to mean something

there is more support that they were his brothers and sisters. Than there is that he was not.

but neither can be proven with a shadow of a doubt, it is only our ideas..

so if either of us stand on our belief and claim it is true according to eh word we would be in error..

So, you believe Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus), and unnamed sisters in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 were His siblings?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How many gods do you believe exist?

What God did the jews worship> the same God they worshiped when they crucified God?

I haven't read Jesus did not enter the child until he was already born, but apparently you have, so where did you read that?



So, you do believe God is capable of preserving Mary's soul from original sin?

stop asking this question. You know the answer, God can do anything, but your question is still nonsensical. if God can do it for mary, he can do it for Jesus which negates the need to do it for mary,

and if he can do it for mary, he would not need to have jesus born of a virgin he could do the same for jesus.

Your argument counters itself..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

So, you believe Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus), and unnamed sisters in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 were His siblings?

Are you going to sit there and keep asking the same question?

do you realise what it makes you look like?

I answered your question, dont ask the same question i already answered

 

[Sigma]

What God did the jews worship> the same God they worshiped when they crucified God?

So, you believe that one God exists?

lol. God breaths life into a knew born.. You never heard of this?

I haven't read Jesus did not enter the child until he was already born, but apparently you have, so where did you read that?

stop asking this question. You know the answer, God can do anything, but your question is still nonsensical. if God can do it for mary, he can do it for Jesus which negates the need to do it for mary,

So, you believe God is capable of preserving Mary's soul from original sin. My next question is, do you believe God preserved Jesus's soul from original sin? If so, why did God need to do that?

I answered your question...

So, you do believe Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus), and unnamed sisters in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 were His siblings. Well, in my thread Were they Jesus's siblings?, I confirmed Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3 were Jesus's brothers, as in "a near kinsman, or relative", and showed the type of kinsmen/relatives they were to Him was cousins, as they were the sons of Jesus's mother's spouse's brother, Alphaeus, and his wife Mary of Cleophas (Clopas/Alphaeus). Note: This doesn't prove the perpetual Virginity of Mary, though there are reasons that show She is. I challenge you to answer the questions below each section of scriptural verses below:

Note: The Koine Greek words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), translated to "brother" and "sister" in English, have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, aunt, etc. Additionally, the word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) in the plural regularly refers to men and women.

I. "Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is His mother not called Mary, and His brothers, James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? 56 And His sisters, are they not all with us?" (Matt. 13:55-56)
Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are His sisters not here with us?” (Mk. 6:3-4)

If you agree the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies to the Koine Greek words "ἀδελφοί" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai) in Matt. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, what evidence do you have, if any, that shows the type of kinsman/kinswoman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, aunt, etc., that applies here is siblings?

II. "And when His own people heard about this..." (Mk. 3:21)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Mk. 3:21; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, aunt, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

III. "While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him". (Matt. 12:46)
"Then His mother and His brothers came..." (Mk. 3:31)
"Now His mother and brothers came to Him..." (Lk. 8:19)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Matt 12:46;Mk 3:31;Lk. 8:19; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that those brothers were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

IV. "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers and His disciples; and they stayed there a few days." (Jn. 2:12)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Jn. 2:12; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

V. "For not even His brothers believed in Him". (Jn. 7:5)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Jn. 7:5; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings;
and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

VI. "All these were continually devoting themselves with one mind to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers". (Ac. 1:14)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Ac. 1:14; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

VII. "But I did not see another one of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother". (Gal. 1:19)

The James called Jesus's brother in Gal. 1:19 is also called an apostle in that same verse, and there's only two apostles named "James": James of Zebedee and James of Alphaeus. Therefore, how could this James be the sibling of Jesus?

VIII. "Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?" (1 Cor. 9:5)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in 1 Cor. 9:5; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How many gods do you believe exist?

only one God exists

but look at this history of the world. Men have followed many gods

is this to hard for you to understand? Or are you just trying to deflect?

So, you do believe Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus), and unnamed sisters in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 were His siblings. Well, I've already done the work to prove my position, which is that they were His brothers, as in kinsmen, specifically His cousins, because they were the sons of Joseph's brother, Alphaeus, and his wife Mary of Cleophas (Clopas/Alphaeus).

I've repeatedly showed and explained why to you, but you're still not getting it. So, I'm going to try a different approach and put you to work, and make you try to actually prove your position, verse by verse.

Note: The words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), or "brother" and "sister" in English, have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. Additionally, the word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) in the plural regularly refers to men and women.

(i) "Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is His mother not called Mary, and His brothers, James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? 56 And His sisters, are they not all with us?" (Matt. 13:55-56)

Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are His sisters not here with us?” (Mk. 6:3-4)

Matt. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 are two accounts of the same scene. We agree the definition that applies to the words "ἀδελφοί" (pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (pl. αδελφαι adelphai) in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 is "a near kinsman, or relative", but a male/female kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc., and the words themselves don't indicate which type of kinship applies. What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the type of kinship that applies to Jesus's brothers and sisters here is siblings?

(ii) "While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him". (Matt. 12:46)

"Then His mother and His brothers came..." (Mk. 3:31)

"Now His mother and brothers came to Him..." (Lk. 8:19)

Matt. 12:46, Mk. 3:31, and Lk. 8:19 are three accounts of the same scene, and the word used in each is "ἀδελφοί" (pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) or "brothers" in English. What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies here; that the type of kinship that applies here is siblings; and that those brothers were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

(iii) "For not even His brothers believed in Him". (Jn. 7:5)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies here; that the type of kinship that applies here is siblings; and that those brothers were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

(iv) "All these were continually devoting themselves with one mind to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers". (Ac. 1:14)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies here; that the type of kinship that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

(v) "But I did not see another one of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother". (Gal. 1:19)

The James called Jesus's brother in Gal. 1:19 is also called an apostle in that same verse, and there's only two apostles named "James": James of Zebedee and James of Alphaeus. Therefore, how could this James be the sibling of Jesus?

Once again.

all you have done is show it MIGHT be one way or the other

You have not proven it

have you ever had bible discussion with people before? You do nto seem very adept at it.. You keep posting the same things thinking you will get a different result. When all you do is keep repeating things which do not prove your point. And insisting they do..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

How many gods do you believe exist?

only one God exists

but look at this history of the world. Men have followed many gods

is this to hard for you to understand? Or are you just trying to deflect?

So, you do believe Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, Judas (Jude/Thaddeus), and unnamed sisters in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 were His siblings. Well, I've already done the work to prove my position, which is that they were His brothers, as in kinsmen, specifically His cousins, because they were the sons of Joseph's brother, Alphaeus, and his wife Mary of Cleophas (Clopas/Alphaeus).

I've repeatedly showed and explained why to you, but you're still not getting it. So, I'm going to try a different approach and put you to work, and make you try to actually prove your position, verse by verse.

Note: The words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), or "brother" and "sister" in English, have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. Additionally, the word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) in the plural regularly refers to men and women.

(i) "Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is His mother not called Mary, and His brothers, James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? 56 And His sisters, are they not all with us?" (Matt. 13:55-56)

Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are His sisters not here with us?” (Mk. 6:3-4)

Matt. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 are two accounts of the same scene. We agree the definition that applies to the words "ἀδελφοί" (pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (pl. αδελφαι adelphai) in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 is "a near kinsman, or relative", but a male/female kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc., and the words themselves don't indicate which type of kinship applies. What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the type of kinship that applies to Jesus's brothers and sisters here is siblings?

(ii) "While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him". (Matt. 12:46)

"Then His mother and His brothers came..." (Mk. 3:31)

"Now His mother and brothers came to Him..." (Lk. 8:19)

Matt. 12:46, Mk. 3:31, and Lk. 8:19 are three accounts of the same scene, and the word used in each is "ἀδελφοί" (pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) or "brothers" in English. What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies here; that the type of kinship that applies here is siblings; and that those brothers were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

(iii) "For not even His brothers believed in Him". (Jn. 7:5)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies here; that the type of kinship that applies here is siblings; and that those brothers were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

(iv) "All these were continually devoting themselves with one mind to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers". (Ac. 1:14)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies here; that the type of kinship that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

(v) "But I did not see another one of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother". (Gal. 1:19)

The James called Jesus's brother in Gal. 1:19 is also called an apostle in that same verse, and there's only two apostles named "James": James of Zebedee and James of Alphaeus. Therefore, how could this James be the sibling of Jesus?

Once again.

all you have done is show it MIGHT be one way or the other

You have not proven it

have you ever had bible discussion with people before? You do nto seem very adept at it.. You keep posting the same things thinking you will get a different result. When all you do is keep repeating things which do not prove your point. And insisting they do..

 

[Sigma]

You have not proven it.

In my thread Were they Jesus's siblings?, I confirmed Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3
were Jesus's brothers, as in "a near kinsman, or relative", and showed the type of kinsmen/relatives they were to Him was cousins, as they were the sons of Jesus's mother's spouse's brother, Alphaeus, and his wife Mary of Cleophas (Clopas/Alphaeus). Note: This doesn't prove the perpetual Virginity of Mary, though there are reasons that show She is.

I challenge you to answer the questions below each section of scriptural verses below:

Note: The Koine Greek words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), translated to "brother" and "sister" in English, have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, aunt, etc. Additionally, the word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) in the plural regularly refers to men and women.

I. "Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is His mother not called Mary, and His brothers, James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? 56 And His sisters, are they not all with us?" (Matt. 13:55-56)
Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are His sisters not here with us?” (Mk. 6:3-4)

If you agree the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies to the Koine Greek words "ἀδελφοί" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai) in Matt. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, what evidence do you have, if any, that shows the type of kinsman/kinswoman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, aunt, etc., that applies here is siblings?

II. "And when His own people heard about this..." (Mk. 3:21)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Mk. 3:21; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, aunt, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

III. "While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him". (Matt. 12:46)
"Then His mother and His brothers came..." (Mk. 3:31)
"Now His mother and brothers came to Him..." (Lk. 8:19)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Matt 12:46;Mk 3:31;Lk. 8:19; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that those brothers were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

IV. "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers and His disciples; and they stayed there a few days." (Jn. 2:12)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Jn. 2:12; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

V. "For not even His brothers believed in Him". (Jn. 7:5)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Jn. 7:5; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings;
and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

VI. "All these were continually devoting themselves with one mind to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers". (Ac. 1:14)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Ac. 1:14; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

VII. "But I did not see another one of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother". (Gal. 1:19)

The James called Jesus's brother in Gal. 1:19 is also called an apostle in that same verse, and there's only two apostles named "James": James of Zebedee and James of Alphaeus. Therefore, how could this James be the sibling of Jesus?

VIII. "Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?" (1 Cor. 9:5)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in 1 Cor. 9:5; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?