Were the brothers in Matthew 13:55 Mary's sons?

[Eternally Grateful]

I've already done the work to prove my position, which is that Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were the sons of Joseph's brother, Alphaeus, and his wife Mary of Cleophas (Clopas/Alphaeus), and thus were in fact Jesus's brothers, as in kinsmen, specifically cousins.

However, that doesn't guarantee you'll accept the Truth, and you don't, so I'm going to try a different approach, and have you try to show there's "more to support" that Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were His siblings, verse by verse.

See your homework below:

Note: The words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), or "brother" and "sister" in English, have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. Additionally, the word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) in the plural regularly refers to men and women.

(i) "Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is His mother not called Mary, and His brothers, James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? 56 And His sisters, are they not all with us?" (Matt. 13:55-56)

Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are His sisters not here with us?” (Mk. 6:3-4)

Matt. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 are two accounts of the same scene. We agree the definition that applies to the words "ἀδελφοί" (pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (pl. αδελφαι adelphai) in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 is "a near kinsman, or relative", but a male/female kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc., and the words themselves don't indicate which type of kinship applies. What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the type of kinship that applies to Jesus's brothers and sisters here is siblings?

(ii) "While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him". (Matt. 12:46)

"Then His mother and His brothers came..." (Mk. 3:31)

"Now His mother and brothers came to Him..." (Lk. 8:19)

Matt. 12:46, Mk. 3:31, and Lk. 8:19 are three accounts of the same scene, and the word used in each is "ἀδελφοί" (pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) or "brothers" in English. What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies here; that the type of kinship that applies here is siblings; and that those brothers were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

(iii) "For not even His brothers believed in Him". (Jn. 7:5)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies here; that the type of kinship that applies here is siblings; and that those brothers were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

(iv) "All these were continually devoting themselves with one mind to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers". (Ac. 1:14)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies here; that the type of kinship that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

(v) "But I did not see another one of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother". (Gal. 1:19)

The James called Jesus's brother in Gal. 1:19 is also called an apostle in that same verse, and there's only two apostles named "James": James of Zebedee and James of Alphaeus. Therefore, how could this James be the sibling of Jesus?


Or, do you refuse to address i-v above and show there's "more to support" that Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were His siblings?

This does not prove your case my friend

stop saying it does..

at best. It proves you MAY be right

Just because you MAY be right, does not mean you ARE right.

once again,, you do not understand how to argue without being pushy.. stop saying you have proven something when you have not..

 

[Sigma]

@Eternally Grateful, show there's "more to support" that Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were His siblings, verse by verse below:

Note: The Koine Greek words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), translated to "brother" and "sister" in English, have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, aunt, etc. Additionally, the word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) in the plural regularly refers to men and women.​

I. "Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is His mother not called Mary, and His brothers, James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? 56 And His sisters, are they not all with us?" (Matt. 13:55-56)
Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are His sisters not here with us?” (Mk. 6:3-4)

If you agree the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies to the Koine Greek words "ἀδελφοί" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai) in Matt. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, what evidence do you have, if any, that shows the type of kinsman/kinswoman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, aunt, etc., that applies here is siblings?

II. "And when His own people heard about this..." (Mk. 3:21)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Mk. 3:21; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, aunt, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

III. "While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him". (Matt. 12:46)
"Then His mother and His brothers came..." (Mk. 3:31)
"Now His mother and brothers came to Him..." (Lk. 8:19)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Matt 12:46;Mk 3:31;Lk. 8:19; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that those brothers were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

IV. "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers and His disciples; and they stayed there a few days." (Jn. 2:12)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Jn. 2:12; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

V. "For not even His brothers believed in Him". (Jn. 7:5)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Jn. 7:5; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

VI. "All these were continually devoting themselves with one mind to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers". (Ac. 1:14)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Ac. 1:14; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

VII. "But I did not see another one of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother". (Gal. 1:19)

The James called Jesus's brother in Gal. 1:19 is also called an apostle in that same verse, and there's only two apostles named "James": James of Zebedee and James of Alphaeus. Therefore, how could this James be the sibling of Jesus?

VIII. "Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?" (1 Cor. 9:5)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in 1 Cor. 9:5; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

 

[Eternally Grateful]

@Eternally Grateful, show there's "more to support" that Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were His siblings, verse by verse below:

Note: The words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), or "brother" and "sister" in English, have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. Additionally, the word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) in the plural regularly refers to men and women.

(i) "Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is His mother not called Mary, and His brothers, James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? 56 And His sisters, are they not all with us?" (Matt. 13:55-56)

Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are His sisters not here with us?” (Mk. 6:3-4)

Matt. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 are two accounts of the same scene. We agree the definition that applies to the words "ἀδελφοί" (pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (pl. αδελφαι adelphai) in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 is "a near kinsman, or relative", but a male/female kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc., and the words themselves don't indicate which type of kinship applies. What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the type of kinship that applies to Jesus's brothers and sisters here is siblings?

(ii) "While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him". (Matt. 12:46)

"Then His mother and His brothers came..." (Mk. 3:31)

"Now His mother and brothers came to Him..." (Lk. 8:19)

Matt. 12:46, Mk. 3:31, and Lk. 8:19 are three accounts of the same scene, and the word used in each is "ἀδελφοί" (pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) or "brothers" in English. What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies here; that the type of kinship that applies here is siblings; and that those brothers were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

(iii) "For not even His brothers believed in Him". (Jn. 7:5)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies here; that the type of kinship that applies here is siblings; and that those brothers were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

(iv) "All these were continually devoting themselves with one mind to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers". (Ac. 1:14)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies here; that the type of kinship that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

(v) "But I did not see another one of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother". (Gal. 1:19)

The James called Jesus's brother in Gal. 1:19 is also called an apostle in that same verse, and there's only two apostles named "James": James of Zebedee and James of Alphaeus. Therefore, how could this James be the sibling of Jesus?


Or, do you refuse to address i-v above and show there's "more to support" that Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were His siblings?

1. I already showed you the same author used cousin concerning the cousin of Mary
2. The word says Jospeh did not KNOW mary intimately UNTIL the birth of her firstborn son ( you can excuse it anyway you want, but unless Joseph and or mary died at jesus birth. it means they had sexual relations
3. if they had sexual relations, then considering they di dnot have birth control in Jesus day, it is more than easy to believe they had different kids.
4. The fact Mary’s kids were always with her, and not with their parents, if they were just cousins, again is support that they were her children. Not her nieces and nephews.

once again my friend,, I have had this discussion with so many catholics I have lost count.

You can;t rove your point, the best you can do is show you MAY be right.

we do not make doctrines based on what MAY be true.. because what MAY be true may be wrong.

 

[Sigma]

1. I already showed you the same author used cousin concerning the cousin of Mary

Actually, the word used in Lk. 1:36 is "συγγενίς" (syngenis) and it means "a kinswoman, female relative", and female kinswoman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, niece, or aunt, etc.

2. The word says Jospeh did not KNOW mary intimately UNTIL the birth of her firstborn son ( you can excuse it anyway you want, but unless Joseph and or mary died at jesus birth. it means they had sexual relations

Whenever the Koine Greek word "ἕως" (heōs), translated to "until" in English, is used in Scripture, it's not always used to indicate what didn't happen until a certain point started to happen after that point. In some cases, it's used to refer to something that didn't happen during a certain period, like in the case of Matt. 1:25.

The context of Matt. 1:25 is Joseph's accepting as his spouse the virgin who conceived the Savior of mankind by the Holy Spirit. The gospel writer concludes the passage by stating that Joseph didn't have intercourse with Mary until Jesus's birth, to dispel any belief that he was the father. In other words, since the gospel writer's intent at the end was to dispel any belief that Jesus was conceived by Joseph, and not begotten by the Holy Spirit, they stated he remained chaste until Jesus's birth. Using the word "until" to indicate Joseph and Mary had sex after Jesus's birth doesn't dispel the belief Jesus was conceived by Joseph.

Therefore, the argument that the gospel writer, after writing about the long-anticipated messianic prophecy coming to fruition, basically threw in the tidbit, "After the birth of the Savior, Joseph had intercourse with Mary and 4 more kids" at the end is quite random and isn't in line with the context of Matt. 1:20-25.

4. The fact Mary’s kids were always with her, and not with their parents, if they were just cousins, again is support that they were her children. Not her nieces and nephews.

You say I may be right that those believed to be Jesus's siblings were actually His cousins. Therefore, if they were, as well as close with Jesus's mother, then that would explain why they were "always with Her." However, pointing out family is always with family as proof certain family members were specifically sons is asinine, because one doesn't have to be another's son in order to "always be with" family.

 

[Sigma]

In all the verses in the bible that mentions Jesus brothers and sisters not a single one is using kinsmen or kinswomen, cousins or anything like that.

Jesus had brothers and sisters and cousins and uncle's and aunt's.

Matthew 12:46
While he was still speaking with the crowds, his mother and brothers were standing outside wanting to speak to him.

Matthew 3:55
“Isn’t this the carpenter’s son? Isn’t His mother’s name Mary, and aren’t His brothers James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas?

Matthew 3:56
Aren’t all His sisters with us as well? Where then did this man get all these things?”

Luke 8:19
Then his mother and brothers came to him, but they could not meet with him because of the crowd.

Mark 3:31
His mother and his brothers came, and standing outside, they sent word to him and called him.

mark 6:3
Isn’t this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and the brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And aren’t his sisters here with us? ” So they were offended by him.

John 7:3
So his brothers said to him, “Leave here and go to Judea so that your disciples can see your works that you are doing.

John 7:5
For not even His brothers were believing in Him.

John 7:10
However, after his brothers had left for the festival, he went also, not publicly, but in secret.

Acts 1:14
They all were continually united in prayer, along with the women, including Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers.

Galatians 1:19
But I didn’t see any of the other apostles except James, the Lord’s brother.

In my thread Were they Jesus's siblings?, I confirmed Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3
were Jesus's brothers, as in "a near kinsman, or relative", and showed the type of kinsmen/relatives they were to Him was cousins, as they were the sons of Jesus's mother's spouse's brother, Alphaeus, and his wife Mary of Cleophas (Clopas/Alphaeus).
Note: This doesn't prove the perpetual Virginity of Mary, though there are reasons that show She is.

Since you reject what I've shown to be True, and continue to merely cite certain verses in Scripture where they read of Jesus's "brother(s)" and "sister(s)" and claim they were His siblings, I'm going to try a different approach in an effort to help you accept the Truth. I challenge you to answer the questions below each section of scriptural verses below:

Note: The Koine Greek words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), translated to "brother" and "sister" in English, have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, aunt, etc. Additionally, the word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) in the plural regularly refers to men and women.

I. "Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is His mother not called Mary, and His brothers, James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? 56 And His sisters, are they not all with us?" (Matt. 13:55-56)
Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are His sisters not here with us?” (Mk. 6:3-4)

If you agree the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies to the Koine Greek words "ἀδελφοί" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai) in Matt. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3, what evidence do you have, if any, that shows the type of kinsman/kinswoman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, aunt, etc., that applies here is siblings?

II. "And when His own people heard about this..." (Mk. 3:21)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Mk. 3:21; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, aunt, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

III. "While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him". (Matt. 12:46)
"Then His mother and His brothers came..." (Mk. 3:31)
"Now His mother and brothers came to Him..." (Lk. 8:19)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Matt 12:46;Mk 3:31;Lk. 8:19; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that those brothers were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

IV. "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers and His disciples; and they stayed there a few days." (Jn. 2:12)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Jn. 2:12; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

V. "For not even His brothers believed in Him". (Jn. 7:5)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Jn. 7:5; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

VI. "All these were continually devoting themselves with one mind to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers". (Ac. 1:14)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in Ac. 1:14; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

VII. "But I did not see another one of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother". (Gal. 1:19)

The James called Jesus's brother in Gal. 1:19 is also called an apostle in that same verse, and there's only two apostles named "James": James of Zebedee and James of Alphaeus. Therefore, how could this James be the sibling of Jesus?

VIII. "Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?" (1 Cor. 9:5)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies in 1 Cor. 9:5; that the type of kinsman/relative, e.g., sibling, cousin, nephew, uncle, etc., that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

What bible translation of Jeremiah 32:7 has it as uncle?

In the Septuagint—the earliest extant Greek translation of the Old Testament from the original Hebrew— it doesn't say Hanameel's "cousin" is coming to him, but rather "αδελφού πατρός" which translates to "brother of your father", and the brother of his father would mean it's his uncle coming to him.

 

[BeyondET]

I've already done the work to prove my position, which is that Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were the sons of Joseph's brother, Alphaeus, and his wife Mary of Cleophas (Clopas/Alphaeus), and thus were in fact Jesus's brothers, as in kinsmen, specifically cousins.

However, that doesn't guarantee you'll accept the Truth, and you don't, so I'm going to try a different approach, and have you try to show there's "more to support" that Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were His siblings, verse by verse.

Note: The words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), or "brother" and "sister" in English, have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. Additionally, the word "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) in the plural regularly refers to men and women.

(i) "Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is His mother not called Mary, and His brothers, James, Joseph, Simon, and Judas? 56 And His sisters, are they not all with us?" (Matt. 13:55-56)

Is this not the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James, Joses, Judas, and Simon? And are His sisters not here with us?” (Mk. 6:3-4)

Matt. 13:55 and Mk. 6:3 are two accounts of the same scene. We agree the definition that applies to the words "ἀδελφοί" (pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (pl. αδελφαι adelphai) in Matt. 13:55-56/Mk. 6:3-4 is "a near kinsman, or relative", but a male/female kinsman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc., and the words themselves don't indicate which type of kinship applies. What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the type of kinship that applies to Jesus's brothers and sisters here is siblings?

(ii) "While He was still speaking to the crowds, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him". (Matt. 12:46)

"Then His mother and His brothers came..." (Mk. 3:31)

"Now His mother and brothers came to Him..." (Lk. 8:19)

Matt. 12:46, Mk. 3:31, and Lk. 8:19 are three accounts of the same scene, and the word used in each is "ἀδελφοί" (pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) or "brothers" in English. What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies here; that the type of kinship that applies here is siblings; and that those brothers were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

(iii) "For not even His brothers believed in Him". (Jn. 7:5)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies here; that the type of kinship that applies here is siblings; and that those brothers were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

(iv) "All these were continually devoting themselves with one mind to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers". (Ac. 1:14)

What evidence do you have, if any, that shows the definition "a near kinsman, or relative" applies here; that the type of kinship that applies here is siblings; and that the brothers here were specifically some or all of Jesus's male brothers named in Matt. 13:55/Mk. 6:3, and which ones?

(v) "But I did not see another one of the apostles except James, the Lord’s brother". (Gal. 1:19)

The James called Jesus's brother in Gal. 1:19 is also called an apostle in that same verse, and there's only two apostles named "James": James of Zebedee and James of Alphaeus. Therefore, how could this James be the sibling of Jesus?



In the Septuagint—the earliest extant Greek translation of the Old Testament from the original Hebrew— it doesn't say Hanameel's "cousin" is coming to him, but rather "αδελφού πατρός" which translates to "brother of your father", and the brother of his father would mean it's his uncle coming to him.

The words in scripture is inspired by God. And there is no translations that use cousins or kinsman in place of brother or sister.

Your basically saying all the translations are wrong.

 

[Sigma]

The words in scripture is inspired by God. And there is no translations the use cousins in place of brother or sister.

Again, the verses you cite use the words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), or "brother" and "sister" in English, and they have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. A male/female kinsman/kinswoman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc.

Anyway, do you refuse to show that Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were His siblings by addressing I-IX in post #125?

 

[BeyondET]

The verses you cite use the words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), or "brother" and "sister" in English, and they have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. A male/female kinsman/kinswoman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc.

Anyway, do you refuse to show that Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were His siblings by addressing i-v in post #125?

There's no english translations that describes Jesus's bothers and sisters as kinsmen or cousin period.

There's nothing in post 125 that isn't your own personal hypothesis.

You can't stand the idea of Mary having babies after Jesus.

Because it would force you to reexamine the idea of Mary being a virgin her whole life.

 

[Sigma]

There's no english translations that describes Jesus's bothers and sisters as kinsmen...

Bill Mounce's Greek Dictionary

Forms of the word
Dictionary: ἀδελφός, -οῦ, ὁ
Greek transliteration: adelphos
Simplified transliteration: adelphos

Numbers
Strong's number: 80
GK Number: 81

Statistics
Frequency in New Testament: 343
Morphology of Biblical Greek Tag: n-2a

Gloss:
brother, fellow countryman, neighbor (often inclusive in gender); by extension a fellow believer in the family of faith; in the plural brothers regularly refers to men and women

Definition:
a brother, near kinsman, or relative; one of the same nation or nature; one of equal rank and dignity; an associate, a member of the Christian community

Bill Mounce's Greek Dictionary

Forms of the word
Dictionary: ἀδελφή, -ῆς, ἡ
Greek transliteration: adelphē
Simplified transliteration: adelphe

Numbers
Strong's number: 79
GK Number: 80

Statistics
Frequency in New Testament: 26
Morphology of Biblical Greek Tag: n-1b

Gloss:
sister, fellow countrywoman; by extension a female believer, a sister in the family of faith

Definition:
a sister; near kinswoman, or female relative, a female member of the Christian community

The verses you cite use the words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), or "brother" and "sister" in English, and they have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. A kinsman/kinswoman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc.

There's nothing in post 125 that isn't your own personal hypothesis.

No, in post #125 I'm asking you questions under each section of scriptural verses, that give you the opportunity to show Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were His siblings. Do you refuse to do that?

 

[BeyondET]

The verses you cite use the words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), or "brother" and "sister" in English, and they have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. A male/female kinsman/kinswoman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc.



No, in post #125 I'm asking you questions under each section of scriptural verses, that give you the opportunity to show Jesus's brothers Joseph, Simon, James, and Judas (Jude/Thaddeus) were His siblings. Do you refuse to do that?

In post 125 you said it can be applied to siblings, isn't evidence of the hypothesis.

The problem with "it can be used" is that there is no English Bible translation that uses that applied hypothesis. They all use the English words of brother or sister because that's who they were.

How you are applying the Greek word to English word isn't what most all English translations use.

How can so many English translations get it wrong. The people who translate the Greek version to English are professional translators. There's absolutely no evidence that they all got it wrong.

 

[Sigma]

They all use the English words of brother or sister because that's who they were. How you are applying the Greek word to English word isn't what most all English translations use.

The English words are the translations of the original language used: Koine Greek. The verses you cite use the Koine Greek words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), translated to "brother" and "sister" in English, and these words have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. A kinsman/kinswoman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc.

Bill Mounce's Greek Dictionary

Forms of the word
Dictionary: ἀδελφός, -οῦ, ὁ
Greek transliteration: adelphos
Simplified transliteration: adelphos

Numbers
Strong's number: 80
GK Number: 81

Statistics
Frequency in New Testament: 343
Morphology of Biblical Greek Tag: n-2a

Gloss:
brother, fellow countryman, neighbor (often inclusive in gender); by extension a fellow believer in the family of faith; in the plural brothers regularly refers to men and women

Definition:
a brother, near kinsman, or relative; one of the same nation or nature; one of equal rank and dignity; an associate, a member of the Christian community

Bill Mounce's Greek Dictionary

Forms of the word
Dictionary: ἀδελφή, -ῆς, ἡ
Greek transliteration: adelphē
Simplified transliteration: adelphe

Numbers
Strong's number: 79
GK Number: 80

Statistics
Frequency in New Testament: 26
Morphology of Biblical Greek Tag: n-1b

Gloss:
sister, fellow countrywoman; by extension a female believer, a sister in the family of faith

Definition:
a sister; near kinswoman, or female relative, a female member of the Christian community

Now, in post #125 I'm asking you questions under each section of scriptural verses. Do you refuse to answer them?

 

[BeyondET]

The English words are the translations of the original language used: Koine Greek. The verses you cite use the Koine Greek words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), which in English translates to "brother" and "sister", and these words have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. A kinsman/kinswoman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc.





Now, in post #125 I'm asking you questions under each section of scriptural verses. Do you refuse to answer them?

You used catholic sources to justify the verses which is bias. The catholic faction isn't going to go against its own belief.

And you haven't explained why most all English translations used brother and sister and cousins in the proper context of the whole Bible. Rather OT or NT the translators made the direct distinction between siblings and kinsmen/cousins.

 

[Sigma]

You used catholic sources to justify the verses which is bias.

What Catholic sources and regarding what exactly?

And you haven't explained why most all English translations used brother and sister and cousins in the proper context of the whole Bible. Rather OT or NT the translators made the direct distinction between siblings and kinsmen/cousins.

In the Septuagint—the earliest extant Greek translation of the Old Testament from the original Hebrew—the translators, for example, substituted the Hebrew words "אחים" ('âchiem) in Gen. 13:8 with the Koine Greek equivalent "ἀδελφοί" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "אָח" ('âch) in Gen 14:14 with the Koine Greek equivalent "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) to show kinship between Abraham and Lot, which lineage shows were that of uncle and nephew: "εἶπεν δὲ Αβραμ τῷ Λωτ Μὴ ἔστω μάχη ἀνὰ μέσον ἐμοῦ καὶ σοῦ καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τῶν ποιμένων μου καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τῶν ποιμένων σου. ὅτι ἄνθρωποι ἀδελφοὶ ἡμεῖς ἐσμεν." (Gen. 13:8) and "ἀκούσας δὲ Αβραμ ὅτι ᾐχμαλώτευται Λωτ ὁ ἀδελφὸς αὐτοῦ, ἠρίθμησεν τοὺς ἰδίους οἰκογενεῖς αὐτοῦ, τριακοσίους δέκα καὶ ὀκτώ, καὶ κατεδίωξεν ὀπίσω αὐτῶν ἕως Δαν." (Gen. 14:14)

The Septuagint translators substituted the Hebrew word "אָח" ('âch) in Gen. 29:15 with the Koine Greek equivalent "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) to show kinship between Jacob and Laban, which lineage shows were that of uncle and nephew: "Εἶπε δὲ Λάβαν τῷ ᾿Ιακώβ· ὅτι γὰρ ἀδελφός μου εἶ, οὐ δουλεύσεις μοι δωρεάν· ἀπάγγειλόν μοι, τίς ὁ μισθός σου ἐστί;" (Gen. 29:15

The Septuagint translators substituted the Hebrew word "אחים" ('âchiem) in 1 Chr. 23:21–22 with the Koine Greek equivalent "ἀδελφοί" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) to show it was kin the daughters of Eleazar married, which lineage shows was their cousins: "καὶ ἀπέθανεν Ελεαζαρ, καὶ οὐκ ἦσαν αὐτῷ υἱοὶ ἀλλ᾽ ἢ θυγατέρες, καὶ ἔλαβον αὐτὰς υἱοὶ Κις ἀδελφοὶ αὐτῶν." (1 Chr. 23:22)

The verses you cite from the NT use the Koine Greek words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), translated to "brother" and "sister" in English, and these words have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. A kinsman/kinswoman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc.

Bill Mounce's Greek Dictionary

Forms of the word
Dictionary: ἀδελφός, -οῦ, ὁ
Greek transliteration: adelphos
Simplified transliteration: adelphos

Numbers
Strong's number: 80
GK Number: 81

Statistics
Frequency in New Testament: 343
Morphology of Biblical Greek Tag: n-2a

Gloss:
brother, fellow countryman, neighbor (often inclusive in gender); by extension a fellow believer in the family of faith; in the plural brothers regularly refers to men and women

Definition:
a brother, near kinsman, or relative; one of the same nation or nature; one of equal rank and dignity; an associate, a member of the Christian community

Bill Mounce's Greek Dictionary

Forms of the word
Dictionary: ἀδελφή, -ῆς, ἡ
Greek transliteration: adelphē
Simplified transliteration: adelphe

Numbers
Strong's number: 79
GK Number: 80

Statistics
Frequency in New Testament: 26
Morphology of Biblical Greek Tag: n-1b

Gloss:
sister, fellow countrywoman; by extension a female believer, a sister in the family of faith

Definition:
a sister; near kinswoman, or female relative, a female member of the Christian community

 

[BeyondET]

What Catholic sources and regarding what exactly?



In the Septuagint—the earliest extant Greek translation of the Old Testament from the original Hebrew—the translators, for example, substituted the Hebrew words "אחים" ('âchiem) in Gen. 13:8 with the Koine Greek equivalent "ἀδελφοί" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "אָח" ('âch) in Gen 14:14 with the Greek equivalent "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) to show kinship between Abraham and Lot, which lineage shows were that of uncle and nephew: "εἶπεν δὲ Αβραμ τῷ Λωτ Μὴ ἔστω μάχη ἀνὰ μέσον ἐμοῦ καὶ σοῦ καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τῶν ποιμένων μου καὶ ἀνὰ μέσον τῶν ποιμένων σου. ὅτι ἄνθρωποι ἀδελφοὶ ἡμεῖς ἐσμεν." (Gen. 13:8) and "ἀκούσας δὲ Αβραμ ὅτι ᾐχμαλώτευται Λωτ ὁ ἀδελφὸς αὐτοῦ, ἠρίθμησεν τοὺς ἰδίους οἰκογενεῖς αὐτοῦ, τριακοσίους δέκα καὶ ὀκτώ, καὶ κατεδίωξεν ὀπίσω αὐτῶν ἕως Δαν." (Gen. 14:14)

The Septuagint translators substituted the Hebrew word "אָח" ('âch) in Gen. 29:15 with the Koine Greek equivalent "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) to show kinship between Jacob and Laban, which lineage shows were that of uncle and nephew: "Εἶπε δὲ Λάβαν τῷ ᾿Ιακώβ· ὅτι γὰρ ἀδελφός μου εἶ, οὐ δουλεύσεις μοι δωρεάν· ἀπάγγειλόν μοι, τίς ὁ μισθός σου ἐστί;" (Gen. 29:15

The Septuagint translators substituted the Hebrew word "אחים" ('âchiem) in 1 Chr. 23:21–22 with the Greek equivalent "ἀδελφοί" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) to show it was kin the daughters of Eleazar married, which lineage shows was their cousins: "καὶ ἀπέθανεν Ελεαζαρ, καὶ οὐκ ἦσαν αὐτῷ υἱοὶ ἀλλ᾽ ἢ θυγατέρες, καὶ ἔλαβον αὐτὰς υἱοὶ Κις ἀδελφοὶ αὐτῶν." (1 Chr. 23:22)

The verses you cite from the NT use the Koine Greek words "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), which in English translates to "brother" and "sister", and these words have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. A kinsman/kinswoman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc.

The whole catholic cult is sickening. They pervert anything they can get their hands or lips on.
Like pope Frankenstein below, what a looser.

 

[Illuminator]

The whole catholic cult is sickening. They pervert anything they can get their hands or lips on.
Like pope Frankenstein below, what a looser.

Sigma has demolished your man made traditions in detail, so you react with an emotional flaming zinger with a misleading photo with no context, irrelevant to the discussion.
You reject the teachings of all the early reformers, reject Greek dictionaries, deny the overwhelming evidence presented by Sigma and make airhead accusations of "catholic cult".

 

[BeyondET]

Sigma has demolished your man made traditions in detail, so you react with an emotional flaming zinger with a misleading photo with no context, irrelevant to the discussion.
You reject the teachings of all the early reformers, reject Greek dictionaries, deny the overwhelming evidence presented by Sigma and make airhead accusations of "catholic cult" in typical arrogant fundie cult fashion.

Sigma hasn't done anything but make himself look ignorant, there's no English translations that uses cousins instead of brothers or sisters. The hypothesis is only among the cult of catholics and its a completely false evil driven idea.

Your whole statement is illegitimate, along with the cat a holic cult that do the devils deeds.

 

[Sigma]

Sigma hasn't done anything but make himself look ignorant...

I'm a female not a male.

...there's no English translations that uses cousins instead of brothers or sisters. .

The original language of the NT is Koine Greek. The words used in the verses in question are "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), translated to "brother" and "sister" in English, and these words have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. A kinsman/kinswoman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc.

Bill Mounce's Greek Dictionary

Forms of the word
Dictionary: ἀδελφός, -οῦ, ὁ
Greek transliteration: adelphos
Simplified transliteration: adelphos

Numbers
Strong's number: 80
GK Number: 81

Statistics
Frequency in New Testament: 343
Morphology of Biblical Greek Tag: n-2a

Gloss:
brother, fellow countryman, neighbor (often inclusive in gender); by extension a fellow believer in the family of faith; in the plural brothers regularly refers to men and women

Definition:
a brother, near kinsman, or relative; one of the same nation or nature; one of equal rank and dignity; an associate, a member of the Christian community

Bill Mounce's Greek Dictionary

Forms of the word
Dictionary: ἀδελφή, -ῆς, ἡ
Greek transliteration: adelphē
Simplified transliteration: adelphe

Numbers
Strong's number: 79
GK Number: 80

Statistics
Frequency in New Testament: 26
Morphology of Biblical Greek Tag: n-1b

Gloss:
sister, fellow countrywoman; by extension a female believer, a sister in the family of faith

Definition:
a sister; near kinswoman, or female relative, a female member of the Christian community

 

[BeyondET]

I'm a female not a male.



The original language of the NT is Koine Greek. The words used in the verses in question are "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), translated to "brother" and "sister" in English, and these words have multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. A kinsman/kinswoman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc.

So your a dude chick, o well. I didn't go looking for your gender identity so deal with the fact that people aren't going around looking up people's gender.

And you haven't provided any English Bible translations that support your hypothesis

 

[Sigma]

So your a dude chick, o well. I didn't go looking for your gender identity...

A dude chick? No, again, I'm a female. So, rather than check to see if my gender is shown, or even ask, you chose just to be lazy and assume I'm a male. Got it.

And you haven't provided any English Bible translations that support your hypothesis

The original language of the NT is Koine Greek, and the words used in the verses in question use "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), and those words multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. A kinsman/kinswoman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc.

The English translations of those Koine Greek words isn't "siblings" or "cousins" or anything else except "brother" and "sister", and the definitions of the words they are translated from still apply, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. A kinsman/kinswoman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc.

Do you think the Koine Greek words have their definitions and the English translation of those Koine Greek words have their own??

 

[BeyondET]

A dude chick? No, again, I'm a female. So, rather than check to see if my gender is shown, or even ask, you chose just to be lazy and assume I'm a male. Got it.



The original language of the NT is Koine Greek, and the words used in the verses in question use "ἀδελφός" (sing. adelphos; pl. ἀδελφοὶ adelphoi) and "αδελφαι" (sing. adelphē; pl. αδελφαι adelphai), and those words multiple definitions, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. A kinsman/kinswoman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc.

The English translations of those Koine Greek words isn't "siblings" or "cousins" or anything else except "brother" and "sister", and the definitions of the words they are translated from still apply, e.g., "fellow-countryman", "disciple/follower", "one of the same faith", and "a near kinsman, or relative", etc. A kinsman/kinswoman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc.

Do you think the Koine Greek words have their definitions and the English translation of those Koine Greek words have their own??

Your avatar and the heading when you post doesn't have anything about your gender. It's not lazy I'm not going to the hassle of looking up everybody's profile who post to see what gender they are that's ridiculous.

You need to be not so offended by such a small thing, don't sweat the small stuff good grief.

Post a English Bible translation of the Greek Koine instead of dictionary quotes.

As you said in multiple post it could be considered isn't proof.

Your just choosing what could be and not what it is, they were His brothers and sisters.

A kinsman/kinswoman/relative can be a sibling, cousin, nephew, niece, uncle, or aunt, etc.

When the word cousin in the Bible is used it refers to a cousin,