John 3 Jesus discussion with Nicodemus

[face2face]

That whole Nic-at-night conversation has a weird non-sequitur vibe to it.

Did Jesus ever really answer Nicodemus's question regarding being born again/from above, "How can these things come to be?"

Nice Lambo

How many ways can you say "How can these things be?" - you're probibly trying that in your mind as you read this! LOL

No rejoinder this time like in verse 4!

I think that question is Nic showing he was "impressed" but genuinely bewildered.

F2F

 

[Lambano]

How many ways can you say "How can these things be?" - you're probibly trying that in your mind as you read this! LOL

No, I think "come to be" is the correct translation of γενέσθαι, though the only translation I've seen that picks up on this was in Barclay's commentary on John. Nic is saying, "Okay, you say that a man needs to be 'born from above' and "born of the Spirit', whatever that means, to see the Kingdom of God. How does that happen? What do I have to do to make that happen? How will I know that it happened?"

Of course, that's my heart reading its own questions into the text.

 

[face2face]

No, I think "come to be" is the correct translation of γενέσθαι, though the only translation I've seen that picks up on this was in Barclay's commentary on John. Nic is saying, "Okay, you say that a man needs to be 'born from above' and "born of the Spirit', whatever that means, to see the Kingdom of God. How does that happen? What do I have to do to make that happen? How will I know that it happened?"

Of course, that's my heart reading its own questions into the text.

I would be happy with that translation also.
F2F

 

[amigo de christo]

Being "born" of the Spirit is a process.

If a Christian believes in instantaneous transformation (being placed in a bubble) in the Spirit they haven’t a clue about the "born again" process...yes water covers you and provides the spiritual metaphor of a "new live" in Christ, but being born of the Spirit is much harder - life long!!

Paul speaks a lot about this in his Epistles, here when he writes "But I, brothers (& Sisters), could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 1 Cor 3:1

All these are Baptised in Christ, but are juveniles - those who have not had their minds exercised in the Spirit. These type of believers struggle to discern between good and evil and need guidence in the Spirit.

My example of Jack who only reads the Bible literally is an example of this - somehow he was led to believe that is how you discern the Spirit, however that is a slavish mindset - Nepios is the word Paul uses to show immaturity in mind.

1. an infant, little child
2. a minor, not of age
3. metaph. childish, untaught, unskilled

What is extremely confronting about this is when a person believes they are mature in Christ and hold strong convictions only to have their knowledge tested and found to be "nepios", and further more, like Jack they want to remain in a state of "nepios" which is a life threatening condition indeed.

The Word of God requires very careful handling and if you don't possess the skills to handle it, seek them, ask, seek and find and they will be given to you.

F2F

Being born of the Spirit is a process all right . GOD DOES IT . Being born again is not the work of man
but of GOD . All who have been born again BELIEVE IN JESUS THE GLORIOUS CHRIST .
they will follow no other religion peroid . They know full well budda is false , atheism is false
muhammed is false and any other religoin be false . Lambs are and have been born again
IN SPIRIT and IN TRUTH . THEY KNOW and hear the voice of the great shepard
and an inclusivians voice they will not heed . For inclusivians point to man and not GOD .
They believe other religoins are of GOD . A LIE . SPIRIT and TRUTH . THEY FOLLOW JESUS CHRIST and no other name
will they claim . POINT TO JESUS CHRIST till the last breath ebbs out those lungs . Offer up the only HOPE and only SALVATION
only way TO GOD , THAT WOULD BE JESUS CHRIST ONLY . Never let an inclusivian decieve us otherwise .
POINT TO CHRIST and to HE ALONE .

 

[Hepzibah]

It is happening on this board whenever anyone speaks of sinlessness the response is (incredulously and often hatefully ) "how can that be?".

Yet is is the same answer that Jesus gave to the covert Christian Jewish leader, to all of man's problems.

 

[face2face]

Being born of the Spirit is a process all right . GOD DOES IT . Being born again is not the work of man
but of GOD .

True, though it requires their involvement, no?

A free will surrendered must be a conscious decision otherwise you would believe God forces whom he wills into his kingdom and rejects all others.

I'll give you an example:

“to set your minds on things that are above” (Col. 3:2) means expressing the priorities of God's kingdom precisely in the midst of everyday earthly activities.

Are you suggesting God controls your priorites? God controls your mind? Would you say God forces you to set your mind on things above?

Now you are right that salvation is God's work...but our response is still required to allow Him to grow us. If you fail to acknowledge this you could be stating a false message.

F2F

 

[amigo de christo]

True, though it requires their involvement, no?

A free will surrendered must be a conscious decision otherwise you would believe God forces whom he wills into his kingdom and rejects all others.

I'll give you an example:

“to set your minds on things that are above” (Col. 3:2) means expressing the priorities of God's kingdom precisely in the midst of everyday earthly activities.

Are you suggesting God controls your priorites? God controls your mind? Would you say God forces you to set your mind on things above?

Now you are right that salvation is God's work...but our response is still required to allow Him to grow us. If you fail to acknowledge this you could be stating a false message.

F2F

Here lets sum it up real easy . CHOOSE YE THIS DAY WHOM YE SHALL SERVE . As for the lambs ITS JESUS CHRIST .
DIE DAILY , HEED the SPIRIT and not the flesh . Bring them thoughts captive to the obediance of Christ .
FOR IT IS HE who worketh in you that which is well pleasing unto GOD . THUS LET US HEED THE SPIRIT
and not the flesh . Yes we must continually remind all WITH ALL THEM REMINDERS my friend .
For every word is TRUTH in the holy scriptures . THEY are needful to be said , they are needful to be heeded .
FOR EVERY WORD OF GOD worketh GOOD unto the hearer and the doer .
IF one DENIES HIM , THEY GONNA BE DENIED .
now i leave us with this reminder given by JESUS as HE wept over jerusalem .
JERUSALEM , JERUSALEM , thou that stonest the prophets
How often I WOULD have gathered you , only YOU , YOU , YOU , would NOT . YEAH .

 

[ScottA]

Thank you for your response

concerning regeneration, Our spirit is dead. It must be regenerated.

Pauls calls it the washing and regeneration of the Holy Spirit.

If you look in the greek the word literally means to be reborn, born again, new birth, resurrection from the dead. Using Jesus words here, one must be born again, it makes perfect sense to use the word regeneration

in my view. This is what happens .

I see where and how one would think that, but the "new birth" refers rather to regeneration "in Him", not of our old flesh or new flesh, or even anything of us, but of Him. This must all be reconciled with the many things that refer to our life "in Him", even the saying that "it is no longer we who live, but Christ who lives in us."

Jesus also used the term "regeneration" in Matthew 19:28 where He explains our Oneness with Him in God even on the throne, just as they are also One, where not contradicting Himself He breaks it down as if there are even twelve thrones, when He also has said we shall be One as He and the Father are One, we in Christ in God.

Meanwhile, we need not trouble ourselves with the semantics regarding the language used to describe the many becoming One. Just as we came out from one man Adam by sin as if unfolding to become many, we too come again to be One as if refolded into Him who saved us.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Being "born" of the Spirit is a process.

If a Christian believes in instantaneous transformation (being placed in a bubble) in the Spirit they haven’t a clue about the "born again" process...yes water covers you and provides the spiritual metaphor of a "new live" in Christ, but being born of the Spirit is much harder - life long!!

Paul speaks a lot about this in his Epistles, here when he writes "But I, brothers (& Sisters), could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 1 Cor 3:1

All these are Baptised in Christ, but are juveniles - those who have not had their minds exercised in the Spirit. These type of believers struggle to discern between good and evil and need guidence in the Spirit.

My example of Jack who only reads the Bible literally is an example of this - somehow he was led to believe that is how you discern the Spirit, however that is a slavish mindset - Nepios is the word Paul uses to show immaturity in mind.

1. an infant, little child
2. a minor, not of age
3. metaph. childish, untaught, unskilled

What is extremely confronting about this is when a person believes they are mature in Christ and hold strong convictions only to have their knowledge tested and found to be "nepios", and further more, like Jack they want to remain in a state of "nepios" which is a life threatening condition indeed.

The Word of God requires very careful handling and if you don't possess the skills to handle it, seek them, ask, seek and find and they will be given to you.

F2F

have you read John 3? Because it seems you skipped over a lot of stuff..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

It is happening on this board whenever anyone speaks of sinlessness the response is (incredulously and often hatefully ) "how can that be?".

Yet is is the same answer that Jesus gave to the covert Christian Jewish leader, to all of man's problems.

Where do you see this? Just asking

 

[face2face]

Here lets sum it up real easy . CHOOSE YE THIS DAY WHOM YE SHALL SERVE . As for the lambs ITS JESUS CHRIST .
DIE DAILY , HEED the SPIRIT and not the flesh . Bring them thoughts captive to the obediance of Christ .
FOR IT IS HE who worketh in you that which is well pleasing unto GOD . THUS LET US HEED THE SPIRIT
and not the flesh . Yes we must continually remind all WITH ALL THEM REMINDERS my friend .
For every word is TRUTH in the holy scriptures . THEY are needful to be said , they are needful to be heeded .
FOR EVERY WORD OF GOD worketh GOOD unto the hearer and the doer .
IF one DENIES HIM , THEY GONNA BE DENIED .
now i leave us with this reminder given by JESUS as HE wept over jerusalem .
JERUSALEM , JERUSALEM , thou that stonest the prophets
How often I WOULD have gathered you , only YOU , YOU , YOU , would NOT . YEAH .

Yep, do all people respond the in the same?

 

[amigo de christo]

Yep, do all people respond the in the same?

NO . Many deny HIM . THOUGH HE CALLED THEY DID NOT ANSWER
THE CONDEMNATION OF MAN IS CLEARLY SEEN .
THE ONLY CONDEMNATION ONE HAS IS THEY WONT , THEY WONT COME TO THE LIGHT
JESUS said it . THEY WONT . the fault is on man , NOT GOD .

 

[face2face]

have you read John 3? Because it seems you skipped over a lot of stuff..

It wasn't a verse by verse exposition Eternal - Its Sat morning over here, the sun is out and I'm baking sausage rolls - maybe you can fill the gaps?

 

[face2face]

NO . Many deny HIM . THOUGH HE CALLED THEY DID NOT ANSWER
THE CONDEMNATION OF MAN IS CLEARLY SEEN .
THE ONLY CONDEMNATION ONE HAS IS THEY WONT , THEY WONT COME TO THE LIGHT
JESUS said it . THEY WONT . the fault is on man , NOT GOD .

Right, so explain how we use "our" free will?

 

[amigo de christo]

It wasn't a verse by verse exposition Eternal - Its Sat morning over here, the sun is out and I'm baking sausage rolls - maybe you can fill the gaps?

I just noticed you are way over there in australia . BEWARE SIE DIGITAL SYSTEM , it cometh of the beast
Its coming in all over the world . NO BUY NO SELL lest one conforms to sie agenda .
KEEP that in mind . THIS SYSTEM is spoken of , many many years ago .
And he causes all to recieve a mark ....................
IF one has not the mark , NO BUY NO SELL . THE DIGITAL SYSTEM in league with the all inclusive false love
has prepared the world unto the beast .

 

[amigo de christo]

Right, so explain how we use "our" free will?

When it comes to Grace , GOD appears to us , not in sight but within the heart
HE draws us to CHRIST . As for free will , I dont heed all that stuff . The message is simple .
IF anyone wants to be saved THEN BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST and CONTINUE IN HIM to the end .
HOLD FIRM the gospel . HEED THE HOLY SPIRIT . IT WILL UNCTION US , IT SPEAKS TO US .
WE must OBEY THE SPIRIT . die daily .

 

[amigo de christo]

Calvin and a whole mess of others have made things way too complicated .
My advice is we get in the bible for ourselves .
See the simplicity of it all . GOD SENT THE SON so that all who do believe would be saved .
THAT SIMPLE .
Make sure the JESUS you know and follow IS the SAME ONE IN the bible or , OR its another jesus created of men andtheir doctrines.
Simply BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST and GET in those bibles and learn HIM well .

 

[face2face]

As for free will , I dont heed all that stuff .

The important part you dont need?

The Lord GOD has given me the tongue of those who are taught, that I may know how to sustain with a word him who is weary. Morning by morning he awakens; he awakens my ear to hear as those who are taught.

Jesus understood it's importance.

"not My will but Thine be done!"

You have the Thine part but fail to express the "not my" will - and yes Jesus had a carnal will in him!

F2F

 

[amigo de christo]

The important part you dont need?

The Lord GOD has given me the tongue of those who are taught, that I may know how to sustain with a word him who is weary. Morning by morning he awakens; he awakens my ear to hear as those who are taught.

Jesus understood it's importance.

"not My will but Thine be done!"

You have the Thine part but fail to express the "not my" will - and yes Jesus had a carnal will in him!

F2F

Me already knows this my friend. I am just wore out with all this pre destined , free will versus no free will stuff .
I am gonna keep it real simple . YOU wanna be saved THEN BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST
let us be in the bible so we can learn the truth . Too many folks heed calvin or rome or someone
always debating about stuff they dont even Fully understand YET NEVER TRYING TO POINT anyone to CHRIST
That my friend is the road i have chosen to take . THIS LAMB gonna focus all my engery and time
on POINTING FOLKS to CHRIST and reminding us of biblical teachings .
NOT docrtrines of men which all they do is fight and strive over it all day long . YET as i said earlier
They never TRY and win one soul to CHRIST . This dog wont enter that fight .
MY fight is TO CONTEND FOR THE TRUE FAITH , Teaching the things in scriptures and NOT A WORD
from the doctrines of denoninations . ITS all a waste of time and engery to focus on them denominational teachings .
Calvin was WRONGon things , BIG TIME WRONG TOO . SO was ROME and so are many other denominations .
TIME WE STICK TO THAT Which we ought to have STUCK TOO . ORIGINAL BIBLCAL DOCTRINE
pointing to CHRIST , correcting error , and etc .

 

[amigo de christo]

Right, so explain how we use "our" free will?

Here is a short but true way to explain HOW we use our free will .
NEVERTHELESS not my WILL but THINE BE DONE . SURRENDER TO GOD .
Now raise those hands , ITS LORD PRAISING TIME IN THE BUILDING